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Digital Foundry: Hands-on with PS4's PlayStation 2 emulation

ShogunX said:
Ok......and what exactly does that have to do with me posting -

Did you quote the wrong person or something or randomly just feel like bringing up a point for no particular reason?
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I think you're confused.

My post was pointing out that both Sony and Microsoft have gone the route of selling emulated versions of games before as well as grandfathering software over via the likes of cross buy, PS1 classics on PSP, PS3, Vita, etc, and Xbox OG on 360. I'm making conversation, simple as that.

Sony's next move is anyone's guess.
 
I'm still hoping for some sort of disc-based BC, even if only for PS1 games. The vast majority of people would be using the emulation through digital PS1/PS2 classics, so allowing the hardcore minority to use their old discs wouldn't be costing Sony too many sales.
 
Is 30fps to 60fps tweaks trivial when it comes to emulation of 3d titles? I'm more used to PC games getting weird bugs at higher than normal frame-rates. I'm guessing game logic still runs at the original timing?
 
Well this came out of nowhere. This makes me very excited. I just hope we can use our own discs. I wonder if they're gonna announce it next month at the Playstation event? Would be awesome.
 
Mifune said:
I'm still hoping for some sort of disc-based BC, even if only for PS1 games. The vast majority of people would be using the emulation through digital PS1/PS2 classics, so allowing the hardcore minority to use their old discs wouldn't be costing Sony too many sales.
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But it may cost them to develop it in that way and for no financial benefit. Would be good PR though.
 
WWWWWTTTTTTFFFFFFFF

Edit: Overreacted... :/

On another note...

PLEASE LET ME PLAY MY XENOSAGA AND SILENT HILL GAME DISKS
PLEASE LET ME PLAY MY XENOSAGA AND SILENT HILL GAME DISKS
PLEASE LET ME PLAY MY XENOSAGA AND SILENT HILL GAME DISKS
PLEASE LET ME PLAY MY XENOSAGA AND SILENT HILL GAME DISKS
PLEASE LET ME PLAY MY XENOSAGA AND SILENT HILL GAME DISKS
 
I guess Sony would go for digital only emulation, through a PS Classics for PS3 scheme....

It would be nice if they add disc based emulation for PS2 and PS1 (PS3 style). As has been told here, people will still buying digital classic PS1 and PS2 titles, because it´s not common that most of the PS4 userbase still keep a huge colection of PS2 and PS1 games (specially disc from other regions, which were unreleased in certain territories)...But giving the chance to users to play their disc, if they still keep them, it´s nice and adds lots of value.

If i were Sony, i´d offer both of them. Disc based for free with compatibility with all the PS and PS2 software, basic HD upscaling and that´s it.

And digital, with more added value, because you´re paying for the game. HD upscaling with more graphical improvements, framerate fixing, trophy support and, for certain games, like Socom, online support.
 
DorkyMohr said:
Is 30fps to 60fps tweaks trivial when it comes to emulation of 3d titles? I'm more used to PC games getting weird bugs at higher than normal frame-rates. I'm guessing game logic still runs at the original timing?
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It's usually not simple, though apparently it can be done pretty well using Dolphin.

In this case, however, that's not what's happening. The three games in question all run with unlocked frame-rates on a real PS2.
 
Original PlayStation 2 titles ran at a range of pixel counts, but 512x448 and 640x448 were commonplace (God of War 2 even let you choose between the two). It's still early days in our analysis, but first impressions suggest that the emulator resolves a native resolution of 1292x896. Two black lines are added top and bottom to the image, before receiving a final upscale up to full 1080p. In effect, we're looking at around 4x the pixel count - possibly higher, depending on the title. Texture filtering also looks improved, but on close inspection we think that the increased quality is probably down to the extra resolution alone.
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Besides the performance increases, this is my favorite thing.

Although i wonder why they didn't just stay at 720p and upscale it to 1080p
 
KalBalboa said:
I think you're confused.

My post was pointing out that both Sony and Microsoft have gone the route of selling emulated versions of games before as well as grandfathering software over via the likes of cross buy, PS1 classics on PSP, PS3, Vita, etc, and Xbox OG on 360. I'm making conversation, simple as that.

Sony's next move is anyone's guess.
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But you didn't need to point anything out. I posted that MS aren't charging people to play their old 360 games again on Xbox One and hope Sony follow suit with their PS2 emulation. Simple.
 
It'll be interesting to see what they do with PS1 games. A simple 4x resolution increase like you seem to get here, a steady 60fps frame rate and hopefully it'll hopefully also deal with the texture warping.

With what they've done with the PS2 games, something like this should be pretty manageble - Crash Bandicoot 3: Warped (PSX)
 
ShogunX said:
But you didn't need to point anything out. I posted that MS aren't charging people to play their old 360 games again on Xbox One and hope Sony follow suit with their PS2 emulation. Simple.
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I'm not sure why this is upsetting you so much. My apologies.
 
GAMEPROFF said:
I only need the Silent Hill series for this.
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Yep. But there's little chance of Konami rereleasing those as PS2 Classics, because of all the voice acting royalty shit that went down back when the HD Collection was released.

So our only hope is disc-based emulation...
 
dark10x said:
...because it's an even scale of the PS2 resolution. 720p is not.
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So going to 16:9 would i guess kinda fuck everything up in game wise in regards to the original 4:3 scaling? Sorry, not really technically proficient at this stuff.

is that the main reason most likely?
 
dark10x said:
It's usually not simple, though apparently it can be done pretty well using Dolphin.

In this case, however, that's not what's happening. The three games in question all run with unlocked frame-rates on a real PS2.
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Ah I somehow glossed over the framerate tests that showed PS2 sitting at 60 during less demanding scenes. Thanks.
 
I don't know these ps2 games b t I would have thought that most ps2 games are 4:3 aspect ratio. Why add black bars to the top and bottom.


Also for those hoping for disc based emulation, I'm pretty sure the signature check (or whatever it's called) for ps1/ps2 games is hardware related. If they supported disc based games, anyone could just burn an iso.
 
KalBalboa said:
The 360 situation on Xbox One I cited is not for downloadable games.
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KalBalboa said:
The fact of the matter is that you put a physical retail disc into an Xbox One and get to play the game.

My original point stands (please read my post): publishers need to weigh in on the digital version of the game you are granted access to by the Xbox 360 > Xbox One "conversion."
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Not to make an argument but you're skipping out steps that kills your entire point.

When you put the disc in you download a digital version of that game to play, that digital version has licensing issues since it if effectively providing a new version of that game to play, and a new version requires all the relevant rights. The disc versions rights do not transfer over automatically, the rules and laws do not work like that.

With pure emulation from disc no such issue exists as the only version of the game is the disc, and the rights would have been valid when that was originally provided to retail.
 
Laranja said:
Yep. But there's little chance of Konami rereleasing those as PS2 Classics, because of all the voice acting royalty shit that went down back when the HD Collection was released.

So our only hope is disc-based emulation...
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Yeah, that was a real disaster. I've purchased a PS2 since that collection hit, heh.

Any idea if the Star Wars PS2 titles will hit the PSN for public purchase anytime soon? Twisted Metal Black was an exclusive classic for Twisted Metal 2012 purchasers for about a year, I think.
 
PS2 EMULATION.

WHAT

uuOf5Z1.gif
 
Stallion Dan said:
Not to make an argument but you're skipping out steps that kills your entire point.

When you put the disc in you download a digital version of that game to play, that digital version has licensing issues since it if effectively providing a new version of that game to play, and a new version requires all the relevant rights. The disc versions rights do not transfer over automatically, the rules and laws do not work like that.

With pure emulation from disc no such issue exists as the only version of the game is the disc, and the rights would have been valid when that was originally provided to retail.
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I'm not sure you and I are disagreeing on anything here.
 
bomblord1 said:
I'm confused as to how a company releasing a straight port of an old game couldn't make the left and right side of the trackpad act as start and select.

Or that a straight port wouldn't fit the criteria of their evidence.
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The game has the ps2 logo at start up, and asks about which ps2 memory card to use.
 
I guess technically widescreen support doesn't really matter since i have a widescreen option on my TV.

But just the 4x resolution boost alone is enough to deal with the PS2 shit image quality in this day and age, and singlehandedly destroy PS1's texture warping issues all at once.

Playing games like Legend of Dragoon or Final Fantasy 9 without those crappy jaggies is gonna feel like a revolution
 
GAMEPROFF said:
True. I hope so much that this is happening. I have now waited two years since I finished Silent Hills on my Vita... I really want to play the other games (2-4)
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Same here.

I'd gladly pay again for those games, given the chance, but Konami doesn't seem to want my money.
 
Inuhanyou said:
Besides the performance increases, this is my favorite thing.

Although i wonder why they didn't just stay at 720p and upscale it to 1080p
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Most likely because rendering at arbitrary resolutions causes many accuracy issues for ps2 emulation. This is why the pcsx2 dev team is removing the custom resolution option.
 
LewieP said:
Sony announced these. Weeks ago.
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Quite some time ago but I do think that emulation hadn't been mentioned preciously, what was announced was...
PlayStation Blog said:
The bundle also includes Star Wars Battlefront Deluxe Edition, as well as a digital voucher to download four classic Star Wars titles – Super Star Wars, Star Wars: Racer Revenge, Star Wars: Jedi Starfighter and Star Wars Bounty Hunter – playable for the first time on PS4, and sporting enhanced graphics and Trophy support. I’ll give you a minute to take that all in.
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I think finding out that the PS4 is actually emulating PS2 games and improving them quite a bit is a pretty big thing.

EDIT:
I wonder if we'll finally get a fully functioning (1080/60) version of Shadow of The Colossus running on a PlayStation at some point?
 
Will0827 said:
For the technically savy, would and how would online be made possible ?
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Is it possible? Yes. Will they do it? I highly doubt they'd take the time to do it.

Edit: But all things considering this is nice. Especially with the garbage image quality the original PS2 had. I hope they'll finally bring Project Zero here on the store. I don't want to create a American account for just three games...
 
dogen said:
Most likely because rendering at arbitrary resolutions causes many accuracy issues for ps2 emulation. This is why the pcsx2 dev team is removing the custom resolution option.
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I see....so it makes sense for them to increase the internal res linearly with 4:3, in line with the original game. Gotcha.

The TV usually has functions to force 16:9 widescreen if people really want that i suppose, or i guess Sony could just add in a "stretch to full screen" option without touching the actual internal res
 
I'm of two minds on the trophy support. Surely a fantastic addition but I worry it delays compatibility with the existing PS2 Classic library. Is there a person at Sony right now playing Ruff Trigger The Vanocore Conspiracy to define trophies? How does that work.
 
Don't much care for BC, but admittedly, it would be nice to finally finish my steelbook copy of FFXII.

Also, if they do end up adding disc support, I hope it's not like the XB1's version of it. I would prefer to play a game right off the disc like the PS2 and og PS3s did, instead of having to download something.
 
Memorabilia said:
I thought his original post was in reference to the PS2. Same argument applies though... The PS3 is nowhere near as powerful as the PS4. It was at best roughly 5-10% faster than 360 on paper, which was only realized in exclusives at the end of the PS3s life cycle. For all intents and purposes the two last gen consoles were dead even. Its true the Xbone and PS4 catch deserved heat for lacking on the CPU side compared to, say, the i5 and i7...but its crazy talk to think either last gen console can hold a candle to the PS4 or Xbone.
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CELL emulation WILL NOT happen any time soon. I remember reading benchmarks stating that it was almost as good or even better at certain tasks than the AMD CPU in PS4. It was a monster in 2005 and absolutely dwarfs the relatively simple tri core chip in the 360.

I suppose they might find a way to emulate it through the graphics chip on PS4... nah.
 
broncobuster said:
I'm of two minds on the trophy support. Surely a fantastic addition but I worry it delays compatibility with the existing PS2 Classic library. Is there a person at Sony right now playing Ruff Trigger The Vanocore Conspiracy to define trophies? How does that work.
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This is what makes me believe it'll be a limited library they add to over time, launching with a handful of real classics.
 
Inuhanyou said:
I see....so it makes sense for them to increase the internal res linearly with 4:3, in line with the original game. Gotcha.

The TV usually has functions to force 16:9 widescreen if people really want that i suppose, or i guess Sony could just add in a "stretch to full screen" option without touching the actual internal res
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Well, I don't think they need to change the resolution to add widescreen. Not sure though. If a game didn't originally support widescreen though then extra work will be needed to be done for that game specifically to hack it in.
 
I haven't read every post in this thread, but has anyone mentioned the possibilities with SharePlay?

Imagine a world in which every splitscreen PS1/PS2 game can now be played... online.

Twisted Metal 2, SSX Tricky, Crash Team Racing... and with trophies.
 
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