They activated every death flag. Son being told to "take care" of his father to complete his training. Surrogate daughter being asked to become part of his family. Wife asking him to save their son from himself. One of them would have been enough to give you reason to think that he'll die. All three and they're straight up beating you over the head with it.
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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NekoFever
Member
I'm pretty sure his species isn't canon anymore. He was a Munn in the old EU.
blackdevil
Member
damn. DetectiveGAF at it again. nice find!
They are extremely similar wow
I got the impression he was like a mall ninja with an Ar-15.
He had probably mowed down some scrubs with it but never actually faced an equal foe with a lightsaber.
He really gave off a "columbine shooter" vibe to me... Which is why I think I didn't really like him. It's kind of interesting they went this way - currently a real fear in the USA vs. fascists taking over. And if he does end up slaughtering students (or already did it) like his old grandpa Vader it actually fits.
Yup. right now I can't use that as a complaint because there are still 2 more movies and we'll no doubt get a shit ton of backstory/exposition in the 2nd one. This movie did great in letting us know what everyone has been up to while establishing new characters.
One question. Did the FO wipe out the new republic?
LegalEagleMike
Member
species isnt canon anymore, only the name is.
slightconfuse
Banned
Yea also loved Lukes new look.
brandonh83
Banned
Rey's theme and the last track make the entire soundtrack for me.
VistraNorrez
Member
I have no problems with Rey fighting Kylo. But it's not comparable to Luke and the remote. Obi-wan is training him in an incredibly relaxed environment. He tells Luke that it "obeys your commands". And we know Luke is the son of a Jedi. And going by Star Wars canon, remotes are very basic lightsaber training. It's an entirely different situation.
Jacksinthe
Banned
That's because in this film they are actively trying to kill each other, not stand several feet apart to clash sabers because twirly whirly spinny flashy stuff. Kylo wasted no time with Finn but actively tried to engage Rey in a more beat-down manner to try and persuade her to come to his side until she reached deep.
I think Kylo in the next films will be far more evil and direct. I don't believe he can be turned back.
Hmm, good post. I can see where you are coming from, and 'maybe' buy that.
The only thing I keep coming back to is traditionally these skills were trained and that's what we've pretty much always seen.
Rey could be different, but I hope Episode 8 shows that Luke did in fact work with her at an early age.
Dammit! Haha, got me- don't know how I forgot about that.
Yeah, I see your argument here, but:
A) The Force was introduced originally as an intuitive and inherent thing
B) only the prequels showed Jedi Training classes like you're describing, and that was during the Jedi golden age when they had too many Jedi kids to handle
C) the film is called The Force Awakens and is focused on one (clearly prodigal) new Jedi who is just discovering her abilities. I think it's safe to say she may be one of the most, if not the most, powerful Jedi in the whole series. I think that's the point and Luke can clearly tell when she confronts him at the end. Rey is 'the Force awakened'.
This is besides the evidence the other guy said, Luke's actions and stuff
blackdevil
Member
the woman behind me told her child " naaah, that cant be Luke, he doesnt look like that"
i wanted to jedi mind-slap her :/ !!
Hmm, good post. I can see where you are coming from, and 'maybe' buy that.
The only thing I keep coming back to is traditionally these skills were trained and that's what we've pretty much always seen.
Rey could be different, but I hope Episode 8 shows that Luke did in fact work with her at an early age.
Dammit! Haha, got me
I think it's more likely that Rey was a part of the new generation of Jedi that Luke was raising and that the reason the light saber spoke to her and she had that vision was because she was meant to come back to it. Also R2 would not wake up until Rey was on the planet, which to me gives another clue.
The Knights of the Ren from what we know are nothing more than some kids or teenagers Luke trained, either that or some First order soldiers. But I have no idea why you see Rey being trained as a stretch, when she's been fending for herself her entire life, on top of which she is clearly far more force sensitive than Kylo.
We get the impression Kylo has strong force abilities when calm, but nothing indicates that he is highly skilled. His combat skills are heavy handed and unrefined, his lightsaber design and build inefficient, his emotional antics unstable, his training incomplete, that he's young, inexperienced, highly volatile and fearful of not living up to reputations.
Add to that, we also know he's not properly respected even by his peers, with General Hux not only not being fearful of him, but downright contemptuous towards him.
There is nothing in the movie that gives the notion that Kylo is unstoppable and Rey is some weak feeble thing simply because she's a female. In fact the foreshadowing is of the opposite.
Robot Pants
Member
Also the remote isn't another powerful Jedi who has sky walker blood in him and was trained by Luke, and can stop laser blasts dead in their tracks, and
The fight in the woods wasn't what I would call him "fucking badass" or "super powerful" in. From what I remember, his moves clearly lacked the elegance and confidence the better jedi/sith had in the trilogies. He was kinda janky and the only place where he really gave the vibe that he could really be powerful was that Jakku village in the beginning.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Yeah. So now I'm having fun trying to figure out how he lived. If Jedi who are pure in the force can come back as apparitions or whatever, what is the dark side equivalent? The dark side abuses the force in unnatural ways, so did Plagueis really learn how to avoid death on the other end of the spectrum? But if he did come back, I doubt he'd come back with a screwed up, scarred face. I'm going to keep my money bet on that huge, jagged scar on the top of his head his a gift from Palpatine trying to kill him in his sleep. But what the heck would you do to someone to cause that scar?
Ether_Snake
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I doubt the knights of Ren are former jedis trainees. Probably First Order folks that were made to hunt down the jedis Luke trained, either before Kylo joined them or soon after he joined the order.
I really hope Kylo stays evil. a redemption arc for him would feel wrong after he did this big step of killing his own father.
also he actively fights the light side. He knows about vaders story but still decided he wants to be evil.
I honestly think he believes he was seduced by the light side and chose the dark side from his free will.
that was me
! here -> http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=189917504&postcount=17217 ^_^ thanks <3
also he actively fights the light side. He knows about vaders story but still decided he wants to be evil.
I honestly think he believes he was seduced by the light side and chose the dark side from his free will.
that was me
! here -> http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=189917504&postcount=17217 ^_^ thanks <3Future PhaZe
Member
I mentioned it before--but if Plageuis is the first force user to be able to put a dark side spin on becoming a force ghost--then it's possible he's learned how to essentially reincarnate himself--either by possession, birth, anything. It could have taken all of these years to figure out how to go from a force ghost to a living person again. And it would explain him not being a Munn currently, as well as being alive of course.
It aint Sheev if it aint Ian McD doing it
Oni Link 666
Member
Yeah, there's definitely a story behind that scar. It looks like a fatal wound. I was thinking maybe someone stabbed him in the head with a lightsabre.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Yup. Kylo is the only one among them who has a lightsaber.
I can't wait for Episode VIII:
Vincent Alexander
Member
Agreed. I'll be pissed if they do a redemption arc with him also. What I'm the most eager to learn is what exactly could've turned him to the dark side in the first place.I really hope Kylo stays evil. a redemption arc for him would feel wrong after he did this big step of killing his own father.
also he actively fights the light side. He knows about vaders story but still decided he wants to be evil.
I honestly think he believes he was seduced by the light side and chose the dark side from his free will.
that was me
Good thing I didn't try and claim it was myself for all the glory . . . I was thinking about it though!I really hope Kylo stays evil. a redemption arc for him would feel wrong after he did this big step of killing his own father.
also he actively fights the light side. He knows about vaders story but still decided he wants to be evil.
I honestly think he believes he was seduced by the light side and chose the dark side from his free will.
that was me
Bobby Roberts
Banned
That music from Revenge of the Sith isn't "Plagueis' Theme" though. It's actually diegetic music - it's what the OPERA they're at is doing. The opera isn't the story of Darth Plagueis, I don't believe. Palpatine tells the story of the Plagueis at the Opera, yeah, but that's not the point of the Opera, and that music isn't tied to the story Palpatine is telling.
It's like saying the Cantina Band is playing Han Solo's theme.
That Snoke's theme sounds similar to the music in that opera could maybe be a sign of something, sure. Or it could be like other similar cues/beats in the soundtrack (there are more than a few moments in this soundtrack that feel very much like stuff already heard in Revenge of the Sith) - they're similar for the fact it's the same guy writing the music and this is probably, aside from two or three cues, the most uninspiring Star Wars score ever done.
It's like saying the Cantina Band is playing Han Solo's theme.
That Snoke's theme sounds similar to the music in that opera could maybe be a sign of something, sure. Or it could be like other similar cues/beats in the soundtrack (there are more than a few moments in this soundtrack that feel very much like stuff already heard in Revenge of the Sith) - they're similar for the fact it's the same guy writing the music and this is probably, aside from two or three cues, the most uninspiring Star Wars score ever done.
WadiumArcadium
Member
I'd have thought Han would have said several Jedi in Luke's academy went bad if they were former Jedi. Instead he just says one.
For a film that doesn't reference the prequels a lot, going back to Plageuis would be a bit odd to me. Especially seeing he isn't something a lot of casual Star Wars fans are going to remember.
Ether_Snake
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Han and Leia talk about Snoke like they personally knew him. If that's the case, he might have first presented himself as a good guy, and fought with Luke at some point later when he got Kylo.
MiamiWesker
Member
So how will the next movie start, this is the first time we are left with a movie ending in the middle of a scene. Dont you want to see what Luke says at that moment. If so then how the hell will an opening crawl work? Every Star Wars movie is years apart, so will they just skip a year later with Luke and Rey master and apprentice?
Quite a mess they have there.
Quite a mess they have there.
I thought the ending was great. It perfectly, _perfectly_ set up the key progressions of the second/eighth film.
However, the helicopter shot definitely diluted the effect. It should have ended on the close ups, and quite quickly.
Thanks. I read this crazy theory that he could be her father like wtf?
yeah it is the background music while he tells the story of plagueis IIRC. I am not saying he is it. but speculation is fun ^_^/
yeah you are probably jedi material
Fata1moose
Banned
Yup, seems like Ren killed all of the other trainees.
FUBAR McDangles
Member
It was a conscious decsion by Lucasfilm to have the final fight only TIE fighters vs X-Wings. They said the final fight in ROTJ was too confusing due to how many different type of ships there were.
blackdevil
Member
Yup. Kylo is the only one among them who has a lightsaber.
I can't wait for Episode VIII:
he looks fantastic. Hope he gets many movieroles now if he wants that is. Also great inspiration for people with weight problems. He looks 10-15 years younger and super healthy compared to 2012 Mark Hamill. Good for him.
Ether_Snake
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Yeah I said the same earlier. We won't see what Luke says, we won't see him reunite with Chewie and R2 and the Falcon, etc. Kind of sad that the first time we finally see Luke, we don't hear him speak and instead get a time skip.
Unless they start the next one straight where we left off, that would be a first and the text crawl would have to be a recap, or about what Luke had been doing prior to TFA.
Future PhaZe
Member
the immaculate conception of the skywalker line could have literally been Plageuis reaching out from the dead to fuck over both Palpatine and the Jedi both
the realization of something like that could have been enough to turn Ben dark and mindfuck Luke into exile
the realization of something like that could have been enough to turn Ben dark and mindfuck Luke into exile
Vincent Alexander
Member
Interesting....so I looked into it a bit more and the piece that plays is officially named Palpatine's Teachings. So yeah, not Plagueis theme. Buuut....I'm going to put my money in the bucket that Williams scoring both the way he did and the manner in which they were used can't be a coincidence. At least I hope. I kind of like the idea of Snoke being Plagueis.
The question would be "What the hell was Plagueis up to?" in the originals. I'd be pissed if it was some stupid puppet master story....he was behind the scenes the whole time. What I would LOVE is if he was truly afraid of Palpatine, so he stayed hidden until he died.
Did he do it alone? I remember seeing other (possible) Knights of Ren in that scene.
Boooo. That's bunk. Who the hell is looking at a TIE Interceptor and asking themselves "Is that a rebel ship?"
This is way too much afterthought retconning to be worth any good. It would be a disservice to the OT even beyond what the prequels did.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Alright something doesn't compute here.
Rogue One a year from now. Then episode 8 at like the end of May?
I really don't see that happening. Rogue One will only be a couple months out of theaters. What about trailers? They showed TFA trailer over a year before it came out. While it doesn't have to be that long this time, I don't see any way that we wouldn't have Rogue One and episode VIII trailers playing at the same time. Which will confuse the hell out of casuals.
Do we expect that release date to be pushed back? That would suck.
Rogue One a year from now. Then episode 8 at like the end of May?
I really don't see that happening. Rogue One will only be a couple months out of theaters. What about trailers? They showed TFA trailer over a year before it came out. While it doesn't have to be that long this time, I don't see any way that we wouldn't have Rogue One and episode VIII trailers playing at the same time. Which will confuse the hell out of casuals.
Do we expect that release date to be pushed back? That would suck.
The opera scene was scored specifically for that exchange between Sheev and Anakin, in-universe or not. I'm pretty sure men's choir = Sith in William's mind.
That wasn't the case in least a lot of the prequel fights?
Much of the prequel fights still are quite bleh to look at regardless.Ether_Snake
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He didn't do it alone, but what's weird is it looks like someone tries to kill Rey with a stick but that person gets killed by Kylo. Unless like some others said the person was trying to tell her to run, but it really didn't look like it.
That's what I've been saying. People are just seeing what they want to see.
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