[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.

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Dubbedinenglish said:
I don't think so. Kylo has the teetering on light/dark moment with Skele-Vader. The act perforationg Han completed turned him. He is beyond saving at this point. Killing Han feels like the unforgivable act.
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If people actually liked the prequels and the version of Obi-Wan presented in the prequels, then Vader would have been in the same boat in Episode IV-VI.
 
Jest Chillin said:
Yes. Thank you. I don't want anymore side switching or morally gray characters in my Star Wars films. I want classic Good vs classic Evil. Use those other techniques and character arcs for the other forms of media.
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I have no issue with morally gray in Star Wars (KOTOR 2 did this very well), but I feel like having Rey mildly flirt with the dark side before going back to the light as we all know she will is both predictable and just a repeat of what Luke already went through.

Same thing if Ren has some ultimate redemptive moment where he sees the error of his ways and turns to the light. If the writers want to truly give that Han Solo death scene weight, they'll mark it as a point of no return.
 
Superimposer said:
First post in this thread.

Did anyone else think Domnall Gleeson absolutely sucked? He's a fine actor but was totally miscast in that role. I visibly cringed every time he was on screen - he can't do intimidating general at all.
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I actually really liked him. I don't know anything else he's been in though, so it might've helped seeing him fresh.
 
Tom Nook Sawyer said:
I really was hoping they would just completely ignore the prequels
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Don't think they can. As this movie has shown, they'll at least be acknowledging it on a miniscule level.

Let's not forget there's actually a generation of fans that dug the prequels even with its flaws.
 
Dubbedinenglish said:
I don't think so. Kylo has the teetering on light/dark moment with Skele-Vader. The act perforationg Han completed turned him. He is beyond saving at this point. Killing Han feels like the unforgivable act.
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yeah i dont think my prediction is anywhere close to what will actually happen
 
LookAtMeGo said:
If Rey really is the new Luke, I can see her getting bested at some point. Luke was pretty flawless until Vader humbled him. Rey will have her comeuppance for being too sure of herself at some point I'm sure.
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Based on the film, it could still be Finn realistically. There is enough to suggest Rey doesn't want to use/obtain these powers outside of what she believes is necessary.
 
LookAtMeGo said:
If Rey really is the new Luke, I can see her getting bested at some point. Luke was pretty flawless until Vader humbled him. Rey will have her comeuppance for being too sure of herself at some point I'm sure.
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Who's out there to best her?

Other than Kylo and Snoke, you don't really have dark side force users running amok through the galaxy
 
foxtrot3d said:
1. Stop, it doesn't matter what you call it "The Force" isn't real, this is a movie, so whatever fictional explanation is behind her being great at everything doesn't change the fact that she is a Mary Sue.

2. Are you actually bringing up PT Anakin? Yes, he was a Mary Sue in TPM and a terrible character.
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Kylo is basically just a better acted version of PT Anakin. They are both whiny over confident angry brats.
 
Maybe Rey will finally be the first jedi in the films to be neither dark or light. Form the Gray Jedi Order to put both ideologues in place.
 
OricWindstar said:
Holy shit. This is probably been discussed, but apparently Ewan McGregor provided Obi-Wan's voice for Rey's Force Vision. That's awesome.

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Oh, that's awesome. Sounded like it was ripped from Alec's dialogue.

jett said:
He must be trolling. I mean, what? Why would Obi-Wan be speaking to Rey?
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You can definitely hear Obi-Wan say "Rey" in the vision. Originally I thought it was Alec Guinness.
 
Looking at IMDb to see if Ewan McGregor is listed (would most likely be in the uncredited section like Daniel Craig is), I noticed that Michael Giacchino is in the movie. He plays (or at least, voices) on of the Storm Troopers.
 
I just got back from my second viewing and it held up for me. It's still just as fun the second go around. Rey is so damn adorable in that scene where she puts on the Rebel helmet, I can't help but smile during that bit.

I find it odd that Han and Leia don't know who Rey is.I would assume if Luke had a daughter they'd know about her and Leia would be able to feel the connection with her through the Force. Han I can understand not knowing, he probably hadn't seen her since she was ~6 and Rey might not be her real name.

Also, for anyone who was on earlier when we talked about the odd sequence of events that came from Poe getting thrown clear of the TIE Fighter yet somehow his jacket stayed behind - Poe is taking off his jacket as he is getting settled into the TIE Fighter. I completely missed it the first time around and I'm guessing other people did too.
 
foxtrot3d said:
No, this is a movie and I have to judge it on an individual movie basis. Her character in this movie is not very good.
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She has fears (not wanting to take the saber and her early pull to return to Jakku) and is bested/screws up on occasion (releasing the Rathtars and Kylo confronting her in the forest for the first time). I agree, I wouldn't have minded her struggling more with her force powers or being helped a bit more by Finn, but she's certainly not boring and I wouldn't call her a Mary Sue.

foxtrot3d said:
Kylo Ren is Anakin done right.
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100% agree on this.
 
Jest Chillin said:
No. The implication given from Wedge is that Luke has always been an unnaturally good shot. Just as Anakin was unnaturally adept at fixing machinery and piloting. The Force manifests itself through exceptional ability in Force Sensitives even without them knowing they are Force Sensitive. It's how Jedi could identify candidates even as very very young children.

He didn't need The Force to concentrate. He needed to fully trust in the Force to make the shot at all. Hell even the way the shot is animated shows the thing change direction in mid-space to travel perfectly down the long narrow shaft and hit the core. It's a completely impossible shot to make from the angle they're taking down that trench.
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Yes the Force is seemingly used unconsciously however the assumption in the film wasn't that Luke was some insanely good shot but rather the target was doable which is why they all calm down.

You're also the first person I've ever heard to insinuate that Luke changed the directions of the missiles midair to go down the shaft.
 
JJDubz said:
Maybe Rey will finally be the first jedi in the films to be neither dark or light. Form the Gray Jedi Order to put both ideologues in place.
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That's something you're more likely to see in a KOTOR game or something. This is a Star Wars movie, it has as much depth as 09 Trek.
 
BravesCountry said:
"remotely competent and self-reliant" is purposely underselling her exceptional abilities to try and paint users here as sexist.
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If that was too subtle I'll outright declare that these calls of Mary Sue to be sexist, as they commonly are in male-dominated fandoms. She gets the Mary Sue title, meanwhile people are crying over how Kylo Ren wasn't the super cool guy they imagined and no one blinks as Poe becoming a top ace in a single long shot. (Not that I'm saying Poe is a Gary Sue, but it's on the same level of Rey's accomplishments but she's the one who gets stuck with the title)
 
diaspora said:
That's something you're more likely to see in a KOTOR game or something. This is a Star Wars movie, it has as much depth as 09 Trek.
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Oh, I totally know that it's wishful thinking.
All of my hopes for the new series were tied to KOTOR pretty heavily. I completely understand that they won't happen lol.
 
Zeliard said:
I have no issue with morally gray in Star Wars (KOTOR 2 did this very well), but I feel like having Rey mildly flirt with the dark side before going back to the light as we all know she will is both predictable and just a repeat of what Luke already went through.

Same thing if Ren has some ultimate redemptive moment where he sees the error of his ways and turns to the light. If the writers want to truly give that Han Solo death scene weight, they'll mark it as a point of no return.
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I don't have a problem with it in Star Wars in generally but I don't want it in the main films specifically. Books? TV Shows? Games? Comics/Graphic Novels? Side story Films? If it suits the character then go for it. But I love the OT for generally being Good Guy vs. Bad Guy with Good ultimately succeeding having never actually flipped to being bad. Moral gray, different flavors of asshole, etc.. are great for certain things. I just don't want it for the mainline films.
 
OricWindstar said:
She has fears (not wanting to take the saber and her early pull to return to Jakku) ands bested/screws up on occasion (releasing the Rathtars and Kylo confronting her in the forest for the first time). I agree, I wouldn't have minded her struggling more with her force powers or being helped a bit more by Finn, but she's certainly not boring and I wouldn't call her a Mary Sue.

100% agree on this.
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Releasing the Rathars worked for her and she beat Ren soon after.
 
PBalfredo said:
If that was too subtle I'll outright declare that these calls of Mary Sue to be sexist, as they commonly are in male-dominated fandoms. Meanwhile people are crying over how Kylo Ren wasn't the super cool guy they imagined and no one blinks as Poe becoming a top ace in a single long shot.
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Probably best not to paint an entire group of people as sexist based on a single argument.

I have no idea if it's the same people, but many have also complained about how underutilized and poorly portrayed Phasma seemed to be, and hoped the movie would make better use of her
 
If the hands aren't flying in the next movie I'm gonna be pissed. Kylo, Rey, Fin, 3PO, JJ Abrams. Errbody need to get dehanded to save the trilogy.
 
Years ago I read some well-written fan piece about how Luke is so wise and unlike any other Jedi because he is the first to realize that you can't completely throw away these other emotions that Jedi purport to be "dark". It was an interesting read, and I can't find it anywhere. Anyone have a clue what I'm talking about?
 
diaspora said:
That's something you're more likely to see in a KOTOR game or something. This is a Star Wars movie, it has as much depth as 09 Trek.
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Qui-Gon was greyish.

Hell Dooku was too (even though the movie just portrayed him as hahahhahahhah Saturday Morning cartoon evil)


But I wouldn't put it past Rian Johnson to delve deeper into the Force than just the rigid binary constucts of Jedi-Sith/Light-Dark.
 
Rey is hardly flawless or perfect. Throughout much of the movie she's delusional, makes poor judgment calls (thinking Finn is a thief), and is too scared to act when destiny comes knocking.

A lot of this "Rey is a Sue!" stuff feels like people complaining about stuff that's new or different. I thought the film did a much better job establishing her desires/wants with just that one scene of her cleaning parts next to an older woman doing the same (who'd probably been doing that for her entire life), than Luke whining for twenty minutes in ANH about Tosche Station or whatever.
 
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