BananaPancake
Member
Oh I understand, it's "determined upon death". That makes sense. Thank you very much for the info
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Why are you not willing to donate your organs?
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Oh I understand, it's "determined upon death". That makes sense. Thank you very much for the info
.DarkHeartedKill
Member
I kinda wanna do the whole become a tree thing when I die.
D
Deleted member 13876
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Whosoever holds this liver, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of dalin80.
LaserBuddha
Member
Calling people selfish who literally called themselves selfish first is why kaiserdude wants to make sure he doesn't inadvertently save my life with one of his organs. Okay.
Thanks GAF for keeping the crazy coming. I'm going to need a sides transplant soon because my sides are decimated. Maybe one of these sad fucks who would get jealous if someone stole their shit out of a toilet can donate their sides. They probably don't laugh much.
Thanks GAF for keeping the crazy coming. I'm going to need a sides transplant soon because my sides are decimated. Maybe one of these sad fucks who would get jealous if someone stole their shit out of a toilet can donate their sides. They probably don't laugh much.
DarkHeartedKill
Member
Are you sure you took care of em? Did you grow your own food and live off the land? I highly doubt some of the stuff you consumed was very good for your organs. If you want to go to the extreme of "maybe they'll misuse them and stuff!!!!" Well, maybe the person you donate the organs to and save the life of cures cancer or finds a way to artificially create working organs.
Oh wow. I just registered at https://register.transplant.bc.ca and it took 2 minutes.
I'm an organ donor now ^_____^
Everyone should register now that has struggled with "not having time" and expecting it to take you mailing in something and getting an organ donor card, good chance it's a very quick online process.
Maybe not in the US, but if you're in countries like Canada it seems it can be tied to your medical number - Register now. There's nothing holding you back, just need your medical number. Google search organ donation in your area.
For you Banana, it prompted me the following:
1) Do you want to donate all your organs and tissues for transplant?
2) Or do you want to donate specific organs (and I could select each)
3) Do you also want to donate for scientific research?
4) No I do not want to donate any organs.
It may be different for a lot of people in the US depending on state, but there is no work required for you to do a quick google search to see if you can register online. Everyone reading this thread that isn't the selfish people we're debating with, should look online right now to see what it takes. It may also be a 2 minute process for you too.
I'm an organ donor now ^_____^
Everyone should register now that has struggled with "not having time" and expecting it to take you mailing in something and getting an organ donor card, good chance it's a very quick online process.
Maybe not in the US, but if you're in countries like Canada it seems it can be tied to your medical number - Register now. There's nothing holding you back, just need your medical number. Google search organ donation in your area.
For you Banana, it prompted me the following:
1) Do you want to donate all your organs and tissues for transplant?
2) Or do you want to donate specific organs (and I could select each)
3) Do you also want to donate for scientific research?
4) No I do not want to donate any organs.
It may be different for a lot of people in the US depending on state, but there is no work required for you to do a quick google search to see if you can register online. Everyone reading this thread that isn't the selfish people we're debating with, should look online right now to see what it takes. It may also be a 2 minute process for you too.
No friend. I can tell organ donation is important to you, and on a personal level I agree with your position. Personally, I recommend everyone to be an organ donor and I'm sure most, if not all of my colleagues would also agree with your stance.
But there's a reason why every physician undergoes training in medical ethics. Each patient's view of their own body and health is unique and one that must be respected, even if our position as a physician disagrees with their view.
As much as I love being a doctor, the medical field has a very dark history of making decisions based on the the belief that the end justifies the means. As a result, there's a reason why the argument of "ends justify the means" does not hold any weight in either medicine or in a court of law dealing with medical practice.
Because of our past mistakes, patient autonomy and the freedom to make decisions about their body without judgement on our part is a core principle of medical care.
Rational, intelligent discussion through means of education is the best way of improving our society. Resorting to shame or other forms of emotional manipulation- as has been shown throughout history- is not effective in the long run. Educating people on why something is the right thing to do and helping them come to that viewpoint through their own volition is the best way to improve society. It's easier said than done, I concede, but often the most difficult method is the one that produces the best results.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Doctors pushing to harvest while you're not actually dead is the main concern for me.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Ugh. I just did a little preliminary research and apparently being a living donor can impact your ability to find affordable health insurance in the US. Not being able to afford the coverage I'd like was bad enough, but now I can't even reasonably donate a piece of me I don't need without possibly going bankrupt. If anyone is aware of an alternative option please share it.
Why do you think that?
Especially in a country like the US, where the major concern for doctors is malpractice suits.
So even if you were to think poorly of doctors ethics, then they would be more concerned about lawsuits then saving someone's life.
Move to a better country. But a more serious answer, the reason why being a live donor is the same with anything in American health insurance, it's a pre-existing condition. You aren't as healthy when you've donated part of your liver for example, so you are more at risk for being costly to the insurance company. It's a sacrifice.
But being an organ donor so upon death your organs are donated is not a sacrifice (unless you have some religious belief that you need to go against as your sacrifice).
DarkHeartedKill
Member
Errr. I don't really agree with the ends justifying the means considering some messsed up crap could be justifyed. I'd say teaching people about organ donation and letting them make informed decisions would be better than coercion.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I'm fine with not having any coverage after I've donated. But it shouldn't impact me before hand. At the very least recipient insurance should be paying for a living donor's expenses.
Do you feel the same way about pregnant women that make the choice to smoke? Or someone who's drunk that make the choice to drive?
This isn't a fat shaming situation. Their ignorant or hateful choices are affecting another persons life and health potentially. Why isn't that worthy of being shamed or looked down upon by society? If none of those are, what is?
The Spoony Hou
Member
When I die, I want to be fully dead. My organs are a part of me. Though I might change my mind when I get older.
Believe it or not, there's a "black market" for organs, especially organs of people of color. And some of the missing kids or unexplained deaths of black people are implied to be linked. Here's an example: http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/09/us/georgia-gym-mat-death/
So yeah, no thank you.
I've even heard things like being a donor makes you a target, as crazy as it may sound....but in this current climate with all this bullshit going on I would NOT be surprised.
So yeah, no thank you.
I've even heard things like being a donor makes you a target, as crazy as it may sound....but in this current climate with all this bullshit going on I would NOT be surprised.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
If you're dead then you clearly have no right to dictate that others can't take care of their own organs. Otherwise why would you be dead, huh, mr/miss dead persons?
[QUOTE="D";188329931]Believe it or not, there's a "black market" for organs, especially organs of people of color. And some of the missing kids or unexplained deaths of black people are implied to be linked. Here's an example: http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/09/us/georgia-gym-mat-death/
So yeah, no thank you.[/QUOTE]
What does being killed for your organs have anything to do with organ donation?
Whether he was a donor or not, wouldn't have stopped someone from killing him.
In fact, the issue is the lack of organ donors that drives a stronger black market. If everyone was an organ donor, there wouldn't be such a demand for a black market.
So by not donating your organs, you are increasing the black market demand and deaths of people for their organs.
So yeah, no thank you.[/QUOTE]
What does being killed for your organs have anything to do with organ donation?
Whether he was a donor or not, wouldn't have stopped someone from killing him.
In fact, the issue is the lack of organ donors that drives a stronger black market. If everyone was an organ donor, there wouldn't be such a demand for a black market.
So by not donating your organs, you are increasing the black market demand and deaths of people for their organs.
yanipheonu
Member
To be fair, our inevitable march towards death isn't exactly something people like to think about, I remember a movie where a woman's sole job was convincing people to donate organs and that was a major thing. People don't like to be reminded to that, and the emotions are understandably complicated.
Let see... that movie was All About My Mother. Same movie has her travelling to following someone who has her son's transplanted heart. Again, complicated. Knowing your organs will be traveling around in someone else is a pretty complicated feeling, even in an entirely secular way.
Let see... that movie was All About My Mother. Same movie has her travelling to following someone who has her son's transplanted heart. Again, complicated. Knowing your organs will be traveling around in someone else is a pretty complicated feeling, even in an entirely secular way.
The Spoony Hou
Member
As I said, my organs are a part of me. I am who I am because of my whole body. And I want all of it dead at the same time. Call it religious belief if you will.
FortuneFaded
Member
First, unless you have it documented in a will, you aren't because organ donor is universal and handled by state or federal organizations.
Second, your organs have a limited shelf life after your death so unless you have the exact timing of family members all needing your separate organs and being compatible with you (again lowers the chances significantly), you are not donating to your family and those organs will be buried with you or burned with you if cremated - going to waste.
I understand the altruistic reasoning behind donating organs, but why go in on people who are against it? If they don't want to donate then that's them
NoblesseOblige
Banned
So you're saying you'd actually feel like you weren't whole if you lost any part of you? Where does someone who thinks like that draw the limits. Are you able to feel your organs? Because I can't. Do you see others as lesser of their former self if they lost a leg or arm? Does it bother you that your skin dies to be shed and collected on the earth around you before the rest of your body?
Edit:
[QUOTE="D";188331272]I understand the altruistic reasoning behind donating organs, but why go in on people who are against it? If they don't want to donate then that's them[/QUOTE]
Same reason I question those who make other antisocial decisions.
I'm not saying "the ends justify the means" is a mantra to live life by. I'm saying here, now, in this specific instance, they do.
People lose nothing by donating their organs after death. It doesn't affect the person at all.
The Spoony Hou
Member
Yes I can. I'm sorry you can't. I suggest meditation.
And no, I don't think less of anybody for losing arms or legs. Those are mostly accessory anyway (by that I mean they aren't necessary for the body to maintain itself).
[QUOTE="D";188331272]I understand the altruistic reasoning behind donating organs, but why go in on people who are against it? If they don't want to donate then that's them[/QUOTE]
It's not even an altruistic reasoning, it's the logical reason. It has no impact on you as a person as you are dead, and it benefits your fellow human beings universally. You not donating has significantly more negative impact including the example I gave you of increasing black market demand that leads to stories about people being killed for their organs.
I am going into people who are against it, the same way I would go into people against any logical life-saving non-impact solution.
"I don't want people with AIDS being saved because it infringes on my religious beliefs" - Is this not shame worthy? If so, why is denying organ donation not shame worthy?
It's not even an altruistic reasoning, it's the logical reason. It has no impact on you as a person as you are dead, and it benefits your fellow human beings universally. You not donating has significantly more negative impact including the example I gave you of increasing black market demand that leads to stories about people being killed for their organs.
I am going into people who are against it, the same way I would go into people against any logical life-saving non-impact solution.
"I don't want people with AIDS being saved because it infringes on my religious beliefs" - Is this not shame worthy? If so, why is denying organ donation not shame worthy?
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I'm pretty sure only a few of our internal organs have pain receptors. So no amount of meditation is going to make you honestly feel them.
Chainsawkitten
Member
Zombies are a myth created by Big Cremation!
The Spoony Hou
Member
Edit: Sorry, that was assy of me.
Why are you using the term "religious belief" like it's a blanket to shield you from social shaming? It's not. If these are your religious beliefs, they come at the expense of others and I very much look down upon them.
The Spoony Hou
Member
Sigh, you know, you can feel more than pain. Life isn't only pain or no pain.
And stop looking down onto peole because they don't share your beliefs.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
No it's not my religious belief. I am areligious. If the belief that your organs can be felt is part of your religion though then so be it. I can't exactly argue against that belief. Until corrected by someone more educated though I'll continue to maintain what I was informed about in regards to many organs not having pain receptors.
you don't feel anything after death. When you die, that's it. There is nothing else. Your mortal body is a rotting meat at that point.
And your organs are going to be removed anyways when you die, before you are buried. This is part of the burial process. Your choice of organ donation is a choice between throwing your organs in the trash, or using them to save someone's life.
There's beliefs and there's scientific facts.
Do you respect those that don't believe in evolution?
If so, then it's a lost cause speaking to you for me as you are too indoctrinated.
The Spoony Hou
Member
Ok. Sorry by my earlier response, I'm fine that some organs might lack pain receptors. That's just not what I'm talking about. As I mentioned, life is more than pain or no pain.
BananaPancake
Member
The Spoony Hou
Member
I'm not perfect, I too have my intolerance. I have a little disrespect for people who don't believe in evolution, but it's mostly because in the US there's this bandwagon of people who feel they are more religious than others for denying it.
Saying there is nothing else could be seen as a religious belief. Nobody here knows that. I don't know that. I just want the most normal and complete death for me, just in case I'd be messing things up, let's put it that way. I think it barely makes a difference, though.
LaserBuddha
Member
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Weird opinion to have for someone who brings up meditation saying there's more to life than pain or no pain considering Buddhist, maybe the largest practitioners to meditation, where Buddha literally says his one objective is to teach that there is pain and then there is no pain.
DarkHeartedKill
Member
Ah, okay. Caught me a little off guard there. I still feel it's better to try and convince people WHY it's a good idea to donate their organs, rather than get them to just follow by fear of alienation.
I wouldn't say choosing not to donate an organ is really hating. Some of these like people not wanting strangers to have their organs, or fearing the person may be "bad" or misuse the organs sure. However, the ones that want to keep their body in tact(despite it rotting away anyways) aren't really hateful. Not to me anyways.
Yeah. I honestly did not expect some of the answers.
I haven't experienced anyone like Aiustis and Miles X in my real life. I honestly see real "darkness" in them.
Milksheikhs
Member
No one can say what comes after death one way or another as no one has come back from death (not talking about those people who were dead for like a few minutes).
The Spoony Hou
Member
I'm no Buddhist so I can't really comment on that. But it seems to me you're misinterpreting his quote.
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