So like how does Pro Wrestling work?

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Krejlooc

Banned
Wrestlers from the 80s were notorious for all kinds of substance abuse, steroids, and generally speaking poor body maintenance. Many of them weren't "athletes" the way wrestlers today are. They were bodybuilders or otherwise big dudes who had to maintain being a big dude.

That's pretty ironic because I remember them using Hulk Hogan all the time int he late 80's and 90's in "Just say no" campaigns.

Did hogan used to do drugs?

From my "outsider" perspective, Hulk Hogan is like the Babe Ruth of wrestling. He's pretty much THE wrestler, or at least I always perceived him that way.

People fucking hate Hogan now. Even before the racism stuff emerged.

Why did they hate him before the racism stuff came out? Wasn't he once the poster boy for the WWF?
 
Who are the big stars of wrestling today? I guess I know who john cena is, but who else is big? I'm guessing Hogan was still the big bad guy? Did he and cena ever wrestle?

Hogan hasn't actively wrestled in years or participated in storylines really at all in the modern era.

Right now Seth Rollins is the champion and is feuding with Sting and John Cena.

Ric Flair's daughter Charlotte just became the women's division champion (kind of a sweet moment with both of them in the ring at the end of that match).

A guy name Daniel Bryan who is tiny and beardy but awesome at wrestling was set to be a huge champion but has the worst luck in the world when it comes to injuries and no one knows if he is every going to actually have his moment in the sun like the fans think he's deserved for years at this point.

That's pretty ironic because I remember them using Hulk Hogan all the time int he late 80's and 90's in "Just say no" campaigns.

Did hogan used to do drugs?

From my "outsider" perspective, Hulk Hogan is like the Babe Ruth of wrestling. He's pretty much THE wrestler, or at least I always perceived him that way.

Hogan was probably using steroids like everyone else back in the day but as far as I know he didn't have issues otherwise. He just has a huge ego and was an asshole to everyone, went to TNA for a while and sucked there in the 2000s, and recently had a PR meltdown and the WWE has scrubbed all mentions of him from their website.

They haven't needed him for over a decade and with guys like The Rock and John Cena being much better ambassadors of the company they never will again.
 
Due to massively poor booking over a long period of time, WWE has no other stars on the same level of Cena except Brock Lesnar who is part-time.

They had CM Punk two years ago but the booker was jealous of him which he got tired of and left, and Daniel Bryan last year but he is now injured, possibly career ending.

The best of who they have who have got any decent amount of airtime is Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose.
 

Seraphis Cain

bad gameplay lol
Who are the big stars of wrestling today? I guess I know who john cena is, but who else is big? I'm guessing Hogan was still the big bad guy? Did he and cena ever wrestle?

Hogan and Cena never wrestled, no. Hogan did have a big match with The Rock back about 13 years ago.

The big stars today? Hm. Seth Rollins, Daniel Bryan (if he ever comes back from injury), Brock Lesnar, Sheamus, Roman Reigns, Cena, really just look at modern WWE's roster. There's probably still a few guys there you'd have heard of, like Big Show (WCW's Giant) and Kane (Undertaker's storyline brother).
 
Who are the big stars of wrestling today? I guess I know who john cena is, but who else is big? I'm guessing Hogan was still the big bad guy? Did he and cena ever wrestle?

Besides Cena there's Randy Orton, Dean Ambrose, Roman Reigns, former UFC champ Brock Lesnar (though he only shows up for special occasions) and the current WWE champion Seth Rollins. Also, Stephanie McMahon and her husband Triple H have taken her father's role as the evil authority figures on television.

Cena never wrestled Hogan because Cena only really took over just around the time Hogan nearly stopped wrestling all together (Hogan only had 2 WWE matches after Cena won his first WWE title).
 
Hogan and Cena never wrestled, no. Hogan did have a big match with The Rock back about 13 years ago.

The big stars today? Hm. Seth Rollins, Daniel Bryan (if he ever comes back from injury), Brock Lesnar, Sheamus, Roman Reigns, Cena, really just look at modern WWE's roster. There's probably still a few guys there you'd have heard of, like Big Show (WCW's Giant) and Kane (Undertaker's storyline brother).

Sheamus??????????
 
That's pretty ironic because I remember them using Hulk Hogan all the time int he late 80's and 90's in "Just say no" campaigns.

Did hogan used to do drugs?

From my "outsider" perspective, Hulk Hogan is like the Babe Ruth of wrestling. He's pretty much THE wrestler, or at least I always perceived him that way.



Why did they hate him before the racism stuff came out? Wasn't he once the poster boy for the WWF?

It's pretty much and open secret that Hogan was a steroid abuser.

Also, WWE had a rocky relationship with Hogan in the past due to him leaving for competing promotions (namely WCW and TNA).
 

Lingitiz

Member
Who are the big stars of wrestling today? I guess I know who john cena is, but who else is big? I'm guessing Hogan was still the big bad guy? Did he and cena ever wrestle?
Cena is still the only true top guy. Brock Lesnar only works part time although when he is around he takes the top spot above Cena arguably. Randy Orton was once up there but he's mostly irrelevant today in the mid card despite being popular.

WWE has tried for many years to build new stars but always fucks it up for fear of bad ratings or whatever dumb reason, and they end up caving back to overreliance on Cena. And they always book part timers over guys who are there every day. CM Punk and Daniel Bryan were the closest they have gotten to new top stars in recent years. But now Punk is out all together and Daniel Bryan is too injured. Seth Rollins has the title now and you can argue that he is currently their big star, but he needs more time and better stories around him to really be the guy.

A problem is that they tend to overwork these guys who want to become the top star to the point of severe injuries and exhaustion. And then they fail to give them their dues and book older guys and part timers above them at big events. Hard to not be burned out by the process.
 

Krejlooc

Banned
It's pretty much and open secret that Hogan was a steroid abuser.

Also, WWE had a rocky relationship with Hogan in the past due to him leaving for competing promotions (namely WCW and TNA).

lol I remember him telling me to drink milk and go to school when I was a kid in between saturday morning cartoons. what a hypocrite.
 

Seraphis Cain

bad gameplay lol
Sheamus??????????

Hey, he might be the champion again! Maybe!

Nah.

So what was the deal with Hogan? Why did he turn into a bad guy? How did his story get resolved?

The backstage reason he became a bad guy was because crowds had long been tired of his squeaky-clean babyface image. They'd boo him even though he was a face. Basically what's been happening to Cena for years now except WWE will never turn him because he sells too much merch to the younger fans, not to mention all his Make-a-Wish stuff, which is great PR for WWE.

Anyway WCW knew it'd be money if they turned him. And it took a lot of convincing because Hogan didn't want to do it at first, but he eventually agreed and that was essentially the beginning of the nWo, which for a while was the biggest thing in wrestling, until WCW killed it by flooding it with mid-carders and spinning it off into multiple groups.
 

VoxPop

Member
So what was the deal with Hogan? Why did he turn into a bad guy? How did his story get resolved?

Everyone was starting to get sick of him by that point. He was the goody goody eat your vitamins, say your prayers guy. He wasn't a bad guy since very early in his career so it was extremely surprising and refreshing when he turned into a bad guy. This was WCW's biggest storyline and made them into the premier organization at the time along with Kevin Nash and Scott Hall who had just come over from WWE.

But people got sick of him too. He then came over to the WWE after they purchased WCW and they tried to bring the NWO (the group he was leading in WCW) into WWE. It was awful and he ended up wrestling The Rock at Wrestlemania in which the crowd loved him for whatever reason. He ended shaking hands with the Rock (in a passing of the torch sorta thing) and turned into a good guy again.
 

UberTag

Member
Cena never wrestled Hogan because Cena only really took over just around the time Hogan nearly stopped wrestling all together (Hogan only had 2 WWE matches after Cena won his first WWE title).
They did tag together once, though. 6-man tag featuring Cena / Hogan / Michaels against Y2J / Blue Dot / Tomko.

shawn-michaels-with-hulk-hogan-and-john-cena.jpg
hogancena2.jpg
 
So what was the deal with Hogan? Why did he turn into a bad guy? How did his story get resolved?

Basically his cartoony WWF-style shtick didn't click with WCW audiences (which preferred a more realistic, down to earth, athletically focused product), and, in 1996, WCW brought in Scott Hall and Kevin Nash and played the whole thing off as a WWF invasion of WCW, so they made Hogan the ringleader of this invading force (which he dubed the "New World Order") since he was the most WWF wrestler ever, had him turn his back on the ungrateful fans, becoming a sleazy, egotistical heel who thought he was bigger than Pro Wrestling. He did turn good again a couple of times in WCW, but most people don't think it was really resolved until he returned to the WWF/E, where the fans welcomed him back with open arms despite still playing the nWo heel character, and ultimately turned good again at WMX8 after losing cleanly to The Rock.
 

VoxPop

Member
...this didn't actually explain anything lol. So he just becomes bad all of the sudden out of the blue without explanation? And he's bad because he beat up randy savage?

Kevin Nash and Scott Hall had come over from WWE in sort of an invasion angle. They were beating everyone up and claiming there was a third man coming. It ended up being Hogan the poster boy. That leg drop basically symbolized him turning into a bad guy and betraying another good guy in Randy Savage.

Randy Savage was also allegedly banished from WWE for sleeping with Vince's underage daughter. Unrelated to the Hogan stuff of course.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
So what was the deal with Hogan? Why did he turn into a bad guy? How did his story get resolved?

The story in brief:

Hogan leaves the WWF in 1993, seemingly for good. Goes to Japan, where he was popular even before he was big in the US for a bit before signing the largest contract in wrestling history with WCW, the WWF's rival, in 1994. He has unheard of creative control over his character and a portion of the live gate and PPV fees of any show he is on.

Now WCW epitomizes southern wrestling and Hogan is the big star from the New York City based WWF, but he's also still the largest name in pro wrestling history and they have a lot of new potential fights for him in WCW. He wins their world championship in his first fight and keeps it for most of the next two years. While business does go noticeably up during the early days of his run he also ends up convincing management to bring in or give favorable treatment to his friends, usually via his creative control. By the end of 1995 though the crowds have really started to turn on Hogan though some still love him and the stories they can tell with a guy who refuses to lose to up and comers at all makes it hard to refresh the situation.

At the same time this is happening the WWF is going through their own troubles. 1995 is largely considered their worst year, mainly the hangover from the steroid and sex abuse scandals of the early 90's and WCW spending money and competing with them on Monday Nights and by 1996 they end up poaching two of their biggest names, Scott Hall and Kevin Nash (who also gets creative control and an even more insidious pay raise whenever anyone elses contract gets higher than his) Hogan, who is just about done with his original contract is worried that WCW will just get rid of him and decides that he will actually become the bad guy with these two other invaders from the north, forming the NWO. I'm sure you remember their shirts from the 90's.

This storyline is genius because Hogan turns on the stars of WCW and joins up with "two guys from up North" and they run roughshod over the company for...well, basically the rest of its life. It should have ended earlier than that but well, two of those fellows had veto powers, the merchandise did incredibly well and the ratings, while steadily decreasing near the end were still better than anything else on TNT outside of Basketball games.

So anyways, when WWE buys WCW and after the invasion fails largely because Vince didn't want to upset the payscale by bringing in names like Hogan and Goldberg (who all had contracts through Turner and were not part of the WCW sale) he eventually caves a year later and brings in the NWO. The other two members get injured pretty much right away but they set up a program where Hogan fights the Rock, just at the beginning of his hollywood career and basically a part time wrestler at that point...and the fans start cheering for Hogan! Nostalgia is a hell of a drug, he's a good guy again and remains so for the rest of his WWF career...which isn't too long.

His most recent role with the company was as a goodwill ambassador and MC for Wrestlemania.
 
Is this a wrestling storyline, or real life?

Real life, though there's no real proof of it happening beyond the apparent bad blood between McMahon and Savage. A just as valid theory is Savage running off with the Slim Jim sponsorship (And, if there is one thing that really pisses Vince off, it's money. Jeff Jarret was similarly blackballed just because he made Vince pay him 500k to do a match for him when he wasn't under contract). TV storylines wouldn't get that sleazy until around '98-'99 (ie. Triple H "marrying" a clearly passed out Stephanie McMahon at a Vegas drive-thru).
 

Krejlooc

Banned
The story in brief:

Hogan leaves the WWF in 1993, seemingly for good. Goes to Japan, where he was popular even before he was big in the US for a bit before signing the largest contract in wrestling history with WCW, the WWF's rival, in 1994. He has unheard of creative control over his character and a portion of the live gate and PPV fees of any show he is on.

Now WCW epitomizes southern wrestling and Hogan is the big star from the New York City based WWF, but he's also still the largest name in pro wrestling history and they have a lot of new potential fights for him in WCW. He wins their world championship in his first fight and keeps it for most of the next two years. While business does go noticeably up during the early days of his run he also ends up convincing management to bring in or give favorable treatment to his friends, usually via his creative control. By the end of 1995 though the crowds have really started to turn on Hogan though some still love him and the stories they can tell with a guy who refuses to lose to up and comers at all makes it hard to refresh the situation.

At the same time this is happening the WWF is going through their own troubles. 1995 is largely considered their worst year, mainly the hangover from the steroid and sex abuse scandals of the early 90's and WCW spending money and competing with them on Monday Nights and by 1996 they end up poaching two of their biggest names, Scott Hall and Kevin Nash (who also gets creative control and an even more insidious pay raise whenever anyone elses contract gets higher than his) Hogan, who is just about done with his original contract is worried that WCW will just get rid of him and decides that he will actually become the bad guy with these two other invaders from the north, forming the NWO. I'm sure you remember their shirts from the 90's.

This storyline is genius because Hogan turns on the stars of WCW and joins up with "two guys from up North" and they run roughshod over the company for...well, basically the rest of its life. It should have ended earlier than that but well, two of those fellows had veto powers, the merchandise did incredibly well and the ratings, while steadily decreasing near the end were still better than anything else on TNT outside of Basketball games.

So anyways, when WWE buys WCW and after the invasion fails largely because Vince didn't want to upset the payscale by bringing in names like Hogan and Goldberg (who all had contracts through Turner and were not part of the WCW sale) he eventually caves a year later and brings in the NWO. The other two members get injured pretty much right away but they set up a program where Hogan fights the Rock, just at the beginning of his hollywood career and basically a part time wrestler at that point...and the fans start cheering for Hogan! Nostalgia is a hell of a drug, he's a good guy again and remains so for the rest of his WWF career...which isn't too long.

His most recent role with the company was as a goodwill ambassador and MC for Wrestlemania.

So was the rock a good guy in wrestling?
 

VoxPop

Member
Is this a wrestling storyline, or real life?

Real life. But just a rumor. They basically never acknowledged him after he left. Even Bret Hart who had spit in Vince McMahon's face and gave him a black eye (irl) was welcomed back in good graces several years later when Bret realized he needed money. Randy Savage wasnt just until a year or so back which is crazy cause he left about 20 years ago.
 
So was the rock a good guy in wrestling?

He switched back and forth a lot in his early years, but by '02 he was a solid babyface (good guy).

More thorough answer: he started in '96 as generic smiling babyface Rocky Maivia, but, as this was a post nWo world, no one wanted that, leading to crowds chanting "DIE ROCKY DIE" and "ROCKY SUCKS" during his matches. This lead to him turning his back on the fans (much like Hogan), joining and ultimately taking over black-supremacist wrestling stable The Nation of Domination. During that period he revealed a level of charisma that caused the majority of fans to start actually liking him, briefly turning him face before he turned heel (bad guy) again, becoming Mr. McMahon's Corporate Champion, though this wouldn't last as he turned face again after losing the belt to Steve Austin, remaining a face until '02 when he left for Hollywood, breifly returning as a egotistical Hollywood heel in '03 and as his traditional face character in '04 and '11-13.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
So was the rock a good guy in wrestling?

At that time yes! During that fight though they did a double turn. Rock was booed and Hogan cheered and from then on the Rock decided to play himself as "Hollywood Rock" star of such movies as the Rundown and the Scorpion King and was a full on bad guy.

Ironic since NWO Hogan, aka bad guy Hogan, also went under the name of "Hollywood Hulk Hogan", star of such movies as 3 Ninjas 3: High Noon at Mega Mountain.
 
So was the rock a good guy in wrestling?

By the time him and Hogan faced off, yeah.

And when he debuted in the 90s. But The Rock got massively popular when they gave him a microphone when he randomly asked one night early in his career and he started actively insulting the audience. The crowd ate it up and that's where all of the catchphrases and The Rock talking in third person about himself being awesome came from. He knew how to talk to a crowd like pretty much no one else had before. He was a "bad guy" but easily the crowd favorite along with Stone Cold (who was a "good guy" but was still pretty angry most of the time).
 

Krejlooc

Banned
Real life. But just a rumor. They basically never acknowledged him after he left. Even Bret Hart who had spit in Vince McMahon's face and gave him a black eye (irl) was welcomed back in good graces several years later when Bret realized he needed money. Randy Savage wasnt just until a year or so back which is crazy cause he left about 20 years ago.

wait, I thought randy savage died IRL several years ago.
 

Seraphis Cain

bad gameplay lol
Real life. But just a rumor. They basically never acknowledged him after he left. Even Bret Hart who had spit in Vince McMahon's face and gave him a black eye (irl) was welcomed back in good graces several years later when Bret realized he needed money. Randy Savage wasnt just until a year or so back which is crazy cause he left about 20 years ago.

Yeah basically this. The assumption is that the Steph/Macho Man thing is true because Vince McMahon has a personal philosophy of "never hold grudges". No matter how much you hate someone, they might still be able to make you a shitzillion dollars somewhere down the line, so never close doors for good by holding a grudge. The fact that he never reconciled with Savage leads most to believe that Savage did something so bad that even Vince could never forgive him, which basically lends credence to the whole Steph thing.

wait, I thought randy savage died IRL several years ago.

He did, but they just put him in the Hall of Fame a year or so ago, which was the first time they'd really acknowledged him in a very, very long time.
 

VoxPop

Member
wait, I thought randy savage died IRL several years ago.

I meant even being mentioned or acknowledged on TV by WWE. They have a Hall of Fame and he should have been in there a long time ago but they didn't even acknowledge his existence.
 

Krejlooc

Banned
well this was an interesting discussion, sounds like pretty much the same thing as dragonball Z or soap operas, which I guess is why it got so popular. What is the normal target audience for wrestling? 12-15 year olds, I imagine?
 

Foffy

Banned
Like much of life, actually. Much of it is fake and nonsense, but buy into the illusion, we get caught in it and take it for real.
 

RiccochetJ

Gold Member
well this was an interesting discussion, sounds like pretty much the same thing as dragonball Z or soap operas, which I guess is why it got so popular. What is the normal target audience for wrestling? 12-15 year olds, I imagine?

You're definitely trolling.
 

VoxPop

Member
well this was an interesting discussion, sounds like pretty much the same thing as dragonball Z or soap operas, which I guess is why it got so popular. What is the normal target audience for wrestling? 12-15 year olds, I imagine?

10-12 these days or whatever PG is

everyone is mostly riding the nostalgia train from when wrestling was at its height of popularity (96-99)
 
well this was an interesting discussion, sounds like pretty much the same thing as dragonball Z or soap operas, which I guess is why it got so popular. What is the normal target audience for wrestling? 12-15 year olds, I imagine?

When the Attitude Era happened in the late 90s is skewed more 18-24 as content got more violent/sexy/edgy.

In the last few years there's been a pretty big resurgence in interest in wrestling from lapsed fans so while the content tends to lean more PG-13 friendly the audience is kind of all over the place.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
well this was an interesting discussion, sounds like pretty much the same thing as dragonball Z or soap operas, which I guess is why it got so popular. What is the normal target audience for wrestling? 12-15 year olds, I imagine?

The actual demographic for WWE is old at 35+, though the product since Linda McMahon's failed Senate campaigns/trying to land a new toy deal after Benoit has been largely family friendly, aiming for a PG rating.

The product at the height was aiming for 14-25, had buckets of blood, obscenity, risque storylines, and sky high toy sales as well. It was a big cultural phenomenon between 1996-2002. Wrestling is cyclical though and every fifteen-twenty years or so sees another boom period. Just need the right stars or the right market.
 
well this was an interesting discussion, sounds like pretty much the same thing as dragonball Z or soap operas, which I guess is why it got so popular. What is the normal target audience for wrestling? 12-15 year olds, I imagine?

Depends on the company and the era. WWF/E, both in the 80s and currently try to sell themselves as family entertainment, though the late 90s/early 2000s was instead much more focused on the 18-34 year old demos.
 

Northeastmonk

Gold Member
I was into wrestling when Jake the Snake, Bret Hart, Sting, The Undertaker, Hulk Hogan, and Randy Savage were all big.

I enjoyed the games and I'd tune in every other night. Mick Foley and The Undertaker were some of my favorites.

I guess I stopped watching when I thought everyone left and no one around me was paying attention. Especially when it went from the WWF to the WWE.

Roman Reigns is very new to me. I got back in touch with it for a bit and he's beating on everyone. Cena is also a big name.
 
I don't even know if you think I'm trolling because I'm asking things which are so obviously true, or asking things which are so obviously false. As in, with regard to the question about the rock, is the answer "duh, of course" or "duh, of course not"?

I thought your question was pretty reasonable given that while The Rock is one of the most popular wrestlers ever he got popular by being a charismatic asshole on TV.

FYO: In the business a "bad guy" is known as a heel. A good guy is known as a face (short for babyface).
 

Seraphis Cain

bad gameplay lol
Like, Krejlooc, your DBZ comparison was pretty on-point. Wrestling and DBZ both generally target the same exact age demographics these days.
 

Krejlooc

Banned
10-12 these days or whatever PG is

everyone is mostly riding the nostalgia train from when wrestling was at its height of popularity (96-99)

When the Attitude Era happened in the late 90s is skewed more 18-24 as content got more violent/sexy/edgy.

In the last few years there's been a pretty big resurgence in interest in wrestling from lapsed fans so while the content tends to lean more PG-13 friendly the audience is kind of all over the place.

The actual demographic for WWE is old at 35+, though the product since Linda McMahon's failed Senate campaigns/trying to land a new toy deal after Benoit has been largely family friendly, aiming for a PG rating.

The product at the height was aiming for 14-25, had buckets of blood, obscenity, risque storylines, and sky high toy sales as well. It was a big cultural phenomenon between 1996-2002. Wrestling is cyclical though and every fifteen-twenty years or so sees another boom period. Just need the right stars or the right market.

So funny to mention a 30 year old nostalgia basked market. That market basically always exists and makes sense if the glory days of wrestling were 20 years ago. In marketing, this works because 30 year olds were 10-15 years old 20 years prior, which makes them the prime market for nostalgia, because they were old enough to engage in the types of media they actually enjoyed (as opposed to just whatever is age appropriate for children, like sesame street) but not quite old enough to spend their time going to parties and things of that sort.

You see this every decade - in the 70's they had happy days about the 50's, in the 80's the had the wonder years about the 60's, in the 90's they had that 70's show.

It would make sense for there to be a 30 year old nostalgia based market considering wrestling was so big at the end of the 90's. It also why Dragonball is suddenly coming back again world-wide.
 
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