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[papo]

So the leaked footage comes from a beta version? lol

The screenshot comes from 1 question out of an entire conversation in the beginning of the game by some random NPC that comes to your door to sell you stuff.

Wait until the game is out and you get to experience it on your own. Not from some biased comparison shot. I'm sure they can make it look the other way round too.

 

[Astarte]

We don't know. We haven't even seen a full conversation yet. We have no real idea how this works in practice. All we have is a translation of Spanish leaker. Not say he's wrong or anything, but it's not exactly a very clear picture of things.

Then I hope for the sake of my interest that the dialogue options aren't just some Dragon Age 2 levels of garbage.

 

[malingenie]

The main problem is that you don't have a clue what your character will actually say, just a general idea that might be totally not what you intended. (See: LA Noire's dialog options)

Those were so fucked up.

It's like the choice was "dubious" and the actual dialogue was "I will ram this gun in your throat if you dont tell the truth!"

 

[Golden Hamster]

It's hilarious. Morrowind got a 89 on metacritic. Oblivion dumbed down Morrowind's systems and got a 94. Skyrim further dumbed down Oblivion and also got a 94. People are straight delusional if they think that adding a massive undertaking with a fully voiced main character will damage the review score. If anything I expect it to score higher than FO3, which scored roughly a 91.

 

[foxtrot3d]

The screenshot comes from 1 question out of an entire conversation in the beginning of the game by some random NPC that comes to your door to sell you stuff.

Wait until the game is out and you get to experience it on your own. Not from some biased comparison shot. I'm sure they can make it look the other way round too.

This is what I'm hoping, I cannot believe that they would think having such limited dialogue choices was a good design decision.

 

[Askherserenity]

The screenshot comes from 1 question out of an entire conversation in the beginning of the game by some random NPC that comes to your door to sell you stuff.

Wait until the game is out and you get to experience it on your own. Not from some biased comparison shot. I'm sure they can make it look the other way round too.

We've seen videos/pictures of later on in the game that look exactly the same as that picture.

Leaker is around 20 hours in last I heard.

 

[Harmen]

I don't mind a dialogue wheel to be honest (since these mostly reflect the options that would be there anyways, I don't see the problem of the concept), but does the game at least have full and informative conversations with different paths? And Investigate tabs?

 

[Trace]

What part did Skyrim dumb down from Oblivion?

They removed multiple stats, dumbed down the faction system, removed much of the complexity from the magic system. Also pretty much removed the mage's guild.

 

[malingenie]

Bought Divinity thinking the same thing. But i'm having so damn much fun with the game i don't know if i can put it down once Fallout 4 is released.

Same boat! I'm co-oping it and it's probably the best co-op experience i've had on my PC EVER. Combat is so creative and fun!

 

[timkunedo]

I wonder if anyone in this thread is complaining. Let's take a look.......


edit: yep. Ah well. Day 1 from that video in the OP.

 

[EviLore]

Lets be fair. In that scene it didn't matter what you picked because all she wanted was "Your answer". What is true for you. First time I played it I picked "love", and that was correct because it was my answer.

So it would be more like

I don't know. (Y)
(X) Sarcastic. Give my answer. (B)
................... (A) [Shoot Ravel]


Maybe not as neat as having 10 choices ranging from power to love to nothing but the answer would still be the same.

You just described the entire point of that scene and why all the options were important: to be able to get as close as possible to choosing the answer that really felt right to the player. It's not about having a right answer or a wrong answer, just having your answer. It's the fundamental embodiment of roleplaying.

Replacing that list with:

(B) My answer

to then be spoken in whatever singular arbitrary predetermined way by the voice actor, having no idea what is actually going to be said ahead of time, is not the same. It's the opposite.

 

[afternoon delight]

Bethesda actually managed to do worse with the dialog system than some devout Fallout fans predicted, I'm actually shocked. Disgusting impressions so far.

 

[zerodeefex]

Well, I'll wait and see. I loved daggerfall and skyrim but hated morrowind and oblivion. I've consistently enjoyed the Fallout series, though. Even after Wasteland 2, I'm cautiously optimistic about this game.

 

[Machina]

They removed multiple stats, dumbed down the faction system, removed much of the complexity from the magic system. Also pretty much removed the mage's guild.

Are you serious? The Mages Guild have an entire castle to themselves in Skyrim with many interesting quests.

 

[Zombie James]

What part did Skyrim dumb down from Oblivion?

Not specifically Oblivion, but...

It's gotten to the point where even if you choose to disable the quest marker, they give you so little information you can't complete quests without it.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Well, I'll wait and see. I loved daggerfall and skyrim but hated morrowind and oblivion. I've consistently enjoyed the Fallout series, though. Even after Wasteland 2, I'm cautiously optimistic about this game.

I'll bet this game crashes less than Wasteland 2.

 

[Trace]

Are you serious? The Mages Guild have an entire castle to themselves in Skyrim with many interesting quests.

Yes, and the mage's guild in Oblivion has a building in every single town, as well as an entire university connected to the Imperial City. It is also a much longer quest chain, and rewards you better for your time.

 

[papo]

We've seen videos/pictures of later on in the game that look exactly the same as that picture.

Leaker is around 20 hours in last I heard.

Leaker might be further in, but the screenshot in question is comparing what looks like a dialogue from the beginning of the game with more advanced dialogue from later on. Even then the actaul dialogue most likely is longer.

But I really don't wanna get into it because I am not seeing any more videos to spoil myself.

 

[Enduin]

Yes, and the mage's guild in Oblivion has a building in every single town, as well as an entire university connected to the Imperial City. It is also a much longer quest chain, and rewards you better for your time.

Isn't that more an issue with the fact the Skyrim in universe is a place that is rather adverse and disinterested in Magic to begin with?

 

[Staf]

Same boat! I'm co-oping it and it's probably the best co-op experience i've had on my PC EVER. Combat is so creative and fun!

I'm co-oping it with the GF on the PS4. We are having so much fun and our characters argues even more than we do! I'm actually investing all my skills into the persuasion skills just so i for once can win an argument!

 

[papo]

Not specifically Oblivion, but...

It's gotten to the point where even if you choose to disable the quest marker, they give you so little information you can't complete quests without it.

And this is why I L O V E D that I found a game like Divinty Original Sin. All hope is not lost in the dumbing down of video games, just recent ones from popular developers.

 

[callsignkrogan]

the dialogue wheel i'm sure is fine. The wheel is just to give you a preview of what the character is going to say. I think it helps keep you focused since you will be paying more attention to what the character is going to say.

 

[diamount]

They removed multiple stats, dumbed down the faction system, removed much of the complexity from the magic system. Also pretty much removed the mage's guild.

A lot of the stats were redundant as is, such as having acrobatics and agility as two separate things. The lack of factions has nothing to do with dumbing it down, so usage of the word is a bit weird.

 

[Trace]

Isn't that more an issue with the fact the Skyrim in universe is a place that is rather adverse and disinterested in Magic to begin with?

They can give it whatever lore reason they want, it's still a much simpler magic system with less quests involving it, less characters and less interesting choices. It doesn't even have custom spell creation, a massive system removal.

 

[Machina]

Isn't that more an issue with the fact the Skyrim in universe is a place that is rather adverse and disinterested in Magic to begin with?

Pretty much. Their isolation is intentional because the world around them is pretty hostile to their presence.

I dunno man, some of this stuff is bordering on revisionist history.

 

[Real Hero]

Press X to pay respects to the memory of when fallout was good

 

[Windom Earle]

And this is why I L O V E D that I found a game like Divinty Original Sin. All hope is not lost in the dumbing down of video games, just recent ones from popular developers.

I really need to buy Divinity.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Not specifically Oblivion, but...

It's gotten to the point where even if you choose to disable the quest marker, they give you so little information you can't complete quests without it.

Aye, that makes me a wee bit sad.

 

[Golden Hamster]

Press X to pay respects to the memory of when fallout was good

you edited before I could make fun of you

 

[Ashura_MX]

The screenshot comes from 1 question out of an entire conversation in the beginning of the game by some random NPC that comes to your door to sell you stuff.

Wait until the game is out and you get to experience it on your own. Not from some biased comparison shot. I'm sure they can make it look the other way round too.

I've seen the 20 minute leaked footage, I'm not even talking or caring about the single screenshot.

For the record I'm not bitching right now about the poor choices (but I don't like them), I'm just not liking the UI at this point. i'm in the "let's wait and see camp".

Edit: I'm not even sure why you would talk about a single screenshot in a thread titled "leaked footage". (Yes I get you may have not seen the footage because spoilers but still)

 

[Real Hero]

you edited before I could make fun of you

 

[vocab]

What part did Skyrim dumb down from Oblivion?

Reactivity for starters. You could kill an important figure head, or get promoted to some high rank, and the guards treat you like a common person. The world does not give a fuck about anything you do.

 

[lazygecko]

Are you serious? The Mages Guild have an entire castle to themselves in Skyrim with many interesting quests.

The College quest line in Skyrim was suspiciously vague and confusing, and digging through game files pretty much confirms suspicions that it was heavily changed and cut down in scope during development to make the deadline. As was the case with many other quests in the game (Civil war has like over half of its content disabled, Companions questline was pitiful with nameless bandits taking the place of actual antiagonists, an equivalent to the arena quest in Oblivion taken out, etc). The quality of the quests were one of the absolute low points of Skyrim, and this was more or less the price paid to have it ship on its original release date without any delays.

That precedent doesn't really inspire me with confidence over Fallout 4's quests either, considering how little stock Bethesda seems to put in them now.

 

[Staf]

I really need to buy Divinity.

You really do.

 

[StopMakingSense]

All I really remember about Skyrim is basically randomized caves with Draugr in them.

And occasional dragons.

 

[Red Hood]

Not specifically Oblivion, but...

It's gotten to the point where even if you choose to disable the quest marker, they give you so little information you can't complete quests without it.

I see this image being posted so often to the point that I don't think the majority of them actually understand it. People tend to forget how much of a clusterfuck Morrowind could be, getting lost left and right, sometimes without any sense of either direction or progression. And people expect a similar thing in a game as huge as Skyrim? Nah man, ain't gonna happen.

There's a subtle difference between appreciating player intelligence and creating comfort, both Morrowind and Skyrim are on the extreme opposite sides of the spectrum. I have yet to see an open world game that does this absolutely perfect. As a recent example, Witcher 3 does this the same as Skyrim as well and we rarely hear about it.

 

[superseohyun]

Lets be fair. In that scene it didn't matter what you picked because all she wanted was "Your answer". What is true for you. First time I played it I picked "love", and that was correct because it was my answer.

So it would be more like

I don't know. (Y)
(X) Sarcastic. Give my answer. (B)
................... (A) [Shoot Ravel]


Maybe not as neat as having 10 choices ranging from power to love to nothing but the answer would still be the same.

good god that would killed that scene.

 

[bonesmccoy]

Watched vid. Pre-ordered. : D

 

[Pilgrimzero]

You just described the entire point of that scene and why all the options were important: to be able to get as close as possible to choosing the answer that really felt right to the player. It's not about having a right answer or a wrong answer, just having your answer. It's the fundamental embodiment of roleplaying.

Replacing that list with:

(B) My answer

to then be spoken in whatever singular arbitrary predetermined way by the voice actor, having no idea what is actually going to be said ahead of time, is not the same. It's the opposite.

I do admit I agonized over picking the right option because I knew I was dead if I chose wrong. So yea, you're totally right there.

Damn that scene was brilliant.

It's never going to get better than Torment.

 

[Windom Earle]

You really do.

I currently have Witcher 3 with only a few hours played and also am highly interested in Undertale. Add Divinity on top and maybe I should just skip Fallout for a while. Will be buggy anyway and the review thread should provide more entertainment than the game itself.

 

[Farks!]

Well, count me among those who are not getting this game on release (if at all). The conversation system and its writing has been a hallmark of Fallout since the original game, and it seems like Bethesda has put the axe to it for no good reason.

 

[Askherserenity]

All I really remember about Skyrim is basically randomized caves with Draugr in them.

And occasional dragons.

All those caves are pretty much just one yawn inducing cave in my head. Hopefully they don't do this with FO4.

 

[Aaron D.]

You know what I miss?

Graph paper.

Yup.

Never been the same since.

 

[Jeronimo Jones]

what?

People want to know the exact responses so they have more control of their character, but how much difference will dialog choices make in the grand scheme of things? It still comes down to accept quest/reject quest/fight to the death.

Ultimately, the plot/quests won't move ahead until you select one of the "right" dialog choices regardless of what the options are. The illusion of control.

 

[rjinaz]

I see this image being posted so often to the point that I don't think the majority of them actually understand it. People tend to forget how much of a clusterfuck Morrowind could be, getting lost left and right, sometimes without any sense of either direction or progression. And people expect a similar thing in a game as huge as Skyrim? Nah man, ain't gonna happen.

There's a subtle difference between appreciating player intelligence and creating comfort, both Morrowind and Skyrim are on the extreme opposite sides of the spectrum. I have yet to see an open world game that does this absolutely perfect.

Yeah I mean honestly that sounds kind of horrible to me. Walking around town having to talk to everybody in hopes you come across the right NPC with the information you need. That's not a good time for me. I love the quest markers. I can understand people that don't though, but then again, Skyrim was one of my favorite games ever so these games are basically made for people like me.

 

[Peff]

I currently have Witcher 3 with only a few hours played and also am highly interested in Undertale. Add Divinity on top and maybe I should just skip Fallout for a while. Will be buggy anyway and the review thread should provide more entertainment than the game itself.

That's probably a good idea regardless of how good/polished Fallout 4 turns out to be. These three games more than deserve the time and attention.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Not specifically Oblivion, but...

It's gotten to the point where even if you choose to disable the quest marker, they give you so little information you can't complete quests without it.

Fuck it man I have a job lol. More power to you piecing together breadcrumbs but my attention span isn't about that life.

 

[FleckSplat]

We know the dialogue system is changed for the worse, now I just hope the deep, immersive journals and logs found around the world are still there.

Nothing like inferring what happened somewhere, getting an idea in your head, and then finding you were right because you read the former mayor's journal at a terminal.

 

[foxtrot3d]

Yeah I mean honestly that sounds kind of horrible to me. Walking around town having to talk to everybody in hopes you come across the right NPC with the information you need. That's not a good time for me. I love the quest markers. I can understand people that don't though, but then again, Skyrim was one of my favorite games ever so these games are basically made for people like me.

People walk around with nostalgia glasses for Morrowind and seem to forget all of its major problems. Now, I LOVE Morrwind and think it is the best Bethesda game and I played it after I played Oblivion and Skyrim. However, Morrowind was not great because I had to turn back 20 pages in my journal to remember what that one asshole said to me about where to go to beat this quest and what his name was so I could return to him after. Morrowind was great because it had a great setting and a great story that complimented its free form/exploration gameplay. It didn't shuttle you down a specific "main" quest line, it was a "Shandified" narrative where all quests were essentially part of the main quest. It was about exploration of the culture and decline of the Dunmer people.

 

[TimeEffect]

Not specifically Oblivion, but...

It's gotten to the point where even if you choose to disable the quest marker, they give you so little information you can't complete quests without it.

Never played Morrowind, but I would completely love that kind of questing.

I hate following the radar thing. This seems like a solid example of dumbing down the gameplay.