DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I will give them credit. Even knowing he's not dead, this episode is still really, really tense.
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Doctor Who Series 9 |OT| Let Zygons Be Zygons
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I will give them credit. Even knowing he's not dead, this episode is still really, really tense.
Freewheelin'
Member
Wish people would stop saying this. There will be plenty of kids that do believe it.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Like the look of this alien.
Keyser Soze
Member
WITNESS ME
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
That was excellent. Love the bit at the end, with The Doctor acting a bit like a teacher to Clara, getting her to think about the problem.
The Elite
BOSS
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Perfect, this two parter is the best episode of the capaldi era. The best eps toby whithouse has written too.
CrimsonFist
Member
I liked that one. I hope people are used to the rules of time travel changing every other episode by now though.
APZonerunner
Member
As expected, way better than last week... might even go so far as to say excellent! That was a story that clearly wouldn't fit 45 minutes but wasn't worthy of 90 either, which led to a lot of padding last week. Second half was brilliantly paced, though.
GustyGardner
Member
Best opening ever. I loved this story and this week certainly delivered on last weeks promising opener. The Fisher King had a great design and send off, but felt a bit underutilised overall. I also had to laugh at them doing the 'Doctor is dying' thing again but it didn't last long and the kids will believe it. The side characters were also a bit better than last week though I still can't remember all their names lol. Finally, it really flew by, like I was shocked that when it came to the Doctor arriving back in the sea base we had like 10 minutes left. Just a really good serial and probably my favourite Whithouse story. Next week looks amazing too!
Great pair of episodes overall.
However, as good and well done as it was for the intro, I don't like that they had to essentially explain the idea of the bootstrap paradox. I get why they did it (as it could confuse a more casual viewer and cause them to think it's nonsense), but it did give away the plot somewhat. Granted, I had worked out that it'd be the most likely solution last week, but still.
However, as good and well done as it was for the intro, I don't like that they had to essentially explain the idea of the bootstrap paradox. I get why they did it (as it could confuse a more casual viewer and cause them to think it's nonsense), but it did give away the plot somewhat. Granted, I had worked out that it'd be the most likely solution last week, but still.
Really enjoyed this episode again but seriously fuck the guitar, it's just cringey.
O'donnel's death was... stupid. she stepped out of cover and then stood still facing away for some reason?
I thought Bennett was a good character, when Clara gave him the "There's a whole galaxy out there" speech I really thought he might be joining the TARDIS crew but I guess not
O'donnel's death was... stupid. she stepped out of cover and then stood still facing away for some reason?
I thought Bennett was a good character, when Clara gave him the "There's a whole galaxy out there" speech I really thought he might be joining the TARDIS crew but I guess not
The Elite
BOSS
Really enjoyed this episode again but seriously fuck the guitar, it's just cringey.
O'donnel's death was... stupid. she stepped out of cover and then stood still facing away for some reason?
I thought Bennett was a good character, when Clara gave him the "There's a whole galaxy out there" speech I really thought he might be joining the TARDIS crew but I guess not
I love the guitar. Should have gone with sonic guitar instead of glasses.
Doctor could have traveled Wyld Stallyns style.
WadiumArcadium
Member
That theme should be used every episode. Really enjoyed it again and I'm feeling more optimistic about this series again now. Maisie Williams will be interesting next week, I got Robot of Sherwood vibes from the preview.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Really enjoyed this episode again but seriously fuck the guitar, it's just cringey.
O'donnel's death was... stupid. she stepped out of cover and then stood still facing away for some reason?
I thought Bennett was a good character, when Clara gave him the "There's a whole galaxy out there" speech I really thought he might be joining the TARDIS crew but I guess not
This has been annoying me for a while now; they keep doing the "look at this interesting potential companion! But no" thing.
I haven't seen the latest episode yet, but they haven't really done this too often, if my memory serves me right. A few here and there, but not enough that it becomes a pattern per season.
CrimsonFist
Member
So, Minister of War, foreshadowing? or just a throwaway thing? I liked the Saxon callback there too.
And anyone else get God Complex vibes from that scene where they're being stalked by the Fisher King in the village?
We haven't actually had any non-recurring characters joining mid series for an episode or two since series 1 anyway, at least as far as I can remember, so it's not something I'd actually expect to happen.
And anyone else get God Complex vibes from that scene where they're being stalked by the Fisher King in the village?
We haven't actually had any non-recurring characters joining mid series for an episode or two since series 1 anyway, at least as far as I can remember, so it's not something I'd actually expect to happen.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Lesse... I can think of at least a couple last season, most prominently the woman from Into the Dalek, but I think there was another as well. It's not super regular, but since I'd love to see more variety in the companions, it's kind of annoying.
To be fair, it's more
"Look at this interesting potential companion! Like them? Ok, cool. They're dead"
paradox121
Member
Still not a massive fan, but taken as a whole it was pretty OK. It still struggled a lot with character, and towards the end of this ep it had the typical Doctor Who thing of 'Oh shit, we have fifteen things still to explain. Better have the Doctor trail them off while people ask him questions'. But the atmosphere and acting was top notch. And music - already desperate for the next soundtrack and we're only 4 episodes in.
Rock theme music is awesome too. And I guess the Minister of War is something that will crop back up.
The whole explanation both confuses and annoys me. Like, Doctor Who, particularly under Moffat, basically does a causal loop every other week. Its a total story contrivance, but for me at least Moffat can normally get away with it because its either played off for laughs or just entirely glossed over. To highlight and underline both at the start and end of the episode as if its some great revelation was just weird. Yes, its a clever/dumb element to the story, but don't stick a massive neon sign on it.
Rock theme music is awesome too. And I guess the Minister of War is something that will crop back up.
The whole explanation both confuses and annoys me. Like, Doctor Who, particularly under Moffat, basically does a causal loop every other week. Its a total story contrivance, but for me at least Moffat can normally get away with it because its either played off for laughs or just entirely glossed over. To highlight and underline both at the start and end of the episode as if its some great revelation was just weird. Yes, its a clever/dumb element to the story, but don't stick a massive neon sign on it.
Ah, but has Doctor Who actually done a full on ontological paradox before? It's done some time travel related solutions, but I can't actually recall off the top of my head a full-on ontological paradox.
Some have come close like the big red button in Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS and maybe the conversation in Blink, but nothing to this level. But that may just be my brain being tired as I've been up since an ungodly hour.
You know, we are getting a lot of NuWho continuity porn this season. I wonder if this it's just the show's way of paying homage to the 10th anniversary of NuWho, or part of some great secret plan, or if it's just coincidence.
As for the episode, I thought it started out strong and trailed off a bit. But some good dialogue and I hope the Fisher King returns.
As for the episode, I thought it started out strong and trailed off a bit. But some good dialogue and I hope the Fisher King returns.
CrimsonFist
Member
Blink would count as the same sort of paradox. There's probably a few other minor examples, but that would be the biggest.
Listen had it too - the Doctor gives Clara a speech which she then gives to the child Doctor.
Ok, Listen is definitely one. Thanks
My memory seems to suck today hahaBlink isn't really one though. There was a creation of things and the entire plot wasn't really an ontological paradox. The conversation is, but Blink itself? Not so much.
I think the point of contention here is that the entire episode is an ontological paradox rather than just bits of it. Listen is another, but to a lesser extent.
At least he's still alive. It's always possible he could return at a later time.
Speaking of people returning though, it would be so awesome if The Fisher King came back as a recurring villain. He looks scary with a great design, he's deadly, he can create ghosts, he has the villain monologue down and The Doctor fundamentally opposes what he does on a moral and time lord level.
I bet they could do a lot of interesting things with the ghosts too, and having them as a recurring monster would be excellent.
CrimsonFist
Member
Ok, Listen is definitely one. Thanks
Blink isn't really one though. There was a creation of things and the entire plot wasn't really an ontological paradox. The conversation is, but Blink itself? Not so much.
I think the point of contention here is that the entire episode is an ontological paradox rather than just bits of it. Listen is another, but to a lesser extent.
The entire plot of Blink was set up by the notes Sally gave the Doctor at the end, which she acquired from following the Doctor's plan which was set up by the notes, so I'd say it counts. It wasn't just the video conversation.
There were a number of smaller ones in The Big Bang too, like the leaflet that led Amelia to the museum.
The Fisher King had a great design, but Doctor Who has a habit of cheapening villains when they bring them back too much, so I'd be ok with him being a one off.
Somewhat, yeah, though nowhere near to the level of ontological paradox here.
I kind of figured that The Doctor was in that capsule and wasn't really dead. Literally everyone in that episode would be a better companion than Clara, so I'm surprised The Doctor took no one else with him. It would have been interesting having companions know The Doctor's own future and extend the theme out for a few more episodes. There is a bit of foreshadowing in that Saxon reference ... though, I thought everyone forgot Saxon? Maybe need to watch the 10th Doctor's run a bit more.
The part at the beginning was really cool by breaking the 4th wall like it did and tied up nicely at the end ... It was really is more of a stretch it but paid off. I think this two-parter was probably the best of Calpaldi's run so far.
The part at the beginning was really cool by breaking the 4th wall like it did and tied up nicely at the end ... It was really is more of a stretch it but paid off. I think this two-parter was probably the best of Calpaldi's run so far.
paradox121
Member
Ok, Listen is definitely one. Thanks
Blink isn't really one though. There was a creation of things and the entire plot wasn't really an ontological paradox. The conversation is, but Blink itself? Not so much.
I think the point of contention here is that the entire episode is an ontological paradox rather than just bits of it. Listen is another, but to a lesser extent.
Time Heist is kind of one too (the Doctor gives Karabraxos his phone number, so that she then phones him up, he robs the bank, then meets her and gives her his phone number).
Pretty much anything to do with River or the Silence. They were both created to stop the Doctor/TARDIS blowing up the universe, but end up blowing up the universe themselves.
And as CrimsonFist says mostly anything in Big Bang. The Doctor freeing himself from his prison is probably as audacious a causal loop as you can get.
The explanation was more so kids watching could Google something interesting. I think people forget that this is a family show and plenty of children watch it.
CrimsonFist
Member
Everything up until him killing the president still happened, which would include him getting into power, announcing the toclafane, then killing the president, which would have been kind of a big deal.
Oh, The Doctor's Daughter sort of had the time loop paradox too, Jenny's existence drew the Tardis there which led to her creation.
Future Foundation
Member
I just saw a picture of the Fisher King + the Doctor.
HOLY SHIT.
HOLY SHIT.
Exterminieren
Banned
Liked that episode a lot.
ADORED the pre-titles. Can't wait for Capaldi's one-hander episode.
ADORED the pre-titles. Can't wait for Capaldi's one-hander episode.
YOOOO! What a fantastic episode. As I had hoped I actually cared for the guest characters by the end of this, and the mix of suspense, charm (I really liked that Beethoven-intro; I thought it was unexpected and fun, and ultimately made a ton of sense) and good pacing really made it stand out to me.
It wasn't perfect. O'Donnell's death was unexpected and the lead-up was quite suspenseful, but it was a bit weird and wasn't very convincingly executed. The Fisher King overall felt very much style over substance; looked cool, but was underdeveloped as a villain and was easily defeated in the end.
But putting the niggles aside, can I just stress how great the direction and cinematography was this episode? Everything from the look of things, the lighting, performances and pacing was so good. My favourite was probably the one with Cass alone against the axe-wielding ghost. I also enjoyed the reveal of the Fisher King, first just the voice and then slowly emerging from the shadows. Great stuff.
It wasn't perfect. O'Donnell's death was unexpected and the lead-up was quite suspenseful, but it was a bit weird and wasn't very convincingly executed. The Fisher King overall felt very much style over substance; looked cool, but was underdeveloped as a villain and was easily defeated in the end.
But putting the niggles aside, can I just stress how great the direction and cinematography was this episode? Everything from the look of things, the lighting, performances and pacing was so good. My favourite was probably the one with Cass alone against the axe-wielding ghost. I also enjoyed the reveal of the Fisher King, first just the voice and then slowly emerging from the shadows. Great stuff.
Rabid-Coot
Member
Just speculating now but Martha did work for Unit for a while maybe she informed them of the year that got undone.
The Fisher King looked great as well as his voice. He went out like bad ass as well. 4 very good episodes in a row so far.
The minister of war has to be something because it was in between the master episodes and Kill the moon.
Plus with the whole Casual loop basically means these events were predetermined to happen with no origin.
The minister of war has to be something because it was in between the master episodes and Kill the moon.
Plus with the whole Casual loop basically means these events were predetermined to happen with no origin.
APZonerunner
Member
The loop stuff is pretty common in this show, really. I mean... Bad Wolf? Rose is led to the solution by a message future her scatters throughout time to follow her and the Doctor around. That's the earliest modern show example.
infiniteloop
Member
TARDIS can FaceTime yo
