Whether the games are on console, PC, or mobile is irrelevant, if nothing else, you're enforcing the idea of having half the judges be women for at least a more diverse group of opinions to better represent all gamers.
The Game Awards jury lists only 2 women out of 32 jurors (sites selected jurors)
- Thread starter Lime
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Whether the games are on console, PC, or mobile is irrelevant, if nothing else, you're enforcing the idea of having half the judges be women for at least a more diverse group of opinions to better represent all gamers.
Aaronrules380
Member
The only real qualification would be the number and variety of titles from the year in question played. And pretty much anyone from any of the participating outlets should be capable of meeting that criteria. And any gaps could be solved by giving people time to catch up on the one or two games they're voting on but haven't triedPeople qualified... Really? What is required to be "qualified" to vote in this Award? As far I know they just need to play games and write something... so hard to be qualified
They are not devs... If you want award from real qualified people... check Game Developers Choice Awards
Honestly, I think the ideal would also be to have more specialized judges for genre awards rather than one panel doing the whole thing
CaviarMeths
Member
What qualifications are there really to pick a big notable game from a small list of big notable games? I mean, Shadows of Mordor won action GOTY last year over Bayonetta 2, so clearly, even playing all of the games nominated wasn't a qualification.
Whether it's Geoff's problem or the industry at large, there's no excusing the lack of diversity among the people responsible for representing our hobby.
Whether it's Geoff's problem or the industry at large, there's no excusing the lack of diversity among the people responsible for representing our hobby.
I don't want to sound like I am dismissing any of these sites, but we have quite a few there which their focus isn't on games, like Wired, Yahoo, USA Today, Associated Press (which is more press-centric, in fact), The Guardian and L.A. Times. Do you go on any of these to check reviews? Does anybody here? I love Wired and I think their gaming section is also good. But Yahoo? If you have them, then why not The Mary Sue and Offworld? The first gets reviews copies, exclusive interviews, access to events and gets as many visitors as, say, Gamesradar, and it's not that far behind in terms of statistics from PC Gamer. The second has Leigh Alexander, who was running the biggest developer-centric site, Gamasutra, until she went to Offworld and is focusing more on discovering cool and not-so-popular games.
As for other countries, you can see in the list Spain, Brazil, Mexico, Canada, Japan, France, Germany, Italy and the UK. Could be more diverse? Yes. And more people from different races or LGBTQIA+? Absolutely. That is also something important.
Stone Ocean
Member
Can anyone get me up to speed on the Breitbart thing? I'm completely out of the loop.
Because people who are involved in the industry and participate in the hobby are tired of seeing people like themselves erased for absolutely no reason. It's also a problem when people like you constantly assume that the most qualified person for whatever role is a white man.
How about we start making it not 97-3?
Also missing from best soundtrack somehow, even though it's nominated for two categories so the people voting for who to nominate have hopefully heard the music from it.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
The use of "50/50" appears to be the post stupidity barometer in this thread.
More than 1 or 2 does not equal 50/50.
What is Geoff supposed to do? Contact each outlet and say "hey, we got 10 males on board already we need some more women. Giantbomb, since you guys have no women on staff, you'll be replacement for anyone who drops out."
This is a reflection of women in games journalism. The Game Awards are allowing outlets to pick their representative and in most cases they pick the editor in chief or the most senior writer, which as seen by this jury is almost entirely males. Picking someone who is that important to your site/publication makes sense, it's just unfortunate that more places don't have women in those roles yet.
Sephiroth_VII
Member
My point is that demanding completely equal representation in every field, every committee and every panel is asking for the impossible. Which is why we should just try to make sure the most qualified people get picked. And yes, in the games industry, they are mostly white males. That's not the case for every field though.
Hard to say. I think it's pretty obvious that this isn't the one though.
They are major mainstream news sites. It makes sense to have them on the panel.
Refer to the topmost part of my post.
Aaronrules380
Member
Gamergate mysogynistic asshole I believe
Monocle
Member
Why not ask a panel of qualified jurors instead?
Gotdatmoney
Member
Its amazing that in all of society in basically all careers the most qualified people are always white males. Honestly they should just put "white male required" on the application and save everyone else the trouble since we already know what the result will be.
In case you think I am being sarcastic I am not. Read some studies. That's how it actually goes.
SolidSnakex
Member
Has the particular guy that was chosen for the panel shown any signs of that? I don't see why he should be disqualified just because of his employer. People can be employed by places while holding dramatically different views than they do.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Why is this issue an issue with you?
I'm not going to watch the video, not now anyway, but are you suggesting that there aren't even just, say ten qualified women in all games press?
But people do complain about gender imbalances in other industries, and rightfully so. It wouldn't matter so much if all of these industries weren't so unfriendly to them to begin with (such as women who work in construction).
People approach games and media from different perspectives and backgrounds. Emphasizing that leads to more informed panels that better represent a large and diverse group of people, and can act as a moderating influence.
Being 'the most qualified' to write about games
is generally just a laughable concept, on top of that, so it's hardly as though anything regarding the integrity of the institution is being affected. No one on that panel is going to have the most qualifications for every single thing they vote on. It's such a nebulous thing to measure.
The awards obviously seems to agree with a general idea of advancing social progress, which is why a category like 'games for change' presumably exists. Though when the majority of the people deciding this are the people least served by change in games, it rings sort of hollow?
if one company sent 32 representatives, and only selected two females, that could be considered an issue.
But if 32 different organisations were each asked to nominate one person, then IMO it is much less of an issue because they are likely to choose the editor in chief or senior reviewer, and currently that is likely to be a male. The fact that each company was asked independently and they did not confer on it makes a weird split like this more likely to happen.
The stance of Killscreen and the Guardian is unworkable in such a situation because which companies are forced to nominate women? If they aren't talking to each other to help keep votes independent etc, then what if they all nominated women? The only way such a thing would be doable would be if the organisers asked each company to nominate one male and one female, with the proviso that the organisers would choose which of the two to be put forward, based on the overall gender split. Which is nonsensical.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
and the oscars get flak for that for awhile now.
What's wrong with forcing a gender split? Sure there might be more seasoned people up for the job but the awards are a joke anyway, we could at least have a diverse joke of an award. And the "subpar" people force picked might just gain some confidence, validation and/or experience from it.
I can't speak for the guy in question, but yeah, Breitbart is basically a hate site at this point.
The front page on that new tech site they made...that's something else.
Devilgunman
Member
See. I found this kind of thinking as racist and sexist as what people are outcrying about. You don't need a different pigment on skin to have different opinions. A white male growing up in NYC and those growing up in south Texas share nothing resemblance in their life. Every single human has their own individuality and personality. Why people think same race shares a hive mind is really beyond me.
That is something that should be investigated instead of outcry for an unfair treatment.
I didn't assume anything. It's what Geoff decided. If you have a problem with that, why don't you ask him how he choose the judges?
It may be, because there's a history of women being dissuaded from fields like physics for no reason other than their gender.
I'm all for equality, but forcing a 50/50 split for the sake of it rubs me the wrong way.
I'm sure that there were qualified females that could have taken spots on the jury. There might not have been 16+ that were willing to though. Remember folks, most females with a voice in this industry get death threats and other internet abuse.
I'm sure that there were qualified females that could have taken spots on the jury. There might not have been 16+ that were willing to though. Remember folks, most females with a voice in this industry get death threats and other internet abuse.
ExpressGalaxy
Member
Richard Lewis basically bleeds esports and, in particular, CS:GO. Despite writing for a shitty site he's definitely a figure in esports and knows his shit.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Its really not that hard. The only reason we dont have good (not equal but good) representation in many facets of life is because we let shit get male dominated and then never took active steps to even the playing field. That is the literal only reason and it does not have to be like that if people cared enough to say "no lets change this".
benicillin
Banned
I think people need to stop focusing on Killscreen's statements, which are their own, and more on the overall idea that TGA should strive for a more diverse juror panel. But it's a lot easier for people to disregard this when they can say "lol 50/50 is impossible now let me tell you about qualifications."
Really, what about we also adding someone from my country, or my race, I do not feel represented then.
Well, why would the idea that women taking an active 50% of the population better represent gamers if female gamers comprise of <30% of gamers targeted at this event?
It becomes weird when what is proposed as the "not problematic" solution would only be resolved when you compromise the jury of an active 50 split. It should then similarly be not problematic if instead a sizable female selection of the jury were the case.
The Financial Review 38 (2003) 33--53 said:
Nothing is wrong with it. In the corporate world at least, there are real world examples where pushing for a more diverse makeup of decision making bodies yields superior results. The same would be true of a government's cabinet- like Canada or for something as small as this- a group of game critics.
This event targets all gamers, the GOTY nomination isn't GOTY- Console/PC.
Considering that the awards really are more of a platform for showing off new games than actually judging what you should be paying attention to, there's something to this.
It would be sad if they leaned into it as a joke though, doing so has almost submarined them multiple times, what with the teabagging and Rooster Teeth and the Talk Soup guy...It should be a serious thing if it's going to hold potency.
But then, if it is a serious thing, gender/cultural bias is something that it's going to have to deal with.
He should get off that site.
Pronto.
I know that's not a fair thing to say but god damn...that looks fucking bad.
devonraynor
Member
All men, all women, mix of both - what's the problem?
It's about being a good critic, who knows how to analyse game in all of their aspects.
Why do things like gender, race etc become a topic.
We are all people, with certain qualities
(my opinion on this matter - and i respect others)
It's about being a good critic, who knows how to analyse game in all of their aspects.
Why do things like gender, race etc become a topic.
We are all people, with certain qualities
(my opinion on this matter - and i respect others)
If that is the case then the root of the problem should be addressed if only white males are the most qualified. Education is very lacking in most of the US and I agree not everyone gets a fair shot at education and they should for K-12. Not everything is going to be equal however, certain people are more inclined to specific lines of work and skills either by natural talent or interest and study.
I just feel like people are making issues out of everything lately, debating is fine but a lot of things on the internet lately have been getting blown out of proportion. I'm not saying don't speak up if you think things aren't fair but I feel like some online have a flair for the dramatic more then an actual issue.
Aaronrules380
Member
That's a very good question. The two issues aren't mutually exclusive
Bolivar687
Banned
50/50 is obviously arbitrary but only 1/32 female is a serious problem.
I assume this also leads to the awkward situation where the judges are now voting for games they didn't nominate.
I assume this also leads to the awkward situation where the judges are now voting for games they didn't nominate.
Garrett Hawke
Member
Then he should probably move outlets tbh.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
As long as it's not you, that would be great.
Why not, you have no idea if I am qualified or not.
You should watch the video. If someone is better qualified for the work or has better merits they should get the job. Not because of their gender. So many things in gaming these days are starting to have gender qoutas and its just stupid. Now if a woman was glossed over because she is a woman thats another story.
No one is stopping you from making a case for why whatever country you're from shouldn't be excluded. Go right on ahead.
Exactly, it's extremely stupid.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
That's still no indication of a qualification, in my book. We could say they have to have played a minimum number of games, sure, but that'd be a bar most female employees would pass as well.
What I'm getting at is that this isn't college admission where you have SAT scores and such. There's no such thing as an objective way to assign qualifications to game reviewers based on merit. And because of that, you might as well aim for more diversity because the only real qualifications for game critics are having played the games and being able to use proper spelling and grammar.
Something - I'm sure he can figure it out.
Or nothing - robbing the awards of one hell of a lot of its legitimacy.
And I would say securing some form of representation is more important as far as the awards are concerned than allowing the publications to pick their own representatives. That should be Geoffs main priority.
Or instead of shitposting you could look at the games.
Apparently Life is Strange, Splatoon, Undertale, and Ori and the Blind Forest are all dudebro games.
It's your typical games of the year awards, popular games will always be apart of the nominees.
Why is this a thing ? Did Geoff contacted the publications and they choose their reviewers for it, or did Geoff called in each person individually ?
Either way, diversity in sex or race or color does not mean their thoughts will also be diverse, which should be the point regarding game awards.
Either way, diversity in sex or race or color does not mean their thoughts will also be diverse, which should be the point regarding game awards.