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[LaserBuddha]

So you watched a couple of animes and that makes you an expert on the whole media? Why don't you just say that from what you've seen that's what happens? Why do you feel the need to generalize the whole genre? There's plenty of strong female characters in anime and you sense of humor is no better then anyone else. I'm getting tired of this superiority complex you guys are showing in this thread.

I have a floor-to-ceiling shelf of anime DVDs. I started reading Animerica during the first few issues. Also got crates of manga. I've seen more than a couple. And I did present this as an appraisal based on what I've seen, which all an "expert" could do too anyway.

I never said I was an expert on the medium. That silly barb makes you look defensive. I think I've seen enough anime and witnessed enough anime fans to recognize recurring issues in the medium. I am certainly qualified to talk about what I'm familiar with.

There are some genuinely good female characters out there. Although she can get very sexualized, Motoko Kusanagi is an example of an excellent female character. Unabashedly tough without fear of being considered "bitchy". Isn't motivated by her romantic relationships. There are others, but saying these examples exist in such a huge medium (which is obvious) don't tell us anything about recurring trends and the perception of the medium.

EDIT: Love all the upset people chiming in to say "you don't know what you're talking about because I say so" as if that statement is more valid than me relating my personal experience with anime. And maybe you should watch an anime about debating if you think "you have no evidence" is a counter-argument. Am I supposed to list 100 problematic anime so you can tell me I'm clearly wrong because there are thousands of shows out there?

 

[firehawk12]

Its always funny to see people quickly jump to either passive agressively or outright calling people pedophiles and wonder why they are so defensive.

"hey you like rap?"

"yes"

"wow you must be a sexist POS then"

"what? no I am not. There is a bunch of rap that isn't about that"

"geeze stop being so defensive. There are songs that are sexist thus the whole medium is"

"that's unfair"

"I'm just criticizing it..geez calm down".

It pisses me off every time a version of the above happens (and it does so don't get at me with that "oh thats a strawman" shit...it has happened in this thread and others..).

The problem with these threads is that those who don't like it come in so damn strong. A debate that starts with one side obviously HATING the genre or those who like it isn't going to go anywhere. Calling someone a pedo or creepy loser, already puts them on edge and defensive. Lumping everyone into one sing ball also does this. Is some of the anime community creepy? Yes. Are some of them the aforementioned types that think Japan > all and want to speak in Japanese and change their names and shit? Yes. But that does not make up all of the community.. not even close. Those are the guys/gals who spend the most money and stuff but thats not the whole community. Its weird to see this mentality on a video game board. Games where attacked in the 90s for being too violent and bad for kids and often things like FF7, Mario and other not Mortal Kombat titles where mentioned as a counterpoint. That was valid...and yet here we are condemning a whole field because there are creepy works. That is hypocracy at its finest. You don't trash film because there is porn....lots and lots of porn.

Are there some works that are creepy? Hell yeah. But if you have a problem w/ those...then focus on those titles. There are lots of titles that aren't "creepy or problematic", I'd say at least 3-5 per season .That seems low but there are also tons of titles that either toe the line or have a few things that simply do no translate across culture and thus outsiders or those trying to get in may find them offputting. That is another thing that gets lost too...these are products being made for completely different cultures..so some thing just do not translate well. Like I fuckin love Gintama..proibably one of my top 5 shows of all time...it is a hard recommendation for sure. There is a lot that will go over the heads of many (especially early) and the humor just may not hit.

But still my main point and wish is that when discussing this people have a little bit more respect for others. These threads often devolve into petty name calling and a lot of it starts because someone enters with the already made up idea that everyone who enjoys this are deviant losers and that is unfair and gets the conversation off on the wrong foot. It is moreso annoying considering this is a video game forum and that level of prebaked animosity was something most of us experienced before. Remember when everyone who played games was a potent criminal? That wasn't fair then either.....

This is really the problem with discussions like this. One group feels attacked and then the natural impulse is to defend anime.

The thing is most people who watch anime know that there's anime that's shit. But that's true with experts (and if you believe in Malcolm Gladwell, once you spend 10 thousand hours doing anything, you become an expert) of any particular field/hobby.

 

[sneakydomo]

I'm sorry but


is absolutely you demanding a litmus test in order to determine whether or not somebody should be listened to in a thread based around why aren't people more accepting towards anime

You are not helping make the anime community look better by doing this, regardless of whether or not somebody has made incendiary claims.

Than we disagree. Call me a crypto pedophile and I'll demand to see your evidence. As for the "anime community" I'm no ambassador and from the tone of most of the negative commentators here they are not looking for an honest fact based discussion, their mind is made up.

 

[jstripes]

Sheer cringe.

Can I ask ITT what 'weaboo' means?

It's the western equivalent of "otaku", or generally those awkward guys and girls obsessed with everything Japan.

"I'm going to move to Japan when I graduate college. I take a kendo course on the weekend. Want to see my skills? *Says random catchphrase in Japanese while eating Pocky.*"

 

[CadetMahoney]

I have been to conventions in Germany for over 10 years and a lot of people in this fandom are just obnoxious (and a lot of them use it more like some escape from reality instead of just an entertainment medium).
I never saw this in the fandom of franco-belgian comic, which seems more mature even though it also has comics for children and adults.

A lot of fans I got to know take their fandom too far and try to tell others how great anime/manga are, talk some sentences in japanese, use japanese phrases when talking to you and such things. I remember at my University before my Chinese classes there were japanese classes and literally 50% of the ones attending it were "open" otakus. If there are 20 people, 3 were wearing a cosplay to a university lecture, 3 were in thei visual kei outfit and the other 3 wore anime tshirts or had anime keychains on their badge. Not to mention they always drew deviantartstyle shit during the classes, one teacher there told me.

damn, that is something.

 

[firehawk12]

Is there an equivalent to Feminist Frequency for anime? Seems like such a group would be useful to promote anime that deals with gender issues well and both help steer people in the direction of better anime and help steer the average show in a more palatable direction.

The reason why I don't know if this is useful is because it's just feminist film theory at that point. Everyone should know what the male gaze is and how it operates in 2015 these days. There's really no excuse for you not to know it unless you aren't interested in the whole idea of the medium being the message.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Is there an equivalent to Feminist Frequency for anime? Seems like such a group would be useful to promote anime that deals with gender issues well and both help steer people in the direction of better anime and help steer the average show in a more palatable direction.

I don't know how you expect this to happen. Do you think an American putting up videos in English on Youtube about sexism in anime is going to even be noticed by Japanese production companies, let alone make them go "Guess we should carefully monitor all our productions to make sure they're as respectful towards women as they can be." It would be more practical, albeit still difficult, to try to compel American and other Western anime distributors to not involve themselves in selling sexist anime, but even if you were able to do that it'd be more likely that Japanese companies would decide they can't sell their productions overseas than make any changes to the type of things they make.

It's valuable to guide people to quality anime, and I certainly try to do so, especially to combat the likelihood that the more interesting productions get overlooked, but expecting people in the West to be able to materially change the Japanese animation industry is a bit much.

 

[Intheflorsh]

How much anime do I need to watch before I can have an opinion about anime?

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

I quickly got sick of the conventions, personally.

The first couple of them in my city, starting in '97, were smallish and full of interesting people, many of them well-rounded. It was still largely an underground subculture at that point. But within a few years, with the anime boom, the cons turned into stifling crush of socially awkward basement dwellers and weaboo girls.

Eh.

Not at the con I been to.

 

[PdotMichael]

I don't know how you expect this to happen. Do you think an American putting up videos in English on Youtube about sexism in anime is going to even be noticed by Japanese production companies, let alone make them go "Guess we should carefully monitor all our productions to make sure they're as respectful towards women as they can be." It would be more practical, albeit still difficult, to try to compel American and other Western anime distributors to not involve themselves in selling sexist anime, but even if you were able to do that it'd be more likely that Japanese companies would decide they can't sell their productions overseas than make any changes to the type of things they make.

It's valuable to guide people to quality anime, and I certainly try to do so, especially to combat the likelihood that the more interesting productions get overlooked, but expecting people in the West to be able to materially change the Japanese animation industry is a bit much.

Looking at the fact that K-On was called out here. I'm not sure that you guys have the same definition of quality.

I fear the end game would be more Attack on Titans.

 

[jstripes]

A lot of fans I got to know take their fandom too far and try to tell others how great anime/manga are, talk some sentences in japanese, use japanese phrases when talking to you and such things. I remember at my University before my Chinese classes there were japanese classes and literally 50% of the ones attending it were "open" otakus. If there are 20 people, 3 were wearing a cosplay to a university lecture, 3 were in thei visual kei outfit and the other 3 wore anime tshirts or had anime keychains on their badge. Not to mention they always drew deviantartstyle shit during the classes, one teacher there told me. She even told me she thinks its sad that those people reduce japan on this one entertainment medium.

 

[LaserBuddha]

How much anime do I need to watch before I can have an opinion about anime?

Enough that your opinion becomes positive.

 

[Modest Mauser]

Than we disagree. Call me a crypto pedophile and I'll demand to see your evidence. As for the "anime community" I'm no ambassador and from the tone of most of the negative commentators here they are not looking for an honest fact based discussion, their mind is made up.

Who called you a pedophile? You're being strangely defensive over nothing? Or maybe I missed some comments?

Look at me, I'm using a damn anime girl avatar but I don't have to defend the entire medium like I'm being personally attacked when people make snide comments about the frankly problematic shit in a lot of anime.

 

[jstripes]

How much anime do I need to watch before I can have an opinion about anime?

Over 9000.

Spoiler

I am trash for saying that.

 

[SomTervo]

That sounds like it would be one of those futile, eternal tasks doled out as punishment by the Greek gods.

Hahaha.

Guts eaten daily by a giant bird?

Nah. Perusing a million-strong pile of manga and anime DVDs taking offence at every slight infraction of political-correctness.

It's the western equivalent of "otaku", or generally those awkward guys and girls obsessed with everything Japan.

"I'm going to move to Japan when I graduate college. I take a kendo course on the weekend. Want to see my skills? *Says random catchphrase in Japanese while eating Pocky.*"

Yeah - I did a bit of reading. I get this. Always thought otaku was a sufficient word, though.

I have a floor-to-ceiling shelf of anime DVDs. I started reading Animerica during the first few issues. Also got crates of manga. I've seen more than a couple. And I did present this as an appraisal based on what I've seen, which all an "expert" could do too anyway.

I never said I was an expert on the medium. That silly barb makes you look defensive. I think I've seen enough anime and witnessed enough anime fans to recognize recurring issues in the medium. I am certainly qualified to talk about what I'm familiar with.

There are some genuinely good female characters out there. Although she can get very sexualized, Motoko Kusanagi is an example of an excellent female character. Unabashedly tough without fear of being considered "bitchy". Isn't motivated by her romantic relationships. There are others, but saying these examples exist in such a huge medium (which is obvious) don't tell us anything about recurring trends and the perception of the medium.

EDIT: Love all the upset people chiming in to say "you don't know what you're talking about because I say so" as if that statement is more valid than me relating my personal experience with anime. And maybe you should watch an anime about debating if you think "you have no evidence" is a counter-argument. Am I supposed to list 100 problematic anime so you can tell me I'm clearly wrong because there are thousands of shows out there?

You are my hero.

 

[Principate]

Yup, the female fanbase is rabid, but is completely overshadowed by the manchildren.

I used to know a few girls who would completely obsess over specific characters, and read and write slash fiction about them in their spare time.

My daughter, who used to casually watch anime, has a real chip on her shoulder about the weaboos at her school. Last year at her school's multicultural fair, a bunch of non-Japanese girls, dressed in cosplay, had a "Japan" table. It was as embarrassing as you'd expect.

Sorta but not really, manga has practically equal readership between male and females, and the female orientated manga industry is massive, as in completely dwarfs any comic book equivalents. The issue is anime still largely pander to a shrinking male fanbase (though shows like free have shown a way forward).

I think the issue is the west largely thinks in terms of anime, but anime is mainly just merchandising etc, the general Otaku culture and the industry itself cares more for manga and LN sales.

 

[Modest Mauser]

Yeah - I did a bit of reading. I get this. Always thought otaku was a sufficient word, though.

Otaku generally means any kind of obsessive nerd and the term is used in Japan also as far as I'm aware. Weeaboo more specifically means an American (or other Western nation) nerd who fetishizes Japanese culture and wishes they were Japanese.

 

[Sesuadra]

Is there an equivalent to Feminist Frequency for anime? Seems like such a group would be useful to promote anime that deals with gender issues well and both help steer people in the direction of better anime and help steer the average show in a more palatable direction.

yes, but not in the open like feminist frequency stuff. but a lot of people @ kyoto university faculty of manga like jaqueline berndt are quite critical and also have contact to publishers etc.
just two weeks ago I was at a symposium and where she had a speech. it was quite interesting because she also shared personal stories and "behind the scenes" stories from her research. also a friend of mine studied in her class.

quite interesting the whole stuff. she also wrote a lot of books most of them are available in english. I'll have a speech in two weeks in english about it..in my 5 years of studying japanese studies and japanese art history this must be one of the most interesting topics I've worked on..

tl;dr: yes but it is usually academic only.

maybe one day I'll create a thread about it..but I fear the backlash and all the "lol you weeaboooooo" I would get from drive-by posters...

 

[PdotMichael]

EDIT: Love all the upset people chiming in to say "you don't know what you're talking about because I say so" as if that statement is more valid than me relating my personal experience with anime. And maybe you should watch an anime about debating if you think "you have no evidence" is a counter-argument. Am I supposed to list 100 problematic anime so you can tell me I'm clearly wrong because there are thousands of shows out there?

Talking about strawman arguments.

Also fake quotes... lol.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Enough that your opinion becomes positive.

Not at all, give your opinion about what you know and don't extrapole the entire media.

I loath moe, pantyshoot, the "accidentally fall down with both my hands on some girl boobs" and all that jazz but that does not mean that I'll come here and say "Yeah anime is shit because it full of that stuff" I'll just say "I found some tropes to be bad or shitty".

 

[LaserBuddha]

And if it makes me any more qualified, I jerked it to quite a few hentai in my day.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

How much anime do I need to watch before I can have an opinion about anime?

You need to be able to give your top 5 seiyuu and the last 3 series each one worked in, a 1000 word dissertation on why the series that got you into the medium had such a profound effect on you, and submit references and letters of recommendations to the Elite Review Board.

 

[jstripes]

Sorta but not really, manga has practically equal readership between male and females, and the female orientated manga industry is massive, as in completely dwarfs any comic book equivalents. The issue is anime still largely pander to a shrinking male fanbase (though shows like free have shown a way forward).

I think the issue is the west largely thinks in terms of anime, but anime is mainly just merchandising etc, the general Otaku culture and the industry itself cares more for manga and LN sales.

I meant they're overshadowed in the public perception. Not by the size of their fanbase.

It seems like half the wall of graphic novels at the local big box book store is trashy bishounen stuff.

Otaku generally means any kind of obsessive nerd and the term is used in Japan also as far as I'm aware. Weeaboo more specifically means an American (or other Western nation) nerd who fetishizes Japanese culture and wishes they were Japanese.

Ya, otaku has its own specific meaning (military otaku were a big thing at one point), and it never caught on in the west outside of self-proclaimed "otaku". Weeaboo, thanks to 4chan, filled that gap nicely.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

How much anime do I need to watch before I can have an opinion about anime?

Cowboy Bebop

 

[firehawk12]

Sort of on topic, but you guys have no idea how much shit I got here for even criticising Red Line for its depiction of Sonoshee. Trust me, representations of the female body, female sexuality, and sexual identity (typically homophobia and now lately, "pandering") is something that people even in the AnimeGAF threads are talking about.

 

[SomTervo]

yes, but not in the open like feminist frequency stuff. but a lot of people @ kyoto university faculty of manga like jaqueline berndt are quite critical and also have contact to publishers etc.
just two weeks ago I was at a symposium and where she had a speech. it was quite interesting because she also shared personal stories and "behind the scenes" stories from her research. also a friend of mine studied in her class.

quite interesting the whole stuff. she also wrote a lot of books most of them are available in english. I'll have a speech in two weeks in english about it..

tl;dr: yes but it is usually academic only.

maybe one day I'll create a thread about it..but I fear the backlash and all the "lol you weeaboooooo" bullshit I would get.

please make the thread. the discussion might take forever to begin unless you do it. sometimes a conversation needs a kick-start.

Talking about strawman arguments.

Also fake quotes... lol.

A) He didn't make any strawman arguments

B) Strawman argument = fake quote, in essence

The people he was responding to were legitimately challenging him saying he doesn't know enough about it. Direct quote: "So you watched a couple of anime and that makes you an expert".

Otaku generally means any kind of obsessive nerd and the term is used in Japan also as far as I'm aware. Weeaboo more specifically means an American (or other Western nation) nerd who fetishizes Japanese culture and wishes they were Japanese.

OK, cool. That makes sense. The weeaboo is an otaku but the otaku isn't necessarily a weeaboo.

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

Cowboy Bebop

After that, go and get an autograph from Shinichiro Watanabe like I did.

 

[PK Gaming]

How much anime do I need to watch before I can have an opinion about anime?

You've (presumably) played Undertale

You're good to go

 

[LaserBuddha]

OK, cool. That makes sense. The weeaboo is an otaku but the otaku isn't necessarily a weeaboo.

This is a rare gem, very cringey video of an American weaboo in Japan being mocked on Japanese TV:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0eiIB5bVqns

 

[Mik317]

I don't think you need to be an expert but you should have more than a base knowledge of what you are talking about when critiquing it from a far.

I remember writing Madoka off because of its art style and then I watched it...shit was ace.

The issues with these type of threads is that people condemn whole mediums based off of very small sample sizes. "here look at this anime with tits...fuck this medium". and that is unfair.

I hate to use the comparison again but rap music has this same problem. Yes, a lot of rap music is about gettin money fuckin bitches fuck authority. But to write off the whole genre for that is unfair and shallow as fuck. I don't like country music but I am damn sure there are some great ass country songs out there. You just gotta look. When you are new to something or an outsider...more than likely you have to put in some work to find the good shit or the stuff that appeals to you. Expecting the genre/medium to change to suit your tastes is selfish and entitled as fuck. People really need to grasp that not everything is going to appeal to you. That's life. Doesn't make those things bad. That is the main issue I think a lot of the defenders take in these threads. Instead of it just being, "this isn't for me", its "this is garbage crap and the whole medium sucks", this gives off this stupid air of superiority all because you don't like thing. No one likes being considered lesser for things they enjoy...again that is unfair.

I watch maybe 1 series per season because most of it does not appeal to me. I also hate some tropes that pop up in anime. There was this one series this season, that seemed cool but then the good ole "fall into gropin" scene happen and I shut it off. Despite that being unfortunately frequent, I am not going to write off the whole medium..that is unfair as hell. I just either find stuff I do like (OPM and Gintama for this season..Digimon Tri maybe) or keep it moving as there has been seasons that had fuck all for me to watch. Shit happens. When I got into Anime, the majority of the reccomendations sucked..but for every series I ddin't like..there were Triguns, Bebops, and to a lesser extent lol Eva.

If you want to get into anime or at least see what it is about, you have to put in some legwork. Its like that for every medium tho. If you are new to it, you need to dig.

 

[SomTervo]

This is a rare gem, very cringey video of an American weaboo in Japan being mocked on Japanese TV:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0eiIB5bVqns

This is an absolute, shameless smackdown.

Edit: Oh, sweet jesus, when he teaches them the dance move

 

[RM8]

BTW, as someone who speaks some Japanese (because of my family, not because of Naruto ), I don't appreciate when people think I'm into anime just because of my (mediocre) knowledge of the language. That's not a thing that happens to learners of other languages! No one thinks I'm obsessed with reality shows just because I learned English. I doubt all Spanish students get immediately asked "do you like novelas?".

So yeah, I can be too upfront about my distaste for anime. Not that I think there's a bad reason to learn a language! I learned English because of games, and I'm sure there are tons of anime fans who are leagues better than me at Japanese.

 

[KazenY2J]

Is there an equivalent to Feminist Frequency for anime? Seems like such a group would be useful to promote anime that deals with gender issues well and both help steer people in the direction of better anime and help steer the average show in a more palatable direction.

That would pointless in my opinion, seeing as how the anime industry doesn't care about the West at all.

 

[SomTervo]

That would pointless in my opinion, seeing as how the anime industry doesn't care about the West at all.

So any discussion of something is pointless if it doesn't have a direct impact on the industry?

 

[muu]

These people are going to be pissed if anime ever supposedly goes 'mainstream' anyway. What happened to Marvel? It's a movie franchise now, where those guys you sorta knew from the comics, the saturday morning cartoons and such are being used as a backbone for $100m+ productions. That's what we're going to see if things go 'mainstream,' and what part of the art (to which many people have a distaste for), the intended geographic (Japan, which means content will have to be modified to fit western tastes), the story do you expect will remain?

Some of these fans have lofty expectations for a medium that in general struggles to make a profit, is still looking for a proper way of monetizing their ventures, and is frequently villified in the country where it's primarily produced.

 

[LaserBuddha]

So any discussion of something is pointless if it doesn't have a direct impact on the industry?

You'd get all of the hate and death threats with none of the potential influence. I can see why no one would bother. Also comments on videos would all be "how many anime have you watched?"

 

[Mik317]

I don't think many anime properties can even translate to the big screen in live action.

BeBop is pretty much it. GITS too but there is a lot of stuff that wouldnt translate from it. That and in order to get them to translate, there needs to be some money behind it and that just isn't going to happen right now. Marvel movies took off because Marvel was actually behind it and threw money and time at it.

That doesn't even begin to talk about the whitewashing that will happen.

It is an uphill battle for sure.

 

[RedSwirl]

Man, Vinland Saga needs to get an anime.

 

[Sianos]

yes, but not in the open like feminist frequency stuff. but a lot of people @ kyoto university faculty of manga like jaqueline berndt are quite critical and also have contact to publishers etc.
just two weeks ago I was at a symposium and where she had a speech. it was quite interesting because she also shared personal stories and "behind the scenes" stories from her research. also a friend of mine studied in her class.

quite interesting the whole stuff. she also wrote a lot of books most of them are available in english. I'll have a speech in two weeks in english about it..in my 5 years of studying japanese studies and japanese art history this must be one of the most interesting topics I've worked on..

tl;dr: yes but it is usually academic only.

maybe one day I'll create a thread about it..but I fear the backlash and all the "lol you weeaboooooo" I would get from drive-by posters...

I would definitely appreciate a thread like that. And I think serious discussion would dissuade drive-by posters, or at least lead to their condemnation.

Re: posts conflating feminism and "the west" - I understand that Feminist Frequency itself is a western group, but when I say "an equivalent for anime" I meant equivalent in terms of function and goals, not literally the same. The movement we call feminism may be centered in the western world, but the ideas of feminism are transcendental and expressed in many different cultures.

Does saying "a Japanese equivalent to Feminist Frequency that focuses on anime and manga" make that more clear?

 

[Principate]

I don't think many anime properties can even translate to the big screen in live action.

BeBop is pretty much it. GITS too but there is a lot of stuff that wouldnt translate from it. That and in order to get them to translate, there needs to be some money behind it and that just isn't going to happen right now. Marvel movies took off because Marvel was actually behind it and threw money and time at it.

That doesn't even begin to talk about the whitewashing that will happen.

It is an uphill battle for sure.

I highly many pure anime only franchises have much a chance. There's a reason why their fanbase is largely fairly small both home and abroad.

Things like Attack on Titan and decent adaptations of Shounen Jump properties have a chance because they have actually shown that market penetration both home and abroad.

 

[Sianos]

You'd get all of the hate and death threats with none of the potential influence. I can see why no one would bother. Also comments on videos would all be "how many anime have you watched?"

To be fair, Feminist Frequency itself had an entire movement rise up to spew foul death threats at them and even on GAF is sometimes met with the ol' "how many games did you play/you're not a real gamer" line of attack.

And I think it's starting to have an influence even in Japan, or at least so far in what they export - see: Nintendo edits a thirteen year old girl's clothing to not feature a crotch window swimsuit as default attire.

 

[RedSwirl]

I don't think many anime properties can even translate to the big screen in live action.

BeBop is pretty much it. GITS too but there is a lot of stuff that wouldnt translate from it. That and in order to get them to translate, there needs to be some money behind it and that just isn't going to happen right now. Marvel movies took off because Marvel was actually behind it and threw money and time at it.

That doesn't even begin to talk about the whitewashing that will happen.

It is an uphill battle for sure.

There are a lot more, but they're probably much less well-known. Is Del Toro still trying to work on a live action Monster series for HBO? Outside of that you'd probably have to dig into some pretty obscure manga.

 

[KazenY2J]

So any discussion of something is pointless if it doesn't have a direct impact on the industry?

Not saying it would be a bad idea, but it'll change nothing, Japan will keep doing what they're doing.

 

[Tohsaka]

To be fair, Feminist Frequency itself had an entire movement rise up to spew foul death threats at them and even on GAF is sometimes met with the ol' "how many games did you play/you're not a real gamer" line of attack.

And I think it's starting to have an influence even in Japan, or at least so far in what they export - see: Nintendo edits a thirteen year old girl's clothing to not feature a crotch window swimsuit as default attire.

I don't think Feminist Frequency had anything to do with that, since Nintendo has been censoring games since the 80s.

 

[boiled goose]

Dragonball z, pokemon are extremely geek mainstream now.

Something else is going on...

 

[flintstryker]

Anime is no different from any other medium in that the vast majority is shit with some genuine masterpieces to be founded as well. I could never understand how anyone can pretend otherwise I know people who also think all comic books are shit (equally stupid opinion) I see no reason for there to be a defense of the medium as it's no different from any other.

 

[SomTervo]

Not saying it would be a bad idea, but it'll change nothing, Japan will keep doing what they're doing.

You'd get all of the hate and death threats with none of the potential influence. I can see why no one would bother. Also comments on videos would all be "how many anime have you watched?"

I fully understand - but outlier conversations always start as sound and fury with no impact (or backlash) but gradually build up into larger effect/more conversations.

Obviously Japan has a very idiosyncratic culture and is insular in the respect, so it's more futile/gradual than usual. But discussions are still always worth having.

To be fair, Feminist Frequency itself had an entire movement rise up to spew foul death threats at them and even on GAF is sometimes met with the ol' "how many games did you play/you're not a real gamer" line of attack.

And I think it's starting to have an influence even in Japan, or at least so far in what they export - see: Nintendo edits a thirteen year old girl's clothing to not feature a crotch window swimsuit as default attire.

*Shudder*

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

Is there an equivalent to Feminist Frequency for anime? Seems like such a group would be useful to promote anime that deals with gender issues well and both help steer people in the direction of better anime and help steer the average show in a more palatable direction.

I think a problem with this is that Japan doesn't really care about us, and pretty much has us by the balls on what's being offered. And I'm not limiting it to anime either.

If something like this was going to happen, it has to be done by Japan. They're the main market, not us. We can discuss those things in AnimeGAF, and I've seen it before. But this definitely feels like a case where we can't really do anything about it because we're not the ones that get catered to mainly.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Sorta but not really, manga has practically equal readership between male and females, and the female orientated manga industry is massive, as in completely dwarfs any comic book equivalents. The issue is anime still largely pander to a shrinking male fanbase (though shows like free have shown a way forward).

But this is not true. The narrative I've seen in places that Free invented female-appealing anime is pretty silly. I brought up Gundam SEED earlier as an example of a show that was successful primarily due to a female fanbase. And if you look at the anime coming out today, there is a load of female-targeted ones. Just looking at the new TV anime from the fall season, you can point to Concrete Revolutio, Dance with Devils, Haikyuu S2,
K, Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans, Noragami Aragato, One Punch Man, Osomatsu-san, Seraph of the End, Starmyu, and Young Black Jack as anime that are clearly eyeing a female audience.

 

[muu]

I don't think many anime properties can even translate to the big screen in live action.

BeBop is pretty much it. GITS too but there is a lot of stuff that wouldnt translate from it. That and in order to get them to translate, there needs to be some money behind it and that just isn't going to happen right now. Marvel movies took off because Marvel was actually behind it and threw money and time at it.

That doesn't even begin to talk about the whitewashing that will happen.

It is an uphill battle for sure.

The other thing that Marvel has going for them is their loosely continuous Marvel universe. Fans of Thor, Ironman can instantly attach w/ the Avengers, and loose threads from other places tie into others. Every installation adds to the next one.

What are you going to do w/ manga? There are very rich worlds out there, but they are, in general, all-contained. It makes even the most successful or potent stories less valuable, because there's no prior notoriety it can associate itself with.