mgs2master2
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Can you feel it? Our phantom pain is lingering.
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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
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PedroPanache
Member
You can go back and forth on the quality of the VA, but the one constant is that the writing is mostly awful. I've never considered Kojima a particularly skilled writer in that regard. I think he's a guy who has remarkable, interesting ideas, but hasn't the skill to distil that into really compelling dialogue. The guy just needs to feed his idea to a skilled writer. The series hasn't moved on much since MGS in terms of writing. I've also never been sure just how intentional the really camp moments in the series are. Is the blatant homoeroticism of the series intentional or a by-product of a blissfully unaware individual? I don't know, but it makes for a really unusual juxtaposition to have these high camp elements mixed with these uber serious moments. Tonally, it's the strangest mainstream game you'll ever play, it's all over the place and that's great in its own way. I just wonder how much of it is intentional.
What I find odd is the rare moments of subtlety he overwrites in subsequent games. I thought the explanation of Liquid possessing Ocelot was more interesting when it was a supernatural by-product of him being The Sorrow's son. Then there's Vamp, who, if you pay close enough attention, seems to be healed by water in some way in MGS2. A far cry from the catch all deus ex machina of nanomachines in MGS4. Kojima embraces the supernatural elements of the series in one sense, only for him to quickly abandon them when faced with how to explain them. In a way, post MGS2, it's a series defined by vocal, negative fan reaction. It's had a profound effect on Kojima and his approach to the series, I feel.
What I find odd is the rare moments of subtlety he overwrites in subsequent games. I thought the explanation of Liquid possessing Ocelot was more interesting when it was a supernatural by-product of him being The Sorrow's son. Then there's Vamp, who, if you pay close enough attention, seems to be healed by water in some way in MGS2. A far cry from the catch all deus ex machina of nanomachines in MGS4. Kojima embraces the supernatural elements of the series in one sense, only for him to quickly abandon them when faced with how to explain them. In a way, post MGS2, it's a series defined by vocal, negative fan reaction. It's had a profound effect on Kojima and his approach to the series, I feel.
That's still sort of blaming him though. A better way to put it would be 'Keifer taking over the role couldn't prevent the broader clear, severe problems the VA and writing direction had'
That's Ashley Wood, not Shinkawa, at least for most of it.
KOMANI
KOMANI
There's some stuff PeaceWalker does better than MGSV. Staff recruitment/management and Combat Deployment to name a few. I have 32 TANKS! Why can't I deploy 3 against 13 S rank enemies and put the odds in my favor? In PW, you were rewarded for capturing an armored vehicle or chopper... There's no reason to Fulton them in V.
Sumio Mondo
Member
It was like 60/40 between them. Still better than MPO's cutscenes, just for seeing Shinkawa's art in motion, instead of Wood's, for a change.
Yeah, Eli was pretty much in line with what a young Liquid should be like, so I was satisfied as a Liquid fan. Episode 51 in general was really quite poignant and a step above the rest of the game's plot, imo.
Huey's character development was good too, even if it was in a dark direction. Not everything about this game's storyline sucks. I liked Huey's, Miller's and Eli's arcs, personally. I know someone will cut in and say "how dare you", but they were interesting to me.
Charlouie Jonesman
Banned
It was about 50:50 I'd say. There was also a third artist who did the MGS3 showdown flashback artworks.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I think Kojima's "I want to make this like Mad Max" excuse is just that, an excuse. He found out how much the script would cost for Kiefer to read and then went "Well, I guess it's like Mad Max! Hah, hah ha hah....oh I hate this job."
I do not for a second think it was the way he wanted to tell the story.
I do not for a second think it was the way he wanted to tell the story.
KOMANI
KOMANI
Right! Wtf is Battle Gear used for? It's ponderous man! You'd think Battle Gear would annihilate everything that stands before it.
I'm sooo ready for a Kojimaless Metal Gear ... if Konami come to their senses and continue the franchise.
Kojima's got nothing more to bring to the franchise, especially storywise.
The gameplay is almost perfect and can be easily tweaked to perfection and the story can only get better with someone else's more reasonable approach.
Kojima's got nothing more to bring to the franchise, especially storywise.
The gameplay is almost perfect and can be easily tweaked to perfection and the story can only get better with someone else's more reasonable approach.
KOMANI
KOMANI
Ah, ok... If we are going to count Twin Snakes, then... Fine. But MGS4 actors sounded like they were into it. Despite what you thought of those performances, I believed in those characters... Every time I hear Ocelot's two different voices in V, it breaks immersion.
Ocelot should have been replaced with Frank Jaegar. For the stuff they make him say, his whole existence is negligible.
As if that's going to actually happen. Konami already said that there won't be any AAA production on consoles from them.
You would need some excellent talent to make a non AAA MGS game be actually good. The series has pretty much defined what AAA has been in games since the first MGS.
There's probably also a decent argument to be made that, beyond costs, Kiefer was also not as readily available due to him being busy with live action stuff.
Sumio Mondo
Member
Miller's closer to the personality of MG2 Big Boss than Venom Snake or Big Boss himself.
GeNoMe
Member
Has this already been posted? I'm really starting to board the ruse cruise now you guys.
all aboard!
all aboard!
Sumio Mondo
Member
For all the shit about MGSV's story, I like Miller's development and arc.
Stevey
Member
Count me in :v
nature boy
Member
Sony didn't give Ueda a Kojima-like budget.
KOMANI
KOMANI
Same here. Miller is fun to listen to.
Not to mention, grand as Ueda's games are, reach nowhere near the blockbuster production value Kojima does with MGS.
EarsOfASnake
Member
Sign me up. There might not be any more MGS games to come but it would be a shame if that stopped the crazy theories from existing.
Regarding the Episode 51 content, It was disappointing to have that stuff cut purely so that arc had an ending. Loved Eli's MGS 1 line callback/forward of 'I will surpass you. I will destroy you!' though.
In semi-related news, I just found out David Hayter was in Dragon Age: Inquisition recently.
He sounds like a hybrid of his Snake voice and his "nice guy 90s anime" voice (though leaning a lot on the former).
He sounds like a hybrid of his Snake voice and his "nice guy 90s anime" voice (though leaning a lot on the former).
Guys, its time to let it die.
Dick Justice
Banned
Extremely old.
Tribes of Trusty
Member
lol
You know what would've been really interesting ? For the game to pull off the twist reveal of Venom Snake being the medic sometime around mid-game, and then switch for the real Big Boss for the rest of the missions, and each character would have their own areas and set of missions.
That would allow more gameplay variety, it would give closure for the players, it would allow us to play as the real Big Boss, and it would give us opportunity story-wise to see how Big Boss became what he is in MG1 and MG2 and him becoming a "demon", and show the contrast between Venom Snake and Big Boss.
It would still work as a meta commentary about the player is Big Boss and makes their own stories, and would echo the MGS2 character swticheroo, only here it would actually be more accepted. As in, "You played a character that looked like Big Boss for 30 hours, so you see, you can have fun even without him".
And they sure as shit wouldn't give Kojima the budget or freedom to work like he's been used to.
He's so terrible speaking the last syllable of every sentence.
"You join the legion knowing you're already dead" was well delivered, though.
Nintendoga
Member
Almost as bad as the "There's stuff intentionally cut out of the game to give YOU the Phantom Pain." Incredibly deep.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Kojima does mistakes. The time thing and the eye is such one. Fucking Venom aims with his blind eye. Games are not perfect.
That'd have probably been a better Venom Snake voice than what we got.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
I still can't believe some of the best lines from the game are stuff locked behind an insane always online gameplay element that doesn't actually work.
That someone had to hack them out just so we could hear and see them. Putting the 'auteur' into 'utter shit'.
That someone had to hack them out just so we could hear and see them. Putting the 'auteur' into 'utter shit'.
Sumio Mondo
Member
Never said that they did. At least Kojima ships his games though.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
I would like to have Ishmael and Skull Face as a fragment of his imagination, you know - for bad and good decisions. It sound cheesy, but could work if done well.
PedroPanache
Member
I don't know, you have to think that Kojima has now had numerous opportunities to close out that arc and bring in Solid Snake. It seemed obvious to everyone that the game should lead into MG1 and create one last iconic moment in the series. I just don't think he knew how resolve the saga into the Solid Snake saga. Hence the missed opportunities for meaningful characters that connect the SS ganes to the BB games.
The VS/BB bait and switch served little purpose than tying up loose end from MG1 to MG2.
The eye thing is more than a mistake.
The time thing is just blatant illogical scene construction to have a cool shot in sunrise.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
A question no one had been asking or even really cared about it because it's from the days of "bad guy survived, hint at cybernetic enhancements" and that was enough.
Tribes of Trusty
Member
And frankly, in a series where near-immortality is achieved through technological means, it is kind of funny that a nanomachines pumped body of someone seems more logical than a magical body double.
Oldest Snake
Member
On a more positive post-MGSV note, I've decided that since you can get 'Snake Eater' on a cassette tape that means that Ocelot went and had a song commissioned detailing the greatest era of his life: the first time he met Big Boss.
This is canon now.
This is canon now.
Then you have to accept that MSF would also regularly dance to 'Love Deterrence'.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Part of how he helped Venom regain his "memories".
Officially canon and undisputed.
Using DNA to create an identical version of yourself so that there can be two of you: Creepy, Big Boss wants nothing to do with it.
Brainwashing your close friend and essentially turning him into a copy of yourself so that there can be two of you: Big Boss is totally down with this plan.
Brainwashing your close friend and essentially turning him into a copy of yourself so that there can be two of you: Big Boss is totally down with this plan.
PedroPanache
Member
Exactly. it's all just muddied the water and added one needless layer onto a mystery that was already solved, when they really should been working out how to make Solid a huge part of the games closing act.
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