Doctor Who Series 9 |OT| Let Zygons Be Zygons

peanutbutterlatte said:
Haven't finished it yet, but "You did something terrible, you bent the rules of life and death!"

And regeneration is... What exactly Doc?
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I think there is quite a big difference between Time Lords using a last ditch effort to survive and a tyrant literally hijacking the dead and turning them into tools.

I found it a bit weird that the doctor was talking about souls so casually though. Souls are a thing I guess?
 
Liked the story very much, but I agree that the Fisher King didn't quite well in daylight. He looked like (very cool) a Power Rangers villain.
 
Bluth54 said:
The British overnight figures from last week are up, last week they were 3.7 million this week they're at 4.4 million.
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That's good! I was expecting around 4.0-4.1, so a positive surprise for me. In the end I think we're going to end up with a series that is a bit down from last year, but explainably so: First the rugby denting the viewership in the beginning of the series, and secondly the lack of new mains (as in new Doctor and/or companion) not providing any immediate "freshness" to the show.

I think there's very little to worry about. Next week I wager will be even higher; new two-parter, so no "well, I didn't watch the first part so no point in watching", and hopefully a slight "Maisie-effect".
 
Today I also learned that different countries have different sign languages. It makes sense when you think about it, but it's something one usually don't. Some people noted disappointed that the sign language in the past two episodes were not ASL when oter people reminded them that they would of course british sign language that has less than a third of signs in common with the american.

edit:
Wait a minute. What created the ghosts, if the Fisher King was dead for 150 years. I must have missed that.
 
TheJoRu said:
That's good! I was expecting around 4.0-4.1, so a positive surprise for me. In the end I think we're going to end up with a series that is a bit down from last year, but explainably so: First the rugby denting the viewership in the beginning of the series, and secondly the lack of new mains (as in new Doctor and/or companion) not providing any immediate "freshness" to the show.

I think there's very little to worry about. Next week I wager will be even higher; new two-parter, so no "well, I didn't watch the first part so no point in watching", and hopefully a slight "Maisie-effect".
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I doubt Maisie being in the next 2 episodes will really affect the ratings at all, I imagine that most people who are excited about her showing up in something besides GoT probably already watch Doctor Who (at least in the UK).
 
Exterminieren said:
It's amusing to see some of the reactions to this one.

I enjoyed it, but some of you would have crucified Moffat if he wrote an episode like this.
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I don't think Moffat would have explained the paradox that well. Or even used the concept of a paradox. Would have been;

"But how did you put yourself inside the casket?!"

*Doctor rogueishly winks at the camera*

"Deal with it."
 
Ozium said:
Peter Cushing
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Peter Cushing is the Doctor Who David Niven

Part of me wonders if we've not had the whole story here. The 30 minute timeskip backwards wasn't used as much as I was expecting, although we can assume it gave them longer to put the plan in place and explore the 'you can't save her' bit of the story. Which makes me wonder if either we've got another 11's coat situation - so we might revisit this time once again - or it might tie in with Clara's exit, maybe we'll have a period of time when the Doctor knows she's doomed in some way but can't do anything to change it - and she's oblivious.

Was it established quite why the Tardis didn't want to hang around at the station? I thought at first it's because there were two Doctors there - one arriving, one in the suspended animation coffin, which makes sense - except instead it takes him back where he came from thirty minutes earlier, which was *also* a point in time where the Doctor is there twice. So... I dunno.

It could be an oversight, but I'm not sure, my gut's saying there's more to this.
 
Sober said:
Basically the teaser was Moffat telling us as long as he's still at the helm, expect more of these, and don't bother trying to reason them out because you can't.

Which I guess is sorta fine. I mean the other option is to not watch Doctor Who. Or most time travel stories.
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Moffat wrote the pre-titles?
 
Chariot said:
Today I also learned that different countries have different sign languages. It makes sense when you think about it, but it's something one usually don't. Some people noted disappointed that the sign language in the past two episodes were not ASL when oter people reminded them that they would of course british sign language that has less than a third of signs in common with the american.

edit:
Wait a minute. What created the ghosts, if the Fisher King was dead for 150 years. I must have missed that.
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The writing on the wall was what he used to get access to your soul or whatnot.

Exterminieren said:
It's amusing to see some of the reactions to this one.

I enjoyed it, but some of you would have crucified Moffat if he wrote an episode like this.
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I touched on it earlier, but no, there's a big difference in how satisfying an explanation can be between something mostly making sense but not making sense on purpose upon further reflection because of a causality loop, and something mostly making sense but making less sense upon futher reflection because magic.

I'll say something nice about Moffat though: I love the sunglasses. Actually I think they're painfully goofy as hell, but that's why I love them. It's such a middle finger to purists, but rather than just destroy the thing like JNT did, he distills it's ridiculous convenience as a magic wand into a form that no one can possibly take seriously unless you're 12. I can just imagine Peter coming up with this as a way for a little kid to buy some cheap sunglasses and feel more like the Doctor, and Moffat going, "this is brilliant, just the fuck you I've been looking for".
 
peanutbutterlatte said:
I don't think Moffat would have explained the paradox that well. Or even used the concept of a paradox. Would have been;

"But how did you put yourself inside the casket?!"

*Doctor rogueishly winks at the camera*

"Deal with it."
Click to expand...
I don't honestly think we needed the explanation, as much as I enjoyed the pre-titles here.

Blink was built around a similar paradox, and everyone understood it just fine without the Doctor breaking the fourth wall to lecture them about it.
 
haven't enjoyed doctor who this much in yeaaaaars.

don't really care about the occasional plot hole or contrivance, just as long as the episodes are tense and interesting, which they have been. four in a row for me, actually. i can't actually think of a streak that good in doctor who's history since it came back.
 
Exterminieren said:
I don't honestly think we needed the explanation, as much as I enjoyed the pre-titles here.

Blink was built around a similar paradox, and everyone understood it just fine without the Doctor breaking the fourth wall to lecture them about it.
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Yeah I thought it was odd that we had The Doctor explaining the whole paradox to the audience in the beginning when this has happened multiple times in Doctor Who before without explanation as Moffat loves doing this although he's not the only one who does it. Off the top of my head he's done it when the 10th Doctor met up with the 5th Doctor as well as in the Time and Space short where he finds out about the Wibbly Lever from himself.

I mean, I still enjoyed Capaldi's little monologue and thought it was good fun, but just thought it was odd Doctor Who has done it before and only now do they feel some explanation is needed.
 
Minister of War has got to be something we'll see in the future

The intro to this episode was absolutely amazing. Really enjoyed the whole thing
 
HigXx said:
Minister of War has got to be something we'll see in the future

The intro to this episode was absolutely amazing. Really enjoyed the whole thing
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Was thinking that.

They havent really been hitting us over the head with teasing yet for wherever the finale is going like they normally do.
 
Exterminieren said:
I don't honestly think we needed the explanation, as much as I enjoyed the pre-titles here.

Blink was built around a similar paradox, and everyone understood it just fine without the Doctor breaking the fourth wall to lecture them about it.
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I wonder if the explanation is to help push how it's breaking the rules as it doesn't make sense, to add some weight to the whole 'but Doctor!!!!' stuff later.
 
I think we might get an explanation somewhere done the line this season at the very least. With out without one though, that was a lovely pair of episodes.
 
People do as The Doctor commands

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That was a satisfying two-parter even though the monster looked like something you'd see in Power Rangers. The guitar intro was great as well. Capaldi's speeches are much more endearing than Matt Smith's were.

Next week's looks a little too Gatiss for my tastes, but Mathieson co-wrote it so I'll give it a shot. Mummy and Flatline being the best ones last series isn't something that needs repeating.
 
hateradio said:
The king looked menacing in the dark, but looked really goofy when it came into the daylight. :p
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My only gripe about him, too. Power rangers level foam suit in the daytime and a total badass in the dark.

I got my hopes up for the episodes when I saw they weren't Moffat's and my optimism was rewarded. I'm gonna trust that the paradox will be expanded on later.

Still getting a bit of a poochie vibe from sunglasses/electric guitar Doctor, though I love Capaldi's performances.

Mariolee said:
Yeah I thought it was odd that we had The Doctor explaining the whole paradox to the audience in the beginning when this has happened multiple times in Doctor Who before without explanation as Moffat loves doing this although he's not the only one who does it. Off the top of my head he's done it when the 10th Doctor met up with the 5th Doctor as well as in the Time and Space short where he finds out about the Wibbly Lever from himself.

I mean, I still enjoyed Capaldi's little monologue and thought it was good fun, but just thought it was odd Doctor Who has done it before and only now do they feel some explanation is needed.
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I took that as saying that it's not a plot hole or case of "Moffat's gonna moffat" and it will actually be addressed. It might have seemed a bit heavy handed, but its better than having another Pandorica escape to put out of my mind.
 
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the pre-titles was added later, possibly by Moffat. It would be an incredibly easy thing to add later in the series.
 
This two-parter was fantastic. Watched them back-to-back today, I really loved how tense and exciting the entire story was. With characters actually dying and there being real stakes, on top of those characters actually having character and being interesting. The scene with Cass vs. the axe ghost was a particular standout. Definitely Toby Whithouse's best.
 
Quick said:
Cass was well-handled. I liked that she ended up going solo and escaping. The way she figured out she was being followed was well thought-out.
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Hopefully this isn't any kind of disability ignorance showing but I've yet to think of a reason why she didn't just look around like anyone else would. If I'm in her shoes with that kind of threat I'm pirouetting down those corridors. It's like they wanted to emulate Daredevil's radar vision and forgot that she was meant to be deaf not blind.
 
I enjoyed the first episode more, but the second seemed to move by a bit faster. Ending was a bit weak, but that is okay.
 
That was a great two parter.

I kind of wish every episode started with the Doctor talking to the camera about some sci-fi concept and then riffing on his guitar.
 
WrenchNinja said:
That was a great two parter.

I kind of wish every episode started with the Doctor talking to the camera about some sci-fi concept and then riffing on his guitar.
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Yes, this is what worked very well in Listen. The Doctor alone in his TARDIS talks to the person who isn't there. It may be significant that both of these episodes have the form of a ghost story. The confidential tone sets the right atmosphere for weird (weirder) stuff.
 
Finally got around to watching this episode, best episode of the series so far, and one of Capaldi's best. It was the first one to actually feel like an olde Tennant or Matt Smith style episode as well. Part 1 was a bit of a build up, but this one felt like Who in its prime.
 
I loved this epiaode. The intro explaining the bootstrap paradox, guitar theme, and the last minute were the highlights. The little shrug The Doctor gives at the end was just perfect
 
tonysidaway said:
Yes, this is what worked very well in Listen. The Doctor alone in his TARDIS talks to the person who isn't there. It may be significant that both of these episodes have the form of a ghost story. The confidential tone sets the right atmosphere for weird (weirder) stuff.
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Oh my god, yes, that's exactly it. It's like the intro to a Tales from the Cryptkeeper or Twilight Zone episode. Love that shit.
 
I loved The Doctor talking at beginning/etc. Worked very well in Listen. Helps boost the atmosphere and enhance the horror/creepyness.

Works very well with this version of the Doctor.
 
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