Halo 5 Opening Cinematic
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Xzilerate1690
Banned
And the Chief isn't? If all you've done is played the games and haven't read any of the novels (which still doesn't give him much of a personality, but they certainly do it better than the games) then Chief is practically just a walking machine with occasional awful one liners. Yet people love him. Even people who haven't picked up a single novel adore him.
And this hasn't just been the case with Chief. Every playable protagonist thus far has been like that. Noble Six, Rookie, etc. The latter being the absolute worst case considering he never uttered a word. Yet once again people love those characters.
Like I said, people love to hate what's new. People despised the Arbiter when he was first revealed to be a playable character in Halo 2 as well because it took time away from the Chief. That's how it's been and that's how it'll continue to be.
It sucks, but it is what it is.
And this hasn't just been the case with Chief. Every playable protagonist thus far has been like that. Noble Six, Rookie, etc. The latter being the absolute worst case considering he never uttered a word. Yet once again people love those characters.
Like I said, people love to hate what's new. People despised the Arbiter when he was first revealed to be a playable character in Halo 2 as well because it took time away from the Chief. That's how it's been and that's how it'll continue to be.
It sucks, but it is what it is.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
Xzilerate1690
Banned
You see I don't see how anyone can even say that when we've barely seen anything of him. Josh Holmes has said that Locke and Chief are entirely different characters in terms of personality.
Hell, Locke in Nightfall probably talked more than the Chief did in the first 3 games combined (don't quote me on that lol).
Hell, Locke in Nightfall probably talked more than the Chief did in the first 3 games combined (don't quote me on that lol).
Good thing he is going to get killed off in a later chapter of the game, making a heroic effort to save MC, but dying in the process. Tanaka takes over command for the remaining missions with a resurrected Hardlight Cortana rounding out the team. On blue side Fred has to take a knee after losing a knee (These grenades need a longer fuse! Well don't bounce them off walls back into your face) and John pulls in Palmer, who had been aching to get back into action (shooting an old lady scientist in the arm just didn't scratch that itch) to fill out that squad where we finally learn that E.G.G.H.E.A.D.S. is actually the official acronym for the science teams.
Honestly though, Locke could do with a little humor, hopefully we get some. While MC is mostly quiet and often stoic he can still quip when needed.
I just don't see any fathomable reason why brutes would've been at requiem, unless 343i shoehorned them in...
Politically, no one is dealing with them...
But he's still the same style of soldier who follows orders as Chief that seems to be shown in every trailer cept the Locke side in that CGI trailer where he said conquering hero.
Personality isn't about amount of words spoken, Buck's line in this cinematic gives him lots of personality than just saying mission objectives wouldn't give off.
LegalEagleMike
Member
I think a lot of people would be happier if they played as Buck lol.
Xzilerate1690
Banned
So? Noble Six was the same way yet people love him. All Spartan II's are like that yet people love them. Most Spartan III's were like that yet people loved them. Same style of soldier =/= same personality. You know what's funny though? The IV's are trashed BECAUSE they have a personality. BECAUSE they don't blindly follow every order given to them. People love the II's and III's because they're professional. Because they follow orders without questioning. Because they're the silent badasses. Now it's outcries about how Locke is lacking in personality and is just like the II's so many people love lol. I mean you can't have one criteria for one band of characters and another for others. Well I mean you could, but it makes people look like hypocrites then.
And I never said personality was just about words. Not that it even matters as nothing the Chief says in the games gives him anything even remotely close to a personality. His dialogue usually consists of cheesy one-liners. It wasn't until 343 took over that the Chief finally started to receive some actual personality.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
You know, I was interested when 'forerunner in origin' came up, and then I'm watching some extending TMNT (the movie) Michael Bay money-shot that manages to make the elites look like a joke, randomly has an ODST as a Spartan (apparently? When and how? Oh wait I don't care) and is basically just that without being subtle or giving any sense of being in danger.
I switched to "Rich Evans watches trailers" mode about 2 minutes in. I just don't care anymore. And I cannot see myself caring about this at all.
I switched to "Rich Evans watches trailers" mode about 2 minutes in. I just don't care anymore. And I cannot see myself caring about this at all.
Twilight Gap
Member
Noble Six and the Rookie weren't "characters" and those were panned too for being "silent protagonists"
Come on now. Nobody is complaining about Locke's team members. The reason people dislike Locke is because he's a piece of drywood.
You could argue that Chief and Locke are both "stoic, follow orders" characters (which would then make Locke redundant), but that apparently isn't the case according to what they've said. It just appears that way through the media they've released thus far, hence the reactions.
Come on now. Nobody is complaining about Locke's team members. The reason people dislike Locke is because he's a piece of drywood.
You could argue that Chief and Locke are both "stoic, follow orders" characters (which would then make Locke redundant), but that apparently isn't the case according to what they've said. It just appears that way through the media they've released thus far, hence the reactions.
Xzilerate1690
Banned
And like I said, the Chief isn't? I don't see people running around voicing their dislike for him despite the fact that he's a walking machine with awful one-liners.
And plenty of people are complaining about his team members. Every time I read a post, be it here or elsewhere, I see things like "I don't care for Osiris (except Buck)" I don't want to play as anyone from Osiris (except Buck)" "I hope the Chief kicks their asses (except Buck)" "I hope they all die (except Buck)"
Buck is the only exception lol. Why? Because he's the familiar face on that team. Everyone else is new. People don't like what's new, especially when it opposes what they're familiar with and Osiris opposes what a lot of fans are familiar with (i.e. Chief and Blue Team)
Oh, and as for Noble Six and Rookie. You'd be surprised at how many Halo fans love both characters despite the fact that they're essentially shells filled by the player.
Nobel 6 and Rookie are avatars for the player, not really characters. It's not the best avatar but you can see why people like them.
Chief is liked since he was that stoic guy who saved the universe, who you played through 4 games with. Locke is that stotic guy who wants to kill Chief. This is what the trailers make out for him, if it turns out differently that will be nice.
Chief is liked since he was that stoic guy who saved the universe, who you played through 4 games with. Locke is that stotic guy who wants to kill Chief. This is what the trailers make out for him, if it turns out differently that will be nice.
Twilight Gap
Member
Buck isn't immune to criticism, but he is familiar and has relatable character motivation.
Locke is receiving the most apprehension because he is chasing after the hero and nobody understands why. He is indeed a wildcard, which is another way of saying he's a blank canvas. And that's a problem because rather than generate interest, it creates a black hole of questions, expectations and uncertainty. Therefore, whenever Locke is on screen, he saps the energy out of the shot. It has less to do with him being "new" and more to do with him being unreadable.
I'm not sure what these "awful one-liners" you keep referencing are. Chief didn't say anything unseemly until Halo 4 when 343 made him a chatterbox, e.g. "These Covenant are more fanatical than the ones we fought before" -- that line was terrible.
Chief has a distinct voice, and that means he should only speak when it's important and straight to the point. Otherwise, that voice loses meaning (like it did with the multiplayer announcer). That's not to say Bungie did a perfect job, but it meant everything he said had weight.
Noble Team were pretty good, Rookie was nothing, don't think anyone thought of the Rookie other than the name being cool.
Maybe Locke will loosen up or show more when the story gets going or he will be by the book and Buck etc. are light side characters. There was definitely a sense of this guy looks cool before acting or story came into it.
You can argue Chief is dull and much like Locke in his delivery but the difference is Chief is a man of few words at the right time, not too much jargon to set the scene which could be applied to the other characters and perhaps toned down and more organic chat after being a team rather than overly military every second. Chief, Cortana, Marines always balanced that well. Be more playful.
Maybe Locke will loosen up or show more when the story gets going or he will be by the book and Buck etc. are light side characters. There was definitely a sense of this guy looks cool before acting or story came into it.
You can argue Chief is dull and much like Locke in his delivery but the difference is Chief is a man of few words at the right time, not too much jargon to set the scene which could be applied to the other characters and perhaps toned down and more organic chat after being a team rather than overly military every second. Chief, Cortana, Marines always balanced that well. Be more playful.
Xzilerate1690
Banned
I never said Buck was immune to criticism. Just that he's the one who doesn't get it nearly as much as his 3 teammates and that's due to the fact that he's the familiar face on the team while the other 3 are new.
I'm not sure why you keep referencing just Locke. It's Osiris as a whole. Just because you don't have a problem with the other members of Osiris doesn't mean the general perception is that they're not disliked. Osiris as a team is hunting the Chief, not just Locke. The mission was not specifically assigned to Locke, but Osiris as a team hence the amount of heat they get. And we know why they're going after them. Locke specifically mentions why in the H2A bookend cutscenes. It's because he's gone AWOL and the UNSC wants him back. There could certainly be more to it, but that's the general reason as to why Osiris has been tasked with going after Chief and Blue Team.
I've no interest in listing them all. Go back and play CE, 2, and 3.
And that makes him a walking machine. No personality whatsoever, which is what so many people according to you and others belittle Locke and Osiris for
The perception is abundantly clear. Everyone on Osiris but Buck gets heat and it's not because the other 3 lack in personality. It's because they're new and they oppose what's familiar.
If it was about personality then the II's would be hated and the IV's would be loved because the discrepancy between the two in terms of personality is like night and day.
Just because it's intentional doesn't make the character any better or worse off. Why is it easier to like a character who was intentionally created with no personality as opposed to one who was created with the intent of having a personality, but ended up lacking one?
At the end of the day they both have nonexistent personalities regardless of intent or not.
Xzilerate1690
Banned
Edit: Sorry for the double post
formasymphonic
Member
He doesn't want to kill Chief, the live action trailers have hammed it up for marketing reasons, but its been stated in a few places that Locke has no animosity towards Chief.
Edit: Quotes/Video
Gameinformer said:
Various 343 Staff - "A Hero Reborn" Vidoc 06:06-06:23 said:
Halo 2 Anniversary Epilogue said:
He's not a guy who's main goal is to put a bullet in MC.
Twilight Gap
Member
I remember every line Chief said in those games and there's only a couple lines I'd say were "awful" from the first one. You make it sound like everything he said was awful, or that one-liners are inherently awful, and I couldn't disagree more.
I don't have a problem with Osiris because they're new or because they're hunting the Chief. I have a problem with Locke because he looks like he's trying to be Chief 2.0.
Chief on his own wasn't much of a character in the games, but he still had a commanding presence (which the books apparently support by saying he's a "natural leader") and says what he needs to. Any personality beyond that came through in the interactions with Johnson and Cortana. I haven't seen Locke gain much support from Osiris to that end, so all I can surmise about him currently is that he is some super serious ONI guy who follows orders. Ergo, he's a stick in the mud.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Aight, few things to clear up (and I'm sorry if somebody already went over this): the "Storm" refers to the vanguard forces of Jul M'Dama's Covenant. As to their origins and composition:
The Great Schism dissolved the Covenant of the first 3 games, but it was a complicated event; the Elites, comprising the backbone of the Covenant's forces, rebelled for a number of reasons. Some, like Arby and Halfjaw, realized that the whole religion was built on a lie that could end up killing the galaxy, and moved because of that. Others operated more on pride and fear at how the Prophets were phasing out the Elites in favor of the Brutes. After the Prophets were defeated, these two groups didn't really have any particular reason to like each other, especially as without Tartarus and the Prophets the Brutes immediately fell to infighting (which is why they're not with the Covenant; the core of it hates the Brutes with a fiery passion, and the Brutes are too busy killing each other to worry about religion). Futhermore, the old Covenant had an extremely decentralized command structure. So when things fell apart, they really fell apart. Dozens of splinter factions. Of these, the two biggest/ most story relevant are the Swords of Sanghelios (Arby & Co.) and Jul M'Dama's Covenant.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
The Chief is more than just some walking machine and books like Fall of Reach and First Strike are strong evidence of that. We learn things about the Chief as a character in First Strike that, to me, really drives home the reality that 343i is doing exactly the right thing with the Master Chief's character. People try to make Master Chief come off to appear like some duke nukem crappy one liner machine, but he has never been anything of the sort. He has always been a character that was handled very carefully. He's not exactly a chatterbox, but there's an interesting character that emerges whenever it receives some exploration.
Aren't the Brutes back to one planet too? That is completely war torn.
Xzilerate1690
Banned
Most of which were. If you disagree then that's on you. Most of his one-liners are extremely cringe-inducing, especially the ones in CE.
YOU don't have a problem with them because they're new. I never pointed to you specifically. I said the general perception. I don't have a problem with Locke or the rest of Osiris at all (I actually enjoy them quite a bit), but that doesn't change the fact that most people dislike them because they're new and oppose characters that longtime Halo fans have grown up with. Buck is the exception to this because he's a familiar face. Fans have played as him, got to know him, etc. As I've said in numerous posts, if the dislike came from personality then the II's wouldn't be as revered as they are and the IV's would be put on a pedestal because there's a world of difference between the two Spartan programs in terms of personality.
So essentially exactly like Chief. I'm sorry, but there's very little differences in what Locke is like currently and what Chief was like in CE, 2, and 3. Both are men of few words. Both follow orders without question. Both are stoic.
Twilight Gap
Member
Well there's no point in going around in circles disagreeing so I'll leave it at that. I can't say I care much for what the rest of the Halo fanbase thinks anyway. Since the original game, players have good at disliking new things for any number of reasons.
Xzilerate1690
Banned
Guess we're in agreement there. I mean people are going to like and dislike what they want regardless of reasons. I was just trying to explain to the person who posted they didn't understand the Locke/Osiris hate, the likely reason for it.
Twilight Gap
Member
Fair enough. It's entirely possible i'll come to like Locke by the end of the Campaign, if for no other reason than an arbitrary one. After all, I didn't have any interest in Osiris until I saw Vale spinning around in this trailer. Maybe Locke will do something cool and get the hype wheels rolling. If all Chief did was say a few one liners and jump out of a pelican, I probably wouldn't have liked him either. But those one liners in context with his incredible feats and the interactions with characters far more personable than him are what made the original cast as beloved as it was.
What I want to know is why they cast the sexy Christina Chong in Nightfall, gave her the likeable character of Talitha Macer, only to not do anything with her in halo 5? Do you know how much better it would have been if instead of Vale or Tanaka, we had both Locke and Macer come from ONI to become Spartans?
I'm not too worried about Locke. Nightfall went far in making him appear personable and likeable much like Lasky in Forward Unto Dawn. We instantly have a connection with him that goes beyond what we ever had with Palmer. Sure we may not like that he's hunting Chief, but I think his role as a deuteragonist with Chief will make him a fan favorite by the end and going forward.
I'm not too worried about Locke. Nightfall went far in making him appear personable and likeable much like Lasky in Forward Unto Dawn. We instantly have a connection with him that goes beyond what we ever had with Palmer. Sure we may not like that he's hunting Chief, but I think his role as a deuteragonist with Chief will make him a fan favorite by the end and going forward.
Xzilerate1690
Banned
Yea that disappointed me quite a bit. I really thought Macer was the red Spartan when the cover art was released and it would've pleased me quite a bit as she was one of my favorite characters from Nightfall along with Locke and Randall.
I get why 343 probably didn't want to go that route. Macer wasn't even a part of the UNSC at that time and her best skill was being a pilot. Not exactly Spartan material.
But neither was Vale at first. I won't go into detail due to Hunters in the Dark spoilers, but if someone like Vale can become such a capable soldier in such a short amount of time then I don't see why 343 couldn't do something similar with Macer.
Twilight Gap
Member
I still haven't finished Nightfall. I heard it was pants.
It's on Youtube now though I think so maybe I'll give it a watch.
It's on Youtube now though I think so maybe I'll give it a watch.
Honestly, the biggest issue with it was that it was episodic, completely fucked with the pacing.
Other than that it was fairly meh really, not bad but not exactly great either. I much preferred Forward Unto Dawn.
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
My complain..
nothing fucking happened in Nightfall. Like seriously. Its like it did not happened. We didn't find anything interesting about lock's character, or the Halo ring. It was just 1hr of NOTHING.
But when you're the creators, you can write and handwave any issues away. 'Macer took great care at being respected within ONI, she became ruthless and calculating, her skills proved she would be formidable if given the right training and so it was only natural when Locke was approached for the Spartan-IV program, the courtesy was extended to Macer as well' blah blah.
I'm just saying, by the end of Nightfall I only cared about Randall, Macer and Locke, and just thought Macer would have been used more, especially when you're already creating new characters, use one that there is a slight rapport with. But that's whatever. She still exists as a character and can pop up again anytime.
It's not as good as Forward Unto Dawn because there are more characters to follow. The episodic nature of the movie also meant you barely got any story before it ended and then had to wait a week and they'd give a flashback showing where you were. It's more enjoyable watching it as one film from start to finish. The story itself is also very predictable, you'll pretty much know the end by about 1/3rd in. Still worth watching as a Halo fan, and to at least see the origins of Locke and what makes Spartans so much better than others, especially Spartan-II's.
Darryl M R
Member
Team Locke. Simple. Can't wait buying new good headphones just so I can play MP on my X1 and talk.
Xzilerate1690
Banned
That was pretty much the biggest issue. They traversed a ring for 5 episodes while simultaneously running from ancient lekgolo.
It was dreadfully boring. I still liked Locke, Macer, and Randall though.
It's true that they could handwave what they want, but how realistic would it look for Macer to go from not even being a cadet in the UNSC and her best skill pertaining to piloting an aircraft to a lethal covenant slaughtering Spartan in the span of 2 years (Nightfall takes place in 2556 while Halo 5 takes place in 2558)?
formasymphonic
Member
As others have said, if you can, watch the single cut of it rather than the episodic version. It doesn't work broken up into portions tbh
soulassssns
Banned
Yes and it is explained in the novel Halo New Blood.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
Nightfall was just a very drawn-out way of saying "Locke isn't a bad guy".
Which if anyone loved ODST should read. It's my favorite book since 343i's universe takeover.
BleedOrange
Banned
This man knows his shit
BleedOrange
Banned
I feel like you don't like any games then.
Poodlestrike
Banned
They're extremely reduced, but I'm not 100% sure of the extent. Probably still got more than one planet, but war torn is sort of a given.
Yeah, I have to reread those early escalation chapters to remember.
One correction, 'Mdama's faction isn't actually ever referred to as 'storm', people thought it was called that cause their standard ranks are referred to as Storm Minors, and the Storm rifle.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
A leaked image from Blue Team's alternate cinematic...
