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How I learned to love The Witcher 3
- Thread starter OrbitalBeard
- Start date
I don't think we'll see souls type combat in AAA games simply because of the difficulty required. Put the Bloodborne movement/combat into any non character-action game, the enemies won't keep up and the hardest difficulty will still be easy.
So to counter that they'd need to balance things out either by increasing damage/health/resistance, limiting healing, increasing number of enemies, or giving enemies much improved AI. So, now you have soulsesque combat with soulsesque difficulty, too difficult for your standard AAA consumer and your big expensive AAA game drops from 5-7 million sales to 4-5, which is probably a bit tricky to explain to investors.
I had this issue with Dark souls when I was just fresh out of darksiders and had never played souls games before. I despised the souls combat and it felt wrong in so many levels.
Of course I got used to it after maybe 5 hours in the game.
Same was with witcher 3, just needed the time to switch from the souls type combat which was stuck in my head.
Of course I got used to it after maybe 5 hours in the game.
Same was with witcher 3, just needed the time to switch from the souls type combat which was stuck in my head.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Well, I'm definitely used to the combat now. However, I still think it's pretty bad. At least the magic is pretty fun to mess around with.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Consider that the bulk of their dev time is towards the combat system. They don't have nearly as many other things to focus or polish, I mean ffs they still release games with no lip movement on npcs.
Each to their own I guess.
The combat in the game is only really awful if you play on harder difficulties. Deathmarch on your first play through is ill-advised.
On normal it is good enough to get through the quests, and the story. Not much more.
That aside, I am extremely puzzled by the other complaints. The quests are not good? Complaints over V.A.? That is madness.
On normal it is good enough to get through the quests, and the story. Not much more.
That aside, I am extremely puzzled by the other complaints. The quests are not good? Complaints over V.A.? That is madness.
Lanrutcon
Member
The VA is so on point.
OrbitalBeard
Member
The quests have definitely gotten more interesting as I have progressed. I will say that this game has infinitely better missions than anything I've played in an Elder Scrolls game.
MightyKAC
Member
Obviously not every game needs to have souls combat in it (contrary to what some folks might think), but it absolutely needs to hit a few basic things like:
- Accurate hit boxes
- Responsive (i.e input lag free) controls
- AI that's not brain dead and susceptible to simplistic and repeatable (cheese) tactics
- The ability to make multiple different play styles (swords, or spells or whatever) viable
And while none of these are at all easy tasks, they are no less important to the overall package of an "action" adventure RPG than lore or story or quest structure or any of the multitude of things that the Witcher games excel at.
I guess that's why these types of games are so tough to get right since it takes serious expertise in a great deal of areas that ARPG's tend to cover.
Spacecowboy77
Member
Agree 100% with OP.
Played for 10-12 hours, couldn't get over how bad the gameplay is and just stopped. It's not fun.
Later people pressed me to continue playing "at least until the Baron quest", which I did.
Definitely was a good quest (with all the hype I was expecting more) but afterwards I trotted along again with the god awful controls and boring combat and just stopped again. Might be back to it sometime when my backlog clears but it's really a chore.
I'm stumped how people consider this their GOTY, but to each his own.
Played for 10-12 hours, couldn't get over how bad the gameplay is and just stopped. It's not fun.
Later people pressed me to continue playing "at least until the Baron quest", which I did.
Definitely was a good quest (with all the hype I was expecting more) but afterwards I trotted along again with the god awful controls and boring combat and just stopped again. Might be back to it sometime when my backlog clears but it's really a chore.
I'm stumped how people consider this their GOTY, but to each his own.
White Orchard is such a large area that it at first does not feel like the tutorial that it is. Much of the simplicity in the quest design is due to this.
And if anyone is interested, this mod: http://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/787/? improves the combat balance and fun significantly.
By the way bit of warning about an early game difficulty spike quest.
Without spoiling anything, there's a level 6 main quest called Wandering in the Dark that you do not want to do until properly prepared. Pack in some food (water bottles from innkeepers are among the cheapest), Swallow potion (gives health regen), few bottles of hard alcohol for potion/bomb replenishment (Mahakaman Spirit is cheapest), and some weapon repair kits. You're gonna do a lot of fighting.
Being slightly overleveled and geared also helps, but simply with some decent supplies you can do it immediately.
I think it's totally ok to hate Witcher 3, just as it's totally ok to hate Fallout 4 and Soulsborne series. There is no holy grail in games, there are more niche products and more mainstream ones. GOTYs are usually somewhere in between - showing enough innovation and freshness not to be completely mainstream, but then functioning properly and be accessible and transparent for the general public to actually enjoy it and appreciate the innovation.
Witcher 3 innovates with quality narrative, player agency and amazingly realised living and breathing world that's closer to Rockstar than to Bethesda. This world has laundries, shipbuilders, hunting grounds, farmsteads, it's so believable logical and consistent, it just clicks.
Bloodborne however is by far not the most accessible game from all points of perspective. It has convoluted story, almost no narrative, complex and unforgiving gameplay and a steep learning curve. It's a niche game by definition, an experiment of sorts. I'd say it's an antithesis for Witcher 3. Different types of players enjoy both of these games and for now it looks like the opposite types at that.
I love both games, but Bloodborne frustrated me immensely and not in gameplay area. What I find the most annoying is it's muddy narrative and totally static world with no player agency. There is no story. If you think there is - you've just invented one yourself, good job, the next guy probably invented another one. I am willing to forgive Witcher 3 shortcomings in terms of hitboxes and AI, but I am not willing to forgive Bloodborne's intentional lack of cohesive narrative.
And it's ok, just as it's ok to hate Witcher 3. It's no big deal, just read more user reviews next time you want to buy a game and don't trust professional critics.
Witcher 3 innovates with quality narrative, player agency and amazingly realised living and breathing world that's closer to Rockstar than to Bethesda. This world has laundries, shipbuilders, hunting grounds, farmsteads, it's so believable logical and consistent, it just clicks.
Bloodborne however is by far not the most accessible game from all points of perspective. It has convoluted story, almost no narrative, complex and unforgiving gameplay and a steep learning curve. It's a niche game by definition, an experiment of sorts. I'd say it's an antithesis for Witcher 3. Different types of players enjoy both of these games and for now it looks like the opposite types at that.
I love both games, but Bloodborne frustrated me immensely and not in gameplay area. What I find the most annoying is it's muddy narrative and totally static world with no player agency. There is no story. If you think there is - you've just invented one yourself, good job, the next guy probably invented another one. I am willing to forgive Witcher 3 shortcomings in terms of hitboxes and AI, but I am not willing to forgive Bloodborne's intentional lack of cohesive narrative.
And it's ok, just as it's ok to hate Witcher 3. It's no big deal, just read more user reviews next time you want to buy a game and don't trust professional critics.
Magic Mushroom
Member
Wrong. The BB one feels far better. Especially when you nail that parry and get that visceral.
This is incorrect btw. Not only is there a story, there's an interesting story there, probably my favorite one of the year.
Lux R7
Member
yeah i know. I'm fine with that, really, it's just not my cup of tea.
No, you're right, i don't play jrpgs. But i dislike the japanese kind of turn based combat, so there is also that. (i'm able to like turn based combat in other genres, i like HoM&M)
yeah, i was just saying that it's really important for me, at least in rpgs and arpgs.
Worlds fucked. Help us oh hunter.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
My God. Liking a game over the other truly can make people ignorant about stuff, huh? This is so wrong on so many levels in regards to Bloodborne's overall story it's not even funny, hahah.
Lux R7
Member
Magic Mushroom
Member
I guess if some people don't get their story presented to them on a plate through various cut-scenes they think it has no story to begin with,
Sure. That said, there is something to be said about narratives that rely almost completely on lore and other passive means.
For one, they should not be compared to traditional stories. The approaches are so extremely dissimilar that any juxtaposition falls apart almost instantly.
Denton
Member
Soulsborne have interesting stories, but I would wager 90% of players will never know them because they don't care much about reading item descriptions and wiki sites. In any case it's a completely different approach to narrative, not inherently better or worse, or rather, it is subjective.
Second half. The world is really fucked now.
The fan-fic everyone makes up for himself you mean? Sorry, but it's not BB's story, it's a story that you've invented. So if anything you should be given praise for making up a good story for BB instead of BB.
Moon_frogger
Member
In my experience it wasn't so much that combat was important to me as combat was important to witcher 3. That game had tons of slaughter. To its credit, they tried to do no violent solutions to quests and when I figured out how to do it I rejoiced, mostly because I hated the combat.
And let's be clear, it isn't really fair to compare this to something like elder scrolls. Those games are far more complex and try to do much more with their systems than witcher. Witcher is a 3rd person action game with rpg elements and a dialogue system. And I still feel like skyrim has more satisfying combat than witcher. Better ranged combat unquestionably. Better magic system too. In fact, it has way better gear progression, crafting, exploration...maybe I'll stop there.
My final point is that I still loved witcher 3. I feel like people are too defensive. It was still great, but the combat sucked.
OF COURSE THIS IS ALL MY OPINION THANKS.
Magic Mushroom
Member
Just because a lot of elements of it are open to intepretation doesn't mean there isn't a story there. Many things are set in stone and others aren't, which leads to interesting discussion. To me that's more interesting than aping movies, as it asks some commitment from the player.
Langdon Alger
Banned
If your game's story requires that the player read wiki sites, then it' s objectively worse.
NHarmonic.
Member
Agreed. It's also one of the main problems people had with FFXIII, tbh.
It doesnt though. Thats just the lazy way to get the story, reading a summary.
Nothing wrong with disliking a game, though it certainly should be possible to do so and still appreciate a game is good. I personally have disliked many popular games, but I also realize it is more my tastes than the game itself being flawed.
Witcher combat is respectable enough, but really it is more a part of the game than it is THE game. The world is gorgeous, just the other night my wife commented how pretty the game was. The voice acting it top notch and the while the dialogue choices may not be some people's cup of tea, it is well written. The equipment system was such a breath of fresh air after the one I hated in Dragon Age 3, and the fact that nearly all the items have their own appearance is commendable. The world is filled with things to do, and though the variety may not be perfect, the number of interesting side story items and places is absurdly varied and entertaining compared to any game I have played in the past 10-20 years.
Could the combat be better, easily yes, but I think it is good enough when combined with the rest of the game. Early on, money is tight and it can be a little daunting. Later you'll have plenty and it more becomes what nice thing do you want vs what thing you must have do you pick. The item degradation is not really an issue later. You'll have the cash to pay for it and plenty of usables to do field repairs. The horse mechanics are not super, but it is passable, especially as you can actually fight from horseback, unlike some games. The game has plenty of glitches, but they are not super common, and usually only annoying/humorous, than game breaking.
The gorgeous world, superb side and main stories, actual meaningful decisions in numerous places, and number of memorable and believable characters makes this game so above similar games that I can't help but feel it is the game of the decade for me. I don't say that lightly, and I have not finished it, though I am about 70% done. Yes it is not perfect, I happen to HATE the sections you play as the girl, and the inventory system blows.
If those positives have enough importance to you that they can make up for your dislike of the combat, stick with it for a bit, it really gets better and better... and yes, Gwent kicks ass, later there is even a high stakes tournament for it!
I hear ya, OP. I didn't hate W3, but after 30 hours of (mostly) boredom I gave up on it. It's highly polished, but the world is just no fun to explore (made even more evident now that I'm playing Fallout 4) and everything is too tedious/clunky. I also loathed that awful forced combat and Witcher sense sections were waiting around every turn.
Lanrutcon
Member
Is GameFAQs experiencing too much traffic or something?
silvermember
Banned
Bloodborne combat is shit compared to dragon's dogma. So there is that.
Bloodborne is an Action game not ARPG, so it better be good when it comes to action.
Witcher 3 is an rpg. Witcher 3 is a package deal, while bloodborne is a one truck pony focusing on average combat.
DD is the best combat game.
Witcher 3 mechanics + DD combat+ the dragon's voice= best rpg ever made.
Bloodborne is an Action game not ARPG, so it better be good when it comes to action.
Witcher 3 is an rpg. Witcher 3 is a package deal, while bloodborne is a one truck pony focusing on average combat.
DD is the best combat game.
Witcher 3 mechanics + DD combat+ the dragon's voice= best rpg ever made.
Lol.
silvermember
Banned
I don't blame you for your one word response, you couldn't think of a good retort. It's OK. Either respond like someone with grey matter or don't.
My time around DS/bloodborne fans have also indicate a cult like behavior. It is OK, you are free to like what you like but DS/bloodborne combat wish it was even on par with DD. DD does a lot of things that DD does not and cannot.
U wot m8
Replenishing towns/villages gives you access to new merchants
Access to more of the most important thing in the game
Gwent cards
FTFY
Is there any way to start Witcher 3 with an end-game character ?
I like the story, some of the quests, the dialogues and the overall world but I find the gear progression to be tedious and horrible, the level progression completely unbalanced and the combat frustrating (it could have been very enjoyable with a few tweaks).
So I think I'd enjoy the game much more if I could start straight into NG+ with end-game equipment and perks, focusing on the actual world.
I like the story, some of the quests, the dialogues and the overall world but I find the gear progression to be tedious and horrible, the level progression completely unbalanced and the combat frustrating (it could have been very enjoyable with a few tweaks).
So I think I'd enjoy the game much more if I could start straight into NG+ with end-game equipment and perks, focusing on the actual world.
Magic Mushroom
Member
Nah, It's just an entirely different approach to combat.
Well, it's not like you were presenting any kind of argument. You were just stating something. So why should I bother coming up with anything to refute your statement ?
I just found it funny that you're trying to defend TW3 mechanics by downgrading Bloodborne's (widely acclaimed) combat.
Haha. I think this is apt. Because one game does something particularly brilliantly doesn't mean another game (which overlaps in genre) needs to do it just as well.
Bloodborne did spoil us for combat though. The Witcher 3's system is a bitter pill to swallow if you were still in love with BB when TW3 came out.
1. Lower the difficulty to Easy. Sorted.
2. Download a save for the game - not sure if this works well on console but on PC you can definitely load an NG+ Geralt.
Some people... opinions I guess, lol.
I mean, he's not wrong about Dragon's Dogma being GOAT for action RPG combat. Unfortunately it falters in almost every other aspect.
Clarkus Darkus
Member
Dark Souls had all the answers for gameplay, Then Dragons Dogma came along and changed the questions.
I just started the game over this weekend and I believe I'm still in the tutorial area, White Orchard? Just
But so far this game seems fucking fantastic! Totally exceeding my expectations I had in place. I'm sure it just gets better from here on out.
Graphics, story telling and combat are insanely good, Geralt's movement though is a tad weird and "slippery" (hard to explain).
The game systems seem a little complicated but otherwise I'm feeling its hooks dig into me at like 5 hours in.
killed the griffin and met Yennifer
But so far this game seems fucking fantastic! Totally exceeding my expectations I had in place. I'm sure it just gets better from here on out.
Graphics, story telling and combat are insanely good, Geralt's movement though is a tad weird and "slippery" (hard to explain).
The game systems seem a little complicated but otherwise I'm feeling its hooks dig into me at like 5 hours in.
antennaehead
Member
In my experience, Witcher 3 is a rather mediocre game. The majority of its gamey systems aren't great, they don't excel at anything, they are just merely okay or serviceable.
However, its main selling point is story, and everything associated with it.
Personally, I would prefer if all those RPG elements and stats were removed, and instead additional time would be spend on polishing combat.
However, its main selling point is story, and everything associated with it.
Personally, I would prefer if all those RPG elements and stats were removed, and instead additional time would be spend on polishing combat.
1. I'd still need to go look for the equipment I want.
2. Sadly, I'm on PS4 or I'd go that route in a heartbeat.
Game was offered on PS+ so I loaded it a few months ago and goddamit if it wasn't the most boring thing ever.
I saw videos of people escalating giants and whatnot but I picked a different class (mage) so the game was mostly a lock and shoot...
Theres your problem.
The combat in Bloodborne is SO good.
Witcher 3 combat is inexcusably, unquestionably shit.
I put in probably close to 100 hours in W3 and beat it. Had a handful of moments where I enjoyed a piece of combat but other than that. Total shit.
"Dark Souls thought he had it all..."
1. Cosmetically you mean? That is a bit of a bummer. Surely on Easy you can rock whatever looks good, though?
2. Crap indeed. I know you can transfer saves using a USB drive - are there not saves you can download online? (Haven't looked into it.)
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
This is your problem OP and I had the same issue. You came from a game with arguably some of the best combat in a game ever to a game with extremely mediocre combat systems.
I will say this though. If you keep playing it will pass and you will embrace WC3 for what it is.