Otaku USA: As Geek Culture Assimilates, Otaku Remain Outcasts
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Psycho_Mantis
Banned
xD
You don't understand how hyped I was for KLK. I wasn't just disappointed with the unnecessary "fan service", the aspect that disappointed me the most was the mediocre action.
If you look at the animes that have managed to penetrate the mainstream, DBZ, Naruto, Pokemon, Digimon, all of these shows are really old. Note how the shows tend to be shounen or have an appeal to younger kids. Note how several shows aired on TV and were hits after being received well on TV. You just don't see that from anime these days (and tbh I don't see anime that have the same appeal as these shows did these days) bar very few exceptions. Evangelion is an outlier, but I think its a combination of its quality and how it was a breath of fresh air. Attack on Titan seems to have gotten very popular despite no TV broadcast. Lets see if it has the staying power of the other franchises.
MHWilliams
Member
KLK is better than Gurren.
MHWilliams
Member
On consistent basis, but the highs of Gurren were much higher for me. Overall I enjoy it more.
I can agree with this
Astral Dog
Member
But this is good or bad
I wouldn't avoid seeing it. I don't think those costumes (and a lot of other things about the show) would translate very well to live action. Kind of how superhero costumes look extremely dumb IRL.
I agree the highs of Gurren were higher, but overall I liked KLK better.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
I would rather have neither and instead have more Miss Hokusais and Showa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuus.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
TTGL had better music as well
TwEE-N-Toast
Banned
I see this sentiment here on Gaf a lot and I don't understand it. Attack on Titan is one of the few shows I don't feel embarrassed to recommend to people.
Sword Art Online is pretty guilty of having all that fan service stuff people here are complaining about. Was a fun harmless cartoon in season 1 then got really creepy by season 2.
Sword Art Online is pretty guilty of having all that fan service stuff people here are complaining about. Was a fun harmless cartoon in season 1 then got really creepy by season 2.
NaDannMaGoGo
Member
Yeh Attack on Titan is shock full of edginess and unnecessary screaming but as far as I'm concerned, other than that it's pretty good. I think it has strong world building, some great action sequences (those who got some budget to them anyways) and solid characters and story so far. None of this may hold up later down the line but so far it's good. Perhaps this is just my guilty pleasure show.
It however doesn't have any sexual fanservice what so ever if I'm not mistaken, which is where SAO falls flat on its nose. God forbid you actually manage to enjoy the story etc. in SAO but you still gotta agree that it's impossible to recommend to say the average adult. Especially the second half of S1. Just no.
User 73706
Banned
Sword Art Online is the epitome of "you just don't understand the nuances and deep emotional beats a format like anime can provide."
No you see you're warping the situation and for some reason making yourself the victim. In that example situation someone is merely stating why they don't like anime - instead of engaging that, the response is to recommend other things. It seems like "no, you MUST like anime" response, which seems typical of the fandom. It's hard to accept someone doesn't like anime and a form of conversion tries to take place. In doing so and not addressing the dislike it honestly comes off as "yeah well we have that but c'mon try this instead, join us." It comes off as deceptive, especially if you don't really deny you're into the thing they dislike. It looks like a desperation attempt to recruit from a creep in their eyes.
You can't correct someone into liking something, it has to happen naturally and of their own accord. I mean this need to "correct" people who don't like anime for certain aspects and the in-community "joke" to shit all over everyone else's favourite shows just makes you all look like... Well I dunno the term, but it's not a good look. Not in my eyes.
Just to comment on lecherous content and the like, just gonna say that if someone wants to avoid it they're going to have a bad time with anime. A lot of the all-ages stuff (AKA the stuff even anime fans say is "just for kids" and doesn't get added to season charts or only has a single dedicated slow fansub group) devoid of that content just isn't translated because the fandom's not into it - and the stuff that is, is probably already considered iconic and mainstream and the people who like it probably don't consider themselves anime fans.
partyphone
Banned
this is the ad I keep getting in this thread. good work, everyone.
If all they want to do is criticize a single aspect of the medium and throw the rest of it under the bus as punishment for daring to be associated with the shitty parts, and are bothered by attempts to say "hey it's more than that shit"...
Then what's the point in the comment in the first place?
If they think I'm a creep for saying "hey if you want anime that doesn't have the thing you hate, have a look at THIS"...
Then why should I care what they think, anymore?
CharminUltra
Member
Anime was a mistake.
You don't have to think anything of what they think. At all. Like, the community might seem more inviting if you guys didn't scramble into damage control mode every time someone said why they didn't like anime. Looks panicked, desperate. Those people don't GOTTA like anime, but maybe they'll pick it up later of their own accord without being hounded by recommendations.
If they didn't want to engage, why did they make the comment in the first place?
I like to talk to people. Sorry if that makes me appear as if I'm panicked or desperate.
I generally assume that people will respond in kind if I engage them in an intelligent fashion. Apparently you think that's... an unwarranted expectation. Possibly it is, but I think I'll continue being optimistic.
Be sure to let us know how your new life turns out.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
I don't have a problem with people disliking Japanese animation. There are many understandable reasons why one might - preferring Western animation techniques over the limited animation techniques used in Japan, not liking some of the common visual elements used, preferring to see live-action actors, feeling that it's too culturally foreign, etc. etc. There are many things that I like, from Baroque music to Kieslowski to the Yakuza games, that I wish were more generally popular but I understand why they're not. And there's certainly many loud anime fans I have little respect for, and I can understand why people get turned off from the whole medium if their exposure to it is mainly through youth trying to pretend they're Japanese in embarrassing ways.
But then you get posts like this one, which basically call out all anime as awful and all people who watch anime as idiots who just want to see girls getting sexually abused. These kind of generalizations strike me as wrong and in need of adjustment. Even you engage in it when you say "It comes off as deceptive, especially if you don't really deny you're into the thing they dislike. It looks like a desperation attempt to recruit from a creep in their eyes." It's not the case that if you like watching some anime, you like watching all anime. I, and other anime watchers I know, try to avoid anime that is focused on sexual titillation. Whether it's Ninja Scroll or To Love Ru, I find that stuff boring, stupid, and offputting. So when that's pulled out as a way of shaming anyone who watches anime, I think it's natural to feel defensive, because it's a misrepresentation. As if people think I'm watching Kill la Kill when I'm really watching Mainichi Kaasan and Kagewani.
And I genuinely think that, if you are not closed to animation in general, there is something out there that people with just about any tastes in entertainment will enjoy - maybe not the majority of anime or even a lot, but at least one thing. If you like older episodic TV such as MacGyver, you're likely to like Master Keaton. If you liked Anne of Green Gables growing up, you're likely to like Takahata's TV adaptation of it. If you like BBC period dramas, you're likely to like Emma: A Victorian Romance. And so on. Those are the things that I like to point people to. I certainly don't expect everyone to become rabid, obsessive fans of all things anime, but I think there are things out there to like if people knew about them and tried them.
In the example conversation, it was the fan who started the dialogue (think: this thread), not the non-fan. The comment is made as a response - not an opener.
Not speaking about yourself, but other responses in this thread have not exactly been "intelligent". I recognise your avatar as one of the better responders - there have been others who don't care about an intelligent dialogue at all. Although for the record, I think addressing someone's dislikes in a non-dismissive way as a means to try and explain why the medium isn't as bad as they think would be a better route than just recommendations.
I agree it's natural to feel defensive, but I personally feel that the anime community doesn't take up defense properly. If you were saying the things you were saying now (about not liking the seedy stuff and not endorsing it etc etc) the view of the fandom might be in a better light. I think that should come before recommending them shows they need to put hours into - with them probably looking for small details to eject themselves from the situation (as all people forced through things they don't like are probably secretly hoping they can do, even if they don't do it). Walk before they run, you get me? Even if they still don't end up watching anime, using words - and not just attempts to deflect or "this one will change your mind!" - to make the fandom look less shit and convincing people that you're not creepy seems like a better method to me than hoping they'll get hooked by some random recommendation.
People scramble into defense mode not because people hate anime..but rather the why they describe why they hate anime.
"I don't like this show because it is problematic"
On its own is fine...there is some shit out there man.
"I don't like anime because this show is problematic"
This condemns the whole damn medium and that is bullshit. And then when people try to go "well there is more than that", they either get ignored or the person keeps pulling up shows that prove his/her already made up POV. Then there is this passive agressive name calling factor that also gets people on their heels. You can't start a conversation already looking down on the other side.
It's like going "Hey, you like Rap? You must be a gangbangin degenerate, why do you like that shit". So now whoever the fuck you are talking to is already pissed and they don't want anything but to shut your stupid ass up...so now both sides aren't having an actual discussion but just having a contest to see who is the better person...and failing. "Hey you like rap? I don't because of the themes involved, why do you like it" is a much better way of starting that conversation. Sure some would still be mad that you don't like what they like but you are now approaching it as a legimate question rather than hoping the other person goes "yes I am a gangbanging degenerate" so they prove your already made up mind right.
If you have to wonder why people are so defensive...perhaps look at how you started the whole conversation (no you mind you...I think you have been very polite and well spoken but generally in everyone of these threads a toxic word bomb is thrown into the ring and shit goes to hell).
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
hosannainexcelsis
Member
I'm just here with the motivation to educate others on a subject I have closely examined for long time from many different angles, with the hopes that I can in some small way counter ignorance. I'm not really here to defend my own reputation - though if pushed on that, I will at least try to give people an accurate portrayal of myself - and I'm certainly not here to defend all of anime fandom.
MrRudiMentary
Member
I consider myself an anime fan despite watching less than ten series, and I try to avoid other anime fans. It's mostly due to the culture surrounding fanservice. Statues of chicks in bikinis and body pillows.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
These are just excuses from not wanting to honestly answer the question. The answer is both terrifying and sobering. No one is their right mind would watch a Kill la Kill live action just because of the ages involved.
It's not that anime is for pedos, but drawn people seem to get a pass for when lewd or pervy things happen.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
I'm not even sure how you reached that conclusion, nevermind that adaptations don't always follow the rules established by the original work.
I think anime fans would get a lot less defensive if people's condemnation of the medium didn't have to constantly include judgments regarding our moral character. It's exhausting being equated to pedophiles and Gamergate trolls and whatnot just because of the media you consume. Every damn day. If it doesn't tickle your fancy or you find aspects of it problematic (I mean, as with several other of the fans here, I see a ton of problematic tropes I would love to change and there's a wide swath of shows I avoid), but the criticism almost always finds some way to focus in on fans even moreso than the medium.
some things just work better animated than they do in live action. KLK is definitely one of those things. I get that the perversion is not for everyone..its not. But it is a major part of what the series is (for better or for worse) and the live action version would have to cut that and that would more than likely alienate the fanbase and to what purpose? The show's premise is still too out there for most people so that is another thing that would have to be edited. Then there is the action. This is the main thing that would not translate..that is the best aspect of animation because you can do whatever the hell you want. So that is a lot of things that would have to be changed for it to work. Then what is the point.
That is why people wouldn't want to see a live action version..it would be a bad adaptation.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
what, that isn't the reason at all.
It's just something that works better in anime, because in animation you can bend rules and go full crazy.
I wouldn't watch it and don't want most anime adapted as Live Action because it's obviously going to be inferior in most cases, stuff like Monster would clearly work but Gurren Lagann and KLK? Why even try. Personally, it would have to be an amazing adaptation for me to even give it a chance.
I can't fucking BELIEVE you came to that conclusion.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
If you're dealing with very grounded shows shot and staged like live-action, something such as Master Keaton or Shounen Hollywood, they could easily be made into live-action versions while retaining their appeal. (Assuming the live-action production is of good quality, which Japanese live-action whether TV or film is usually not.) If you're dealing with something that takes advantage of the animation medium more, such as Space Dandy or, heaven forbid, Wanwa the Puppy, a live-action adaptation is pretty pointless. I suppose the Wachowski's Speed Racer film is the closest live-action has come to capturing an animated visual style, and it had to use a lot of CG effects to do so.
Not sure why you're so fixated on Kill la Kill. As I said, I don't watch live action adaptions of any anime or manga, because I personally have no interest in it. If I want to watch something that's not animated, I watch American stuff like Fargo, Game of Thrones etc.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Oh geez, I had heard about the second article but not about the first. What a shame.
Saucycarpdog
Member
If the shitty parts have consumed the medium to the point that it's part of its identity, I can understand why many would see the medium in a negative light.
PleaseBeGentle_
Member
Pretty sure your spellchecker misspelled breast
flatearthpandas
Member
Cowboy Bebop is an interesting anime that caters to the western audience and doesn't even follow a typical anime plot and just does random contained episodes similar to western cartoons up until the finale where there is a 2 or 3 parter for an ending.
King Gilga
Member
I don't see why they should.
is this the same kotaku guy that claimed cowboy bebop invented jazz?
Log Horizon and .hack//SIGN do the whole thing so much better. SAO sucks, especially the attempted rape scene near the end of the show.
.hack//SIGN is actually everything about an MMO talking from lore, how some might use it for escape, message boards and community, friendships and combat, knowledge about enemies and people. It's slower paced than those but it does everything and everything well.
Log Horizon does quite a few things well too with community, guilds and economy of the game.
The gifs are kind of shitty, but it was just to show that it's possible to go full whacky on live action too. But yeah, something on the level of GL would be way past any conceivable budget and/or usual live action means. Animation is definitely superior on that front since it's basically without boundaries with what it can achieve.
Anyway, I guess that's all beside the original point that was made concerning a live action version of Kill la Kill (that having real life underage girls in skimpy clothing would be unacceptable).
enanogrande
Member
How the hell is this possible...
Didn't mean to imply otherwise.
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