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[Fuchsdh]

she just wants to reclassify it as a schedule II drug? lol, fuck outta here

Marijuana legalization is going to happen state-by-state. Expecting the federal government to do much more than modest decriminalization and allowing the states to do that is expecting way too much.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Because she's just saying things to get elected. She won't actually fight for them.

yeah i don't know where this garbage perception came from that presidents regularly break a majority of their campaign promises, but it hasn't been true since at least the early 20th century

I thought there was a recent study that concluded that most politicians actually DO follow through with their campaign promises.

you remember correctly

[...] I keep running into the same reaction: Who cares? It’s a fool’s game to spend too much time analyzing campaign policy proposals. Everyone knows that politicians make all kinds of crazy promises during elections that they jettison as soon as they take office.

At least everyone thinks they know that. But it’s not true. In an article for the January/February issue of the Washington Monthly, political scientist Jonathan Bernstein argues that the evidence on this point is clear: “Presidents usually try to enact the policies they advocate during the campaign.”

 

[FyreWulff]

she just wants to reclassify it as a schedule II drug? lol, fuck outta here

It would allow states to more easily legalize it at the state level without federal downsides that come with being schedule I. Bernie's plan also leaves legalization to the states - he's just getting rid of the federal restrictions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Schedule_II_drugs_(US)

Schedule 1 and 2 are much farther apart in restrictions than their numbering indicates. It would mean the federal government officially recognizes that marijuana has medical benefits.

 

[Aureon]

When average life expectancy for men in the US is 76, being 74 when signing up for an 8-year job is kind of a problem.

That's really not how life expectancy works, though.
If you made it to 74yo (65%) making it to 82(42%) is a (42/65) shot, that is, 66%+
But there's also a lot of secondary factors in health history, wealth, violence and whatnot.
Bernie is well-placed, as a non-obese man and non-smoker (i think?).

 

[Ty4on]

When average life expectancy for men in the US is 76, being 74 when signing up for an 8-year job is kind of a problem.

From birth, not from his current age which is more relevant because that number is affected by people dying in their teens and twenties etc. By putting Bernie Sander's date of birth into Social Security's Life Expectancy Calculator I got 86.7.

 

[teruterubozu]

And going as Bernie as VP just to placate his fans isn't?

I'm not American but unless we're assuming that Bernie's fans are so childish they'd rather vote for a Republican than Hillary, he doesn't really bring anything to her campaign. Whereas going with Julian Castro (or his brother) would not only appeal to a discriminated minority but also help set up a rising Democratic star for a presidential run in the future.

At least she's playing match-the-policies with Bernie. That's certainly a higher fruit than "let's placate a demographic".

 

[BibiMaghoo]

the thing is, marijuana shouldn't be illegal even if it had no medicinal value.

So much this. It beggars belief that in the modern world something far less harmful than legal items, are illegal. It makes no sense on any level, other than historically, which was all about the money.

 

[Khaos_Knight]

How about just straight up legalizing it?

Hillary is just pandering for more "donations" from her corporate benefactors.

This fuck isn't going to do shit.

Hopefully this piece of shit either dies before the elections, drops out of the race or continues and takes the L she rightfully deserves.

 

[Cloyster]

I will never understand the hesitance to legalize this drug.

 

[billeh]

I really hate that marijuana legalization as an issue boils down to 'lol college kids 420 blaze up bro' 9/10. There are so many nonviolent weed-related prisoners from the racist-ass Reefer Madness style of thinking that it's disgusting. And this is all besides the fact that weed is mostly harmless. And of course alcohol ...

 

[John Dunbar]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...dly-anyone-dies-from-overdosing-10301780.html

look at all those godless nordic countries killing themselves with drugs. jesus is the only drug that can save you.

 

[Austriacus]

How about just straight up legalizing it?

Hillary is just pandering for more "donations" from her corporate benefactors.

This fuck isn't going to do shit.

Hopefully this piece of shit either dies before the elections, drops out of the race or continues and takes the L she rightfully deserves.

What the hell is wrong with you.

 

[lednerg]

Just to be clear, Bernie and other legalization advocates want marijuana to be removed from the schedules altogether and have it be treated like alcohol and tobacco. A Schedule II classification puts it on the same level as cocaine and meth.

 

[teruterubozu]

Just to be clear, Bernie and other legalization advocates want marijuana to be removed from the schedules altogether and have it be treated like alcohol and tobacco. A Schedule II classification puts it on the same level as cocaine and meth.

Yay Hillary! Listening to the will of the people.

 

[Pellegri Testament]

I'm honestly wondering what some of you people are so afraid of when it comes to more research being done on the effects of marijuana. Wouldn't you want to know wtf it's doing if it's more than just you getting high off it (not like anyone would stop even if they came up with hard evidence against it)? They want to make absolutely sure there is nothing wrong with it before it becomes too widespread and every state eventually legalizes it, before they really aren't able to do shit about it. "Not being able to do anything about it" like you know, maybe how guns are?

Calling for someone's death because they want to take away "your precious" isn't exactly a good way to show support for something either.

 

[BertramCooper]

How about just straight up legalizing it?

Hillary is just pandering for more "donations" from her corporate benefactors.

This fuck isn't going to do shit.

Hopefully this piece of shit either dies before the elections, drops out of the race or continues and takes the L she rightfully deserves.

I get the vitriol Hillary gets from the right.

But the straight-up hateful bullshit like this that she gets from the left perplexes me.

 

[teruterubozu]

Could be libertarian. Hard to tell.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Hopefully this piece of shit either dies before the elections, drops out of the race or continues and takes the L she rightfully deserves.

Classy. I'm curious which candidate you support.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Classy. I'm curious which candidate you support.

It's going to be Sanders (again) and I'm going to have to be embarrassed about the company I share (again). It wouldn't be so bad were it not for the fact that a lot of people get turned off from Sanders by some of the weirder aspects of his fan base, which is a shame when he's such a fantastic candidate.

 

[phanphare]

Marijuana legalization is going to happen state-by-state. Expecting the federal government to do much more than modest decriminalization and allowing the states to do that is expecting way too much.

marijuana legalization is going to happen state by state

that's why reclassifying it as a schedule II drug is such a joke

 

[SpookyFries]

Hillary reminds me of that kid in elementary school who promises to make soda 25¢ cheaper and make recess longer just to get votes for class president

 

[Manmademan]

Also I don't know how reclassifying marijuana will help with the underling issue of it being used as a pretext to wage war on minorities and youth. Voter suppression is also not allowing convicts to vote, personally not only marijuana should be legalized but anyone in jail for non-violent/trafficking drug offenses should be released and record cleared.
This is why in the other thread I mentioned Bernie is not going far enough with his stance on marijuana there is a far greater issue at hand.

A roadblock to legalization is that there "aren't sufficient studies" proving marijuana is harmless to make legalizing it feasible across the board.

the reason why there are no studies is because you cannot conduct studies on schedule 1 drugs as they have no legitimate medical value. its a circular argument.

move marijuana from schedule 1 to 2, and independent research to give you the data you need to move it off of the schedule entirely becomes possible.

 

[teruterubozu]

A roadblock to legalization is that there "aren't sufficient studies" proving marijuana is harmless to make legalizing it feasible across the board.

the reason why there are no studies is because you cannot conduct studies on schedule 1 drugs as they have no legitimate medical value. its a circular argument.

move marijuana from schedule 1 to 2, and independent research to give you the data you need to move it off of the schedule entirely becomes possible.

But states bypassed that with Medical Marijuana laws. It's all hogwash. She should have remained mute on this, this half-assed position does nothing for voters.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

How about just straight up legalizing it?

Hillary is just pandering for more "donations" from her corporate benefactors.

This fuck isn't going to do shit.

Hopefully this piece of shit either dies before the elections, drops out of the race or continues and takes the L she rightfully deserves.

Um what the fuck?

 

[Manmademan]

But states bypassed that with Medical Marijuana laws. It's all hogwash. She should have remained mute on this, this half-assed position does nothing for voters.

SOME states bypassed it with medical marijuana laws, and some of those that did have implementations that don't make a whole lot of sense.

"Leaving it up to the states" ends up with a patchwork of nonsense laws and some that will flat out refuse to do anything, and the obamacare situation is a perfect example of this. The entire bible belt refuses to expand medicaid despite the advantages of doing so just as a "fuck you" to Obama.

Mississippi didn't bother to ratify the 13th amendment until 1995.

There are some things the federal government needs to take the lead on to set a standard. State legalization can push things in the right direction, but in no way is it viable as a final solution- unless you enjoy having to figure out whether that joint is legal for you to carry when driving cross country on a state by state basis.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I thought there was a recent study that concluded that most politicians actually DO follow through with their campaign promises.

It's the same bargain bin cynism that people who claim "Both parties are the same!" wear to look decently knowledgeable in the politics without having to actually know much or anything

 

[teruterubozu]

Not "SOME." 23 states, almost half the nation and counting. It's gonna happen on a state-by state level (even county-by-county) whether we like it or not. It's just the political reality.

 

[RumblingRosco]

Just to be clear, Bernie and other legalization advocates want marijuana to be removed from the schedules altogether and have it be treated like alcohol and tobacco. A Schedule II classification puts it on the same level as cocaine and meth.

Blows my mind that marijuana is a higher classification right now than meth and cocaine.

 

[And_Gignac]

Hillary really is the Romney of the Democrats. Anyway, whatever the outcome of the primaries, Bernie Sanders already won. He made Clinton to become a mini, light version of him. Sadly I am expecting Clinton to back track on many of the hard liberal position she has recently taken as soon as the generals begin.

 

[phanphare]

Not "SOME." 23 states, almost half the nation and counting. It's gonna happen on a state-by state level (even county-by-county) whether we like it or not. It's just the political reality.

this is why removing it altogether is the way to go here. that way you actually leave it up to the states and allow them to operate freely. reclassifying it as a schedule II drug does nothing for the current status quo except line the pockets of the drug industry and make hillary look like she's moving left on a popular issue. it's a politically savvy move but the curtain is wide open.

 

[noshten]

A roadblock to legalization is that there "aren't sufficient studies" proving marijuana is harmless to make legalizing it feasible across the board.

the reason why there are no studies is because you cannot conduct studies on schedule 1 drugs as they have no legitimate medical value. its a circular argument.

move marijuana from schedule 1 to 2, and independent research to give you the data you need to move it off of the schedule entirely becomes possible.

As candidate for the United States, you'd think politicians would adopt a more common sense position. But they are too afraid to go against the tide, for marijuana legalization the tide has already turned. And literally everyone in the democratic field doesn't want to have people in jail for non-violent drug related crimes. The war on drugs is racist and has had an adverse effect on the African American community - it's the correct political position to be in favor of decriminalization of drugs and adoption of Portugal's approach which has had no adverse effects over the last 12 years and other European states have followed suit.

The Portuguese experiment has been in action since Law 30/2000 went into effect nearly 12 years ago, and Goulão's staff is currently calculating how much money the country's judicial system has saved, in its courts and prisons, now that it no longer has to process individuals the police catch with a few grams of drugs.

"The police still search people for drugs," Goulão points out. Hashish, cocaine, ecstasy -- Portuguese police still seize and destroy all these substances.

Before doing so, though, they first weigh the drugs and consult the official table with the list of 10-day limits. Anyone possessing drugs in excess of these amounts is treated as a dealer and charged in court. Anyone with less than the limit is told to report to a body known as a "warning commission on drug addiction" within the next 72 hours.

In Lisbon, for example, the local drug addiction commission is housed on the first floor of an unremarkable office building. The idea is that no one should feel uncomfortable about being seen here. A 19-year-old in a white polo shirt waits in one room. Police caught him over the weekend with about a gram of hashish. A social worker has already questioned him for half an hour and learned that he attended vocational training at an agricultural school, lives with his parents and smokes pot now and then. This was the first time he was caught in possession of drugs.

"Social user, no risk factors present," the social worker notes.

Next, a psychologist and a lawyer speak to the young man. They want to know if he's aware of the dangers of cannabis.

"Yeah, yeah, from school," he says. "We had a class on prevention."

As long as he isn't caught again within the next three months, his case will be closed. "We won't inform anyone that you were here and this won't go on your record," the lawyer explains. "But if it happens a second time, there are serious consequences."

But later, asked to explain these consequences in more detail, nothing comes to her mind that sounds particularly serious. A couple days of community service, perhaps. The commission can also impose fines, but the lawyer says it doesn't like to do so for teenagers. The fines are likewise not intended for people the commission determines to be addicts -- they're already paying to maintain their habit. "Our most important duty is to invite people to participate in rehab," she explains. Lisbon police send around 1,500 people to the commission each year, which averages out to less than five a day. Seventy percent of these cases concern marijuana. Those who fail to turn up receive a couple of reminders, but coercion is not an intended part of this system.

Warnings, reminders and invitations to rehab -- it seems Portugal's war on drugs is a gentle one. "Humanistic and pragmatic" is how João Goulão describes the new program. It is based on decriminalization, which should not be confused with legalization. Portugal considered that path too, but ultimately decided not to take things quite that far.

When Portugal's parliament was debating the proposed Law 30/2000, representatives of right-wing parties declared that planes would start arriving in the country daily, full of people looking for an easy opportunity to pump themselves full of drugs. Our entire country will become a drug-ridden slum, these parties said. The left-wing parties in parliament held a majority, though.

Goulão sits in his office and pages through charts, tables and graphs that are just some of the great quantity of data his team has collected over the years.

The data show, among other things, that the number of adults in Portugal who have at some point taken illegal drugs is rising. At the same time, though, the number of teenagers who have at some point taken illegal drugs is falling. The number of drug addicts who have undergone rehab has also increased dramatically, while the number of drug addicts who have become infected with HIV has fallen significantly. What, though, do these numbers mean? With what exactly can they be compared? There isn't a great deal of data from before the experiment began. And, for example, the number of adults who have tried illegal drugs at some point in their lives is increasing in most other countries throughout Europe as well.

http://www.spiegel.de/international...on-in-portugal-12-years-later-a-891060-2.html

 

[Manmademan]

Not "SOME." 23 states, almost half the nation and counting. It's gonna happen on a state-by state level (even county-by-county) whether we like it or not. It's just the political reality.

pretty sure "23" still qualifies as "some."

and you're ignoring that demographic realities of some states mean its EXTREMELY unlikely to happen. Pennsylvania and Utah in particular still have laughably restrictive sales on alcohol. Buying a bottle of liquor in Pittsburgh on sunday was ILLEGAL until about a decade ago.

Think either one of those is anywhere close to recreational use of marijuana? think again.
And medical use doesn't stop law enforcement from needlessly busting people who get caught using it recreationally either. New Jersey has a medical marijuana law, but still arrested 20K people for possession, with severe racial disparities in enforcement.

you're living in fantasy land. Having the federal government authorize the research by moving it off schedule 1 is in no way a bad thing and will only make recreational legalization easier.

 

[Spiritwalker]

How about just straight up legalizing it?

Hillary is just pandering for more "donations" from her corporate benefactors.

This fuck isn't going to do shit.

Hopefully this piece of shit either dies before the elections, drops out of the race or continues and takes the L she rightfully deserves.

wow lol

 

[teruterubozu]

pretty sure "23" still qualifies as "some."

and you're ignoring that demographic realities of some states mean its EXTREMELY unlikely to happen. Pennsylvania and Utah in particular still have laughably restrictive sales on alcohol. Buying a bottle of liquor in Pittsburgh on sunday was ILLEGAL until about a decade ago.

Think either one of those is anywhere close to recreational use of marijuana? think again.
And medical use doesn't stop law enforcement from needlessly busting people who get caught using it recreationally either. New Jersey has a medical marijuana law, but still arrested 20K people for possession, with severe racial disparities in enforcement.

you're living in fantasy land. Having the federal government authorize the research by moving it off schedule 1 is in no way a bad thing and will only make recreational legalization easier.

Thanks. I'm just reiterating the current political reality of marijuana legalization. Legalization on the federal level is currently a political fantasy.

 

[lednerg]

The current drug classification system is grossly heavy-handed. It should be replaced with something based upon actual medical research rather than tough-on-crime political rhetoric.

 

[Manmademan]

The current drug classification system is grossly heavy-handed. It should be replaced with something based upon actual medical research rather than tough-on-crime political rhetoric.

It is based on medical research...with the exception of everything that's labeled schedule 1, for which research is banned. This is why marijuana needs to be moved off of schedule 1.

honestly the "schedule 1" tier needs to be eliminated entirely. just about everything that's there is there for extremely suspect reasons.

 

[Stet]

This thread is wacky as an outsider looking in. You'd think the primaries are the general election or something. They're running for leadership of their party, of course they're going to adopt strategies that their running mates have. At the end of the day they're all on the same side and will have to work together.

Hillary changing her stance is indicative of someone with the party's best interests at heart.

 

[tokkun]

Not "SOME." 23 states, almost half the nation and counting. It's gonna happen on a state-by state level (even county-by-county) whether we like it or not. It's just the political reality.

Today marijuana is legal for medicinal use in exactly zero states because of the Supremacy Clause. All of the states that have passed legalization are vulnerable to the possibility that a new President comes into office and decides to start enforcing federal drug law or that a federal court issues an order to the state to start enforcing the law themselves.

It is very unlikely that the states would win if a case made it to the Supreme Court, because the only way for state law to overcome the Supremacy Clause would be to rule that the federal government never had the authority under the Constitution to regulate drug law, which I doubt they will be willing to do, regardless of how many anti-federalists are on the Court.

Federal rescheduling would make all existing state medical marijuana laws actually legal (although if it ends up on Schedule II they would need to change rules for dispensation), so yes, it is significant.

 

[Quixzlizx]

This thread is wacky as an outsider looking in. You'd think the primaries are the general election or something. They're running for leadership of their party, of course they're going to adopt strategies that their running mates have. At the end of the day they're all on the same side and will have to work together.

Hillary changing her stance is indicative of someone with the party's best interests at heart.

I think the extreme Bernie supporters don't see themselves as "people on the same side who will have to work together." They have the same burn the system down mindset like Ron Paul supporters had.

 

[Manmademan]

I think the extreme Bernie supporters don't see themselves as "people on the same side who will have to work together." They have the same burn the system down mindset like Ron Paul supporters had.

no argument there. it's exhausting when the more zealous supporters pop up in political threads with "Us vs. Them" BS when talking about Clinton and Sanders of all people.

 

[teruterubozu]

The current drug classification system is grossly heavy-handed. It should be replaced with something based upon actual medical research rather than tough-on-crime political rhetoric.

Yup. And yet people are trying to separate the two. The reality is the Drug Schedule is unscientific and yet we're arguing to reclassify the drug within the same bullshit system.

 

[exmachina64]

I get the vitriol Hillary gets from the right.

But the straight-up hateful bullshit like this that she gets from the left perplexes me.

Why? There are a lot of non-party affiliated liberals that post on GAF. They hate Hillary, they hate how politics work in our country, and they hate compromise.

 

[teiresias]

How about just straight up legalizing it?

Hillary is just pandering for more "donations" from her corporate benefactors.

This fuck isn't going to do shit.

Hopefully this piece of shit either dies before the elections, drops out of the race or continues and takes the L she rightfully deserves.

I can't tell if this is a Sanders supporter reaction or a marijuana legalization supporter reaction. Either way you make your cause look foolish.

 

[tokkun]

It is based on medical research...with the exception of everything that's labeled schedule 1, for which research is banned. This is why marijuana needs to be moved off of schedule 1.

Even the non-Schedule I classifications are not really consistent with research. For instance, there is wide consensus that abuse of benzodiazepenes leads to severe physical dependence and (when combined with alcohol) they are one of the most dangerous drugs in terms of fatal overdoses. That would suggest Schedule II, yet they are on Schedule IV.

And it seems pretty unlikely to change any time soon, due to the large number of middle-class people on Xanax.

 

[Konka]

Why? There are a lot of non-party affiliated liberals that post on GAF. They hate Hillary, they hate how politics work in our country, and they hate compromise.

That description works for the crazy tea party folks just as well. Probably not the best company to be with.

 

[JustenP88]

Her hand-waving of the issue is pretty fucking offensive. Her bullshit "this shouldn't be that important to you kids" rhetoric is a stone's throw away from the kind of shit we'd hear from Republicans.

But she's got that "11th-most liberal senator" trophy to cling to...

 

[And_Gignac]

kiii

Just as some Bernie supporters show a distaste for "compromise" with other worldviews but their own, Clinton also shows a lack of compromise with the core of the political ideology she is supposed to represent.

And lol, if you dare to criticize Clinton´s brand of uncommitted pragmatism you immediatly become a lefty tea partier?

 

[teiresias]

kiii

Just as some Bernie supporters show a distaste for "compromise" with other worldviews but their own, Clinton also shows a lack of compromise with the core of the political ideology she is supposed to represent.

And lol, if you dare to criticize Clinton´s brand of uncommitted pragmatism you immediatly become a lefty tea partier?

You become that when you wish death upon her as has been done on this very thread.

 

[Konka]

kiii

Just as some Bernie supporters show a distaste for "compromise" with other worldviews but their own, Clinton also shows a lack of compromise with the core of the political ideology she is supposed to represent.

And lol, if you dare to criticize Clinton´s brand of uncommitted pragmatism you immediatly become a lefty tea partier?

Find me a single post from a Clinton supporter wishing death on Bernie and then tell me they're the same.

 

[teruterubozu]

Find me a single post from a Clinton supporter wishing death on Bernie and then tell me they're the same.

They just don't want Bernie to be VP cuz he might...die.