This is more or less the final impression I'll have of V as well. The concepts that he was trying to introduce were really interesting (how many games look into post-colonial theory and the cultural effects of globalisation?) but nothing was well-integrated, themes were either touched on in a shallow manner or absent entirely (RACE as a central motif only makes sense if it refers to the medic magically becoming white) and even more conventional dramatic devices like the hallucinations, illusions and the concept of an unreliable narrator were barely explored.
SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
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This is more or less the final impression I'll have of V as well. The concepts that he was trying to introduce were really interesting (how many games look into post-colonial theory and the cultural effects of globalisation?) but nothing was well-integrated, themes were either touched on in a shallow manner or absent entirely (RACE as a central motif only makes sense if it refers to the medic magically becoming white) and even more conventional dramatic devices like the hallucinations, illusions and the concept of an unreliable narrator were barely explored.
razzmahtazz
Member
Reading through this again and that thread about MGSV is the new Far Cry 2, triggers my arm-chair game developer.
Going with the Identity issues and Hallucinations, they could have used the Malaria system from FC2 for the Hallucinations. Hallucinations would randomly activate in the middle of missions and ruin your progress and you need to get back to base to be treated by Ocelot.
BUT, Hallucinations help out when you are wandering alone in the open world. Changing the landscape to vague simalacrums of MGS3. Jungles of Russia for Jungles of Africa, Deserts of Russia for Deserts of Afghanistan, and Motherbase serves as whatever facility you infiltrated in MGS3. It would feed the need for exploring the open world as you search for these simulacra to relive/replay the unsure memories MGS3 events and boss battles. While exploring this "other world" you battle through all the people you "kill" in the game further reinforcing the stealth approach as king, making it harder to get to those memories the more you stray from the legend of BB as a stealthy soldier.
Hnnnnng. so much potential.
Mexican Sting
Member
PARASITES
Obviously, if Kojima's $336m thirteen year plan was realised, MGSV Chapters 1 through to 4 would have been MGSV, while Chapter V would have been released standalone as MGS5.
Also, check out the look ocelot gives at 3:42. He's taking about venom.
https://youtu.be/16_FH6T_T9o
https://youtu.be/16_FH6T_T9o
1. Just go with it
2. He's most likely wearing a mask like Kojima did when he first revealed TPP
3. He lives to troll
4. Idk but I hope Fukushima comes back to metal gear
brianmcdoogle
Member
Parasites.
Nintendoga
Member
Serious answer? Probably a little nod to the twist with Venom Snake and "V has come to".
BiGBoSSMk23
A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
Kojima's a coward.
He sends the real big boss to do the real villainous shit some place else, and we stay with mcnormal chillcelot spreading messages of goodness and rainbows everywhere.
The story is such a scatterbrained mess too. There's no build up to a climax anywhere in this game. It's fucking abysmally paced. And the best shit is saved for audio recordings? Fucking really?
The truth tapes sound like something that should have been the beginning/intro in cutscene form. Fuck the "twist". What's the point of that even? The interesting shit is between Snake and his clones, not that constant "phantom this phantom that" symbolic babble bullshit. It's his wretched legacy, his perversion of the Joy's future. But that's absent or was cut from the game lol... Fuck off Kojima.
There's no character development anywhere, save for Huey, barely. And what a dumb ass psycho he was.
Quiet was just some random bitch that was loyal to the penis, rather than the mission, served no fucking purpose...
Turns out Skull Face pampered Big Boss through everything he "accomplished" in his glory days. Fucks sake...
What a goddamned mess. I can't believe I've been a fan of these series for so long, waiting for that brilliance to become fully realized with more capable hardware. And this fucking hack squanders everything salvageable after MGS4.
He sends the real big boss to do the real villainous shit some place else, and we stay with mcnormal chillcelot spreading messages of goodness and rainbows everywhere.
The story is such a scatterbrained mess too. There's no build up to a climax anywhere in this game. It's fucking abysmally paced. And the best shit is saved for audio recordings? Fucking really?
The truth tapes sound like something that should have been the beginning/intro in cutscene form. Fuck the "twist". What's the point of that even? The interesting shit is between Snake and his clones, not that constant "phantom this phantom that" symbolic babble bullshit. It's his wretched legacy, his perversion of the Joy's future. But that's absent or was cut from the game lol... Fuck off Kojima.
There's no character development anywhere, save for Huey, barely. And what a dumb ass psycho he was.
Quiet was just some random bitch that was loyal to the penis, rather than the mission, served no fucking purpose...
Turns out Skull Face pampered Big Boss through everything he "accomplished" in his glory days. Fucks sake...
What a goddamned mess. I can't believe I've been a fan of these series for so long, waiting for that brilliance to become fully realized with more capable hardware. And this fucking hack squanders everything salvageable after MGS4.
I'm just going to go with the mask stuff because it makes the most sense and with a story with amazing plastic surgerythst makes someone look identical to another and hypnosis, I don't think it's far fetched.
BiGBoSSMk23
A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
Isn't Fukushima dead? Yakuza related thing?
Maybe it's just some random rumor.
That guy was the real golden goose, not kojima.
The yakuza thing is a joke.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Just go with it?
No. I'm genuinely interested here and does bother me a lot. Why-oh-why did the medic have Big Boss' voice in both GZ and in TPP?
Initially I liked the twist but the more days pass by the more I realize I'm not a fan. Way to cheapen us out of some quality Big Boss character development instead of this nobody doppelgänger. I don't care about Venom's story. I wanted to see Big Boss.
And no. The changer from Hayter to Sutherland wasn't needed.
I mean there's no way to explain so you just have to accept it lol.
Spittin truth
should have been the tagline on the TPP cover.
Hellwarden
Member
So, I think I heard the most depressing defense on why Ocelot is the most boring bland nothing character in this game.
It's because it's the first time we've ever seen him not manipulating anyone, or planning to betray anyone. So the Ocelot in literally every other game isn't the real Ocelot. The Ocelot you've seen up to now has always been an act, basically almost all of him. The real Ocelot is apparently perfectly comfortable just staying on the base, doing nothing, following orders, being a janitor. Being nothing.
The Ocelot you liked never existed.
It's because it's the first time we've ever seen him not manipulating anyone, or planning to betray anyone. So the Ocelot in literally every other game isn't the real Ocelot. The Ocelot you've seen up to now has always been an act, basically almost all of him. The real Ocelot is apparently perfectly comfortable just staying on the base, doing nothing, following orders, being a janitor. Being nothing.
The Ocelot you liked never existed.
Berserker976
Member
Kojima shouldn't be allowed to write his games. It isn't his forte.
MGS4, PW and MGSV are what happen when bad ideas can't be vetoed.
He's a game director. Quiet is what results when Kojima advises Shinkawa on character design, and that guy has the deciding hand in the story.
I feel like you could throw a stone in a room of writers and hit someone who would have done MGSV more justice.
Nintendoga
Member
B-But YOU are Big Boss and uh.....Phantom Pain!
And there might be some hidden story content behind the online required literally impossible to do disable all nukes mechanic. Kojima's brilliance knows no bounds.
Unknown One
Member
Kojima is humanist towards clones.
Valkyri von Thanatos
Member
I hate to defend the stupidness of it all since Big Boss even has both eyes working, bit at least the mask tech actually works out. If we don't assume the Raikov mask was at least something as good as this theoretical Ishmael mask, then how did he get anywhere with it? Why would Volgin need his specially developed groping identification technique?
BTW, I hate to say it, but the mask even was capable of blinking (around the :57 second mark). Still doesn't excuse the working eye though. Maybe that's another revelation this game gives us, Big Boss got the most advanced prosthesis compared to Venom, a cybernetic eye! And he just kept it hidden in order to surprise his enemies if need be. If he showed it off to Solid in MG2 though, Solid probably just went "eh, whatever, 'what a twist'" and torched BB shortly thereafter.
I prefer the "hypnosis theory" though. Don't know if it is a widely held belief or anything, but Ishmael's visage probably looks more like BB to the other observers in the hospital scene, still bandaged and disguised, but screwed up eye, beard, the works. It's clear looking back that Venom suffered from hallucinations when looking at the mirror the doctor held up. He sees BB's as his "original face", briefly sees the "new face", and then sees BB's again. In that version, Venom then appears to not have his face changed, except he still sees his original face in the mirror, implying the plastic surgery has taken place.
I'm not at all suggesting that only Venom saw himself as Big Boss and everyone else saw the player's custom avatar, that just doesn't work at all for a number of reasons. What I am saying though is his perspective is obviously unreliable, also shown by his hallucinations looking at the mirror at the end of the game. I believe the best explanation is that BB was "hypnotically disguised" to Venom. He couldn't see underneath the bandages so to speak, even if technically he should have seen a beard, he didn't because he was conditioned to be unable to identify a "double", at least until his programming was broken by one of his handlers (AKA Big Boss at the end).
Also (completely random MetaGearSolid.org comic):
Subscript on the Meta Gear website says:
"Don't knock it til you've tried it, Kaz. Here, take some."
Comic is a mostly defunct one that the site creator put up once in a while, still pretty funny most of the time, even though there aren't that many comics (27!). It's name is "La-Li-Lu-Le-Lol". The real treasure is the main content of the website which consists of Metal Gear critique and analysis.
If you've heard of the MGS2 VR theory, this guy did it. One of the better sources of Metal Gear analysis, the bulk of the material is from a while ago though, like around the time The Snake Soup was a bit more active with new articles.
Classic site (up to around 2010 with PW I think): !!!
Modern site (more blog like, some new stuff including a TPP review which makes some good points IMO): !!!
Which reminds me, Kojima's selfish.
As much as he is anti-nuke he nukes his characters when he is done with them.
Want to tell a Solid Snake story? Have fun writing one about him battling arthritis.
Want to tell a Big Boss story. Find a year, because we wrote out a decade of his life because.
Alex_Mexico
Member
I was thinking this exact same thing.
In 6 main MGS games (1,2,3,4,PW,V) we only really played as Solid Snake in his prime in one game and Big Boss in two (3 and PW). The rest is a combination of pure trolling, needless twists or just plain "I wanted to make him old to show the power of the PS3 through an old wrinkled man".
Right after beating MGSV I thought it was the second from worst MGS in story (best in gameplay though) just above MGS2. As more time passes and I let this sink in more I'm beginning to doubt I like its story more than Mgs2 even. I feel so cheated over the doppelgänger bullshit.
HoodWinked
Member
im sorta confused on the paz thing. if she did actually die in GZ why would kaz and ocelot be in the room with you when you first talk to paz.
also why would the tapes exist in a way where shes acknowledging that shes at the bottom of the sea
also why would the tapes exist in a way where shes acknowledging that shes at the bottom of the sea
You're thinking too much.
did u rike it
They could have definitely handled elements of that better - Kaz and Ocelot showing up in the first hallucination still feels like a cheap attempt to manipulate the player, and the tapes remaining after her subplot is concluded instead of being revealed as static, disappearing entirely or becoming Paz's actual GZ/PW diary dulls the impact of the situation a little as well.
Though I think including Kaz or Ocelot would have been a little more excusable if their models, animations and/or voices were subtly off in the first scene...
Essentially Venom Snake is going crazy.
It's all in his head. Nothing in that room could have taken place, as the room can't even physically exist (its too big to be where it's supposed to be located, apparently).
I haven't heard the tapes but those too could be delusions.
Nintendoga
Member
I hope in MGS6 they reveal that Big Boss's gunshot actually didn't kill The Boss because she had parasites that helped her survive, and right before the MiGS showed up Skullface went up to The Boss to finish the job. But before he killed her The Boss told Skullface she knew what his job was and told him to be his own man instead of a puppet for Zero.
Then it's revealed that the vision The Boss told Snake wasn't actually her TRUE vision, and she tells Skullface that her TRUE vision is to unify the world by the one thing everyone on the planet has the potential to share. Language. But Skullface took it the wrong way and wanted to unify the world by destroying all other languages.
And then in Portable Ops right before Gene died while Snake was making his Pre-Pre Outer Heaven speech, Skullface tried to kill him but Gene told him to carry on his will to create a nation for soldiers that weren't puppets for the government. And this made Skullface begin his plans to kill Zero and Big Boss because of how his fate was tied to the two of them.
And finally, in the post credits scene Skullface is reporting back to Zero after helping Big Boss complete a mission, and they drop SUBTLE foreshadowing lines like
Skullface "You know eventually the two of us will be enemies, and the world will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free."
Zero "Then I suppose I'll have to have the DIAMOND DOG take care of you."
Skullface "Sorry to disappoint you major, but you can't kill a PHANTOM."
Zero "That may be, but you can certainly cause it PAIN."
Then it's revealed that the vision The Boss told Snake wasn't actually her TRUE vision, and she tells Skullface that her TRUE vision is to unify the world by the one thing everyone on the planet has the potential to share. Language. But Skullface took it the wrong way and wanted to unify the world by destroying all other languages.
And then in Portable Ops right before Gene died while Snake was making his Pre-Pre Outer Heaven speech, Skullface tried to kill him but Gene told him to carry on his will to create a nation for soldiers that weren't puppets for the government. And this made Skullface begin his plans to kill Zero and Big Boss because of how his fate was tied to the two of them.
And finally, in the post credits scene Skullface is reporting back to Zero after helping Big Boss complete a mission, and they drop SUBTLE foreshadowing lines like
Skullface "You know eventually the two of us will be enemies, and the world will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free."
Zero "Then I suppose I'll have to have the DIAMOND DOG take care of you."
Skullface "Sorry to disappoint you major, but you can't kill a PHANTOM."
Zero "That may be, but you can certainly cause it PAIN."
HoodWinked
Member
yah the door leading directly outside is really cool (though i didnt realize it read it on youtube comments) i think the tapes just kind of fuck things up. but it does make alot of sense since venom being the medic would have the most guilt about this because he didnt find the second bomb and these hallucinations were a coping method.
hmm actually they should have let you open the paz door after the ending and made it obvious that it just leads directly to that unfinished outside platform.
agreed! still i really liked it conceptually and the final scene is well done
Berserker976
Member
Oh god, I... I feel sick.
Somewhere out there Kojima is thinking this exact thing. I never thought I'd say this, but... it's a good thing Konami got rid of Kojima and took him away from this series.
Fotheringay
Member
Oh god, are we at the The Shining's "impossible geometry" fan theory point.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
Should Have ended with Venom overlooking Zanzibar and then have an ariesl zoom out and then zoom in on Snake entering the base.
This post sums up how I feel.
dr3upmushroom
Banned
MGS6: Parasitic nanomachines.
Unknown One
Member
We got to dig even deeper. It's either viruses or bacteria.
Neutrinos possessed by vengeful ghosts.
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