Karin announced for SFV

the last 3 reveals have looked really fun to play. still i'm kinda bummed that there won't be any surprise haggar reveal anytime soon. :( we pretty much already know who is left and it ain't him. kinda wild that there wont be a final fight character in this street fighter game.
 
Yeah- it's anecdote. I'd be willing to bet that if you showed random people from all over the world this picture

karin6wzkf.jpg


and asked what country she was from, nobody would get it right (if they didn't already randomly know who she was).
You say that with your already existing bias though. There's a world beyond you and your peers.
 
the idea that people from a certain country need to look a certain way--enough to be confirmable by "the majority of the human population" or "random people on the street" as hailing from a given country (nation states are a young concept for one, just as one example of how dumb this is) is just a hilariously fucked up can of worms


fuck reading all that. would the average homo sapien on the street read that before coming to a knee jerk national-racial assumption about a video game character! I think not!
 
crocodile already gave you something to think about and your only response was "but to me they don't look asian." i was a bit flip there but it just seems like you're not interested in actually understanding or examining why things are the way they are. it's not about justifying or saying it's right, but it's offputting that you're only looking at this from the perspective and of "the don't look asian to me and my gf" and that you're seemingly per-convinced there's intentional white washing going on from japanese creators in a japenese context making japanese characters is also off putting. I don't really know if I'm explaining it correctly, but basically you sound like a SCRUB

It's not about understanding why they are what they are, it's just looking at what they are.

this is really fucked up thinking. like if you were to actually think through the implications of what you're saying you would realize how fucking absurd this sounds. "the majority of human beings on earth" is just a stupid thing to say in practically any context, let alone anything as tenuous as race. 'white' isn't really as clear cut as you think, nor is it something that most people agree on or understand or care to classify, and that understanding has always changed throughout history. once you get to more 'ambiguous' (ugh) races, the whole thing starts to fall apart even faster. I'm sure you'd make an ass out of yourself trying to guess the race of any number of people posting in this very thread.

if "ask random people on the street" is your argument or barometer for wrapping your head around shit then, like I said, you're not worth arguing with.

Yeah, race is super nebulous, but regardless, I don't think the case of SFV is really representative of the diverse world we actually live in.

You say that with your already existing bias though. There's a world beyond you and your peers.

Who would actually think she is Japanese though?
 
the only thing lighter skinned hispanics would be upset about is that it isn't actually true.

imagine being treated like a human instead of an immigrant who cleans toilets/cuts grass for a living

That's a pretty American POV to look at it from brah.


the idea that people from a certain country need to look a certain way--enough to be confirmable by "the majority of the human population" or "random people on the street" as hailing from a given country (nation states are a young concept for one, just as one example of how dumb this is) is just a hilariously fucked up can of worms



fuck reading all that. would the average homo sapien on the street read that before coming to a knee jerk national-racial assumption about a video game character! I think not!

I know this wasn't aimed at me, and there's truth to the notion that usually the people who think Japanese anime characters are white are white Westerners (maybe you could call this another form of appropriation, or in this sense trying to make the character more ethnically relate-able). It's a serious problem not just in the Western (American mostly) anime community, but in the comic and video game scenes as well (not Asian related, but the posts in that Clemente thread here were just rancid and disgusting. It's like most of the people saying she couldn't be black never stepped out of their homes to do anything in life, they were crazy).

But let's not beat around the bush; to a typical American or non-Japanese person (and hell, even to many Japanese people. Video games aren't completely synonymous with Japanese culture even though that's a popular stereotype), at first glance, they'll perceive Karin is white, possibly British, from a royal British family. It's not just the hair; it's the clothes, the mannerisms, all the little things add up to that. The basis for that assumption is obviously rooted back centuries, but you guys are pretending that the vast majority of a given sample group of random people, who know nothing about Street Fighter, aren't going to assume she's white or at the very least European or British, and you're lying to yourselves.

Are those people wrong for assuming that? Yes. But it just goes to show how limited diverse representation of ethnic minorities in Western societies actually is, and it's a societal problem. The onus isn't on SFV to change that (in a way a character like Karin is a step forward, because it shows that you can be lavish and rich and royal and proper etc. without being ethnically European), true. But if those people are wrong for assuming a character like Karin is white simply because of her hair and dress, Capcom's equally "wrong" in stringing them into thinking she is, and you guys are equally as wrong for pretending it isn't an issue and that people are "complaining" over nothing.

FWIW though Zissou's equally wrong for looking at it in a limited POV.

Fuck it, everybody's wrong. We're all wrong together. Equality.
 
It's not about understanding why they are what they are, it's just looking at what they are.



Yeah, race is super nebulous, but regardless, I don't think the case of SFV is really representative of the diverse world we actually live in.



Who would actually think she is Japanese though?

but your way of looking at something comes with inherent, powerful biases. it's naive and scary that you think your gaze is some kind of objective racial measure, especially when you're fixated on (frankly harmful) populist referents like "people on the street."

is it SFV's job to represent the diversity of the world (according to your specific standards)? this is what I was talking about when I said the argument was huge. because this is one of those questions you arrive at following your logic. to what extent and by what measures should Capcom be trying to represent diversity? it's impossible to determine, and any given person may be satisfied or dissatisfied with different levels of representation. it's just absurd. I'm not saying they shouldn't be inclusive or anything like that, but you seem to think it's a lot more straightforward than it is in a way that betrays a very poor notion of race.

I'll ask some Japanese people tomorrow.

you must be a scientist or something, bro

try reading a couple of books and developing some thinking skills instead of strawpolling street dwelling homo sapiens
 
Her buttons look so great.

Cr.mk cancelable is a huge tool. I think I might have found my main unless Juri gets in the first round of characters.

My big issue with her is her hair. Her hair is her head not counting the obvious 3d braids slapped onto the flat hair texture that gives a bad sense of depth to the rest of her hair.

I do like the color, like it's obviously overbleached like it should be.
 
Obviously Italian.

Well yeah that would be common. I see you did your research because ringlet hair was common among aristocratic women in Rome in the Flavian Dynasty. That trope that Karin shares likely traces back to Shirley Temple who was fucking huge in the 30's and is a blond that has ringlets and a blue bow in her hair, so given that Karin's hair and attire hail from European nations and Shirley Temple (Shirley had a butler too in the movies) it's a bit silly think there wasn't any influence from Europe or America.
 
Karin is proof that street fighter is anime. We were anime all along brehs

I can confirm Street Fighter is at least 1000% more anime than games like Blazblue because that series only has 1 crappily animated anime. It is undefined in how much more anime SF is than Guilty Gear because you can't divide by 0.
 
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";179150038]Kuroda is just nuts period. He refuses to use Dudley's cRH because it's not a boxer-esque move.[/QUOTE]

I respect that
 
but your way of looking at something comes with inherent, powerful biases. it's naive and scary that you think your gaze is some kind of objective racial measure, especially when you're fixated on (frankly harmful) populist referents like "people on the street."

is it SFV's job to represent the diversity of the world (according to your specific standards)? this is what I was talking about when I said the argument was huge. because this is one of those questions you arrive at following your logic. to what extent and by what measures should Capcom be trying to represent diversity? it's impossible to determine, and any given person may be satisfied or dissatisfied with different levels of representation. it's just absurd. I'm not saying they shouldn't be inclusive or anything like that, but you seem to think it's a lot more straightforward than it is in a way that betrays a very poor notion of race.



you must be a scientist or something, bro

try reading a couple of books and developing some thinking skills instead of strawpolling street dwelling homo sapiens

No, it's not SFV's job to represent diversity. People make casual comments about the game being blond fighter V. Other fools say "no, actually VERY few of the characters are white!!" My comments are directed at those fools in the second group when I'm arguing said characters are for all intents and purposes, white.

As for the data thing, you accuse me of making points based on my feelings and say that I'm eurocentric... so isn't asking other people (especially Japanese people) and collecting some data the best and most neutral way to separate fact and fiction?
 
I dont understand why anyone is excited for Karin. Ive played a shit load of SFA3 and I hardly ever saw her used. When people do use her they get destroyed. Karin freakin' sucks.
 
Man, I just noticed the maid hitting Ishizaki with the tray she's holding in the Kanzuki Estate background like in Karin's Alpha 3 intro animation. And Mika's win quote vs. Karin does reference their rival battle! ("You may be my sponsor, but in the ring we're equal!")
 
The japanese dont really care about race or that shit. They design what they want and slam being japanese onto that character as they want. Why even bother to argue. There is no political correct here. It is just a freakin videogame character. Unless it is explicitly declare as a person from specific race or country. That kind of concept doesnt exist here. Look at all japanese anime and videogame.

And for what its worth. Western view on asian race is very wrong in so many level. Look at how they design asian character for example. Everyone look exactly the same!
 
I dont understand why anyone is excited for Karin. Ive played a shit load of SFA3 and I hardly ever saw her used. When people do use her they get destroyed. Karin freakin' sucks.

Her and R. Mika, I'm like really?. Anyways, Street Fighter V is a day one purchase for me regardless.
 
I dont understand why anyone is excited for Karin. Ive played a shit load of SFA3 and I hardly ever saw her used. When people do use her they get destroyed. Karin freakin' sucks.

good thing this isn't real life and adjusting some numbers can make someone go from shit tier to god tier and vice versa
 
I dont understand why anyone is excited for Karin. Ive played a shit load of SFA3 and I hardly ever saw her used. When people do use her they get destroyed. Karin freakin' sucks.

Sounds like you play shitty Karins.

I don't think there's any statement more foolish than, "I don't understand why people like thing."

good thing this isn't real life and adjusting some numbers can make someone go from shit tier to god tier and vice versa

Karin isn't even close to shit tier in A3.
 
I dont understand why anyone is excited for Karin. Ive played a shit load of SFA3 and I hardly ever saw her used. When people do use her they get destroyed. Karin freakin' sucks.

let's only include top tier characters and one that you personally saw played a lot, ok. there aren't any other meaningful considerations or possibilities when it comes to a roster anyways. pack it up.
 
I dont understand why anyone is excited for Karin. Ive played a shit load of SFA3 and I hardly ever saw her used. When people do use her they get destroyed. Karin freakin' sucks.

Why do people continue to make these types of terrible arguments. It is completely and utterly valueless information that she was bad in Alpha 3. This is an entirely different game with different rules and different properties and no one has any idea where any of the characters will end up in the tiers.

"Karin" doesn't suck. The Street Fighter Alpha 3 incarnation of her may have, but that has no bearing on this game whatsoever.
 
It's great to see Karin back! There was a time when she was the main character I wanted to learn in Alpha, though Rose and... oddly... Vega? took some time of mine. too. *I really loved Vega's Lvl 3 Super!

Her moveset refresh looks good, and kind of bold, too. The fact her Rekka's are locked behind V-skill stuff feels smart. As if it's a good way to hint to how strongly she emphasizes great defense being based on oppressive offense.

But yet, they gave all her old specials that still remain as much combo potential and variation as her old Rekka chains. Thus instead of losing move identity, she gained even more.

I really like how much of her feels similar to Julia in SFxT. I loved her in that game, so getting to have such in a proper Capcom mainline game is very welcome. Along with flashes of Ingrid for flavor.

In retrospect, Karin and Sakura really pull off the Ken and Ryu personality clash MUCH better than the originators. They're way more expressive and fully realized in their roles. I always loved how Karin's haughty attitude comes through in basically EVERY attack she does. Not just Specials, but even in her punches and kicks. Miles beyond the lack of differentiation usually shown between Ryu and Ken.

Makes me very glad Ken is now A Ryo Sakazaki Fan wish living up to his promise of flair and showmanship more than ever before.

And as far as her stage... Yeah, it's gorgeous, but I don't think it out-does her return. I can't believe the clouds in the background don't seem to move at all! It makes the moon and mountain look like a pretty painting, rather than actual environment. Love how the characters react. Is it a coincidence that Karin's stage reminds me of Ken's Birthday Yacht stage from Alpha (2?).

I'm very happy to see Capcom not being a slave to plain tradition, and instead realizing that their game last for YEARS after release, and that saving major character for refreshes is a great idea. IV is within arm's reach, if I need to experience many of the old standbys again. V being it's own product is a major part as to why I'm excited for it, after being pretty fed up with IV quite a few times over the years.
 
People say Karin is Japanese, but in my mind she is time-travelling Nellie Olsen from Little House on the Prairie. She was the one person in Walnut Grove rich enough to learn martial arts and also buy a time machine (or be cryogenically frozen in the basement of Olsen's Mercantile, I haven't worked that part out yet).
 
And for what its worth. Western view on asian race is very wrong in so many level. Look at how they design asian character for example. Everyone look exactly the same!

Man, you pointed out the struggle playing any Bioware or Bethesda game. You can't even make a decent asian person with mods or shit.

I remember when people were arguing on gaf that Ajay from Farcry 4 didn't look asian because it's like they think every asian is chinky eyed lol.
 
Probably just me but that one lady in the back of the new background looks a lot like B.Jenet (blonde hair and purple dress with similar shoes).
 
Well yeah that would be common. I see you did your research because ringlet hair was common among aristocratic women in Rome in the Flavian Dynasty. Given that Karin's hair and attire hail from European nations. That trope that Karin shares likely traces back to S hirley Temple who was fucking huge in the 30's so it's a bit silly think there wasn't any influence from Europe or America.
In the Italian-Japanese alliance of WW2, her grandparents became close like family with the Kanzukis through world travel. Sadly, the Kanzukis all died in the firebombings of Japan. Due to their close ties, everything was left to Karin's family, even though it was in shambles now. Since things weren't going so well for them in Europe, Karin's family decided to flee with their fortunes and rebuild the zaibatsu, taking on the Kanzuki name because the ignorant commoners wouldn't have understood the loving bond between the two families and they wanted the Kanzuki name to continue to be honored with the success of the zaibatsu despite it technically being run by foreigners now. They understood that class and the manner in which you carry out all your affairs is what real belonging and identity is about, not nationality, so they humbly let the memory of their family pass on
from the sight of European war crime councils
in order to do this for the Kanzukis.
 
People say Karin is Japanese, but in my mind she is time-travelling Nellie Olsen from Little House on the Prairie. She was the one person in Walnut Grove rich enough to learn martial arts and also buy a time machine (or be cryogenically frozen in the basement of Olsen's Mercantile, I haven't worked that part out yet).

Her bio says her from Japan. Her last name is also Japanese. It says her parents are from Japan. Not 1/4 Japanese stuff like Ken.

Additionally, her name isn't in Katakana, but Hiragana. The later used for foreign names. But I'm sure there's more nuance there. I'm no expert!
 
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