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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

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But Kaz doesn't decide to take Skull Face down out of revenge, but to stop him from being a "conquering victor". Does Kaz ever learn that Skull Face was behind the MSF attack? I assume so because V Snake and Kaz shoot his limbs, but I don't remember when they piece it together.

The target of their revenge is Huey and they stumble into Skully's plan, don't they?
 
Alienous said:
But Kaz doesn't decide to take Skull Face down out of revenge, but to stop him from being a "conquering victor". Does Kaz ever learn that Skull Face was behind the MSF attack? I assume so because V Snake and Kaz shoot his limbs, but I don't remember when they piece it together.

The target of their revenge is Huey and they stumble into Skully's plan, don't they?
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This is a good question. I can't recall offhand the exact chain of events that leads them to Skull Face in particular.

EDIT: Trying to remember how much they knew about Skull Face in GZ. They clearly hear his interrogation tapes, but I'm not sure they put 2 and 2 together.
 
Alienous said:
But Kaz doesn't decide to take Skull Face down out of revenge, but to stop him from being a "conquering victor". Does Kaz ever learn that Skull Face was behind the MSF attack? I assume so because V Snake and Kaz shoot his limbs, but I don't remember when they piece it together.

The target of their revenge is Huey and they stumble into Skully's plan, don't they?
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I think after the Huey mission, they say it was probably Skullface and not Zero but don't explain how they know or why.
 
Neiteio said:
Yeah, when the Diamond Dogs are all staring up at Metal Gear Sally's glorious machine gun cock.

Venom turns around and looks back and Skull Face is there putting on his hat and looking at him.

The (heavy-handed, but imo effective) symbolism is they've had their revenge, but it hasn't brought them peace.

Game has an anti-revenge message.
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skullface should have just kept showing up all throughout chapter 2 just to mess with venom
 
thebigmachine said:
In the Zero and Kaz tape is still sounded to me like Kaz still hated him for the attack. I never felt Kaz knew the truth.
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Here's my temporary take until we figure this out:

Kaz knows that Skull Face works for Zero. So even though Zero said in the tape that Skull Face went rogue (albeit he didn't identify him by name), Kaz might still blame Zero for what happened. Like they say: The shit falls from the top of the tree.

Jintor said:
skullface should have just kept showing up all throughout chapter 2 just to mess with venom
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Yeah, that would've been awesome, especially if they worked it into gameplay, i.e. you open the shower stall and Skull Face is inside.
 
I feel like the hallucination angle was really undercooked in this game. If you tally it all up, the only hallucinations in the game are the whale, Volgin's Furicorn, Paz, and those couple of seconds of Skull Face on Mother Base.

Meanwhile, stuff that could easily have been written as hallucinations, like Sahelanthropus being an '80s Jehuty with a machine gun robo-dick and a fire sword that makes forehead-horn-shaped spikes erupt from the ground, or half the stuff that happened in the hospital, are played perfectly straight. Oh boy, Mantis is making Big Boss hallucinate an unkillable spectre from his past! Nope, it's actually Volgin's actual reanimated corpse standing up and walking around absorbing bullets. Oh jeez, look at these weird Skulls walking all crazy and levitating rocks and pulling guns out of thin air! Nope, parasites, son.
 
matrix-cat said:
I feel like the hallucination angle was really undercooked in this game. If you tally it all up, the only hallucinations in the game are the whale, Volgin's Furicorn, Paz, and those couple of seconds of Skull Face on Mother Base.

Meanwhile, stuff that could easily have been written as hallucinations, like Sahelanthropus being an '80s Jehuty with a machine gun robo-dick and a fire sword that makes forehead-horn-shaped spikes erupt from the ground, or half the stuff that happened in the hospital, are played perfectly straight. Oh boy, Mantis is making Big Boss hallucinate an unkillable spectre from his past! Nope, it's actually Volgin's actual reanimated corpse standing up and walking around absorbing bullets. Oh jeez, look at these weird Skulls walking all crazy and levitating rocks and pulling guns out of thin air! Nope, parasites, son.
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And keep in mind that Volgin's furicorn and the whale are more likely the product of Mantis fuckery, and only Paz and Skull Face on MB are hallucinations by Venom alone.
 
Neiteio said:
Yeah, that would've been awesome, especially if they worked it into gameplay, i.e. you open the shower stall and Skull Face is inside.
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Quite doing that "in your face ass" pose in the ACC only to turn around with Skull Face's face giving you a wide smile. :D
 
ElFly said:
And keep in mind that Volgin's furicorn and the whale are more likely the product of Mantis fuckery, and only Paz and Skull Face on MB are hallucinations by Venom alone.
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This is just my interpretation for the whale and unicorn, but I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. In other words, there is indeed destructive stuff going on — a helicopter goes down in flames, etc — but the imagery of the whale and unicorn is conjured up by Venom's mind.

Also, like I said, the entire Man on Fire scene in the side ops where you retrieve his body is most certainly a hallucination. The game repeatedly establishes in the tapes that the Man on Fire needs Mantis in order to move. But Mantis is focused on Eli back in Seychelles during that scene. There was nothing present to bring MoF to life. It was Venom seeing things since he expected a fight. This is consistent with the Man on Fire freezing when Mantis briefly focuses on Shaboni instead, and later when Mantis focuses on Eli.

No Mantis, no Man on Fire. Like a cord pulled from its socket.
 
Noisepurge said:
am i rude for thinking everytime Codetalker used a LOT of these fancy words that "ain't no way a non english speaker would even know these words let alone pronounce them this well!"
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I actually really appreciate the fact Code Talker wasn't a stereotypical Native American character.
 
JayEH said:
He kinda was since he came up with this magic parasite bullshit.
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I mean, yeah, he has a "wise man" quality to him and a few lines about harmony with nature, but all in all he plays the role of a brilliant biotech scientist responsible for some of the most complicated sci-fi stuff in the series. They didn't just have him smoke a peace pipe with Snake (although, um, well, I guess they did have that, too... but still).
 
Alienous said:
The parasites are a terrible McGuffin.

They kill.
The zombify.
They give superpowers (a collection of very distinct ones, like controlling bees and invisibility).
They allowed humans to speak in the first place.
They allow the should-be-dead to not be.
They somehow allow for nuke mass production.


There's no logic to them, they just let the writer explain whatever nonsense.
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Aside from the humans speaking and nuke ones, 100% the same shit goes with nanomachines. They even added extra daftness like telepathy.

It's always been the same. For 10+ years. And people went just as batshit over MGS2.

PS that's not the definition of MacGuffin
 
Sayad said:
Quite doing that "in your face ass" pose in the ACC only to turn around with Skull Face's face giving you a wide smile. :D
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You don't have to imagine it.

tumblr_nvebusYiS71qlwt1bo1_1280.jpg
 
Well, finally saw the whole thing for myself after being spoiled of practically everything. I'm actually fairly satisfied with what's there, even though some of it is weirdly paced (and directed, like that car ride. Who thought 2~3 minutes of awkward silence and Big Boss spacing out made for compelling drama?).
It's the missing stuff that truly bothers me. At least Eli's storyline should've gotten proper closure (yeah, I know about the CE video but come on). A final boss battle against Liquid in a Metal Gear would have at least felt climatic and more in line with previous games' finales than just replaying the first mission with some different cutscenes.

I also wish some of those tapes were actual cutscenes. at least the more important ones since the way it was done made them feel disjointed from the main game. Stuff like Huey's and Eli's interrogations for example should've definetely been cutscenes. Leave the tapes for the more long winded infodumps and other quirky stuff like Kaz's burgers.

So yeah, basically, I just wish KojiPro had time to finish the game properly. Still, when my biggest complaint about a game basically boils down to "I wish there was even more stuff" after like 120 hours of playtime, then I can't say I'm unsatisfied by the experience. Most fun I've had with a game this year, would buy DLC for an actual conclusion.
 
Alienous said:
The parasites are a terrible McGuffin.

They kill.
The zombify.
They give superpowers (a collection of very distinct ones, like controlling bees and invisibility).
They allowed humans to speak in the first place.
They allow the should-be-dead to not be.
They somehow allow for nuke mass production.


There's no logic to them, they just let the writer explain whatever nonsense.
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And there's never a mention about them ever again...

BreezyLimbo said:
Ok what the fuck is up with Pequod. He clearly dies in the Metal Archaea mission, but then he's back 5 minutes later?
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Pequod is the true success of Les Enfates.
 
BreezyLimbo said:
Ok what the fuck is up with Pequod. He clearly dies in the Metal Archaea mission, but then he's back 5 minutes later?
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Pequod is just the callsign for any helicopter carrying Venom; not the name of the pilot. The voice clip reuse is just something you're supposed to ignore.
 
Golnei said:
Pequod is just the callsign for any helicopter carrying Venom; not the name of the pilot. The voice clip reuse is just something you're supposed to ignore.
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I ain't ignoring that shit. They can explain fucking Huey being a dick, but I'm supposed to believe Pequod has like 20 clones?

Nah, fuck this game.
 
How can there be any debate over whose bones are in Venom? It is as obvious as a plot detail comes. Like 2+2 obvious.

We see Paz explode, we know the bomb is inside of her, we see the medic take the full force of the explosion and shrapnel in the face as he dives in front of Big Boss. She is close to them, close enough that the explosion causes the helicopter to crash. Half of Paz's body would be expelled towards the heli with the shrapnel. There it is, right there.

No reason to think the crash would turn Chico or the other pilot into hundreds of tiny shards of bone. Blunt force crashes don't do that. But having a bomb implanted inside you? That's exactly what that would do. The shard in Venom's head is probably a charred piece of Paz's hip or some such.
 
Griss said:
How can there be any debate over whose bones are in Venom? It is as obvious as a plot detail comes. Like 2+2 obvious.

We see Paz explode, we know the bomb is inside of her, we see the medic take the full force of the explosion and shrapnel in the face as he dives in front of Big Boss. She is close to them, close enough that the explosion causes the helicopter to crash. Half of Paz's body would be expelled towards the heli with the shrapnel. There it is, right there.

No reason to think the crash would turn Chico or the other pilot into hundreds of tiny shards of bone. Blunt force crashes don't do that. But having a bomb implanted inside you? That's exactly what that would do. The shard in Venom's head is probably a charred piece of Paz's hip or some such.
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I like the idea that the bones of Paz are in him, from a symbolic standpoint. But it wasn't just a bomb that hit him. He also was standing in front of the door when the enemy chopper crashed into them. He might have fragments of the pilots in him instead. Their bodies smash straight into his (note the windshield bearing down on him with the pilots trying to shield themselves inside).

In other words, who knows.
 
Am I the only one here* who has refused to read up on Mission 51? I don't want to give Kojima the satisfaction of going outside the medium to learn the conclusion to the game when he couldn't be bothered / was unable in 5 years to get the damn thing finished. I feel like over time it might fool me that the story was in fact complete and I'd forget how utterly disappointed I was.

*I know I'm not the only one, but I'd like to hear from others

EmCeeGramr said:
when you play the man who sold the world the credits say guest starring paz because it's her bones in him
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lol

Neiteio said:
I like the idea that the bones of Paz are in him, from a symbolic standpoint. But it wasn't just a bomb that hit him. He also was standing in front of the door when the enemy chopper crashed into them. He might have fragments of the pilots in him instead.

In other words, who knows.
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No, not 'in other words who knows'. Read my comment. One person was disintegrated by a bomb. Venom has tiny bone shards throughout his whole body, as if a human had been disintegrated and had their bone matter propelled at him at high speed. It is impossible for the vast majority of them to be anyone other than Paz's. If Venom's collision with the pilot had been such that the pilot disintegrated, so would Venom. He didn't, because it didn't happen.
 
Scott32020 said:
Just finished Mission 45 - from what I found online it looks like I need to fully develop Mother Base to unlock Mission 46?
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No. You just need to complete a certain amount of it (maybe, I had 3/4 for all of the bases except for Combat which I had 2/4 and the main base which I had 4/4).

I didn't have it unlocked until I completed a few more main missions and a few more side-ops. I probably had around 65 side-ops completes and I had at least 42 of the main missions completed.
 
Griss said:
Am I the only one here* who has refused to read up on Mission 51? I don't want to give Kojima the satisfaction of going outside the medium to learn the conclusion to the game when he couldn't be bothered / was unable in 5 years to get the damn thing finished. I feel like over time it might fool me that the story was in fact complete and I'd forget how utterly disappointed I was.

*I know I'm not the only one, but I'd like to hear from others
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M51 doesn't really add much. I'd still love to play it, though.
 
Griss said:
No, not 'in other words who knows'. Read my comment. One person was disintegrated by a bomb. Venom has bone shards throughout his whole body. It is impossible for the vast majority of them to be anyone other than Paz's.
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Ha, you come off so stern. I did read your comment. There's no proof whose bones they are. You have Paz exploding. And you have two chopper pilots smashing into the medic. You have multiple bodies flying around as the chopper is crashed up like a tin can. It could be anything.

I like to think it's Paz, though. So if I had to choose, that'd be it. Just saying it's not certain.

...and it really doesn't matter when you think about it.
 
Neiteio said:
M51 doesn't really add much. I'd still love to play it, though.
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It adds a much needed final boss fight, and a neat throwback to MGS1. And before anyone says it, no I don't think it was excluded as part of Kojima's "greater message about life after revenge lacking meaning" or whatever.
 
If only Huey was a MGO character.

He could run around shouting "I thought it was REAL" and saying "It was suicide" when he kills someone.
 
akidnamededdy said:
It adds a much needed final boss fight, and a neat throwback to MGS1. And before anyone says it, no I don't think it was excluded as part of Kojima's "greater message about life after revenge lacking meaning" or whatever.
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I don't think anyone's saying M51 was an intentional omission. They clearly started work on it and wanted to finish it. Cutscenes were 30% done according to the documentary.
 
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