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Metal Gear Solid V: Dissociative Disorder (Super Bunnyhop review and analysis)
- Thread starter Zombie James
- Start date
Do you realize the thread that you're in?
This isn't Super Mario, the MGS franchise is closely tied to the quality of their narratives.
Yes the gameplay is better than MGS2/3 but the vast gap on the story side drags the game as a whole down.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
because
1) It's a MGS game and fans of MGS like story, it's kinda a staple of the franchise.
2) saying "lol it's a video game" is stupid and many people play games for story and many games have great stories. It's not 1993, games aren't just gameplay anymore.
More like 8 hours of cutscenes and 5-6 hours of gameplay. Finishing the game under 3 hours while skipping all cutscenes is challenging, a normal playthrough won't be close to that.
But yeah MGSV has a way different ratio.
hydrophilic attack
Member
I'm far away from beating the game. So I guess I'm not really qualified to speak. But so far, the core gameplay is absolutely amazing. Best of the series, by far. So I think the reviewers' lavish praise can be justified. I haven't gotten all that far, so I'm not qualified to speak about the story. But gamers tolerated the stories of 4 and Peace Walker, so it seems fans should be ok with stories that are not all that great
Exploratory
Banned
I didn't say it was the best MGS. It's not. I said it's the best stealth game. The variety of interiors and exteriors, the sandbox, the attention to detail, the difficulty curve, controls, etc. Best stealth game I've played. The story has nothing to do with that. I'm talking about the actual stealth mechanics.
As in gameplay. I'm talking about gameplay not story. Gameplay.
Gameplay.
The point is if a games gameplay is 10/10 and there's so much and it has so much variety everything else is secondary.
And if that blows your mind think about the TLoU. It's a very generic TPS gameplay wise but it's a 10/10.
I like to critique the entirety of a product rather than hand out gold star stickers for doing something 80% correct.
Zombie James
Banned
Even when you look at MGSV from a pure gameplay perspective and ignore the story and everything else, you still have some very serious gameplay-related issues like:
- The amount of time it takes to get from one mission to another, or even from one part of your base to another.
- The repetitive mission structures and the padded missions in Chapter 2.
- The repetitive boss fights.
- The timers.
- The largely empty "open worlds" of Afghanistan and Africa.
MGSV's problems go well beyond the story. These problems can't and shouldn't be swept under the rug. Thankfully they aren't (by fans, at least).
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
I've actually been eagerly awaiting this analysis because of how much his MGS2 video changed my entire perspective on that game, and video games in general.
Theres some points I definitely agree and I can't help but wonder what was going through KojiPro's mind. He makes a good point of the way the game was touted from a marketing perspective. The game's structuring is something that made me curious too. Why even call it chapters when there are only 2 and having the Chapter 3 title card "Peace" (with the Boss' scars). Surely, they knew people/fans would comb over every detail and find this.
Oddly, overall my opinion on it seems the same but seems to carry a different mood. There's no bittersweetness for me. Intentional or not, I think its brilliant. Perfectly encapsulates the roller coaster that was this series from nearly every aspect including the real world/meta.
"There are no facts, only interpretations". hah.
Great video and analysis.
Theres some points I definitely agree and I can't help but wonder what was going through KojiPro's mind. He makes a good point of the way the game was touted from a marketing perspective. The game's structuring is something that made me curious too. Why even call it chapters when there are only 2 and having the Chapter 3 title card "Peace" (with the Boss' scars). Surely, they knew people/fans would comb over every detail and find this.
Oddly, overall my opinion on it seems the same but seems to carry a different mood. There's no bittersweetness for me. Intentional or not, I think its brilliant. Perfectly encapsulates the roller coaster that was this series from nearly every aspect including the real world/meta.
"There are no facts, only interpretations". hah.
Great video and analysis.
Zomba13
Member
There are interiors?
RavenEffect
Neo Member
He summed up perfectly how I feel about V. George deserves a lot more respect when it comes to reviews.
Also I don't know if this was posted earlier but am I the only one that couldn't believe how much Greg Miller and Yongyea love the game? I get it that they dug the mechanics and fluid gameplay but for two guys who have been absolute diehards since the beginning I was pretty surprised to see how they passive they were towards the story, especially Yongyea.
Also I don't know if this was posted earlier but am I the only one that couldn't believe how much Greg Miller and Yongyea love the game? I get it that they dug the mechanics and fluid gameplay but for two guys who have been absolute diehards since the beginning I was pretty surprised to see how they passive they were towards the story, especially Yongyea.
Foxtastical
Member
Rewatching his MGS3 video is fun. God damn, I love MGS3.
NoctisVsStar
Member
Very Kojima.
Don't care if it's a 'bad mgs' the game is obviously not focused on story so it can suck like a Platinum game. It would be like docking points because RE4 is not survival horror enough or Peace Walker for not being like previous games since it was tailored for portables, Rising for not being stealth etc. It excels at what it sets out to do.
Definitely doesn't deserve perfect scores though, It has plenty of issues.
Definitely doesn't deserve perfect scores though, It has plenty of issues.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
A lot of people also seem to excuse or downplay a lot of the questionable gameplay decisions of the Big Shell section of MGS2 when they talk about what it achieves as a narrative (which I half agree and disagree, as my relationship with MGS2 is a little complicated), so I don't think it's unreasonable to accept that a lot of people swing the other way when it comes to MGS V and excuse/downplay its narrative weaknesses because of what it achieves in the gameplay department. And yes, I'm aware of the complaints some have about mission structure.
Yes.
Well it is most certainly the best stealth game IMO. Chaos Theory does not compare when it comes to stealth mechanics. However it is not hard to understand that fans of the series can be disappointed in the story of a traditional story heavy franchise. You would not get this reaction from SC fans because in those games
a. The stories and characters in SC were always garbage or at the least uninteresting
b. Story is not emphasized nearly as much.
I am disappointed in the game as a Metal Gear fan and rank it below MGS4 even though I can confidently accept that MGSV is the best stealth game ever made.
Its a really solid review. Nice video.
The game's major problem is pacing. Even with the amount of cutscenes and dialogue it had - it works fine but just needed fewer hours of main missions and less repeatitive side ops.
Instead of giving us 50+ hours of content, give us just 20 hours - but make it tight and lean.
The game's major problem is pacing. Even with the amount of cutscenes and dialogue it had - it works fine but just needed fewer hours of main missions and less repeatitive side ops.
Instead of giving us 50+ hours of content, give us just 20 hours - but make it tight and lean.
The person above you among others. Clearly. Maybe replace "Who Cares?" with "I don't care."
Yeah, those videos are amazing. They totally speak to why people should interest themselves in what he has to say.
that was good.
game will go down badly. it's already "aging" bad for me (beat it a few days ago) cause once you get some distance from the fantastic gameplay all the disappointing and confusing stuff more easily resurfaces as the thing you'll remember.
just kind of a bummer in a 'what could have been' way
game will go down badly. it's already "aging" bad for me (beat it a few days ago) cause once you get some distance from the fantastic gameplay all the disappointing and confusing stuff more easily resurfaces as the thing you'll remember.
just kind of a bummer in a 'what could have been' way
Well there's Nova Braga Airport
And uh
This one building in OKB zero has at least four rooms in it.
WrenchNinja
Member
Literally the only good review I've seen of this game.
Sums up my feelings perfectly. A good to great game with some terrible design decisions. The open world bloat ruined the already not so great storyline and killed any forward pacing. The helicopter loading times and the annoyance of traveling around the world were some of the other glaring issues.
I know we've talked about the review "camp" conditions 40 hour thing before and all and it's not like im a big review guy but it really is god damn weird how a game with this many clear flaws can get such "perfect" scores
it's just kinda ridiculous to think that you wouldn't find significant flaws in this thing. Aspects (BIG aspects. As in; the biggest aspect of previous games for example) of it are down right terrible.
only really reinforces me not being a big review guy..
it's just kinda ridiculous to think that you wouldn't find significant flaws in this thing. Aspects (BIG aspects. As in; the biggest aspect of previous games for example) of it are down right terrible.
only really reinforces me not being a big review guy..
and in 5 years everyone will love it again
Nah. There will be another game to replace it in the gameplay department, stories last forever.
Royal Rainbow
Member
You're saying that MGSV has the best gameplay of any stealth game. Games are a combination of a bunch of different aspects.
Gameplay isn't the entirety of a game. Games have soundtracks, story, pacing, ambiance, art style, graphics, level design, humor, etc.
People play games for different reasons. Maybe you value gameplay more than other aspects but for a lot of people the other parts are as or even more important than gameplay. The characters and plot have always been a large part of the previous MGS games and if you removed it all from the old games I don't think they would be nearly as good for a lot of people. It's ridiculous to say that gameplay is the only part of a videogame that matters.
I think this guy hit on every criticism I've had of MGSV. Every. Single. One. Like, he didn't say anything I disagreed with, at all.
What an unsettling feeling, especially since most of the week 1 reviews I read or saw barely took a breather between sessions of slobbering this game's chode. I thought I was the one missing out on something.
At any rate, how MGSV turned out was really upsetting. MGS4 was a turd, through and through, and I finished the game quite annoyed with literally every aspect. With MGSV I kinda clung on to the gameplay, which fell into a "you always win" rote, despite having lots of things to do, until I couldn't any more. There's no surprise, risk or challenge to the gameplay. There's no stakes in anything you do, nothing that intrigued or fascinated me. When they did ramp up the difficulty it was with the Skulls, who were shitty bullet sponges. Not exactly my idea of fun. Good metaphor for the game, however: there's no personality to them, and no matter how much you chip away at them they just don't fucking die.
It's basically one giant grind for people who have nothing better to do. It has no respect for me or the time I'm putting into it, and doesn't even pay out with a good story at the end of it. All you get is a boring revenge story (with a shitty twist elongated for hours after Chapter 1 is finished) narrated by talking heads. No one goes through much development or grows in any way. Before the game has even begun all the characters had made their bed, and we get the privilege of watching them lay in it. For hours and hours and hours.
The second I actually thought about whether I was enjoying MGSV or not, rather than persisting to get a sliver of extra story, I realised that I hadn't been enjoying the game much at all. Rock solid mechanics that I wish, at the very least, MGS3 and 4 had, surrounded by utter mediocrity.
What an unsettling feeling, especially since most of the week 1 reviews I read or saw barely took a breather between sessions of slobbering this game's chode. I thought I was the one missing out on something.
At any rate, how MGSV turned out was really upsetting. MGS4 was a turd, through and through, and I finished the game quite annoyed with literally every aspect. With MGSV I kinda clung on to the gameplay, which fell into a "you always win" rote, despite having lots of things to do, until I couldn't any more. There's no surprise, risk or challenge to the gameplay. There's no stakes in anything you do, nothing that intrigued or fascinated me. When they did ramp up the difficulty it was with the Skulls, who were shitty bullet sponges. Not exactly my idea of fun. Good metaphor for the game, however: there's no personality to them, and no matter how much you chip away at them they just don't fucking die.
It's basically one giant grind for people who have nothing better to do. It has no respect for me or the time I'm putting into it, and doesn't even pay out with a good story at the end of it. All you get is a boring revenge story (with a shitty twist elongated for hours after Chapter 1 is finished) narrated by talking heads. No one goes through much development or grows in any way. Before the game has even begun all the characters had made their bed, and we get the privilege of watching them lay in it. For hours and hours and hours.
The second I actually thought about whether I was enjoying MGSV or not, rather than persisting to get a sliver of extra story, I realised that I hadn't been enjoying the game much at all. Rock solid mechanics that I wish, at the very least, MGS3 and 4 had, surrounded by utter mediocrity.
Eh, I'm not sure of that. I mean, I get what you're saying, but I and plenty of others have been following the series since the beginning and still love MGSV. A lot of the online reaction to the game is akin to MGS4 when it released. There's just a very vocal group of people who hate the way the story went after MGS3. But it's not everyone by any means. MGS4 has plenty of fans, but like sometimes happens in internet fandom, one groups screams and shouts from the rooftops to drown out everyone else.
Stories get old and forgotten. Kojima gave us a perfected sandbox to enjoy for years. People still play Mario to this day game play if done right can stand test of time not 30 min cut scenes.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Don't forget all those shacks and hovels. If you add them up you get more interiors than any other metal gear. Game of the forever brahs.
swearing-circle
Member
I really like this guys analysis' of the games in the series and his MGS2 deconstruction was amazing. I agree with a lot of what he's said here but fortunately for me a lot of the gripes he had didn't bother me so much.
While the story wasn't great (I don't consider it bad either) the cutscenes themselves were entertaining to watch and although I did feel let down overall I still enjoyed it. I also like to kid myself into thinking this is Kojima being meta in regards to phantom pain. As unlikely as that may be.
The thing I agreed with most is the
. He completely put the nail on the head there.
While the story wasn't great (I don't consider it bad either) the cutscenes themselves were entertaining to watch and although I did feel let down overall I still enjoyed it. I also like to kid myself into thinking this is Kojima being meta in regards to phantom pain. As unlikely as that may be.
The thing I agreed with most is the
Paz storyline
Kenzodielocke
Banned
This game has no personality. In ten years, no matter how shitty you think MGS4 is, I will remember certain scenes because I have an emotional attatchment to it. MGSV has none of these and that is why I am disappointed so hard with this game.
Mario has the advantage of never being known for its story.
I really liked his analysis of how this fixes the
and recontextualizes
and how peace walker
. These points are why I think the best order is 1 2 3 for the first half and PW V 4 for the second half. The narrative contexts become stronger if you go release order, but with 4 at the end.
The gameplay and visuals evolve in a steady manner, too. PW is a bridge between 3 and V, and 4 is similar to V but more streamlined, some more tech, and mass produced metal gears in 4. The fact that you're old solid snake would also create a feeling of "he's evolved in his own ways". Old Snake has a more classic item system and more technical cqc system than what we got in pw and v. Also, Solid Eye and the Threat Ring and Octo Camo are still amazing stealth tools and probably better than the mid-tier items in PW and V by a mile. The scanning plug creates an interesting comparison with the tagging and buddy system from V. Drebin's shop is like a streamlined mother base, where soldiers become money, instead of a resource to manage, and the mark 2 is kind of like having a buddy.
I didn't agree with SBH at all on his gameplay gripes in V, however. That just comes down to personal taste, I had no complaints. I enjoyed driving around between missions blowing up outposts more than once and coming up with creative ways to ruin guards' day. I suspect that if you play act 1 with the idea that you're not going to play most of the side ops until chapter 2, the story flows better and feels more natural. (checking them off as you get them is a way to make the game feel long, it's sub-optimal)
zero & crew backstory of mgs4
mg1's final battle against the boss
actually did feed into mg2's story
The gameplay and visuals evolve in a steady manner, too. PW is a bridge between 3 and V, and 4 is similar to V but more streamlined, some more tech, and mass produced metal gears in 4. The fact that you're old solid snake would also create a feeling of "he's evolved in his own ways". Old Snake has a more classic item system and more technical cqc system than what we got in pw and v. Also, Solid Eye and the Threat Ring and Octo Camo are still amazing stealth tools and probably better than the mid-tier items in PW and V by a mile. The scanning plug creates an interesting comparison with the tagging and buddy system from V. Drebin's shop is like a streamlined mother base, where soldiers become money, instead of a resource to manage, and the mark 2 is kind of like having a buddy.
I didn't agree with SBH at all on his gameplay gripes in V, however. That just comes down to personal taste, I had no complaints. I enjoyed driving around between missions blowing up outposts more than once and coming up with creative ways to ruin guards' day. I suspect that if you play act 1 with the idea that you're not going to play most of the side ops until chapter 2, the story flows better and feels more natural. (checking them off as you get them is a way to make the game feel long, it's sub-optimal)
I'm going to be honest here and this is just for me, but none of those you mentioned are problems for me or even remotely serious issues.
I looooove the large open worlds of Afghanistan and Africa. I'll stick DD into a jeep and we'll go for a long ride to our destinations fultoning and killing things along the way. I like the silence, the loneliness, the long drives to go to somewhere (should you choose, there's plenty of other options to get somewhere fast). People said the same thing about Far Cry 2 and I disagreed with them then as well. I don't need lots of things to keep me occupied in a world, just outposts/bases and a lot of tricks and toys.
I realise that's not how a lot of folk feel but just for me it is, MGSV is a very special game just from a gameplay point of view. Love it. I certainly can't argue with the story being flawed but even then it doesn't bother me that much but I'm admittedly not deep into the lore. The only thing I didn't like was
Mission 51 being left out/not finished
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I wouldn't call it a "perfected sandbox" by any stretch of the imagination.
But the thing is, by the standards of its own predecessors, V is not even remotely 10/10.
Here are some things not present:
-Well paced campaign
-Variety of locations (wide spaces, tight quarters, verticality, detailed unique areas)
-Amazing boss fights
-Variety in gameplay (pure stealth sections, disguising yourself, shootout levels, gradual increase in enemy difficulty, security cameras and automated defenses, rappelling / climbing / etc)
- Non repetitive goals - always a clear sense of what you're doing and WHY
I could go on, but if people are gonna argue that MGSV has "10/10" gameplay then they need to hold it against the standards of its predecessors. In my eyes it's good but not even close to 1 /2 / 3 / maybe 4 in terms of how enjoyable it is to play through start to finish.
I would really venture to say that if you've done one mission you've done them all. The game is fun at the start but there is no sense of variety or pacing whatsoever.
I disagree, I'll be playing this for years to come.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Sold mine as soon as I got the true ending. ¯|_(ツ
_|¯Maybe if there was some variety in what was left to do, I would have kept it. But the sideops left and the barren open world left me with zero interest in continuining. There are very few games that deserve the label "perfect" in regard to any part of them, and MGSV certainly isn't one of them.