Bobby Roberts
Banned
Jabba's palace is tedious as hell.
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Star Wars: The Force Awakens Final Trailer
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Jabba's palace is tedious as hell.
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
Yeah, that scene is like half the movie.
I used to fall asleep all the time. Kind of an AOTC effect for me.
I used to fall asleep all the time. Kind of an AOTC effect for me.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Empire's is better.
LookAtMeGo
Member
Let's just agree to disagree then, even though you're wrong.
Spiritreaver
Member
No worries, I was mostly piggybacking your post so I could bring up how much I love this franchise for the space battles, and ROTJ has the best. If I could live in the universe, I'd be a pilot. I'm already on that Rogue One hype train.
Actually, one of my first steps into the MMO genre was a Star Wars play by email RPG back in the 90s. I was a pilot in the Imperial Navy and good lord was it so much fun. One of the few times I've ever enjoyed role playing
OricWindstar
Member
Yuuuuuup. No contest, even with the cool ending of ROTJ.
Though, to be clear, ROTJ is waaaay better than ROTS in my opinion.
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
Jabba's segment is overkill. Jabba is cool and I freaking love Salacious Crumb though.
About the lightsaber fights, that ROTJ music as they fight though.
About the lightsaber fights, that ROTJ music as they fight though.
Rewatched both this morning. RotJ definitely takes the cake for the ending. Luke just smashing on Vader when he's on the ground is the highlight of the OT.
Red Blaster
Member
uh what highs did rots have again
beyond unlimited powah im drawing a blank
beyond unlimited powah im drawing a blank
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
Unlimited powah isn't a high. A very funny and enjoyable moment though.
whacky lightsaber dance moves aside, the Kenobi vs. Anakin fight was pretty badass, albeit too long.
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
To be fair, he was easily given the worst lines.
OricWindstar
Member
"The Force is strong with you young Skywalker..."
"...but you are not a Jedi yet."
Nothing can top that moment for me. The tension. Luke realizing shit is about to go down and accepting his destiny (likely death) like a champ.
If Force Awakens can even slightly capture this kind of moment...oh boy, it'd be something special.
LookAtMeGo
Member
One thing I will say about RotJ is that damn song they added to with that CG thing singing "ohh badaba waaahhhhh" in Jabas palace. I fucking hate it and skip past it every time.
Spiritreaver
Member
See this is how I feel about the entire Hoth sequence, but I might just be a weirdo. I actually enjoy Jabba's more than Hoth.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Unlimited Powaaaaah is definitely not a high.
The Order 66 montage
The wordless moment between Anakin & Padme
The Opera Scene
The Opening Assault
The Padme's Funeral/Vader's Birth montage
Granted, there's some really mediocre shit inbetween, but those moments feature solid filmmaking from Lucas, solid enough to make you remember he was the guy who helped edit The Godfather and made THX 1138.
Jedi's got:
The Space Battle
The Throne Room
The speeder bike chase
...and that's it, really. Jabba's Palace takes too goddamn long. The ewoks aren't good. The ground battle isn't good. Han Solo's character is neutered and kneecapped. Chewie is a punchline. Fisher's performance is almost as bad as Christensen's in Sith, and in the brother/sister reveal, she's actually WORSE than he is in that movie.
Williams' music elevates the throne room like crazy - that fight isn't as good as Empire. The music is better than the fight is.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
*hugs my despecialized editions*
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
Despecialized is your friend. ROTJ got the worst deal in the Special Editions (with Star Wars being a close second). As bad as that is, it sure isn't fucking Hayden Christensen's floating head.
LookAtMeGo
Member
Yeah, I really need to get my hands on the despecialized editions.
half a moon
Banned
I downloaded the 4gb versions and the compression stands out. I think the source is 20gb each
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Years of washed out VHS have trained me to look for the slug on his hood.
edit: wait, are his eyes going in two different directions?
What the fuck how have I never noticed that before.
edit: wait, are his eyes going in two different directions?
What the fuck how have I never noticed that before.
LookAtMeGo
Member
^^ there is some perverted "crossing swords" joke to be made there.
Yes, I don't know why people love it so much. It has a lot of creativity but it also just draaaags. Even as a kid I thought the structure was very boring. It's just a series of people showing up and failing until the actual fun part, the sarlacc.
Spiritreaver
Member
The more you people post, the more I realize I'm not at all like any of you, lol.
Maybe I'm not human.
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
"oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite operational when your friends arrive"
Red Blaster
Member
for someone seemingly so learned about film im surprised you give a pass to rots' complete dogshit of an opening with its utter lack of tonal consistency + meaningless orgy of special effects
"The Force is strong with you young Skywalker..."
"...but you are not a Jedi yet."
Nothing can top that moment for me. The tension. Luke realizing shit is about to go down and accepting his destiny (likely death) like a champ.
If Force Awakens can even slightly capture this kind of moment...oh boy, it'd be something special.
For me, it's this.
http://webm.host/bec1f/vid.webm
Just great use of shadows,the sparks flying everywhere, and Hamill doing a great job selling Luke's fear/apprehension and it turning into rage. Not to mention this is really the first time in the trilogy you see Luke just snap like this.
While it still has the same issues as the other fights in the prequels, it also had the most emotions and was very well framed at times.
Part of it is definitely on Lucas but Hayden was stiff as a board for a lot of scenes.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Whoever said I was learned about film? I just watch a bunch of movies.
And I said the opening assault. I didn't say anything about whatever happens once they actually get on the ship.
Almost all those moments I mentioned are, save for the opera house, more or less wordless. The dialog in the assault is perfunctory at best, and the best part of it features no speaking at all, just the flying. Lucas is a director who is often best just using pure imagery and music/sound to get his point across. He remembered that in fits and starts on Sith, and it made for really interesting moments in an otherwise mediocre movie.
Jedi is just bland and when it's not bland, it's bad, and then, when you get to the last half-hour, good stuff starts happening, and most of it only works because Empire was so good, not because Jedi's actually earned anything.
I think Vader's "redemption" (it's not much of one, it's more of a realization that he fucked up bad, and he commits suicide by cop trying to make some sort of amends) is a problem because after the fact, everyone sort of got the idea that Return of the Jedi was as much about Vader as it was Luke. And it wasn't. That's not Vader's redemption, it's Luke's victory. But nobody thinks of it that way, and when Lucas sat down to write the prequels, he didn't think of it that way, either. And I think that absolutely colored how he wrote the following stories.
Return of the Jedi is Luke's movie, and Luke's victory. Not Vader's. And giving Vader the credit (over Luke) was one of the ways that movie muddied itself up, and it's definitely a big part of why the Prequels were as confused as they were on a storytelling level.
It's both Luke's victory and Vader's redemption. And note that Luke's victory isn't that Vader and the Emperor died in the end. The moment of Luke's victory was when he turned away from the Dark Side. Even if the Emperor did kill him after that, the Emperor lost since his whole goal in all this was to temp Luke to the Dark Side to be his new apprentice. Vader turning on the Emperor to do the right thing is separate from Luke's victory of the Dark Side and his redemption is legitimate. It's not prequel-influenced revisionism.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
It's the light side's victory. Good's conquest over evil. And it manifests through both Luke and Vader.
Spiritreaver
Member
Finally.
I have brought up Battle Over Coruscant in so many threads and it either gets ignored or people just tell me it has too much shit going on. (which it does, but I don't think it detracts much). The whole sequence from the opening crawl to the first bit of dialogue gives me goosebumps every time.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Sure, but they're not equal. And ever since the movie's come out (and probably even in the editing of the film itself) they've been set on the same level - and honestly, Vader's redemption is now more important than Luke's victory. It takes precedence. It shouldn't. Vader's redemption should supplement Luke's victory, but it doesn't. And that lessens the impact, I think.
People are still confused about what the title of the movie means after all these years, and it's because so much focus has been placed on Vader/Anakin after that film came out, and Vader just isn't really built to carry that weight. He's a supporting character in Star Wars and a malevolent freak of nature in Empire. Forcing him into THE main character role for ALL SIX movies weakens his character, not strengthens it. And it retroactively fucks up Obi-Wan and Yoda, and it takes away from Luke's victory.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
And those things make the film overall a mediocre movie. But there's more bad things about Jedi, and more mediocre things as well. Jedi has higher highs, but a couple pretty deep valleys, and spends a lot of its runtime basically at sea level.
Everytime this comes up, I have to clarify: I don't think either Jedi or Sith are particularly good films. I'm not arguing that Sith is a good movie. It's pretty okay, at best. But it's better than Jedi.
But it's not even really that good. It's like the sail barge, but with more glowsticks.
None of those were bad though?
Also the opera scene is the best scene in the entire saga as far as I'm concerned. so it has the highest high.
This cracked me up because I swear to God that damn slug drove me mental for over 30 years as did his loopy eyes which just IMO helped make the Emperor look even more insane.
As soon as I saw that pic my eyes instantly went to the left of that hood like a trained monkey.
LOL >D
My fanboy heart nearly exploded the first time I saw the juxtaposed Yoda vs Palpative and Obi-Wan vs. Vader fight. At the time, I knew what I was watching was overkill but I didn't really give a shit. It's not as great in hindsight without the hype and scope when seeing for the first time in a theater but I still love the final act climax, even if it's all a bit much.
The Greivious subplot was entirely pointless. The only thing it served was to have Obi-Wan conviently out of town while Anakin started his fall.
And the opera scene was good, but the highest high of the entire saga? Nah.
I do think it's overly long but there are some good scenes in it like when Anakin was trying to push Obi-Wan's lightsaber into himself, the lava erupting behind them (yes I know it's as subtle as a bag of bricks but is effective), and Anakin burning alive like that.
Of course I still have many issues with the thing like Obi-Wan calling Anakin his brother but letting him burn alive instead of finishing him, the high ground, and the general choreography.
Red Blaster
Member
i rewatched the opening of rots and i dont get it
5 minutes of obi wan and anakin flying to a command ship fending off cursory droid badguys where anakin inexplicably helps out some rando clone trooper (even though its been established through aotc that anakin is basically a sociopath)? everything about it follows the basic philosophy of the prequel effects orgy--no stakes, no tension. so much random action that its boring. why do people like this?
i did rewatch the opera scene and i'll admit it's pretty solid, not as good as unlimited powah but close
5 minutes of obi wan and anakin flying to a command ship fending off cursory droid badguys where anakin inexplicably helps out some rando clone trooper (even though its been established through aotc that anakin is basically a sociopath)? everything about it follows the basic philosophy of the prequel effects orgy--no stakes, no tension. so much random action that its boring. why do people like this?
i did rewatch the opera scene and i'll admit it's pretty solid, not as good as unlimited powah but close
Spiritreaver
Member
Once they get the little bridge just before the place starts erupting and there's the huge crescendo I just turn my brain off. There's so much crap after that that isn't necessary.
It even comes with a warning, that stupid droid shows up watching this epic duel, toots and flies off. WHY IS IT THERE?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Don't forget the one-two dipshit hall-of-famers:
"Only a sith deals in absolutes."
"From my point of view the Jedi are evil!"
"Only a sith deals in absolutes."
"From my point of view the Jedi are evil!"
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