CBC is announcing that Justin Trudeau will be the next Prime Minister of Canada

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firehawk12 said:
I was hoping for real electoral reform, but that's not even a possibility anymore.
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I think Trudeau talked about some kind of a reform, but I don't know if it will be a priority for the Liberals.

krae_man said:
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Wow
 
Tabris said:
I assume you're American, because Canada gets plenty of thought on the international stage.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1080350
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You can relax, I'm not here to take your magic feather away from you.

BocoDragon said:
Thanks to Trudeau, I'm hoping we can get back to what inspired that reputation.
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Is this on Trudeau's actual strengths, or mostly due to having a liberal government again after a decade of conservative rule? As a 'murican who lived under the Dubya era, I kind of get a similar impression that the last name is covering for the lack of intellectual rigor.
 
Tabris said:
That says more about you then the Liberal party though.

You are unable to change your views as parties change their views.

On the opposite side of the spectrum, that's why the conservatives were in power for so long. A lot of voters had slightly conservative views around things like taxes and security, but were not at all in line with the shift to neocon politics, but because they had an entrenched party view they continued to vote for politics that didn't match theirs. That's what has entrenched voting in the US as well, and many other countries.

You need to be willing to shift your view as the political and world landscape changes.

Change your view from "I support X and will always support X because of the history of Y" to "What are you doing for me now?"
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Ontario Liberals ran on a campaign that was even more left wing than this*, and now those same Liberals are privatizing Ontario's Hydro. Campaigning is just a marketing ad, and just like when you're buying products, you should always keep past experiences with the brand in mind, and not just buy something because it has a slick ad.

I voted Liberal and I expect them to govern centre-right. I'm hoping they won't be as corrupt as their provincial counterparts. It's the most realistic thing I can hope for.

*Worth mentioning that this left-wing federal campaign was actually straight up borrowed from the Ontario Liberal campaign. They saw that it worked in Ontario, and they did again federally.

Edit: Trudeau might get some leftist things accomplished though. Ontario has Hugh deficit and debt, while the federal government has a lot of money to work with. In that sense, he might get away with being more left wing sometimes.
 
Chozo said:
You can relax, I'm not here to take your magic feather away from you.



Is this on Trudeau's actual strengths, or mostly due to having a liberal government again after a decade of conservative rule? As a 'murican who lived under the Dubya era, I kind of get a similar impression that the last name is covering for the lack of intellectual rigor.
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Our PM is not like your president. Parliament doesn't work like that. He gets ONE vote just like every other MP.

The PM is just a face during an election mostly, with a few other roles, and their party is riding on a progressive and inspiring platform
 
lsslave said:
Our PM is not like your president. Parliament doesn't work like that. He gets ONE vote just like every other MP.

The PM is just a face during an election mostly, with a few other roles, and their party is riding on a progressive and inspiring platform
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How many votes do you think the American President gets?
 
BlastProcessing said:
How many votes do you think the American President gets?
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It's different. His vote is actually worth more haha. I understand how American politics work fairly well for an outsider.

In Parliament everyone votes (think like your senate votes, which we also have a senate, but we don't need it and it's just a waste of taxpayer money that is only good for constant scandals) and the PM literally is just another person voting there when those issues are voted on.

Your President is not just another senator in the grand scheme of things!
 
lsslave said:
Our PM is not like your president. Parliament doesn't work like that. He gets ONE vote just like every other MP.
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In theory, but parliamentary politics basically boils down to the parties telling their MPs to jump and the MPs asking how high (otherwise the vitriol towards Stephen Harper-who also only had one vote in Parliament-doesn't make a whole lot of sense). I recognize it's not an explicit separation of powers as it is in the US, but the PM isn't treated as the de facto head of state for giggles either, and I would think that as the head of the Liberal party it would be safe to assume that Trudeau is going to have at least some say over party policy.
 
Fularu said:
Shame on Alberta and Saskatchewan for beeing all blue.
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In this election, Alberta elected its first Liberal MPs since 1968. Following that election, Pierre Elliot Trudeau soured an entire generation on the Liberal brand.

Justin Trudeau has an opportunity to show that things are different now. I don't think he'll ever capture the hearts of westerners, but he can certainly improve trust and perhaps earn a few more seats for his party.
 
lsslave said:
It's different. His vote is actually worth more haha. I understand how American politics work fairly well for an outsider.

In Parliament everyone votes (think like your senate votes, which we also have a senate, but we don't need it and it's just a waste of taxpayer money that is only good for constant scandals) and the PM literally is just another person voting there when those issues are voted on.

Your President is not just another senator in the grand scheme of things!
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The MPs will almost always vote for what the party wants though.
 
Chozo said:
In theory, but parliamentary politics basically boils down to the parties telling their MPs to jump and the MPs asking how high (otherwise the vitriol towards Stephen Harper-who also only had one vote in Parliament-doesn't make a whole lot of sense). I recognize it's not an explicit separation of powers as it is in the US, but the PM isn't treated as the de facto head of state for giggles either, and I would think that as the head of the Liberal party it would be safe to assume that Trudeau is going to have at least some say over party policy.
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I dislike the conservative policies. I despise Harper for being a racist piece of shit who embarrassed my nation internationally with his shitty islamophobia. I feel a deep sense of shame at members of my family who have come out in colour to join this islamophobia...

Skeyser said:
The MPs will almost always vote for what the party wants though.
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Not true. There has been a lot of infighting among the parties over the years.
 
lsslave said:
I dislike the conservative policies. I despise Harper for being a racist piece of shit who embarrassed my nation internationally with his shitty islamophobia. I feel a deep sense of shame at members of my family who have come out in colour to join this islamophobia...
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My point is less whether progressive or conservative politics are better, it's challenging the idea that the PM is just a figurehead when they are almost always the leader of the party with the most seats in Parliament and the country's international face.

Not true. There has been a lot of infighting among the parties over the years.
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How much of this is actually reflected when it comes time to count votes, though? Keep in mind I'm speaking from an American perspective, where the Republican Speaker of the House just resigned because he struggled to exert any influence on many of the Tea Party-leaning members of the Republican caucus.
 
Chozo said:
My point is less whether progressive or conservative politics are better, it's challenging the idea that the PM is just a figurehead when they are almost always the leader of the party with the most seats in Parliament and the country's international face.



How much of this is actually reflected when it comes time to count votes, though? Keep in mind I'm speaking from an American perspective, where the Republican Speaker of the House just resigned because he struggled to exert any influence on many of the Tea Party-leaning members of the Republican caucus.
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They aren't a figurehead. They are a member of parliament. They are also, as you said, international. But they DON'T have any power. The president is one of the three checks in American politics. It's hard to explain because our systems are so different (and most Canadians can't tell the difference...)


And it's part of politics. Something that benefits Ontario and doesn't benefit BC will not get the BC MPs voting for it. That's how it works and why parliament works :)
 
lsslave said:
They aren't a figurehead. They are a member of parliament. They are also, as you said, international. But they DON'T have any power. The president is one of the three checks in American politics. It's hard to explain because our systems are so different (and most Canadians can't tell the difference...)


And it's part of politics. Something that benefits Ontario and doesn't benefit BC will not get the BC MPs voting for it. That's how it works and why parliament works :)
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would any of this be correct then?:

Canada does not have a president as it is a parliamentary democracy and a constitutional monarchy. Instead, it is a subject of the British Queen, a Governor General who represents the Queen in Canada, and Prime Minister, who acts as head of state. Each of these people fill some of the roles commonly associated with a president.

Canada is a parliamentary democracy and a constitutional monarchy with Queen Elizabeth II as its head of state. However, most of her duties are performed on her behalf by an appointed Governor General (viceroy) due to the Queen being shared by 15 other countries. The current Governor General of Canada is David Johnston. The roles of both the Queen and the Governor General are largely ceremonial, but they do hold some reserve powers in times of crisis.
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Posting for other non-Canadian gaffers who aren't familiar with Canadian politics and government. I'm told some of our nosey neighbors to the north get off on being part of a constitutional monarchy.

Canadian politics don't really make it to here in the states so this all been interesting to watch unwind so far.
 
TastyOreoFriend said:
would any of this be correct then?:



Posting for other non-Canadian gaffers who aren't familiar with Canadian politics and government. I'm told some of our nosey neighbors to the north get off on being part of a constitutional monarchy.

Canadian politics don't really make it to here in the states so this all been interesting to watch unwind so far.
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The Queen is the figurehead. Or her representative, the Governor General.

The PM actually makes decisions that impact politics. He is a real leader. That Queen stuff is just the general fiction the power of the country is based on. We all know it's just fiction.
 
BocoDragon said:
The Queen is the figurehead. Or her representative, the Governor General.

The PM actually makes decisions that impact politics. He is a real leader. That Queen stuff is just the general fiction the power of the country is based on. We all know it's just fiction.
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Well, except when the GG has actual power. Such as the whole prorogation fiasco.
 
You Are Viewtiful said:
Ontario Liberals ran on a campaign that was even more left wing than this*, and now those same Liberals are privatizing Ontario's Hydro.
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Canadians need to differentiate federal and provincial parties as often their only semblance that just be in name, such as the BC Liberal party to the Federal Liberal party.
 
BocoDragon said:
The Queen is the figurehead. Or her representative, the Governor General.

The PM actually makes decisions that impact politics. He is a real leader. That Queen stuff is just the general fiction the power of the country is based on. We all know it's just fiction.
Click to expand...

So then the PM has similar powers to the president then? Like declaring war/state of emergencies etc.

I remember watching a video where the queen visited Canada and they seemed to make sort of a big deal about it.
 
TastyOreoFriend said:
would any of this be correct then?:



Posting for other non-Canadian gaffers who aren't familiar with Canadian politics and government. I'm told some of our nosey neighbors to the north get off on being part of a constitutional monarchy.

Canadian politics don't really make it to here in the states so this all been interesting to watch unwind so far.
Click to expand...

The sum of what the 'queen' does for our nation is as follows:

She appoints the governor general.

The governor general is a 'check' (checks and balances).

I haven't seen any big GG plays since I became old enough to follow politics. It's really complicated...

So while the queen is our figurehead, we aren't a subject of England. We ditched England and kept her. If that makes sense. When she goes I'm pretty sure we're just going to finish the change over. But we don't care that much either. We're pretty chill with the queen and her appointing the governor general is actually really nice (in theory, since they are supposed to call votes if a party goes shitty with power. In recent time our GG has been too chummy with Harper and ruined what their role was...)

The Prime Minister is the one who leads the party, our diplomat, etc.

When it comes time to ACTUAL power the PM just gets one vote. Just like every other MP (member of parliament). That's what I love most about our system.

TastyOreoFriend said:
So then the PM has similar powers to the president then? Like declaring war/state of emergencies etc.

I remember watching a video where the queen visited Canada and they seemed to make sort of a big deal about it.
Click to expand...

Our parliament votes on war. No one person gets to declare it.
 
lsslave said:
It's different. His vote is actually worth more haha. I understand how American politics work fairly well for an outsider.

In Parliament everyone votes (think like your senate votes, which we also have a senate, but we don't need it and it's just a waste of taxpayer money that is only good for constant scandals) and the PM literally is just another person voting there when those issues are voted on.

Your President is not just another senator in the grand scheme of things!
Click to expand...

The President has no vote whatsoever. He is the head of the Executive Branch, his job is to enforce existing law. The closest thing to a vote he has is the fact that the Vice President gets a vote in the senate in the event of a tie.

lsslave said:
The sum of what the 'queen' does for our nation is as follows:

She appoints the governor general.

The governor general is a 'check' (checks and balances).

I haven't seen any big GG plays since I became old enough to follow politics. It's really complicated...

So while the queen is our figurehead, we aren't a subject of England. We ditched England and kept her. If that makes sense. When she goes I'm pretty sure we're just going to finish the change over. But we don't care that much either. We're pretty chill with the queen and her appointing the governor general is actually really nice (in theory, since they are supposed to call votes if a party goes shitty with power. In recent time our GG has been too chummy with Harper and ruined what their role was...)

The Prime Minister is the one who leads the party, our diplomat, etc.

When it comes time to ACTUAL power the PM just gets one vote. Just like every other MP (member of parliament). That's what I love most about our system.



Our parliament votes on war. No one person gets to declare it.
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This is also true in America only Congress can declare war.
 
Cheerilee said:
Canada went into the global financial crisis in a strong position, thanks mostly to Liberal-era banking regulations.

Harper got in and promised to make the recession go away by cutting government spending (also, let's cut those bothersome regulations). After everyone said "WTF no, that's not how recession works", he flip-flopped and made an "Economic Action Plan" with stimulus spending, and took credit for saving the economy (frequent taxpayer-funded TV ads banging that drum).

America is apparently pulling out of the recession better than Canada is.

Justin Trudeau's current plan is to run a deficit and spend more money on stimulus, so Harper flip-flopped back into saying that government spending is bad, and that Justin is going to destroy our economy with reckless spending.
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Most of the Harper was good economically talk I hear is centered on recession issues so your explanation makes sense.
 
TastyOreoFriend said:
So then the PM has similar powers to the president then? Like declaring war/state of emergencies etc.

I remember watching a video where the queen visited Canada and they seemed to make sort of a big deal about it.
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The Prime Minister has more power then the President in the US.

With limited exceptions, prime ministers have exercised full discretion with respect to summoning, proroguing and dissolving the House of Commons. In other words, the prime minister seems to have the unchecked power to decide when the House should be in session, when elections should occur, and even, in some circumstances, when their governments do or do not have the confidence of the House.
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In the House, the prime minister and government have considerable control over day-to-day operations. This allows governments not only to set the agenda, but to carry it out with ease. The prime minister commands the steadfast loyalty of his MPs, largely through a carrot-and-stick approach; co-operative MPs might be rewarded with cabinet posts or coveted committee positions, while rogues can be — and at times are — punished with removal from caucus or even barred from running as a candidate for the party in future elections. All of these are vestiges of prime ministerial power. The party caucus has little leverage with which to counterbalance the prime minister’s power because party leaders are chosen (and replaced) by the party at large, rather than by the caucus. Thus, the government’s MPs have no effective mechanism through which to stand their ground against a very powerful leader or effectively represent his or her constituents.

Rather than becoming more like a system of presidential executive authority, this situation has left Canadian prime ministers in a position more akin to historical monarchs. The evolution of Westminster democracy in Canada is very much a story about the struggle to wrestle power away from the Crown and shift it to Parliament, and specifically the House of Commons, our primary democratic body and check on unfettered prime ministerial power. The ability of prime ministers to retain and use these Crown powers, alongside other powers over MPs and the House of Commons, is resulting in a situation where prime ministers have the power to make decisions, partisan and otherwise, that limit or negate Parliament’s role as a guardian for accountability in our democratic system.
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TastyOreoFriend said:
So then the PM has similar powers to the president then? Like declaring war/state of emergencies etc.

I remember watching a video where the queen visited Canada and they seemed to make sort of a big deal about it.
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When the Queen comes to Canada, she becomes... the Queen of Canada and is the head of state. It's pretty stupid.
 
lsslave said:
The sum of what the 'queen' does for our nation is as follows:

She appoints the governor general.

[...]
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The Prime Minister suggests a Governor General and it would be pretty much unthinkable for the Queen to choose someone else. She'd quickly lose her status as Queen if she actually tried to use that power.
 
BlastProcessing said:
The President has no vote whatsoever. He is the head of the Executive Branch, his job is to enforce existing law. The closest thing to a vote he has is the fact that the Vice President gets a vote in the senate in the event of a tie.



This is also true in America only Congress can declare war.
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I might be wrong on that aspect for the US. I thought that he was the third pass (Senate, Congress, POTUS). I always thought he was the equivalent of one of those (checks and balances).

It's hard when you aren't raised to understand a system to grasp it I suppose.

Slavik81 said:
The Prime Minister suggests a Governor General and it would be pretty much unthinkable for the Queen to choose someone else. She'd quickly lose her status as Queen if she actually tried to use that power.
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Well. She is a figurehead. But she does appoint the governor general. Whether or not it's HER choice is neither here nor there haha
 
The whole link between monarchy, commonwealth, and Canada is just tradition, nothing in practical application outside a potential check and balance that may be refuted if Canadians disagreed.
 
lsslave said:
I might be wrong on that aspect for the US. I thought that he was the third pass (Senate, Congress, POTUS). I always thought he was the equivalent of one of those (checks and balances).

It's hard when you aren't raised to understand a system to grasp it I suppose.
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You are basically right. Three Branches: Legislative makes law, Executive Enforces law, Judicial interprets the law.

Don't sweat it, many American's don't know the President's actual role.
 
Holmes said:
Lot of people in this thread think the Liberals are more left-wing than they really are.
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Liberals are Center-Left historically.

Trudeau's liberals are far left. Mulcaire's NDP were center-left. This entire election has been weird as shit because of this.

BlastProcessing said:
You are basically right. Three Branches: Legislative makes law, Executive Enforces law, Judicial interprets the law.

Don't sweat it, many American's don't know the President's actual role.
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I always assumed he had more power, to enact bills and etcetera.

TBF thanks to your current party politics its mostly 'who can fight whom' which is unfortunate and has caused a huge stall in your country for a while :(
 
Thanks for all the clarifications guys. I think I'm gonna see if there's any good books I can read later on Canadian government. This is kind of interesting at the moment lol

firehawk12 said:
When the Queen comes to Canada, she becomes... the Queen of Canada and is the head of state. It's pretty stupid.
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huh?

thats a thing I guess lol

Also Trudeau looks a lot like his dad if the picture is anything to go by.
 
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