[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.

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Miracle said:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=o2we_B6hDrY

Remember this? Do you think THIS is not overcoming the odds? Luke "using the force" to finding a hole he can't actually see with his eyes, without using the radar, makes a "perfect shot" to that hole and blowing up the entire Death Star while being able to escape a few tie fighters including one of them being flown by his father who is known to be a great pilot himself?

Luke overcame some bullshit as well you know. :P
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Luke is allowed to hit a skillshot right after Han Solo defeats Darth Vader.
 
pringles said:
Skilled with mechanical stuff = "magically knows"

They establish she's been living in broken down AT-AT and scavengening technical gadgets and repairing stuff.
Not a stretch she can fix an old spaceship, it's hardly state-of-the-art equipment.
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But doing it over and faster than Han Solo and Chewie...eh; that's sort of bullshit. She openly admits that she has no idea how to fly the Falcon when they start. But, space fantasy that has a crap-ton of plot to get through; so Mary Sue happens. Also, it's Abrams, who is sort of notorious for the "get to the badass main character" point from Alias to Star Trek and beyond. It's not a very big knock on Rey; with the realities of the trilogy (new writer for the next two movies, for instance); it's pretty hard not to go down that road. Especially because Disney wants to probably turn every bit of arc into books, tv shows, and more movies. Rey's probably my favorite character (followed closely by Finn, who has better characterization & development in the movie IMO).

MattyG said:
Wasn't the guy who owned it/the scrapyard who she was left with? I figured she knew how to fix it because it'd been in the scrapyard for a while and she'd been in there and knew about the ships there. Like, she obviously knew at least a bit about it because she said "it's garbage" and knew about part repairs/changes that had been made to it. It's not like that was her first time seeing the thing.
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They don't establish that in the books or the movie though; she stays away from it because it's sort of a running joke that the ship is terrible. Hence the plot point that she has no idea how to fly the Falcon.
 
LookAtMeGo said:
I can see him turning good and carrying on Han's name proudly. I dont think they want to wipe out Solos bloodline.

I hope not though. I want Kylo to be pure badness.
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Yeah, I don't think they'll kill him. Not every villain has to die, and I think it'd be way more interesting for him to either a) turn back to the light but always be tainted by what he's done, or b) be taken alive by the Resistance.

Cybit said:
They don't establish that in the books or the movie though; she stays away from it because it's sort of a running joke that the ship is terrible. Hence the plot point that she has no idea how to fly the Falcon.
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Well I haven't read any of the EU stuff involving her, but my assumption was that she'd been on it, tinkered with it and was aware of repairs made, but just hadn't flied it because of the whole "it's garbage" thing. But maybe she never had even been near it before, I don't know.
 
Ghostmaster said:
Ren is nowhere near as strong as Vader, come on guys.
Vader was the chosen one who was trained during the glory days of the jedi, he was probably even stronger than the emperor just not as cunning.

Ren is a petulant child who never completed his training and is still unsure of his goals.
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Vader was indeed stronger than Palpatine. He stayed loyal to Palpatine out of his desire to have a Master. It was one of the vestiges of Jedi training that remained with him even after he turned to the Darkside. That a person should always defer to someone who is wiser.
 
Why does it matter if she is mor powerful and learns quicker than Luke? At should her training and character arc (which we have seen 1/3) go same steps as Luke's?
 
If there were one or two things I'd change about this film, I probably would have had Finn get captured in the final act instead of Rey. The Stormtrooper with the electric sword on the planet knocks Finn out. Ren gets Finn (the traitor), Luke's lightsaber, and uses Finn as bait to lure Rey and the Resistance into a trap. Rey owns up to the visions she saw when she held Luke's saber and wants to rescue Finn, retrieve the saber, and blow the Starkiller sky high. Finn could still have "escaped" on his own and faced Phasma, maybe convinced her to join him. Han could have still made a comment about Finn's melee combat skills and still said he was basically a janitor and didn't get that kind of training. This is just me venting a bit about how I didn't like Rey instantly using Force powers and escaping her cell with the Jedi mind trick. They could have saved the "You don't need this ..." helmet reveal for Han/Ben on the catwalk.
 
rekameohs said:
How the hell is Rey a Mary Sue but Luke in Star Wars '77 isn't?
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Luke doesn't
-Fly the Millenium Falcon better than Han after less than 10 minutes
-Do Jedi mind tricks in ANH. He doesn't use the Force at all besides the training bot and the Death Star trench run in which he still needs a pep talk by Obi-Wan.
-Hell he doesn't even get into a lightsaber battle at all.

Compare that to Rey this film who outpowers Ren in the interrogation scene.
 
I imagine Rey's flaws will come out of the woodwork with VIII. Luke got his ass handed to him repeatedly in Empire, I imagine they'll raise the stakes even higher for Rey after her accomplishments. We also don't know much about Rey to fully judge her in the context of this universe (feel free to judge her in the context of this movie though, she just seems like a hardened Luke without the inherent destiny).
 
Fine Ham Abounds said:
I dunno though, the movie consistently makes it seem like she's innately more powerful than he is, maybe because her mind and conscience are clear, maybe becase of natural ability. I don't think it requires a suspension of disbelief greater than "she's stronger in the force, he's better trained but injured" to accept that fight. We have no idea how much training Kylo Ren has had, we have no idea where they are going with Rey necessarily.
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I think he had just enough training to be an intimidating and dangerous person around non-force users, but not enough to go up against another like him. IIRC they talk to Snookums or whatever his name is about how powerful she is from the interrogation encounter. Combined with his emotional state, his injuries, etc. it was a fair fight.

The film has problems but I really don't see how Rey's arc is one of them.
 
MMarston said:
Watch this happen in Episode 8.

Luke: "Your mother was etc etc"

Rey: "What about my father."

Luke: "You had no father."


did u rike it
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Clearly Luke running out on child support lowkey.

I see you as the daughter I never had. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 
Jarmel said:
Luke doesn't
-Fly the Millenium Falcon better than Han after less than 10 minutes
-Do Jedi mind tricks in ANH. He doesn't use the Force at all besides the training bot and the Death Star trench run in which he still needs a pep talk by Obi-Wan.
-Hell he doesn't even get into a lightsaber battle at all.

Compare that to Rey this film who outpowers Ren in the interrogation scene.
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.

Shit, Luke was still taking L's all the way into ROTJ.
 
I think Reys arc is going to be less of someone who has to overcome challenges/foes and more someone who has to decide which side of the force she falls on.
 
Ghostmaster said:
Ren is nowhere near as strong as Vader, come on guys.
Vader was the chosen one who was trained during the glory days of the jedi, he was probably even stronger than the emperor just not as cunning.

Ren is a petulant child who never completed his training and is still unsure of his goals.
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All the same he has trained with Saber, going back to with Luke apparently, and to have her step in and completely dominate him is just silly. When A New Hope came out, this chosen one nonsense didn't exist. He was just the leader of the Imperial Forces. The final defeat of Ren was just another in the line of her being the best, not the only thing.
 
Fine Ham Abounds said:
Rey comes across as less of a Mary Sue than Luke did in the OT, honestly.
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I disagree. Luke was never badass as she is at least in IV. She was good in everything in the TFA, fighting, piloting, using the force, making friends and people loving her.

The only thing they are at the same level is courage and benevolence.
 
soooo episode VIII will be two rocky like training montages and in ep IX we see the big showdown in which luke dies taking down snoke and Rey kills Ren?
 
Ken said:
Electric Mace Stormtrooper is the best character of the movie.
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I wonder if there's a back story to him. He goes on mission after mission waiting for someone to finally show up with a light saber.

He sees Finn and goes "OMG!! ITS HAPPENING!! YES!!! *turns on Electric Mace*
 
I'm pretty sure we'll see some weakness in Rey as we continue. She seems like the kind of person that could be incredibly closed off and independent to a fault. Her emotional trauma and her lack of family could actually push her to be very competent but also very isolated.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Snoke try to capitalize on that.
 
Sanjuro said:
Luke is allowed to hit a skillshot right after Han Solo defeats Darth Vader.
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Just like how Rey is allowed to defeat Ren right after Chewy used a powerful crossbow blaster on him after Ren killed his own father.

If anything, Ren should really be dead. That crossbow in the movie was displayed many times on how powerful it was. The fact that Ren was still able to even be standing and moving around much after it is almost a miracle (heh).
 
I think anyone expecting Kylo Ren to not turn to the light at some point are going to be as sadly disappointed as those expecting Rey to not be tempted by the dark side.

Luke will almost assuredly die, Finn may or who knows he might become a cyborg tempted by the dark side as well.
 
Jest Chillin said:
No. He says the size of the target is the same size as womp rats. He's not intimidated by the small target. Making the actual shot while speeding through a trench with TIE's shooting at you and blowing up your allies is nothing at all like shooting womp rats on Tatooine.
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Which is why he needed the Force to concentrate and guide the shot. It was a very natural extension of his past actions according to the film.
 
Cybit said:
Luke in '77 is something of one, but the Falcon scenes (where she magically knows how to fix everything) are what sort of push it over the edge in terms of Luke vs Rey. Some of the cuts hurt Rey though - they don't establish that she's any kind of pilot. But knowing how to magically repair the Falcon? <_< >_>
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She's a scavenger. She's been picking apart/putting things together probably for most of her life. It's not some stretch that she's knows the anatomy of a ship
 
The main reason Rey being powerful straight off doesn't bother me is because otherwise we'd just get the same character arc as Luke. Everyone is complaining about the movie being too similar to ANH, but her accelerated character arc allows the next movie to not follow the same trajectory as Luke's and have VIII just retread Empire.

Also, I'm still pretty sure there'll be a good explanation for it in VIII.
 
tattooed_dwarf said:
Why does it matter if she is mor powerful and learns quicker than Luke? At should her training and character arc (which we have seen 1/3) go same steps as Luke's?
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Because people always want things to make mathmatical sense. If A beats B and B beats C then A should beat C. That's a straight forward mathmatical logic.

The reality is often that that isn't the case. It's especially true of combat.


GhaleonEB said:
I think he had just enough training to be an intimidating and dangerous person around non-force users, but not enough to go up against another like him. IIRC they talk to Snookums or whatever his name is about how powerful she is from the interrogation encounter. Combined with his emotional state, his injuries, etc. it was a fair fight.

The film has problems but I really don't see how Rey's arc is one of them.
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Supreme Leader Snookums!
 
Fine Ham Abounds said:
I think anyone expecting Kylo Ren to not turn to the light at some point are going to be as sadly disappointed as those expecting Rey to not be tempted by the dark side.
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Kylo comes back to the light. Rey goes to the dark. Rey is better. Kylo goes back to the dark. Rey dabbled in the dark side, but never abandoned the resistance. Rey returns to the light. Still better. Rey wins.
 
Sanjuro said:
Luke is Lebron in Cleveland.
Rey is Steph Curry.
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This is hilarious and spot on

TheOctodad said:
I'm pretty sure we'll see some weakness in Rey as we continue. She seems like the kind of person that could be incredibly closed off and independent to a fault. Her emotional trauma and her lack of family could actually push her to be very competent but also very isolated.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Snoke try to capitalize on that.
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Wouldn't mind her conflict being flipping to the darkside if she really is this powerful already, would make Luke look like a really shit teacher though.

Branduil said:
Nor does she automatically succeed at everything, have the love of multiple characters, she's not perfect, etc.
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She's pretty much perfect so far in the trilogy, and while things may change in later episodes, as a standalone its not that satisfying.
 
Miracle said:
Just like how Rey is allowed to defeat Ren right after Chewy used a powerful crossbow blaster on him after Ren killed his own father.

If anything, Ren should really be dead. That crossbow in the movie was displayed many times on how powerful it was. The fact that Ren was still able to even be standing and moving around much after it is almost a miracle (heh).
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That's not really the point though. The comparison here is Luke in IV vs Rey in VII. Luke really wasn't anything extraordinary. Rey is shown numerous times having a far larger palette come to the surface.
 
Hey everyone, The Force Awakens audiobook is available at audible.com

It's 10+ hours long and contains material that is not in the film that is considered canon. Also, IT IS FREE if you sign up to audible.com for the first time. And I'm sure if you signed up in the past it's not hard to create a new account and get it for free anyways.

I'm definitely going to check this out when I get some time. For now, I'm off to my second screening of the film. Imax this time :)
 
I hope that Rey falls to the darkside, destroys every jedi, kills Kylo, kills Snooker, finds the true sith in the wastes of space, leads the sith to take control of the galaxy from the empire, teaches people to play 8 ball, and causes a new rise of light side force users to rise up with the sith as the major threat.
YOU COULD'VE GIVEN ME KOTOR 3. YOU COULD HAVE STOPPED THIS
 
GhaleonEB said:
I think he had just enough training to be an intimidating and dangerous person around non-force users, but not enough to go up against another like him. IIRC they talk to Snookums or whatever his name is about how powerful she is from the interrogation encounter. Combined with his emotional state, his injuries, etc. it was a fair fight.

The film has problems but I really don't see how Rey's arc is one of them.
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And I don't think Kylo was trying to kill Rey. Maybe he was but Snoke did tell him to bring the girl to him.
 
ren is going to go good after the knights of ren get bodied

a sith will get introduced at the end of VIII

and ren and rey will team up to fight them in IX
 
Tom Nook Sawyer said:
Overcame, being the operative word there.

There was never any doubt Rey would succeed any time she needed to.
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That's a fair point but the movie sort of sets this up as "the First Order ain't that hot after all and didn't know what hit them"

I just don't really see the problem with her engineering prowess or force powers as they are presented in the film. They are supported completely by context, imo.
 
Fine Ham Abounds said:
I think anyone expecting Kylo Ren to not turn to the light at some point are going to be as sadly disappointed as those expecting Rey to not be tempted by the dark side.
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After he talked about being seduced by the light, yeah I can see it happening. Actually would be funny if Rey and Ren switch places, and Rey becomes some badass darkside force user and Kylo returns to the light. I'd find it entertaining, but so many people wouldn't accept it lol.
 
TheOctodad said:
She's only throwaway if this didn't serve to establish her in the next few movies.
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If she shows up again it'll probably just be to dish out another garbage chute joke.

Like, the only reason Phazma even exists is so Finn could throw out that line about payback. Everything she actually does could have just been done by any no-name soldier.
 
Fine Ham Abounds said:
I think anyone expecting Kylo Ren to not turn to the light at some point are going to be as sadly disappointed as those expecting Rey to not be tempted by the dark side.
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I want to see them actually take it to the extremes instead. Rey becomes Yoda-esque in her affirmation of the Light side, and Ren goes full Palpatine and never looks back. The conflict would be less inward, retreading Luke and Vader, and more based on the people around them.
 
Jarmel said:
Which is why he needed the Force to concentrate and guide the shot. It was a very natural extension of his past actions according to the film.
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No. The implication given from Wedge is that Luke has always been an unnaturally good shot. Just as Anakin was unnaturally adept at fixing machinery and piloting. The Force manifests itself through exceptional ability in Force Sensitives even without them knowing they are Force Sensitive. It's how Jedi could identify candidates even as very very young children.

He didn't need The Force to concentrate. He needed to fully trust in the Force to make the shot at all. Hell even the way the shot is animated shows the thing change direction in mid-space to travel perfectly down the long narrow shaft and hit the core. It's a completely impossible shot to make from the angle they're taking down that trench.
 
Boke1879 said:
And I don't think Kylo was trying to kill Rey. Maybe he was but Snoke did tell him to bring the girl to him.
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did he not even tell her that he could teach her how to use the force? pretty shure that sentence fired back and she tried to concentrate on using the force in the fight.
 
foxtrot3d said:
You really gonna go that route? Rey IS the classic case of a Mary Sue, she has no flaws and is good at everything. She is the exact definition of the trope.
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image.php


Stay losing, Kylo.
 
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