Multiple fatalities reported at Umpqua Community College shooting in Oregon

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Hoje0308 said:
I'm seeing conflicting reports about whether or not this was a gun free school or one that allowed concealed carry. Really sick of seeing the "this wouldn't happen if we had more guns" argument on my feed, so would like to know if I can shut down the more disgusting comments with a real life scenario.
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From what I can tell the school policy allowed CCW on campus.
 
fuck man...this is terrible news. The name of the college didn't ring a bell which was weird since I lived in OR for so many years. Just looked up and it's in Southern OR.

such shitty news :( My heart goes to those who lost their loved ones. US is such a weird country with their priorities all messed up. But like that one person said a while ago, once it was decided no major changes to gun control would take place after those kids died in that famous incident, it meant nothing would happen period no matter what other unfortunate incidents such as this follows.
 
Man, I'm all for outlawing guns but I really doubt it would get us very far.. Ans it seems noone is interested to get at the root of the issue. I don't think these kids are "snapping", I think they've been thinking and fantasizing about this stuff for some time.. Besides, with 3d printers and other developing technologies I dnt think banning guns is going to do all that much..
 
diffusionx said:
Why not? Is America just a more violent place than Australia?

I just get annoyed at the implications of posts like these, which is that these gun rampages are just like, a force of nature and nothing can be done about them so the best you can do is hope not to get caught in the next one.
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Even if we pass an amendment (which won't happen anytime soon) we still don't have the benefit of being an island country. The effort it takes to get guns over your borders increases the price of said guns to a level that ordinary criminals are unwilling to pay. Meanwhile, our awful War on Drugs has only proven that America's borders are as porous as Swiss cheese. But good luck addressing that issue without someone suggesting that we need to build a giant fucking wall for no reason whatsoever.
 
Hoje0308 said:
Even if we pass an amendment (which won't happen anytime soon) we still don't have the benefit of being an island country. The effort it takes to get guns over your borders increases the price of said guns to a level that ordinary criminals are unwilling to pay. Meanwhile, our awful War on Drugs has only proven that America's borders are as porous as Swiss cheese. But good luck addressing that issue without someone suggesting that we need to build a giant fucking wall for no reason whatsoever.
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We're the ones sending guns over the border though...
 
Has anyone blamed marijuana yet? Because today was when it became legal in the state. I can see all those conservatives going on and on about marijuana making people violent or some stupid shit.
 
DoktorEvil said:
Why are you posting garbage ramblings? This is just as bad as the 4chan thread.
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I posted it because these ramblings and those like it make me almost as angry as the Sandy Hook shootings did. They're revolting and served as a call to action for me. I'm not a Mom (a father), but Mom's Demand Action is a great group to support if you're interested.
 
Geo said:
The reason why the United States is so enthralled with keeping gun ownership of course stems back to issues of masculinity. Yes, masculinity, the internal conflict of American men since mainly the late 19th century. Men in America have constantly perceived masculinity as in decline. Masculinity, the rugged individual man as they say, is a disappearing ideal. Masculinity is in crisis right now, as it has been for well over a hundred years.

Guns are a way for many American men to be "masculine" again. In a society that seems to be increasingly less and less "masculine", this is important to them. Interesting parallels can be drawn to other aspects of American culture, such as advocacy for maintaining violence in football, which also claims lives and results in life-altering damage to the body (on a much smaller scale of course).

Gun ownership is thus deeper than just a visible societal problem. Its roots are much deeper. Guns correlate directly to issues of identity in relation to masculinity. Identity, how you perceive oneself and how you believe others perceive you. Identity as a man in America. Until this identity crisis is solved, mass change (bans on firearms) will never occur.

It's going to be awhile.
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Is this a serious post?
 
mackattk said:
Apparently it allowed concealed carry for a short time then went back to gun free.
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Jesus, more fuel for the fire.

B-Dubs said:
We're the ones sending guns over the border though...
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Yes, but if there were a market for guns the cartels would be more than happy to fill the orders. They'd be selling us back our own shit, but again, the effort taken to do so is minimized now that they have a well established infrastructure for smuggling drugs and people.
 
What pisses me off the most about this outside of innocent people being killed is this one undeniable fact.

If the shooter had been middle eastern, we'd spend billions on "making sure it never happened again" and would label this a terrorist attack on American soil. We'd fly to UN and have all kinds of talks with world leaders, we'd see all kinds of not so thinly veiled racist retort from the right wing, we'd see calls for the death of "their" loved ones, etc.

But if an American does it? White especially? Oh well that's an acceptable loss for the continuation of the 2nd amendment. This is totally a mental illness thing but don't you dare actually spend mah tax money on getting people free mental illness healthcare!!!
 
RIP to the victims

Fuck this. This can't keep happening. Going on Twitter the first tweet I see under #UCCShooting is " Every establishment with gun free zones should be held responsible when this happens" Like wtf? There are millions of these idiots and there are tons of them in our government. We shouldn't even entertain these people yet here they are in our Congress having a say in our laws. FUCK!
 
Hoje0308 said:
Even if we pass an amendment (which won't happen anytime soon) we still don't have the benefit of being an island country. The effort it takes to get guns over your borders increases the price of said guns to a level that ordinary criminals are unwilling to pay. Meanwhile, our awful War on Drugs has only proven that America's borders are as porous as Swiss cheese. But good luck addressing that issue without someone suggesting that we need to build a giant fucking wall for no reason whatsoever.
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Less guns is better than what we have now. Also guns aren't drugs, manufacturing them is different. Also - and this is just me - I have to assume the lack of an addiction factor helps here.
 
nilbog21 said:
Man, I'm all for outlawing guns but I really doubt it would get us very far.. Ans it seems noone is interested to get at the root of the issue. I don't think these kids are "snapping", I think they've been thinking and fantasizing about this stuff for some time.. Besides, with 3d printers and other developing technologies I dnt think banning guns is going to do all that much..
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So another case of "Can't fix the problem completely so there is no reason to do anything. Just pray and hope you aren't in the wrong place at the wrong time."
 
Here's an interesting article from Vox.com with statistics on gun violence.

http://www.vox.com/2015/8/24/9183525/gun-violence-statistics

1. America has six times as many firearm homicides as Canada, and 15 times as many as Germany
gun%20homicides%20per%20capita.jpg
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7. States with tighter gun control laws have fewer gun-related deaths

gun%20control%20vs%20deaths.jpg
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Much more at the link.
 
Im American, we as voters are DIRECTLY reaponsable for ALL the mass shooting that take place. We possea the ability to atrip gun away from the public. But we choose not to. Reap what you sow.
 
Netherscourge said:
The problem is with the historical value of the constitution.

The majority of lawmakers believe we CAN'T give up the right to own guns because it'll weaken the "soul" of a piece of paper drawn up 228 years ago.

It has a "Bible Complex". Regardless if the whole purpose of that one amendment is now totally obsolete and detrimental to society in general, to alter one of the original amendments would seen as weakening the whole document. So these idiots blindly defend it's existence, even to their own doom.
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I would argue that the purpose of that amendment is not totally obsolete and detrimental to society. It's just that the way it is being interpreted today is utterly insane. This idea that America just has to have an unlimited quantity of guns and everybody should just get whatever they want and take it wherever and do whatever with it... it's very new. I don't think there was a time when the 2nd amendment was ever interpreted in this way.

Even in the Heller decision the SCOTUS said that the government can impose meaningful limits and regulation on gun ownership. They just basically said they can't ban them. And this is considered a fairly broad reading of the 2nd amendment. So a fairly broad reading of the amendment still cites the government's ability to regulate. But now I see people citing Heller as proof that the government can never do anything wrt guns. It's utterly insane.
 
It's obvious that modern life is too complex for the ownership of guns. It's going to keep getting worse. The problem is that the country isn't ready to take their problems seriously.

Look at how many Republicans are in the House... once that starts to dramatically change, the country might have the conscience to take the issue seriously.
 
PBY said:
Less guns is better than what we have now. Also guns aren't drugs, manufacturing them is different. Also - and this is just me - I have to assume the lack of an addiction factor helps here.
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Trust me, I agree with you that something has to be done. My argument is only that Australia isn't as analogous as some seem to think. It's easier for them to keep guns out now that they've been banned and the price to own one is prohibitive in a way that I don't think you'd see here.
 
Angelus Errare said:
What pisses me off the most about this outside of innocent people being killed is this one undeniable fact.

If the shooter had been middle eastern, we'd spend billions on "making sure it never happened again" and would label this a terrorist attack on American soil. We'd fly to UN and have all kinds of talks with world leaders, we'd see all kinds of not so thinly veiled racist retort from the right wing, we'd see calls for the death of "their" loved ones, etc.

But if an American does it? White especially? Oh well that's an acceptable loss for the continuation of the 2nd amendment. This is totally a mental illness thing but don't you dare actually spend mah tax money on getting people free mental illness healthcare!!!
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I saw that here on gaf during the Chattanooga shooting. As soon as we found out that the shooter was Muslim we had posters going "well that ends the gun control debate!" I was dumbfounded reading that.
 
How our government has the audacity to continue to let innocent American citizens be massacred is truly dumbfounding.

Don't let the gun loonies deter you. Implement more gun checks, or just ban them outright please.
 
Hoje0308 said:
Trust me, I agree with you that something has to be done. My argument is only that Australia isn't as analogous as some seem to think. It's easier for them to keep guns out now that they've been banned and the price to own one is prohibitive in a way that I don't think you'd see here.
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Sure. I do think making it illegal immediately cuts out most hobbyists and "I just feel safer with guns" people.
 
nilbog21 said:
Man, I'm all for outlawing guns but I really doubt it would get us very far.. Ans it seems noone is interested to get at the root of the issue. I don't think these kids are "snapping", I think they've been thinking and fantasizing about this stuff for some time.. Besides, with 3d printers and other developing technologies I dnt think banning guns is going to do all that much..
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Someone with homicidal fantasies can still eventually change their mind, especially when they don't have immediate access to a gun
 
Geo said:
The reason why the United States is so enthralled with keeping gun ownership of course stems back to issues of masculinity.

>snip<

Until this identity crisis is solved, mass change (bans on firearms) will never occur.

It's going to be awhile.
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This is literally "but patriarchy" in a thread about a mass shooting.

I'm pretty sure that's a new one, even for GAF.
 
Geo said:
The reason why the United States is so enthralled with keeping gun ownership of course stems back to issues of masculinity. Yes, masculinity, the internal conflict of American men since mainly the late 19th century. Men in America have constantly perceived masculinity as in decline. Masculinity, the rugged individual man as they say, is a disappearing ideal. Masculinity is in crisis right now, as it has been for well over a hundred years.

Guns are a way for many American men to be "masculine" again. In a society that seems to be increasingly less and less "masculine", this is important to them. Interesting parallels can be drawn to other aspects of American culture, such as advocacy for maintaining violence in football, which also claims lives and results in life-altering damage to the body (on a much smaller scale of course).

Gun ownership is thus deeper than just a visible societal problem. Its roots are much deeper. Guns correlate directly to issues of identity in relation to masculinity. Identity, how you perceive oneself and how you believe others perceive you. Identity as a man in America. Until this identity crisis is solved, mass change (bans on firearms) will never occur.

It's going to be awhile.
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oh boy now u done it. this should be fun.

(i agree with you btw)
 
A small group of Islamic terrorists attack us, and there are calls by the right wing to not let any Muslims into our country and even kick those that are already here out.

Hundreds of thousands of crimes involving guns happen every year in this country. Hundreds of thousands. Confiscate them. Get them out of the country.
 
diffusionx said:
I would argue that the purpose of that amendment is not totally obsolete and detrimental to society. It's just that the way it is being interpreted today is utterly insane. This idea that America just has to have an unlimited quantity of guns and everybody should just get whatever they want and take it wherever and do whatever with it... it's very new. I don't think there was a time when the 2nd amendment was ever interpreted in this way.
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Of course it's not obsolete. It still has some core values that make sense and that will keep making sense in a humanitarian point of view for the foreseeable future.

The second amendment is not one of them.
 
Angelus Errare said:
What pisses me off the most about this outside of innocent people being killed is this one undeniable fact.

If the shooter had been middle eastern, we'd spend billions on "making sure it never happened again" and would label this a terrorist attack on American soil. We'd fly to UN and have all kinds of talks with world leaders, we'd see all kinds of not so thinly veiled racist retort from the right wing, we'd see calls for the death of "their" loved ones, etc.

But if an American does it? White especially? Oh well that's an acceptable loss for the continuation of the 2nd amendment. This is totally a mental illness thing but don't you dare actually spend mah tax money on getting people free mental illness healthcare!!!
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So fucking true.
 
Randolph Freelander said:
A small group of Islamic terrorists attack us, and there are calls by the right wing to not let any Muslims into our country and even kick those that are already here out.

Hundreds of thousands of crimes involving guns happen every year in this country. Hundreds of thousands. Confiscate them. Get them out of the country.
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Well the NRA are putting money into the GOP's pockets.. I don't see any muslim/islamic terrorist groups doing that. Think about the bottom line!
 
Wait, which one is this again? Oh, it's a new one? Like as of today? Has there been another one since this one? Which one is this again?
 
Gun control isn't even a fucking debate anymore. Sandy Hook was when America decided "guns > dead kids", and it's probably the most disgusting moment from the US in the 21st century.
 
I don't want to link it but has it been discussed that (and this is unconfirmed and the thread has since been deleted) someone made a threat on 4chan last night and people egged the guy on to do it? It's since been deleted but its the internet and if its true thats really really fucked up.
 
Awful, awful news. My wife and I both work at UT Austin and there was a completely unrelated although sadly quite timely protest today about Campus Carry. They had some sort of forum on it last night to discuss how it will be implemented (I guess, I wasn't there). Terrified of it, frankly. This was the photo she posted at lunch:

12042626_10106749666186703_5889077331270383986_n.jpg
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besada said:
This is horrific, and it's a shame that I wanted to write "as usual" after that.

On the issue of gun control, I think there's plenty of room for reforming and increasing the control of firearms. I think there's very little chance of banning firearms -- such little chance that I don't think it's particularly worth discussing unless you can show some evidence of a groundswell of support that would lead to an amendment.

That said, gun control is entirely on the table. Most responsible gun owners already support stronger control measures, even though they are rejected and lobbied against by the NRA. The first step is to call on responsible gun owners to take their voice back from the NRA and to repudiate their extremist views on firearm ownership.

Beyond that, the focus should start with funding and rolling out an easy to use, national, required background check network. Close the loopholes that allow non-reporting. Levy serious fines for entities that don't fulfill their obligations to report, including mental health facilities, hospitals, gun stores, police departments, etc.

And if you're serious about doing something, let me direct you to a number of sites who would be happy to have your work and your money, to lobby on your behalf:

http://americansforresponsiblesolutions.org/
http://csgv.org/
http://everytown.org/
http://faithsagainstgunviolence.org/
http://smartgunlaws.org/
http://momsdemandaction.org/
http://www.vpc.org/
http://www.bradycampaign.org/

You should be able to find a group that fits you, unless you just don't support any sort of gun control at all. Funding and working for these groups may seem like beating your head against a wall, but it's more effective than continually having the same argument about banning guns, ad nauseam.
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excellent post. brady campaign pushes for technology that helps with gun control... I think that is a very important aspect of gun control... there will always be legal and political loopholes, technology encryption is a very immediate solution.
 
Novel Mike said:
I don't want to link it but has it been discussed that (and this is unconfirmed and the thread has since been deleted) someone made a threat on 4chan last night and people egged the guy on to do it? It's since been deleted but its the internet and if its true thats really really fucked up.
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4chan is basically a big 'who can make the crudest fucking comment' competition.

Nonsense posts are made every second, nonsense replies get posted every second. It's just an anonymous maelstrom of edgy 14 year olds.
 
Geo said:
The reason why the United States is so enthralled with keeping gun ownership of course stems back to issues of masculinity. Yes, masculinity, the internal conflict of American men since mainly the late 19th century. Men in America have constantly perceived masculinity as in decline. Masculinity, the rugged individual man as they say, is a disappearing ideal. Masculinity is in crisis right now, as it has been for well over a hundred years.

Guns are a way for many American men to be "masculine" again. In a society that seems to be increasingly less and less "masculine", this is important to them. Interesting parallels can be drawn to other aspects of American culture, such as advocacy for maintaining violence in football, which also claims lives and results in life-altering damage to the body (on a much smaller scale of course).

Gun ownership is thus deeper than just a visible societal problem. Its roots are much deeper. Guns correlate directly to issues of identity in relation to masculinity. Identity, how you perceive oneself and how you believe others perceive you. Identity as a man in America. Until this identity crisis is solved, mass change (bans on firearms) will never occur.

It's going to be awhile.
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Interesting aspect of gun advocacy to consider.

And people going "lol SJWs" over this post are being unnecessarily dismissive.
 
Geo said:
The reason why the United States is so enthralled with keeping gun ownership of course stems back to issues of masculinity. Yes, masculinity, the internal conflict of American men since mainly the late 19th century. Men in America have constantly perceived masculinity as in decline. Masculinity, the rugged individual man as they say, is a disappearing ideal. Masculinity is in crisis right now, as it has been for well over a hundred years.

Guns are a way for many American men to be "masculine" again. In a society that seems to be increasingly less and less "masculine", this is important to them. Interesting parallels can be drawn to other aspects of American culture, such as advocacy for maintaining violence in football, which also claims lives and results in life-altering damage to the body (on a much smaller scale of course).

Gun ownership is thus deeper than just a visible societal problem. Its roots are much deeper. Guns correlate directly to issues of identity in relation to masculinity. Identity, how you perceive oneself and how you believe others perceive you. Identity as a man in America. Until this identity crisis is solved, mass change (bans on firearms) will never occur.

It's going to be awhile.
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......I...actually agree with this. Huh.
 
Angelus Errare said:
What pisses me off the most about this outside of innocent people being killed is this one undeniable fact.

If the shooter had been middle eastern, we'd spend billions on "making sure it never happened again" and would label this a terrorist attack on American soil. We'd fly to UN and have all kinds of talks with world leaders, we'd see all kinds of not so thinly veiled racist retort from the right wing, we'd see calls for the death of "their" loved ones, etc.

But if an American does it? White especially? Oh well that's an acceptable loss for the continuation of the 2nd amendment. This is totally a mental illness thing but don't you dare actually spend mah tax money on getting people free mental illness healthcare!!!
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I mean, it kind of happened. I mean, the guy was born in Virginia sure, but he admitted his motive was Jihad and had apparently been emailing Anwar al-Awlaki.

None of the things you said would happen did happen. There was another shooting at the same base 5 years later even.
 
I'm willing to accept that going cold turkey on gun ownership won't happen, but we should at least try to get some actual regulation done on background checks, that last movie shooter clearly had a very tenuous mental health history but he was able to legally purchase a gun without issue, I wouldn't be surprised if that ended up being the same case here.
 
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