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[neorej]

No he didn't, he was just hurt with a back injury that kept him from filming.

Liam Neeson doesn't get back injuries. Back injuries get Liam Neeson!

 

[PandaShake]

Anyone watched Plinkett's reviews of the prequels on youtube? The reviews are as long as the movies, but man, that guy has a great sense of humor and pointed out a clusterfuck of issues in the prequels I didn't even notice. Really entertaining. I watched the original on VHS over and over again as a kid. Saw the prequels once still a kid and enjoyed it for the mindless CG and pod racing. I can't imagine watching prequels with the horrid contradictions and dialogue now.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Anyone watched Plinkett's reviews of the prequels on youtube? The reviews are as long as the movies, but man, that guy has a great sense of humor and pointed out a clusterfuck of issues in the prequels I didn't even notice. Really entertaining. I watched the original on VHS over and over again as a kid. Saw the prequels once still a kid and enjoyed it for the mindless CG and pod racing. I can't imagine watching prequels with the horrid contradictions and dialogue now.

No, I can't recall them ever being brought up in a Star Wars thread. Ever.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Anyone watched Plinkett's reviews of the prequels on youtube? The reviews are as long as the movies, but man, that guy has a great sense of humor and pointed out a clusterfuck of issues in the prequels I didn't even notice. Really entertaining. I watched the original on VHS over and over again as a kid. Saw the prequels once still a kid and enjoyed it for the mindless CG and pod racing. I can't imagine watching prequels with the horrid contradictions and dialogue now.

Whats a Plinkett?

 

[Into]

Anyone watched Plinkett's reviews of the prequels on youtube? The reviews are as long as the movies, but man, that guy has a great sense of humor and pointed out a clusterfuck of issues in the prequels I didn't even notice. Really entertaining. I watched the original on VHS over and over again as a kid. Saw the prequels once still a kid and enjoyed it for the mindless CG and pod racing. I can't imagine watching prequels with the horrid contradictions and dialogue now.

Yeah they are very funny and well done

If you want to see other Prequel reviews, i suggest Confused Matthew review of the films and Distressed Watcher (amazing atheist guy), these arent as funny as Plinkett's reviews but they do bring points up that i never considered.

 

[Zeus7]

Something from the prequels I don't want to see in the new films: Jedi superheroes.

I know Lucas says in the OT all we were seeing were old out of pratice Jedi and a new Jedi not properly trained, but hey THAT'S what I want from my Jedi and dark side users. I DO NOT want to see people jumping 200ft high jumps, I DO NOT want to see Jedi deciding, one time only and completely out of nowhere, to run super fast (please NEVER do that again).

I DO NOT want my Jedi to bleat on about not having kids and all that bullshit. They were so boring, so utterly lacking in character whatsoever. Let them be people with conflicts and emotions, not soulless robots.

The prequels truly did ruin a lot of what makes Star Wars Star Wars. Let it me mystic, let it be spiritual, stop giving us scientific explanations for why someone has the force, as if the battles between force users comes down to your midichlorian stat. FUCK THAT.

I don't care what anyone says but the prequels were fucking shit movies. Phantom Menace was actually the best, the most Star Wars film of the three. It wasn't blighted by shit CGI all over the shop. I mean it seems like 90% of the sets in 2 and 3 had EVERYTHING CGI, even the fucking floor. As a result it does look like nothing more than a computer game cut scene. It has no solidity, no believability to it all. All the scenes in the Jedi temple etc look so fake it is embarrassing, and that shit only gets worse with time.

These were poorly produced films, Rick McCallum and George Lucas was clearly a fucking horrible combination. Seemingly everything was done to be as cheap and quick as possible, even if it hurt the quality of what they caught on (shitty) digital film. Why build a set when we can rely on CGI to fill in EVERYTHING in the background! That is not how you help actors feel part of the world, and that is the part where all this CGI reliance really shows. Actors with no sense of urgency, with literally no reaction to things that should make them flinch (Obi Wan with Grievous unleashing 50 lightsabers from 5 feet away being a prime example). The actors had nothing to work with, and with poor script to deliver and seemingly non existent direction from Lucas too I feel sorry that they're getting most of the flak. I've seen behind the scenes clips of Lucas talking to the actors, it actually terrifies me he was making huge budget films, he simply does not have a way with actors AT ALL. Like a novice father being lumped with directing the kids school play this Xmas... awful.

From this final trailer we see an actually intriguing set up. We have two characters who have been living in obscurity and simply don't know much, if anything about the Jedi, or the dark side. Rey probably knows more than Finn, who has been indoctrinated, radicalised even, by the First Order. There is so much possibility here. Imagine seeing him, for whatever reason it is, to realise he wants out of this. Then seeing him learn the truth, seeing him discover what has gone on, seeing him react the first time he sees the Force being used, or indeed when he uses it himself for the first time. IT's going to be glorious. Getting right back to Star Wars roots. We'll see characters in awe of the Force. That is what Star Wars is to me. The fact that it is Han telling these characters is just perfect. He's seen it all and used to be a cynic, but now he has first hand experience and is the one bringing the news to these new characters. It's beautiful, and already in this one trailer alone exceeds anything and everything the prequels managed.

Doesn't hurt that the film looks absolutely magnificent. Tons of CGI of course, but done with an eye towards realism. Lighting looks real, movement looks real. It is so kinetic. Oh god it's glorious. The tone and look of the film is head and shoulders in a different league to the prequels. It shows what someone passionate about Star Wars, who truly gets it, can achieve.

I love Lucas for the Universe he created, but so much of what makes SW what it is is thanks to many other people collaborating together. With the prequels he took a top down approach and had nothing but Yes men/women at his side agreeing with every crappy idea he had. He wrote terrible scripts single handedly, with seemingly no input from anyone else and that itself is probably the biggest problem. I think his early drafts became the film. In all the previous films the scripts had a lot of flab cut, a lot of important things changed, input from many people, and indeed people like Kasdan taking on writing duties altogether... it really really shows. The new films look to be delivered from people who care about this world, and I love that. I have complete faith, and thank Disney for taking this on and doing it right.

A new, great generation of Star Wars awaits.

I think this post has raised my hype to another level, if that's even possible..

 

[-griffy-]

They effectively have. Not on the poster, not in the trailer - 99.994% no way they stick him in a TV commercial.

I'd bet they'll pull that TV promo shit that all movies do now, where after opening weekend we'll get the "#1 movie in the world!" spots that just have spoilery money shot after spoilery money shot with CG floating pull-quotes badly motion tracked into shots. Luke will show up in one of those week after release, almost guaranteed.

 

[Roussow]

Any HD download links?
I want to run these trailers through an editor.

 

[btrboyev]

The "main appeal of the OT" is entirely subjective. If you don't like the subversion of the Jedi, sorry, but for many other people including myself it works fine or even makes the story better.

I can't really argue that the PT fails to make it explicitly obvious that the Jedi are corrupt, but the material is certainly there. As with the rest of the PT, Lucas has the ideas but doesn't stick the landing - but even before TCW came out, many people in the fandom had come to the belief that the PT was supposed to show a deconstructed view of the Jedi as hierarchical organization. They're shown being the police for the Republic who are dragged into a war that they're not supposed to be fighting ("We're keepers of the peace, not soldiers"). Qui-Gon butts heads with the Council, going off and doing his own stuff ("Do not defy the council Maser, not again") talking about the Living Force and ends up being the first one to actually achieve life after death because of his unorthodox views. In AotC, Yoda talks about how arrogance is becoming increasingly more common in the Jedi ("A flaw more and more common among Jedi. Too sure of themselves they are. Even the older, more experienced ones."). The very fact that their ability to use the Force is diminishing is indicative of the fact that they aren't in proper communion with it, allowing Palpatine to cloud their vision through the dark side.

The fact that they do not allow relationships or attachment is one of the direct causes of Anakin's fall; we can easily see how Obi-Wan's more strict teachings failed Anakin, whereas someone more understanding like Qui-Gon would have been a better master for him. This particular policy is in complete opposition to what Luke discovers in RotJ, which is that love is what ultimately defeats the dark side. Even in the OT Yoda and Obi-Wan are still harping on how Luke has to be willing to sacrifice his friends to succeed, and that was before the PT ever came out. So the Jedi being aloof and dispassionate isn't some sort of retcon. And honestly, who cares if something is a retcon? This is Star Wars. The biggest twist in the entire franchise is a retcon. Leia's relationship to Luke is a retcon. The whole damn series is based on retcons. Retconning isn't a bad thing if it serves to enhance the storyline.

Very good post.

 

[Cheebo]

I'd bet they'll pull that TV promo shit that all movies do now, where after opening weekend we'll get the "#1 movie in the world!" spots that just have spoilery money shot after spoilery money shot with CG floating pull-quotes badly motion tracked into shots. Luke will show up in one of those week after release, almost guaranteed.

Spoiler

without delving into spoilers, I can't see how they could possibly do that. Luke has just as much chance as appearing in the marketing as Jar Jar.

Tagging it to be safe

But based on how this movie is marketed no one is seeing Luke outside of seeing the actual movie. That's clear from marketing.

 

[LaserBuddha]

Spoiler

without delving into spoilers, I can't see how they could possibly do that. Luke has just as much chance as appearing in the marketing as Jar Jar.

This reads like a very piss poor attempt at not delving into spoilers.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Anyone watched Plinkett's reviews of the prequels on youtube? The reviews are as long as the movies, but man, that guy has a great sense of humor and pointed out a clusterfuck of issues in the prequels I didn't even notice. Really entertaining. I watched the original on VHS over and over again as a kid. Saw the prequels once still a kid and enjoyed it for the mindless CG and pod racing. I can't imagine watching prequels with the horrid contradictions and dialogue now.

Man his voice is more annoying than Jar Jar's.

 

[-griffy-]

Spoiler

without delving into spoilers, I can't see how they could possibly do that. Luke has just as much chance as appearing in the marketing as Jar Jar.

Frankly, if you have knowledge of things, I'd prefer you don't even reply to a post like mine with vague hints like this.

 

[Sectorseven]

Man his voice is more annoying than Jar Jar's.

He's a 120 year old alcoholic, give him a break.

 

[Cheebo]

This reads like a very piss poor attempt at not delving into spoilers.

It has nothing to do with the plot or spoilers. Even with no knowledge of spoilers it is obvious. Purely based on how they are avoiding ANY marketing of showing him or even acknowledging he is in it. They are not going to change that for a tv slot.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

If Luke was going to be in TV spots he'd be in the FINAL trailer or the poster.

 

[Cheebo]

If Luke was going to be in TV spots he'd be in the FINAL trailer or the poster.

Bingo. People need to let go of this. No one is seeing Luke.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Bingo. People need to let go of this. No one is seeing Luke.

And I for one am glad.

 

[-griffy-]

It has nothing to do with the plot or spoilers. Even with no knowledge of spoilers it is obvious. Purely based on how they are avoiding ANY marketing of showing him or even acknowledging he is in it. They are not going to change that for a tv slot.

The Jurassic World spot I linked literally has the final shot of the film and multiple shots of the climactic battle that they very deliberately didn't put in any of the pre-release marketing. I'm talking about post release here. There doesn't seem to be any guarantee when it comes post-release.

 

[mattp]

Something from the prequels I don't want to see in the new films: Jedi superheroes.

I know Lucas says in the OT all we were seeing were old out of pratice Jedi and a new Jedi not properly trained, but hey THAT'S what I want from my Jedi and dark side users. I DO NOT want to see people jumping 200ft high jumps, I DO NOT want to see Jedi deciding, one time only and completely out of nowhere, to run super fast (please NEVER do that again).

I DO NOT want my Jedi to bleat on about not having kids and all that bullshit. They were so boring, so utterly lacking in character whatsoever. Let them be people with conflicts and emotions, not soulless robots.

The prequels truly did ruin a lot of what makes Star Wars Star Wars. Let it me mystic, let it be spiritual, stop giving us scientific explanations for why someone has the force, as if the battles between force users comes down to your midichlorian stat. FUCK THAT.

I don't care what anyone says but the prequels were fucking shit movies. Phantom Menace was actually the best, the most Star Wars film of the three. It wasn't blighted by shit CGI all over the shop. I mean it seems like 90% of the sets in 2 and 3 had EVERYTHING CGI, even the fucking floor. As a result it does look like nothing more than a computer game cut scene. It has no solidity, no believability to it all. All the scenes in the Jedi temple etc look so fake it is embarrassing, and that shit only gets worse with time.

These were poorly produced films, Rick McCallum and George Lucas was clearly a fucking horrible combination. Seemingly everything was done to be as cheap and quick as possible, even if it hurt the quality of what they caught on (shitty) digital film. Why build a set when we can rely on CGI to fill in EVERYTHING in the background! That is not how you help actors feel part of the world, and that is the part where all this CGI reliance really shows. Actors with no sense of urgency, with literally no reaction to things that should make them flinch (Obi Wan with Grievous unleashing 50 lightsabers from 5 feet away being a prime example). The actors had nothing to work with, and with poor script to deliver and seemingly non existent direction from Lucas too I feel sorry that they're getting most of the flak. I've seen behind the scenes clips of Lucas talking to the actors, it actually terrifies me he was making huge budget films, he simply does not have a way with actors AT ALL. Like a novice father being lumped with directing the kids school play this Xmas... awful.

From this final trailer we see an actually intriguing set up. We have two characters who have been living in obscurity and simply don't know much, if anything about the Jedi, or the dark side. Rey probably knows more than Finn, who has been indoctrinated, radicalised even, by the First Order. There is so much possibility here. Imagine seeing him, for whatever reason it is, to realise he wants out of this. Then seeing him learn the truth, seeing him discover what has gone on, seeing him react the first time he sees the Force being used, or indeed when he uses it himself for the first time. IT's going to be glorious. Getting right back to Star Wars roots. We'll see characters in awe of the Force. That is what Star Wars is to me. The fact that it is Han telling these characters is just perfect. He's seen it all and used to be a cynic, but now he has first hand experience and is the one bringing the news to these new characters. It's beautiful, and already in this one trailer alone exceeds anything and everything the prequels managed.

Doesn't hurt that the film looks absolutely magnificent. Tons of CGI of course, but done with an eye towards realism. Lighting looks real, movement looks real. It is so kinetic. Oh god it's glorious. The tone and look of the film is head and shoulders in a different league to the prequels. It shows what someone passionate about Star Wars, who truly gets it, can achieve.

I love Lucas for the Universe he created, but so much of what makes SW what it is is thanks to many other people collaborating together. With the prequels he took a top down approach and had nothing but Yes men/women at his side agreeing with every crappy idea he had. He wrote terrible scripts single handedly, with seemingly no input from anyone else and that itself is probably the biggest problem. I think his early drafts became the film. In all the previous films the scripts had a lot of flab cut, a lot of important things changed, input from many people, and indeed people like Kasdan taking on writing duties altogether... it really really shows. The new films look to be delivered from people who care about this world, and I love that. I have complete faith, and thank Disney for taking this on and doing it right.

A new, great generation of Star Wars awaits.

this pretty perfectly sums up how i feel about the prequels and this new movie

 

[chesspieceface]

Lol @ Anikin telling Padme he just murdered a whole tribe including the children and she gave no fucks.

"You kill innocent kids? We should get married."

My explanation for that is that, consciously or not, Anakin somewhat did affect Padme's mind with the force.

Once you accept that it becomes much easier to deal with Padme in Episode 2 and Episode 3.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

The Jurassic World spot I linked literally has the final shot of the film and multiple shots of the climactic battle that they very deliberately didn't put in any of the pre-release marketing. I'm talking about post release here. There doesn't seem to be any guarantee when it comes post-release.

I see what you mean, but there's a difference between some dinosaurs fighting in a Jurassic Park film and the reappearance of a character that JJ and Lucasfilm have tried to hide as if their lives depended on it.

 

[brandonh83]

The "main appeal of the OT" is entirely subjective. If you don't like the subversion of the Jedi, sorry, but for many other people including myself it works fine or even makes the story better.

Been preaching this for a while, but you probably just put it better than I did or could. It's one of the reasons why I love the story in the prequels and I found it necessary for the "Jedi fall" to even make a lick of sense. People are just too focused on midichlorians or whatever. The execution itself could have been better as the movies are plagued with writing problems, but I at least found all this to be very clear.

 

[Cheebo]

The Jurassic World spot I linked literally has the final shot of the film and multiple shots of the climactic battle that they very deliberately didn't put in any of the pre-release marketing. I'm talking about post release here. There doesn't seem to be any guarantee when it comes post-release.

Big difference between dinos fighting. Everyone knows that is what happens in JP films. Unless you are following the production of this film closely you have no idea Luke is even in this movie, and that is very intentional.

 

[-griffy-]

I see what you mean, but there's a difference between some dinosaurs fighting in a Jurassic Park film and the reappearance of a character that JJ and Lucasfilm have tried to hide as if their lives depended on it.

Yeah, but in this real world sometimes the marketing overlords win out! Once the movie is out there, all bets are off. The veil is already lifted, anything is fair game these days it seems. Maybe this is just me being cynical, who knows.

Whedon and co were pretty damn cagey about Vision pre-release, only the briefest glimpse of his eyes in the trailers (which is about as much as they've shown of Luke already, presuming that's him in the robe with the robo-hand on R2), then as they got up to TV spot 40, 41, 42, etc (seriously WTF) they were just showing him flying around, saving characters, talking to other characters etc., then eventually dropping THE money shot of the film straight up, fully, as a TV spot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvj9q1uQKF4

These blockbusters are just throwing anything "cool" into the TV spots at some point in the marketing, logic and spoilers be damned, it seems. Just cause they are deliberately keeping Luke out of the marketing now doesn't mean the marketing people post-release won't be like "LET'S PUT LUKE IN THE TV SPOT, THAT'LL GET SOME PEOPLE TO THE THEATER FOR SURE!" with complete disregard for keeping the mystery box closed. Maybe Abrams has the clout to prevent that, and Kennedy the wherewithal to enforce it, but maybe not.

 

[Mr Cola]

Alot of folks are divided on the trailer music, especially the opening piano which is commonly used nowadays in trailers (Rebel Force Radio showed examples from Age of Ultron, Jurassic World, Inception), single keys to show isolation.

Loved it personally

 

[brandonh83]

Alot of folks are divided on the trailer music, especially the opening piano which is commonly used nowadays in trailers (Rebel Force Radio showed examples from Age of Ultron, Jurassic World, Inception), single keys to show isolation.

Why would anyone complain about something like this.

No really, why. How. How is that even something to complain about. Whewww.

 

[Cheebo]

Why would anyone complain about something like this.

No really, why. How. How is that even something to complain about. Whewww.

A lot of people hate that Zimmer-esque sound that has become coming after Inception. It is a pretty common viewpoint I would say. This Zimmer influence on blockbuster scores (see Marvel movies as an example) has not gone over well in a lot of film score nerd circles.

 

[brandonh83]

A lot of people hate that Zimmer-esque sound that has become coming after Inception. It is a pretty common viewpoint I would say. This Zimmer influence on blockbuster scores (see Marvel movies as an example) has not gone over well in a lot of film score nerd circles.

Who cares. It's trailer music. It wasn't even out of place. And yeah I see people whine about "Zimmer influence" all the time, and that's because their wells have run dry. Most people lost their shit over how great the trailer music was in general, but let's nitpick on some dings at the beginning that perfectly sync with the atmosphere of the shots.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Alot of folks are divided on the trailer music, especially the opening piano which is commonly used nowadays in trailers (Rebel Force Radio showed examples from Age of Ultron, Jurassic World, Inception), single keys to show isolation.

Loved it personally

I don't think "a lot of folks" are divided at all. It's basically just the dude from Rebel Force Radio, who caught shit from his own listenerbase for it and then decided to double down anyway.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

Sure, Anakin brought balanced to the Force... how many billions of dead later?

Can't make an omelet without breakin' a few eggs, right?

I always assumed that the prophecy was misread by the Jedi. As in, they thought the whole "bring balance to the Force" was a good thing, but in actuality there was too much of the Light Side, and Anakin would be the one to bring "balance" by wiping out the Jedi.

Alternatively, you could say that Vader killing the Emperor was the "balance" moment, but then that would still imply that the Jedi thought there was an imbalance during the PT years, when the imbalance would not actually occur until the OT years.

Either way, they totally screwed up on that prophecy thing. But I still like Liam Neeson.

 

[LegendofLex]

I always assumed that the prophecy was misread by the Jedi. As in, they thought the whole "bring balance to the Force" was a good thing, but in actuality there was too much of the Light Side, and Anakin would be the one to bring "balance" by wiping out the Jedi.

Alternatively, you could say that Vader killing the Emperor was the "balance" moment, but then that would still imply that the Jedi thought there was an imbalance during the PT years, when the imbalance would not actually occur until the OT years.

I think this is the correct interpretation, honestly.

Mace Windu says he believes the Jedi's "ability to use the Force has diminished," and looking closely at some of the material accompanying the prequels (in particular the novelization of III) makes it clear that Palpatine had gained supreme mastery of the dark side and was using it to cast a shroud over the Jedi.

Removing Palpatine eliminates that shroud, thus restoring the natural "balance."

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Its no longer canon, but it was established by the offical Star Wars Fact File, that killing Palpatine was the moment where he brought the balance to the forcd

 

[Lebron]

The "main appeal of the OT" is entirely subjective. If you don't like the subversion of the Jedi, sorry, but for many other people including myself it works fine or even makes the story better.

I can't really argue that the PT fails to make it explicitly obvious that the Jedi are corrupt, but the material is certainly there. As with the rest of the PT, Lucas has the ideas but doesn't stick the landing - but even before TCW came out, many people in the fandom had come to the belief that the PT was supposed to show a deconstructed view of the Jedi as hierarchical organization. They're shown being the police for the Republic who are dragged into a war that they're not supposed to be fighting ("We're keepers of the peace, not soldiers"). Qui-Gon butts heads with the Council, going off and doing his own stuff ("Do not defy the council Maser, not again") talking about the Living Force and ends up being the first one to actually achieve life after death because of his unorthodox views. In AotC, Yoda talks about how arrogance is becoming increasingly more common in the Jedi ("A flaw more and more common among Jedi. Too sure of themselves they are. Even the older, more experienced ones."). The very fact that their ability to use the Force is diminishing is indicative of the fact that they aren't in proper communion with it, allowing Palpatine to cloud their vision through the dark side.

The fact that they do not allow relationships or attachment is one of the direct causes of Anakin's fall; we can easily see how Obi-Wan's more strict teachings failed Anakin, whereas someone more understanding like Qui-Gon would have been a better master for him. This particular policy is in complete opposition to what Luke discovers in RotJ, which is that love is what ultimately defeats the dark side. Even in the OT Yoda and Obi-Wan are still harping on how Luke has to be willing to sacrifice his friends to succeed, and that was before the PT ever came out. So the Jedi being aloof and dispassionate isn't some sort of retcon. And honestly, who cares if something is a retcon? This is Star Wars. The biggest twist in the entire franchise is a retcon. Leia's relationship to Luke is a retcon. The whole damn series is based on retcons. Retconning isn't a bad thing if it serves to enhance the storyline.

Dang A+ quality post.

 

[Sectorseven]

Emperor would have died anyway when they blew up the death star.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Emperor would have died anyway when they blew up the death star.

Palpatine was about to kilm the last Jedi, too

 

[Liamario]

I think it probably best that the prequel trilogy is completely ignored. It has raised more plot holes and issues that it has answered. A lot of what it did answer didn't need answering. This whole thing of bringing balance is a load of nonsense that Lucas fucking made up as he went along.
If you don't agree with that, surely you can see that Lucas' ability/interest in keeping continuity is flawed at best. Rather than retconning parts of the PT, he has decided in his 'infinite wisdom' to actually retcon and alter the OT. It boggles the mind.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Who gives a flying fuck about the opening piano when you get that insanely nostalgic "Love" theme from ESB firing up with choral resonance?

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

I think this is the correct interpretation, honestly.

Mace Windu says he believes the Jedi's "ability to use the Force has diminished," and looking closely at some of the material accompanying the prequels (in particular the novelization of III) makes it clear that Palpatine had gained supreme mastery of the dark side and was using it to cast a shroud over the Jedi.

Removing Palpatine eliminates that shroud, thus restoring the natural "balance."

Good points.

Emperor would have died anyway when they blew up the death star.

It's been a while since I've watched RotJ, and I don't remember how accurate this is, but I recall one of the EU authors (Zahn, probably?) essentially suggesting that the tide of the RotJ final battle turned only when Palpatine dies, as if his power over the dark side was causing the Empire to win the space battle and the battle on Endor. So when he died, it allowed the Rebellion to turn the tide of the battle and ultimately succeed.

In other words, the Death Star II maybe doesn't explode if Palpatine doesn't die first.

 

[Mœbius]

...

We can be friends.

 

[half a moon]

Good points.



It's been a while since I've watched RotJ, and I don't remember how accurate this is, but I recall one of the EU authors (Zahn, probably?) essentially suggesting that the tide of the RotJ final battle turned only when Palpatine dies, as if his power over the dark side was causing the Empire to win the space battle and the battle on Endor. So when he died, it allowed the Rebellion to turn the tide of the battle and ultimately succeed.

In other words, the Death Star II maybe doesn't explode if Palpatine doesn't die first.

That sounds stupid. How was the first Death Star destroyed then?

 

[PdotMichael]

Good points.



It's been a while since I've watched RotJ, and I don't remember how accurate this is, but I recall one of the EU authors (Zahn, probably?) essentially suggesting that the tide of the RotJ final battle turned only when Palpatine dies, as if his power over the dark side was causing the Empire to win the space battle and the battle on Endor. So when he died, it allowed the Rebellion to turn the tide of the battle and ultimately succeed.

In other words, the Death Star II maybe doesn't explode if Palpatine doesn't die first.

Where do they get all the talentless hacks?

 

[Liamario]

Who gives a flying fuck about the opening piano when you get that insanely nostalgic "Love" theme from ESB firing up with choral resonance?

Even with using the classic themes, the music was far too contemporary in its styling. I wouldn't mind that style for an anthology film, where they can experiment with such things. TFA isn't a reboot and while they should try an innovate, they still have to remember the roots of the series and try and keep their decisions within the realms of the existing 'Star Wars-isms'

 

[Toxi]

No, I don't buy - and I don't want to buy (because it ruins the whole series) - the insinuation that Obiwan, Yoda or Luke were "special" Jedis who really "got it", and most Jedis were actually corrupted jerks.

If the Jedi were corrupted, even in their pre-clone war state, the OT doesn't make sense. It means Luke shouldn't have wanted to revive the Jedi.

No this is all retcon nonsense to justify Lucas' unthinking portrayal of the Jedi. He sleepwalked into making them republic police because he didn't understand how that would ruin the view of them in the OT as a people with a better and more spiritually attuned way of life.

Obi-Wan and Yoda are hardly special. Yoda embodies all the orthodoxy of the old Jedi order, good and bad. In the OT, he refuses to take on Luke as his student at first and does not believe there was any good left in Darth Vader. In the PT, for all his wisdom his advice to Anakin is completely useless is pushing him away from the Dark Side. In Clone Wars, he

Spoiler

is willing to let Ahsoka Tahno be thrown to the wolves based on circumstantial evidence and then with no shame asks Ahsoka back into the Order when it turns out she was framed

. Yoda is a wise Jedi, but he makes quite a few mistakes that contribute to the fall of the Order.

Obi-Wan is better, but he still has problems. He lies to Luke about his parentage, not realizing how much trauma this would cause Luke when he found out. Like Yoda, he doesn't believe Luke can find good in his father. His vitriolic friendship with Anakin ends up alienating his student. And while in Clone Wars

Spoiler

he vehemently objects to exiling Ahsoka, he doesn't end up doing anything about it when the Council does it anyway. At least he shows shame over their actions when they try to invite Ahsoka back in.

Luke is special. In The Empire Strikes Back, Luke's recklessness and emotional attachment almost end up getting him corrupted and killed. Return of the Jedi puts him in a similar position when he insists he will try to redeem Anakin Skywalker even when Yoda and Obi-Wan tell him it's impossible. And despite the consequences of Luke's last mistake, he pushes on and ends up defeating the Emperor not through the Force, but through his love for a man who seemed irredeemable. Bobby Roberts said Return of the Jedi's ending is not about Vader's redemption, but Luke's victory, and he is right. Luke is the future of the Jedi because, after maturing, he still embraces his human aspects like emotional attachments instead of dispassionately distancing himself. That is why the ending of Return of the Jedi is so powerful; not because a mass-murdering butcher sees the error of his ways, but because Luke's faith in that man proves true.

Luke Skywalker often gets called "boring". I used to think he was "boring" because he seemed like a goodie-goodie two-shoes. But as I grew older, I saw how central his emotional journey and growth are to the series. Star Wars is his initial step into a larger world. Empire Strikes Back is about his greatest failure. And Return of the Jedi is about his vindication.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Where do they get all the talentless hacks?

Zahn isn't a talentless hack.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

TFA isn't a reboot and while they should try an innovate, they still have to remember the roots of the series and try and keep their decisions within the realms of the existing 'Star Wars-isms'

It's a commercial.

Besides which, it's not like it's some out of bounds stylistic decision. The piano has been around for a pretty long time. Playing it isn't as "trendy" as people are trying to make it out to be.

It's not like finding examples of film score incorporating it is super hard or anything. Hans Zimmer didn't invent "The Plink" or whatever people wanna call this.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

That sounds stupid. How was the first Death Star destroyed then?

Palpatine wasn't at the first Death Star during the Battle of Yavin. Presumably his power to influence has some kind of range limit.

Zahn isn't a talentless hack.

To be fair, I can't recall for sure if that was Zahn's proposition or not, though I think it was. I read quite a bit of EU stuff back in the day, so I could be confused. Anyone else know? Bobby Roberts, maybe?

 

[Liamario]

It's a commercial.

I realise that, but I'm concerned that they've decided to apply that style to the movie itself.

 

[PdotMichael]

Zahn isn't a talentless hack.

Relative to the other EU crowd?

Star Wars isn't some high level stuff but how the EU missed the point of Star Wars is some incredible stuff.

 

[Charles Foster Kane]

So what are we talking about now?