Why are you not willing to donate your organs?

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Milksheikhs said:
No one can say what comes after death one way or another as no one has come back from death (not talking about those people who were dead for like a few minutes).
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Even if you believe in an afterlife, it's pretty clear your body rots to all outside observers.

We're not telling you to alter your belief system.

What if you're in need of an organ? Do you refuse it?

If you take it you're indicting yourself in hypocrisy, as all major religions have a variation of the golden rule.
 
The Spoony Hou said:
I'm no Buddhist so I can't really comment on that. But it seems to me you're misinterpreting his quote.
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Then disregard my previous comment. I am ignorant as to what other religions/systems of belief practice meditation. Buddhism is the only one I'm even somewhat familiar with due to it having tangential philosophical implementations. In any case, spiritual/religious beliefs that keep a person from donating their organs are the only reasons I can give any sort of 'pass' on because I try to (note: try, often fail) to be tolerant, but I cannot help but get frustrated when people are suffering and dying and I see beliefs hurting the chances of alleviating their woes.
 
Krejlooc said:
why does that not count?
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I guess if you want to count it sure, but then there are a lot of people who experience "put of body" and "after-death" experiences.

When I say death I mean that there is absolutely no brain activity. Most of the people who have these "after-death" experiences are because parts of their brain are still active despite their heartbeat stopping.
 
Nope, and I'm against presumed consent. It's fairly common (too lazy to find source) that a lot of the time donors over here in the UK never get to donate due to clerical error or delays. So switching that around to an opt-out system would be a nightmare. They need to focus on getting the opt-in system working 100% of the time before they should even consider switching it.

As for my reasons, the world is over-populated enough already. Every time nature tries to fucking balance us with an epidemic we moan it's a catastrophe. We've created this whole society where nobody loses, where every death is a tragedy; all whilst we're killing every other inhabitant of the planet and burning up our last resources to maintain this shitty social construct we've all ignorantly live in. We're stupid, we spend billions on war to kill other people, then billions on drugs to stop other people from catching colds. All whilst our space program hasn't put a man on the moon in over 40 years, our ice caps are melting and we're still paying the stupidest people in society benefit money to out-breed the smartest.

So no, I won't donate my organs.
 
entrement said:
Even if you believe in an afterlife, it's pretty clear your body rots to all outside observers.

We're not telling you to alter your belief system.

What if you're in need of an organ? Do you refuse it?

If you take it you're indicting yourself in hypocrisy, as all major religions have a variation of the golden rule.
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I'm pretty sure I'm an organ donor (can't remember because it was awhile ago) but my state id has a heart on it, so I'm pretty positive that means I'm a donor. So personally this debate doesn't affect me. But some people might have a religious or personal belief that all their organs are needed to stay intact wth their body for the after-life. That's their belief, and it can't be disproven as no one has come back from the dead to tell us anything. So that's what I meant by the previous comment.
 
RoyalFool said:
As for my reasons, the world is over-populated enough already. Every time nature tries to fucking balance us with an epidemic we moan it's a catastrophe. We've created this whole society where nobody loses, where every death is a tragedy; all whilst we're killing every other inhabitant of the planet and burning up our last resources to maintain this shitty social construct we've all ignorantly live in. We're stupid, we spend billions on war to kill other people, then billions on drugs to stop other people from catching colds. All whilst our space program hasn't put a man on the moon in over 40 years, our ice caps are melting and we're still paying the stupidest people in society benefit money to out-breed the smartest.
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Got a source on the world being overpopulated?
 
RoyalFool said:
Nope, and I'm against presumed consent. It's fairly common (too lazy to find source) that a lot of the time donors over here in the UK never get to donate due to clerical error or delays. So switching that around to an opt-out system would be a nightmare. They need to focus on getting the opt-in system working 100% of the time before they should even consider switching it.

As for my reasons, the world is over-populated enough already. Every time nature tries to fucking balance us with an epidemic we moan it's a catastrophe. We've created this whole society where nobody loses, where every death is a tragedy; all whilst we're killing every other inhabitant of the planet and burning up our last resources to maintain this shitty social construct we've all ignorantly live in. We're stupid, we spend billions on war to kill other people, then billions on drugs to stop other people from catching colds. All whilst our space program hasn't put a man on the moon in over 40 years, our ice caps are melting and we're still paying the stupidest people in society benefit money to out-breed the smartest.

So no, I won't donate my organs.
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Overpopulation is a definite problem, but shouldn't the focus be to get people to reduce repopulating instead of letting those already alive die in order to reach an equilibrium with the ecosystem? As for the moon, we basically went to The Moon as part of a race and prove we could do it. There's not much to do on The Moon which is why focus has shifted towards Mars.
 
Milksheikhs said:
I'm pretty sure I'm an organ donor (can't remember because it was awhile ago) but my state id has a heart on it, so I'm pretty positive that means I'm a donor. So personally this debate doesn't affect me. But some people might have a religious or personal belief that all their organs are needed to stay intact wth their body for the after-life. That's their belief, and it can't be disproven as no one has come back from the dead to tell us anything. So that's what I meant by the previous comment.
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Gotcha. My mistake.
 
The other big issue for me is that the healthcare system here is stacked against the poor; I would not be willing to donate to such a system of inequality.

Edit:
RoyalFool said:
Nope, and I'm against presumed consent. It's fairly common (too lazy to find source) that a lot of the time donors over here in the UK never get to donate due to clerical error or delays. So switching that around to an opt-out system would be a nightmare. They need to focus on getting the opt-in system working 100% of the time before they should even consider switching it.

As for my reasons, the world is over-populated enough already. Every time nature tries to fucking balance us with an epidemic we moan it's a catastrophe. We've created this whole society where nobody loses, where every death is a tragedy; all whilst we're killing every other inhabitant of the planet and burning up our last resources to maintain this shitty social construct we've all ignorantly live in. We're stupid, we spend billions on war to kill other people, then billions on drugs to stop other people from catching colds. All whilst our space program hasn't put a man on the moon in over 40 years, our ice caps are melting and we're still paying the stupidest people in society benefit money to out-breed the smartest.

So no, I won't donate my organs.
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Just wow...
 
RoyalFool said:
Nope, and I'm against presumed consent. It's fairly common (too lazy to find source) that a lot of the time donors over here in the UK never get to donate due to clerical error or delays. So switching that around to an opt-out system would be a nightmare. They need to focus on getting the opt-in system working 100% of the time before they should even consider switching it.

As for my reasons, the world is over-populated enough already. Every time nature tries to fucking balance us with an epidemic we moan it's a catastrophe. We've created this whole society where nobody loses, where every death is a tragedy; all whilst we're killing every other inhabitant of the planet and burning up our last resources to maintain this shitty social construct we've all ignorantly live in. We're stupid, we spend billions on war to kill other people, then billions on drugs to stop other people from catching colds. All whilst our space program hasn't put a man on the moon in over 40 years, our ice caps are melting and we're still paying the stupidest people in society benefit money to out-breed the smartest.

So no, I won't donate my organs.
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So let me get this straight. You won't donate your organs due to the fact that we as a society are going downhill in your opinion so you don't intend to support it after your death? And if that is your point, do you believe that even a society like that has people that 'deserve' your organs after your passing?
Plus, if overpopulation is an issue, should we not solve it by contraception rather than letting people that can be saved die?
 
MikeDip said:
It's not. Malthusian thoughts have been long since debunked.
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Some guy was wrong hundreds of years ago, doesn't mean the system doesn't have a tipping point that messes up the equilibrium. Most systems do. Not saying we're there but bringing up Malthus is a a worthless argument in my book.
 
MikeDip said:
It's not. Malthusian thoughts have been long since debunked.
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Oh I'm sure we can (and will) cram more of us on it, but at what cost? life on earth would be far better if there were fewer of us. Wouldn't have a huge hole in the o-zone for a start, don't really see how you can argue with it. I guess humans are going to be a bit biased.
 
RoyalFool said:
Nope, and I'm against presumed consent. It's fairly common (too lazy to find source) that a lot of the time donors over here in the UK never get to donate due to clerical error or delays. So switching that around to an opt-out system would be a nightmare. They need to focus on getting the opt-in system working 100% of the time before they should even consider switching it.

As for my reasons, the world is over-populated enough already. Every time nature tries to fucking balance us with an epidemic we moan it's a catastrophe. We've created this whole society where nobody loses, where every death is a tragedy; all whilst we're killing every other inhabitant of the planet and burning up our last resources to maintain this shitty social construct we've all ignorantly live in. We're stupid, we spend billions on war to kill other people, then billions on drugs to stop other people from catching colds. All whilst our space program hasn't put a man on the moon in over 40 years, our ice caps are melting and we're still paying the stupidest people in society benefit money to out-breed the smartest.

So no, I won't donate my organs.
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RoyalFool said:
Oh I'm sure we can (and will) cram more of us on it, but at what cost? life on earth would be far better if there were fewer of us. Wouldn't have a huge hole in the o-zone for a start, don't really see how you can argue with it. I guess humans are going to be a bit biased.
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Are you a 14 year old nihilist by chance?
 
RoyalFool said:
Oh I'm sure we can (and will) cram more of us on it, but at what cost? life on earth would be far better if there were fewer of us. Wouldn't have a huge hole in the o-zone for a start, don't really see how you can argue with it. I guess humans are going to be a bit biased.
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if you believe everything you have vomitted in this topic, then do you take any means to treat yourself when you are sick? If so, why not just let nature take its course?
 
A body is just matter, once your conciousness ceases to exist, who the fuck cares what happens with it. It's simply an empty shell.

If people need something I don't need, then they can gladly have it.



That said, I think lab grown organs will largely replace the need for donors in the near future.
 
I have actually been considering it lately, haven't done any research but it's been on my mind. I guess thats a first step
 
D4Danger said:
it should be opt-out and if you opt-out you should go to the bottom of the list
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This. Anyone not willing to be a donor themselves should be bottom of the barrel priority when it comes to receiving organs.

And for those saying they don't want to give organs to people who don't take care of their bodies or bad people, spare a thought for the vast number of those like my sister who's going to go into renal failure probably in the next year through no fault of her own. Maybe you can't pick and choose who gets your stuff when you're dead, but one person's organs can save up to eight people, so surely if even one of those is someone like my sister, it's something worth doing.
 
Nils said:
Some guy was wrong hundreds of years ago, doesn't mean the system doesn't have a tipping point that messes up the equilibrium. Most systems do. Not saying we're there but bringing up Malthus is a a worthless argument in my book.
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We're gonna have underpopulation crisis in the next coming decades.

It may help the planet some, but we're not overpopulated.

And the fact that our social welfare programs are based on growing population, it's gonna be a wild ride.

The coming underpopulation crisis is something demographers have know for decades, btw. But it's rather unknown to the general public.
 
entrement said:
We're gonna have underpopulation crisis in the next coming decades.

It may help the planet some, but we're not overpopulated.

And the fact that our social welfare programs are based on growing population, it's gonna be a wild ride.

The coming underpopulation crisis is something demographers have know for decades, btw. But it's rather unknown to the general public.
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Again, could be. I'm just saying just because someone was wrong a few centuries ago about overpopulation when there were wildly different circumstances doesn't mean it can't ever become a thing. Same thing with people invoking the Luddites. I also wager the underpopulation crisis will be more of an economic crisis than an environmental one although there is of course some overlap.
 
Nils said:
Again, could be. I'm just saying just because someone was wrong a few centuries ago about overpopulation when there were wildly different circumstances doesn't mean it can't ever become a thing. Same thing with people invoking the Luddites. I also wager the underpopulation crisis will be more of an economic crisis than an environmental one although there is of course some overlap.
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The data and models don't support any overpopulation hypothesis. It's a myth at this point.
 
NoblesseOblige said:
Then disregard my previous comment. I am ignorant as to what other religions/systems of belief practice meditation. Buddhism is the only one I'm even somewhat familiar with due to it having tangential philosophical implementations. In any case, spiritual/religious beliefs that keep a person from donating their organs are the only reasons I can give any sort of 'pass' on because I try to (note: try, often fail) to be tolerant, but I cannot help but get frustrated when people are suffering and dying and I see beliefs hurting the chances of alleviating their woes.
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Well, I'm sorry to sound selfish, but like I said, when I die, I want to to accept death fully. And I'd expect those people in suffering to understand they've caused harm to their bodies and that they might die because of it, as most of us do. Life is not without consequences.

I'm happy you give some degree of acceptance to the religious, but really, you should extend it to all of people. People will always live by what they understand, be it a religious or scientific based belief.
 
Aiustis said:
Except mine isn't based on convictions from false information, but rather my desire to not have anyone I wouldn't want to associate with live off my organs.
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I'd take a misguided concern about the continued existence of the world over arrogant spite that perscribes death to anyone you don't like and extends to their children too.
 
The Spoony Hou said:
Well, I'm sorry to sound selfish, but like I said, when I die, I want to to accept death fully. And I'd expect those people in suffering to understand they've caused harm to their bodies and that they might die because of it, as most of us do. Life is not without consequences.

I'm happy you give some degree of acceptance to the religious, but really, you should extend it to all of people. People will always live by what they understand, be it a religious or scientific based belief.
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A close friend of mine almost died because his kidneys began failing when he was a teenager due to a rare disorder. He did nothing to 'deserve' it. His life was saved by a kidney transplant. That you say that people who are in need of an organ transplant are getting some kind of sadistic comeuppance both saddens and angers me.

When your brain dies, so do you. The remaining material can prevent the death or suffering of others, many of them wholly innocent of any 'sinful behaviour' for which they must now 'pay the price', at no cost to you. If you believe that you don't actually die and go onto an afterlife, it remains clear from the most basic of evidence that your organs do not go with you. To deny others the chance to be healed because you think that organ harvesting is icky is one of the most pointlessly callous things I can think of.

I hope someday you think it through and change your mind.
 
Aiustis said:
Except mine isn't based on convictions from false information, but rather my desire to not have anyone I wouldn't want to associate with live off my organs.
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You are to be fair logically consistent if you would rather sentence everyone to death than leave any chance of a person that you don't like not dying. I hope that that is not your thought process at it shows a very dangerous mind.

If it is your thought process and you are therefore logically consistent, then if you're comfortable playing executioner passively, why not do it actively? Why not bomb a city? Some you dislike would almost certainly be among your victims.
 
entrement said:
The data and models don't support any overpopulation hypothesis. It's a myth at this point.
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"At this point" is fairly central to what I'm arguing. Demographics shifted a lot this last few centuries and can easily do the same in the future.
 
LaserBuddha said:
I'd take a misguided concern about the continued existence of the world over arrogant spite that perscribes death to anyone you don't like and extends to their children too.
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People die all the time; while I don't wish death on anyone or their offspring I certainly am not going to lend a helping hand in death to anyone I wouldn't help out in life. Even if it means they die. I've had relatives who needed donations that didn't get them; it happens.

If you could check off a list and say which people could get your organs I'd be okay with donating.

My other issue is the terribly inequality in the healthcare system that screws over poorer people who need organs; I'm also not willing to support that kind system.
 
grumble said:
A close friend of mine almost died because his kidneys began failing when he was a teenager due to a rare disorder. He did nothing to 'deserve' it. His life was saved by a kidney transplant. That you say that people who are in need of an organ transplant are getting some kind of sadistic comeuppance both saddens and angers me.

When your brain dies, so do you. The remaining material can prevent the death or suffering of others, many of them wholly innocent of any 'sinful behaviour' for which they must now 'pay the price', at no cost to you. If you believe that you don't actually die and go onto an afterlife, it remains clear from the most basic of evidence that your organs do not go with you. To deny others the chance to be healed because you think that organ harvesting is icky is one of the most pointlessly callous things I can think of.

I hope someday you think it through and change your mind.
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Just because it's a rare disorder doesn't mean it actually came out of nowhere, though yes, I understand science doesn't know everything and lots of diseases come unpredicted. Those things happen. I'm happy he is well now, and I wish him all the best. I'm not against second chances, and I want him to live his life the way he sees fit. As I want to live my life (and "die my death") the way I see fit.

I don't worry, I fully might change my mind.
 
My Dad picked up a donor consent form for my Mom, and it's yet to be filled out. It's just sitting there behind a stereo in the kitchen, and seeing it haunts me. Knowing that she'll go one day scares the shit out of me, and she's had health issues she's beaten but is unable to walk.
 
RoyalFool said:
Nope, and I'm against presumed consent. It's fairly common (too lazy to find source) that a lot of the time donors over here in the UK never get to donate due to clerical error or delays. So switching that around to an opt-out system would be a nightmare. They need to focus on getting the opt-in system working 100% of the time before they should even consider switching it.

As for my reasons, the world is over-populated enough already. Every time nature tries to fucking balance us with an epidemic we moan it's a catastrophe. We've created this whole society where nobody loses, where every death is a tragedy; all whilst we're killing every other inhabitant of the planet and burning up our last resources to maintain this shitty social construct we've all ignorantly live in. We're stupid, we spend billions on war to kill other people, then billions on drugs to stop other people from catching colds. All whilst our space program hasn't put a man on the moon in over 40 years, our ice caps are melting and we're still paying the stupidest people in society benefit money to out-breed the smartest.

So no, I won't donate my organs.
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What's the point of perfecting a system just to immediately switch away from it? That would be stupidly inefficient.

I'm guessing you don't take any medicines when you get sick, right? Or are you just upset about them existing to help other people?

Also, I never knew before now that the UK put people on the moon.
 
The Spoony Hou said:
Just because it's a rare disorder doesn't mean it actually came out of nowhere, though yes, I understand science doesn't know everything and lots of diseases come unpredicted. Those things happen. I'm happy he is well now, and I wish him all the best. I'm not against second chances, and I want him to live his life the way he sees fit. As I want to live my life (and "die my death") the way I see fit.

I don't worry, I fully might change my mind.
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So you think genetic disorders are something...deserved or 'earned' via lifestyle? Somehow, somewhere down the line? I'm just trying to understand the thought process here.
 
Aiustis said:
People die all the time; while I don't wish death on anyone or their offspring I certainly am not going to lend a helping hand in death to anyone I wouldn't help out in life. Even if it means they die. I've had relatives who needed donations that didn't get them; it happens.

If you could check off a list and say which people could get your organs I'd be okay with donating.

My other issue is the terribly inequality in the healthcare system that screws over poorer people who need organs; I'm also not willing to support that kind system.
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So you had relatives that died due to not getting transplants, and yet are perfectly content with doing the same thing to another person? What that was someone else's mentality and thus your relatives didn't get the organs because of it? It's a vicious goddamn cycle that will be perpetuated until someone decides not to be a dick and break it. I don't understand how someone would rather their organs decompose instead of giving it to a stranger.


The last issue is understandable, you not wanting to support something as heinous as that is understandable. Not sure if it's true or not, but if it is, understandable not to want to support it.
 
Nils said:
Some guy was wrong hundreds of years ago, doesn't mean the system doesn't have a tipping point that messes up the equilibrium. Most systems do. Not saying we're there but bringing up Malthus is a a worthless argument in my book.
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??

I'm not bringing him up. I'm bringing up the thought process named after him. Which is bunk. Even today.
 
entrement said:
We're gonna have underpopulation crisis in the next coming decades.

It may help the planet some, but we're not overpopulated.

And the fact that our social welfare programs are based on growing population, it's gonna be a wild ride.

The coming underpopulation crisis is something demographers have know for decades, btw. But it's rather unknown to the general public.
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I wish more people knew :(

Were barely hanging on here in Canada because of immigration. Yet people want less immigration, the fools..
 
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