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Star Wars: The Force Awakens Final Trailer

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I wouldn't be surprised if they are close to picture lock at this point, with just scoring and VFX to be done. I'm sure there will be tinkering going on until the last possible moment, but the movie surely exists from start to finish in an nearly complete, albeit unfinished, form.
 
Sectorseven said:
Was it ever explained why Lucas never CGI'd Hayden over Sebastian Shaw? I know it was rumored for a long time.
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Unlike other changes like the Emperor and Boba Fett in ESB, I expect Shaw's performance and appearance were way too ingrained in cultural memory to erase them.

I can kinda get why Lucas would want to change Anakin's force ghost - the idea from the beginning was to give Anakin a restored physical form, and body-intact Shaw doesn't really look much like Hayden's Anakin - that hairline in particular.

But there's really nothing about the way Shaw looks/sounds during the death scene ROTJ (bar the eyebrows, I guess) that causes any blatant continuity problems. His head's a little rounder, I suppose, and of course he isn't as horribly deformed, but who knows how someone would recover from a burn like that in a sci-fi universe. (He obviously was able to fill out the Vader suit during those 20 years.)
 
LegendofLex said:
Unlike other changes like the Emperor and Boba Fett in ESB, I expect Shaw's performance and appearance were way too ingrained in cultural memory to erase them.

I can kinda get why Lucas would want to change Anakin's force ghost - the idea from the beginning was to give Anakin a restored physical form, and body-intact Shaw doesn't really look much like Hayden's Anakin - that hairline in particular.

But there's really nothing about the way Shaw looks/sounds during the death scene ROTJ (bar the eyebrows, I guess) that causes any blatant continuity problems. His head's a little rounder, I suppose, and of course he isn't as horribly deformed, but who knows how someone would recover from a burn like that in a sci-fi universe. (He obviously was able to fill out the Vader suit during those 20 years.)
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I guess it depends if you're assuming viewers have already seen the prequels. If you're watching these films in release order, the young Anakin at the end doesn't make any sense. It's like, "who is this guy?"
 
Sectorseven said:
I guess it depends if you're assuming viewers have already seen the prequels. If you're watching these films in release order, the young Anakin at the end doesn't make any sense. It's like, "who is this guy?"
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If you are watching the OT first, you never see a pre-Vader Anakin, and you'd obviously realize that whatever Anakin used to look like it surely isn't anything like that face you see when he takes his helmet off some 20 years after he became Vader (the audience can come to the reasonable conclusion that Anakin has been Vader for approximately Luke's whole life). It's fine.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
Apparently TFA still doesn't have a release date scheduled in China. People are hoping for sometime in January 2016, though.
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I've been saying for a few months that I don't think it will be released in China.

GAMEPROFF said:
Nobody gives a shit about Avatar anymore.
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Yet you won't stop talking about it.
 
Seventy_X_Seven said:
If you are watching the OT first, you never see a pre-Vader Anakin, and you'd obviously realize that whatever Anakin used to look like it surely isn't anything like that face you see when he takes his helmet off some 20 years after he became Vader (the audience can come to the reasonable conclusion that Anakin has been Vader for approximately Luke's whole life). It's fine.
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I don't know if I agree with that. I think a lot of people are initially going to be trying to figure out what they're looking at. And it's such a brief moment, by the time they've reached the conclusion Anakin has returned to his young self for some reason, the moment will have passed.
 
Sectorseven said:
I guess it depends if you're assuming viewers have already seen the prequels. If you're watching these films in release order, the young Anakin at the end doesn't make any sense. It's like, "who is this guy?"
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To be honest, this was also my question when I watched the pre-edited version back in 1997. I couldn't connect that fatherly ghost face to the bald pale man in the black suit.
 
MrBadger said:
giphy.gif
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They really should have put a body builder in that costume for Ep3.
 
Sectorseven said:
I don't know if I agree with that. I think a lot of people are initially going to be trying to figure out what they're looking at. And it's such a brief moment, by the time they've reached the conclusion Anakin has returned to his young self for some reason, the moment will have passed.
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But how is that any different than the original guy? Even if he's the same person from when the mask is taken off, he doesn't look very similar, at least not initially before that time passes. Plus you'd expect Anakin's force ghost to look like Anakin in his prime, not 40 something year old Anakin that looks like he never needed a suit and couldn't possibly of actually existed, but I'm not too sure how force ghosts work :p

Honestly I don't think either are recognizable immediately visually, but the viewer would use logical reasoning, I mean who else could it be? So changing it to prequel Anakin just adds some consistency. There's a lot of changes in the OT which are very bad, but this one always came off as fans trying to be upset.
 
Seventy_X_Seven said:
Plus you'd expect Anakin's force ghost to look like Anakin in his prime, not 40 something year old Anakin that looks like he never needed a suit and couldn't possibly of actually existed, but I'm not too sure how force ghosts work :p
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By that logic Obi Wan and Yoda should also look young and in their prime.

Something related to this that irks me...They make a point of shoving in the force ghost thing at the end of ROTS, but if it's such an esoteric technique that
it had to be explained to Obi Wan and Yoda via Qui Gon then how the hell does Anakin know how to do it.
 
Seventy_X_Seven said:
But how is that any different than the original guy? Even if he's the same person from when the mask is taken off, he doesn't look very similar, at least not initially before that time passes. Plus you'd expect Anakin's force ghost to look like Anakin in his prime, not 40 something year old Anakin that looks like he never needed a suit and couldn't possibly of actually existed, but I'm not too sure how force ghosts work :p

Honestly I don't think either are recognizable immediately visually, but the viewer would use logical reasoning, I mean who else could it be? So changing it to prequel Anakin just adds some consistency. There's a lot of changes in the OT which are very bad, but this one always came off as fans trying to be upset.
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It's just stupid and pointless. His face looked healed in the original, but it was the same guy. Hayden's floating head is stupid and distracting; it just doesn't fit (regardless of whatever explanation anyone might try to come up with to justify the change).

Easily the worst SE change by far. Leaves a bad taste for the end of the movie (and trilogy).
 
Seventy_X_Seven said:
But how is that any different than the original guy? Even if he's the same person from when the mask is taken off, he doesn't look very similar, at least not initially before that time passes. Plus you'd expect Anakin's force ghost to look like Anakin in his prime, not 40 something year old Anakin that looks like he never needed a suit and couldn't possibly of actually existed, but I'm not too sure how force ghosts work :p
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The canonical reason that Anakin appears as Hayden Christiansen is pretty much exactly what Obi-Wan tells Luke.

"Your father was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true, from a certain point of view."

Think of Vader as a separate being, a malevolent dark side Sith entity that has claimed Anakin's life for its own. Think of it this way and everything with his sudden turn and actions makes much more sense as well; I'm always reminded of the unearthly noises that come from Palpatine when he is anointing Vader in RotS - the dark side is not a mere choice, it's alive. It has a will of its own. When Anakin returns, having spent two decades "possessed" by the evil Darth Vader, it is as if his soul returns to the state it was at when he was last "the good man who was your father".

No, it doesn't make sense logically, but it makes sense poetically and mythologically, and that's why George did it. Filoni has echoed this idea that it was done simply because it makes poetic sense.

Something related to this that irks me...They make a point of shoving in the force ghost thing at the end of ROTS, but if it's such an esoteric technique that
it had to be explained to Obi Wan and Yoda via Qui Gon then how the hell does Anakin know how to do it.
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George told Dave Filoni the reason but Filoni refuses to tell anyone else. He has hinted, however, that it is due to the idea of life actually existing beyond death being planted in his mind by his experience on Mortis, probably combined with him being the Chosen One.
 
CD'S BAR said:
By that logic Obi Wan and Yoda should also look young and in their prime.

Something related to this that irks me...They make a point of shoving in the force ghost thing at the end of ROTS, but if it's such an esoteric technique that
it had to be explained to Obi Wan and Yoda via Qui Gon then how the hell does Anakin know how to do it.
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That's not the logic I was using. Obi wan and Yoda got to grow old, Anakin never did, he was consumed in the machine. I'm saying he'd either look like the last time he was truly human, or he'd look like the scarred pale humpty dumpty. He wouldn't look like a scarred pale humpty dumpty except not scarred and not pale because even for first time watchers starting with the OT there's no way he could of ever looked like that since it was known he became Vader around Luke's birth so he'd have to look younger.

Granted, we were never told how long he had the suit until the prequels.


As for the second part of that, someone earlier stated that the technique was something along the lines of accepting the dark side in you but not letting it take control, or something like that. Silly sure, but if we're bringing up ROTS then we can use prequel logic. Therefore, Anakin had done that without specifically training for it.
 
George should have gone with kid Anakin instead. Would have been fucking offensive too, but it would have made more sense in the "last time he was good" logic.

Should have just pasted a kid Anakin floating head in the old man's body. That would have been interesting.
 
Remember that Star Wars is space fantasy. It doesn't really matter what the nitty gritty logic of anything in it is. The Force isn't mechanistic. That's something fans and the old EU writers love to dwell on but it's not suitable for an actual space opera. Anakin doesn't need to appear as he did when he was dying.

That said, I would like Hayden-ghost much more if it had been shot better.
 
Charles Foster Kane said:
George should have gone with kid Anakin instead. Would have been fucking offensive too, but it would have made more sense in the "last time he was good" logic.

Should have just pasted a kid Anakin floating head in the old man's body. That would have been interesting.
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Its not even "last time he was good." I'm having difficulty explaining myself. It's moreso physically, using only OT knowledge, we know something happened that forced him into the machine suit. The ghost that appears originally is a ghost of a 40 something year old in prefect health, which he never could of actually looked like. So it would either be a younger version of himself before his injuries or a crippled version of him, depending on how you want force ghosts to work. But eh, the concept of force ghosts is silly enough that it doesn't really bother me either way.
 
You know what would have been cool imo, if they ended ROTS with Anakin just being charred to hell in a hospital or something, or bandaged up, and we never see the Vader suit or hear the name Vader at all in that movie. So if you're watching them in numerical order you're kind of left wondering where Anakin is at the start of IV and who this Vader guy is. Then you find out explicitly in Empire so there's still some surprise to the viewer.

And so also we're left not knowing when exactly he got the suit on. Takes care of the force ghost thing in that sense.

That would have taken quite a bit of restraint, though.
 
These conversations remind me how much I despise the special editions and just make me bitter lol.

Blessed Harmy. I would be much more bitter if the SE were all we had in decent quality. I wouldn't even hate on the SE if we only had the choice to get an official unaltered OT.
 
How to create a force ghost in canon 101.

1. Train your mind to accept your dark side. but not let it take the best from you. This is were many Jedi failed

2. Your mind must reject the easy sorrow-free paths

3. Your mind must not succumb to temptations of a perfect world. It must always accept reality.

A mind that masters all this it will retain its identity and individuality when it joins the force. Once you're part of the force. You can control midichlorians at will. Allowing you to create an image of yourself through them for living (force sensitive) people to see.

If you're not ready you join the force's will and lose who you are. and if your mind is at an incomplete stage of preparation. You'll only be able to manifest as a voice.

Source: The Clone Wars

Vaders turn back to Anakin can be interpretes to include all that necessary discipline.
 
Sectorseven said:
Sounds like Obi-Wan and Yoda got a raw deal. Be a murderer and repent on your deathbed and become a good looking ghost.
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Again, if you think of Anakin and Vader as two separate beings, it makes much more sense. Vader essentially is a different person anyway, a being of pure hatred created upon the failure and death of the hero; when Anakin returns to "life", he kills Vader. Think of things in more mystical terms.

You know what would have been cool imo, if they ended ROTS with Anakin just being charred to hell in a hospital or something, or bandaged up, and we never see the Vader suit or hear the name Vader at all in that movie. So if you're watching them in numerical order you're kind of left wondering where Anakin is at the start of IV and who this Vader guy is. Then you find out explicitly in Empire so there's still some surprise to the viewer.

And so also we're left not knowing when exactly he got the suit on. Takes care of the force ghost thing in that sense.
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Why would Obi-Wan know that Anakin is Vader then?

Fj0823 said:
How to create a force ghost in canon 101.

1. Train your mind to accept your dark side. but not let it take the best from you. This is were many Jedi failed

2. Your mind must reject the easy sorrow-free paths

3. Your mind must not succumb to temptations of a perfect world. It must always accept reality.
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Yes. Integrate the shadow and overcome the yin-yang duality. See the Force in its entirety and reject dogma. Let the Living Force guide you and you become its servant. It is interesting that those who learn to completely reject their autonomy in the true fashion, rather than the institutionalized fashion of the Jedi Order, gain the ability to maintain their individuality after death, while those who box themselves in with rules and regulations to try to achieve this are unable to become truly enlightened (or that those who desperately want to maintain their individuality and eternal life, the Sith, are unable to ever gain it and instead are obliterated, returning to the life stream of the Cosmic Force). Those who achieve oneness with the Force basically experience nirvana and become enlightened. It's very space-Buddhist-Taoist-whatever.
 
sphagnum said:
Again, if you think of Anakin and Vader as two separate beings, it makes much more sense. Vader essentially is a different person anyway, a being of pure hatred created upon the failure and death of the hero; when Anakin returns to "life", he kills Vader. Think of things in more mystical terms.



Why would Obi-Wan know that Anakin is Vader then?
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I don't know because he sensed it or something or discovered it some time in those years between III and IV. This alternate version could still end with him being the Emperor's lap dog. It'd be a logical assumption I think. How does he know it in the actual movies, just because he's referred to as Vader in the holograms in III? Not being facetious I don't actually recall.
 
CD'S BAR said:
I don't know because he sensed it or something or discovered it some time in those years between III and IV. This alternate version could still end with him being the Emperor's lap dog. It'd be a logical assumption I think. How does he know it in the actual movies, just because he's referred to as Vader in the holograms in III? Not being facetious I don't actually recall.
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Yeah, it's from that moment, when he watches the hologram of Palpatine saying "Now Lord Vader, go and bring peace to the Empire" and Yoda saying immediately after "The boy you traine, gone he is. Consumed by Darth Vader."
 
Was Boba Fett always in ANH? I saw him with Jabba after the scene where Jabba is talking to Han and I thought it was weird, lol. I also thought that Boba was introduced in ESB, is this not the case?
 
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