[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up

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1. How Finn didn't get utterly wrecked when fighting Kylo within 2 seconds
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Well for one thing, he's not in the right state of mind considering he just killed his dad. Secondly, he was shot by Chewie, and we know that crossbow laser packs a punch.

How someone with newly found Force powers could beat a guy with supposed Jedi training
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The above, plus he was additionally wounded by Finn. He's bleeding, a little burnt, emotionally wrecked and it's cold outside. :P
 
Korey said:
No, he was miscast.

It's like if he took off his mask and it was Michael Cera with black hair. Same thing. Totally took me out of the movie and a lot of people I talked to felt the same.

Dude looks like Andy Samberg.
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Right he wasn't menacing at all he looked like a puddin mouth boy who had daddy issues.
 
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku! said:
When the fire the starkiller the first time, why is the sun out? I thought it drained the sun and when it got completely dark, they fired.
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Because Starkiller base is an incoherent concept. Did it eat half the star on the first shot and half on the second? Did it start in a binary star system? How does it eat an entire star in fifteen minutes. Why even say "fifteen minutes" out loud. Nobody knows.
 
Phasma is a case of them creating a character they really gave no thought too. Was going to be a random male character originally after all. Then they changed it to female.market testing found people said wow holy shit chrome trooper is awesome but by that point movie was likely past point they could do anything.
 
I'm rusty on my star wars EU lore but wasent luke's son named Ben in the EU, do you guys think this was intentional?
 
Occam said:
Your memory must work like Lukas' then.

"1 - Age of the Republic. ANH: "A thousand generations" vs. AOTC: "a thousand years"

2 - AOTC/ROTS: All stormtroopers are clones of Jango Fett. OT: they have different heights and different voices... none of them sound like Temura Morrison.

3 - Size of the Clone Army. AOTC: States 1.2 million "units." By the OT, how can there be enough Stormtroopers to patrol the Galaxy if it takes 10 years to grow them and they age at 2x the normal rate?

4 - How can Leia remember her real mother (ROTJ), if not only was she born AFTER her twin Luke (ROTS), but Padme died in childbirth?

5 - When did Obi-Wan Kenobi serve Bail Organa during the Clone Wars? (ANH)

6 - Design of the Tantive IV (name not stated in movie, but Captain Antilles's ship), how does it change so radically in 20 years? (ROTS vs. ANH)

7 - Why doesn't R2D2 remember the past 20 years?

8 - Why did Ben Kenobi forget about Leia (ESB vs. ROTS)?

9 - When did Anakin demonstrate that he was "already a great pilot" when Obi-Wan "first knew him"? (ROTJ vs. TPM)

10 - When did Owen show any disagreement with Anakin, to the extent described by Obi-Wan? (ANH vs. AOTC/ROTS)

11 - Why does Yoda say that Jedi never use the Force for attack, but only 'knowledge and defense', and why does he disparage war/warriors? (ESB vs. AOTC/ROTS)

12 - Why was Luke "hidden" on Anakin's home planet, at the homestead of the family his mother married into and his last name not changed? (ROTS vs. ANH)

13 - Why doesn't Chewie react to Han Solo's bad-mouthing of the Jedi and the Force? (ANH vs. ROTS)

14 - Why doesn't R2D2 ever use his rocket boosters again? (AOTC/ROTS)

15 - Why did the first Death Star take twenty years to build, while the second, larger and more powerful station, was built in 1-3 years? (ROTS vs. ROTJ)

16 - When was it shown that Anakin was a "good man" and a "good friend" before he turned to the Dark Side? (ROTS vs. ANH/ROTJ)

17 - Why did Obi-Wan refer to Yoda as "The Jedi Master who instructed me" when he was instructed by Qui Gon Jinn? (TPM vs. ESB)

18 - Why does Yoda moan about Luke being "too old to begin the training" when Obi-Wan had no problem with it, and supposedly Yoda thought 9 year old Anakin was "too old"? (TPM vs. ANH/ESB)

19 - What happened to Jar Jar Binks?

20 - (Special Editions) Why does anyone on Tatooine care when the Empire falls?

21 - Why does Obi-Wan wear his Jedi uniform "in hiding" on Tatooine? (ANH vs. TPM/AOTC/ROTS)

22 - What happened to all the battle droids?

23 - Why isn't Luke able to stop the Emperor's lightning attack and why doesn't Yoda at least show him how to counter it? (ROTJ vs. AOTC/ROTS)

24 - If there are only always ever two Sith "no more, no less... a master and an apprentice" (TPM) why does Vader recommend that Luke could be turned into a "powerful ally" and the Emperor agrees he would be a "great asset"? (TPM vs. ESB)

25 - Why do Obi-Wan, Anakin, Owen and Beru appear so old if only 18-20 years have past since we last saw them? (ANH/ROTJ vs. ROTS)

26 - Why doesn't Admiral Motti seem aware of the reality of the Force and the power of those who wield it? (PT vs. ANH)

27 - What happened to the Imperial military in those two decades that they lost nearly all their hardware and technology? (ROTS vs. OT)

28 - Why doesn't Obi-Wan recognize the droids? (ANH vs. PT)

29 - Why doesn't Owen Lars recognize the droids? (ANH vs. AOTC)

30 - Why don't Luke or Leia ever find out that R2D2 knows everything about their past?

31 - Why doesn't Qui Gon Jinn appear as a spirit at the end of ROTJ? (see AOTC/ROTS)

32 - If one has to be "trained" to become a spirit after death, when did Anakin ever learn it? (ROTS vs. ROTJ)

33 - When did Anakin express the desire for his son to have his lightsaber when he was "old enough" (and if the Jedi are trained from birth, does that mean as a toddler? but since the Jedi aren't allowed to have children... then what?)?

34 - How many Wars were there? Why does Yoda refer to it as "the Clone War" instead of the "Clone WarS" (plural)? (AOTC vs. ANH)

35 - Why does Ben refer to Vader as "Darth" if that is a Sith title rather than a personal name? (see ANH)

36 - Was Vader really "but the learner" when he "left" Obi-Wan? (ANH vs. ROTS)

37 - Did Obi-Wan really stop going by that name (and start going by the name "Ben") "before" Luke was born? (ANH vs. ROTS)"
Source: http://www.chefelf.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6454
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None of those are retcons. Most of them are unexplained stuff, or simply characters lying/making stuff up/feigning ignorance.
 
Brakke said:
Because Starkiller base is an incoherent concept. Did it eat half the star on the first shot and half on the second? Did it start in a binary star system? How does it eat an entire star in fifteen minutes. Why even say "fifteen minutes" out loud. Nobody knows.
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It's funny how they have a unit of time like parsecs but then they say a human term like minutes
 
Its funny when people say these characters haven't been doing anything for 30 years.
You can spot the millenials in the thread. Most people get a job and stick with it until retirement. Maybe a few promotions here and there, but it doesn't matter if you're in the army or an office, providing you don't get made redundant..you stick with that job right through.
Leia has been leading an Army and Han has been smuggling. That's their roles in life.
They're not gonna drop that for a gap year to Thailand to "discover" themselves like a millennial would.
 
egruntz said:
What was with Kylo pounding his chest like a gorilla btw?
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He'd been shot in the side by Chewie. He was punching the wound to use the pain to fuel his dark side power.

Here's a question: how the hell did people on Takodana see the destruction of the Hosnian system half way across the galaxy in real time?
 
Gravidee said:
Well for one thing, he's not in the right state of mind considering he just killed his dad. Secondly, he was shot by Chewie, and we know that crossbow laser packs a punch.

The above, plus he was additionally wounded by Finn. He's bleeding, a little burnt, emotionally wrecked and it's cold outside. :P
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Yeah, aside from his wound from the gun that blew up 3 soldiers in one shot, I think the main thing is he killed his dad and it didn't resolve things like he thought it would. You even see this sudden look on his face when Han would have hit the ground, like a real gut punch before the literal gut shot from the gun. Using the force requires focus, and his had to be all fucked up by then from the feeling of killing his dad. It's similar to how Vader became a big softy trying to win Luke over to his side rather than killing him.

Klyka said:
Btw, I didn't mind the 3D much and thought it was barely noticeable but one scene stood out to me completely and I wonder if anyone else saw it like I did:

The scene where it shows the First Order Star Destroyer straight from the front.
It was like it was fully hovering in the theater room, I swear for a second I had to stop myself from lifting my hand and trying to grab the front tip.
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lol I agree that one shot went waaaaay too hard
 
Korey said:
No, he was miscast.

It's like if he took off his mask and it was Michael Cera with black hair. Same thing. Totally took me out of the movie and a lot of people I talked to felt the same.

Dude looks like Andy Samberg.
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The entire point of Kylo Ren is that his "Dark Lord" thing is a farce he is trying to live SO DESPERATELY.

He is a young man trying to fill the way too big and misguided footsteps of his famous grandfather who was known throughout the galaxy. He is being manipulated. He has done things that of unspeakable evil and is still trying to justify all of this to himself.

He is a broken, lonely young man who is desperately trying to show everyone else but most importantly himself that the life he "chose for himself" is the correct way and they should all be in awe of him.

Kylo Ren is the mask.

Ben Solo, the broken,young, geeky looking guy who needs to get more fresh air and a proper haircut, is the real person.
 
sn00zer said:
Really? I thought it was scarier that he just a guy. Not some sort of deformed scary looking creature as siths tend to be. Its easier to think that "oh some scarred up freak or red eyed monster guy is a bad guy", but him just being a normal looking person hits that nerve of the darkside can get to anyone.
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That's what I think. Him looking how he did was a bit unsettling and gave me the idea that he was really messed up in a certain type of way.

And it (along with some other things) deviated him a bit from just being Darth Vader clone.
 
Confused about something, maybe I missed the explanation.

Starkiller Base sucks up the nearby sun to fire its laser thing, right?

Sooo, how did it "reload" after already firing once? Is the planet-base mobile? Was it a binary system?
 
IdreamofHIME said:
Its funny when people say these characters haven't been doing anything for 30 years.
You can spot the millenials in the thread. Most people get a job and stick with it until retirement. Maybe a few promotions here and there, but it doesn't matter if you're in the army or an office, providing you don't get made redundant..you stick with that job right through.
Leia has been leading an Army and Han has been smuggling. That's their roles in life.
They're not gonna drop that for a gap year to Thailand to "discover" themselves like a millennial would.
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What the what? Jesus.
 
Kylo Ren with the mask is menacing.
Kylo Ren without the mask is a creepy little shit.

That's kind of the point. He's fucking fronting. Klyka's got it pretty cleanly.

I love him as metatextual commentary on shitty Star Wars fans, too.
 
I always find you folks that didn't like Kylo without the mask interesting. I completely felt the opposite. The instant his helmet came off I loved his character. Before that moment the Han and Leia has a son thing felt really awkward.

Not saying it's bad people feel that way. Just interesting how there seems to be two completely polarized viewpoints on it.
 
Brakke said:
Because Starkiller base is an incoherent concept. Did it eat half the star on the first shot and half on the second? Did it start in a binary star system? How does it eat an entire star in fifteen minutes. Why even say "fifteen minutes" out loud. Nobody knows.
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Starkiler wasent charging for 15 mins, it was already charging, they just had about 15 mind left
egruntz said:
What was with Kylo pounding his chest like a gorilla btw?
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H was injured from chewie which is why he was crappy in the fight with 2 people with no lightsaber experience
 
RyanardoDaVinci said:
Confused about something, maybe I missed the explanation.

Starkiller Base sucks up the nearby sun to fire its laser thing, right?

Sooo, how did it "reload" after already firing once? Is the planet-base mobile? Was it a binary system?
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It was sucking out the suns energy while the heroes were doing their thing. It's why it got dark right before Kylo killed Han.
 
Finally got to watching this and spoiler free too so I was able to enjoy this film to the max and oh boy did I enjoy the fuck out of it.

The film was more comedic than I thought it would be but despite that I really did enjoy it. I'm in love with Rey; her and BB8 definitely did the most carrying of the movie for me.

As for similarities to ANH, I definitely recognized alot but they didn't detract me from the movie experience. I still got alot of feels from a "safe" movie, looking forward to sequels who now have the opportunity to create their own original plots and whatnot.
 
I found having more "acting" coming from people in stormtrooper armour just made it look super impractical and goofy. It was the same in the original trilogy but it was highlighted more here
 
Brakke said:
Because Starkiller base is an incoherent concept. Did it eat half the star on the first shot and half on the second? Did it start in a binary star system? How does it eat an entire star in fifteen minutes. Why even say "fifteen minutes" out loud. Nobody knows.
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I thought it could move. Like it would eat a sun and then move to the next sun. Of course, I'm not sure how the ecosystem would stay the same if they did that. You are correct, it makes no sense.
 
Btw,I LOVED a lot of the cinematography in the movie.

My absolute favorite must be Han and Kylo on the bridge, with the door that Finn and Rey come through shining a "spotlight" on both of them, then the sun going dark and only a red light is left on Kylo's face right before he stabs Han.
 
bananafactory said:
I don't understand why every thing that happens in a movie needs someone to explain or show to the audience how it happened.

My impression was that Han has been hanging out around there running jobs and the only reason he didn't pick up the Falcon sooner is because it was dormant (Rey even says it hasn't flown in years). As soon as the ship fired up he probably got it on his tracker. It's not a hard leap to make, they don't need to waste screentime on that
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Just a pet peeve of mine. If something as important as a character's introduction can be explained that easily and quickly, why not just take that simple baby-step further to remove any possible doubt for the audience? Don't you think Finn and Rey would at least be wondering themselves how the hell this mythic Rebel war-hero stumbled upon them? They should have at least asked how they found them. Han and Chewie's appearance was basically a jumpscare.

Like I said, a simple few throwaway lines during their initial meeting:

[fanfic]Rey: "How did you find us?"

Han: "Traced the hyperdrive burst. I've been looking out for it, for a long, long while. And trust me, (holsters blaster) the signal's unforgettable... (glances around Falcon interior)"

Finn: "And you are, exactly?"[/fanfic]

Then cue the I'm Harrison Ford, wow 14 parsecs etc.

>_>

I dunno.
 
Klyka said:
The entire point of Kylo Ren is that his "Dark Lord" thing is a farce he is trying to live SO DESPERATELY.

He is a young man trying to fill the way too big and misguided footsteps of his famous grandfather who was known throughout the galaxy. He is being manipulated. He has done things that of unspeakable evil and is still trying to justify all of this to himself.

He is a broken, lonely young man who is desperately trying to show everyone else but most importantly himself that the life he "chose for himself" is the correct way and they should all be in awe of him.

Kylo Ren is the mask.

Ben Solo, the broken,young, geeky looking guy who needs to get more fresh air and a proper haircut, is the real person.
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This. How do people not comprehend this?
 
DodgerSan said:
Here's a question: how the hell did people on Takodana see the destruction of the Hosnian system half way across the galaxy in real time?
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Haven't seen it yet, but stuff like that is irking me wrong. Sound in space, no problem. Hyperspace logic wobbles? No problem. But violating the fundamentals of space time? Argh. That is full-on Star Trek transwarp beaming, communicating across the galaxy, Spock in a cave territory.
 
Blargonaut said:
Just a pet peeve of mine. If something as important as a character's introduction can be explained that easily and quickly, why not just take that simple baby-step further to remove any possible doubt for the audience? Don't you think Finn and Rey would at least be wondering themselves how the hell this mythic Rebel war-hero stumbled upon them? They should have at least asked how they found them. Han and Chewie's appearance was basically a jumpscare.

Like I said, a simple few throwaway lines during their initial meeting:

[fanfic]Rey: "How did you find us?"

Han: "Traced the hyperdrive burst. I've been looking out for it, for a long, long while. And trust me, (holsters blaster) the signal's unforgettable... (glances around Falcon interior)"

Finn: "And you are, exactly?"[/fanfic]

Then cue the I'm Harrison Ford, wow 14 parsecs etc.

>_>

I dunno.
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But he literally said the ship is easy to track and that it being online again made it traceable and that they have been looking for it for ages AND even went to Jakku but didn't find it.
 
Korey said:
No, he was miscast.

It's like if he took off his mask and it was Michael Cera with black hair. Same thing. Totally took me out of the movie and a lot of people I talked to felt the same.

Dude looks like Andy Samberg.

Having Andy Samberg as your new Sith guy is a poor choice, imo.
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The was the point, he was literally like 2 different people. You weren't supposed to some battle hardened Sith lord, you were supposed to see a 20-something with daddy issues. Also he's not a Sith.

He was perfectly cast, you just misunderstood the character.
 
I'm curious how they'll use Finn in the sequels.

He said he's a fresh from the academy stormtrooper right? So even if trained his whole life he would be no better than a standout student/newbie.

He seemed to largely be the comedic relief in this film except for shooting a random mob or two. Whenever he faced a tougher challenge (Rey, Octodad, Stormtrooper with staff, Kylo) he got beaten out. All of these people, octodad joke excluded, had more experience than him fighting so it makes sense.

But I do hope he doesn't just stay as the charismatic Han Solo comedic relief who can't do much besides fight grunts.
 
Synless said:
Not a single person I know thought it was a remake in any capacity. How is it that a ton of people on Gaf are getting this impression?
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The original poster I quoted had originally asked if anyone thought they "copied" a bit too much.

Not a remake.

Let's take Luke Skywalker:
Rasied on a desert planet.
Parents are... What parents?
A droid magically falls into his lap in the exact region of the planet he's on.
Said droid contains sensitive information and must be cracked!
Meets an old dude and the old dude takes him under his wing.
In just a few hours that old guy is killed by a Sith while everyone watches!
Sets off to a far away secluded planet to find an old Jedi Master.

Now let's look at Rey...
Reread Luke above.
That's it.

Just her story alone, let alone the countless other mirrors to the previous films show exaclty what we are talking about.

And it's not that its just something to bridge the gap, that is part, but it shows more prominently that the fates of all those involved are cyclical, like they are being played by an invisible hand that repeats using a different set of pawns each time and that hand is monitoring the outcome, waiting for the perfect culmination of events being played by different players.

Any sith we know of that experiments on force-sensitive beings for his own empowerment? Anyone? Bueller? Beuller?

Its a long shot but the mirroring is intentional - either to bring an air of familiarity or is actually part of a much larger story.
 
1. How did the resistance not know of the existence of the planet base/weapon for 30 years? It must have taken a long time to build as well cost an enormous sum of money and resources. When it was time for their system to be targeted they seemed to know exactly where to go. Why not attack and sabotage the base with gurilla tactics and go all Lawrence of Arabia on them and generally try and hamper the first orders ability to even build the base?

2. R2D2 wakes up (whatever, I'll let that slide) and it's his part of the "puzzle" that shows the way to Luke? What? When just looking at the part of the path to Luke they had earlier in the film someone says that they have no idea where in space this could possibly be. LOL, How about somewhere in that huge missing hole in the map they have ? Maybe I missed something here but doesn't seem like it would that hard to figure it out.
 
Klyka said:
Btw,I LOVED a lot of the cinematography in the movie.

My absolute favorite must be Han and Kylo on the bridge, with the door that Finn and Rey come through shining a "spotlight" on both of them, then the sun going dark and only a red light is left on Kylo's face right before he stabs Han.
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It's great to have a good looking star wars film again
 
Ishida said:
None of those are retcons. Most of them are unexplained stuff, or simply characters lying/making stuff up/feigning ignorance.
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I said contradictions, which is exactly what they are. And errors. Idiotic bits like Anakin building C3PO are retcons.
I think we'd better stop now, since you must be tired from all the mental gymnastics.
 
Spiritreaver said:
I always find you folks that didn't like Kylo without the mask interesting. I completely felt the opposite. The instant his helmet came off I loved his character. Before that moment the Han and Leia has a son thing felt really awkward.

Not saying it's bad people feel that way. Just interesting how there seems to be two completely polarized viewpoints on it.
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Yeah, I kinda like how him fitting the role is mixed. It adds to it, you know? Would be kinda boring if everyone just universally agreed, there'd be like no discussion regarding it, and I find it rather interesting to talk about. I didn't really like how he looked, but his performance in the role was beautiful.
 
jstripes said:
Do we really want more boring political expository dialogue like in the prequels?

Remember, in the OT, very little is explained about the Empire itself.

What? Han's been double-crossing people left and right. Two gangs track him down at the same time in the movie.

It's a different fight. She's not fighting the Empire, but rather the scrappy remains of the Empire. The Republic has her at arm's length, probably because they don't want to do it themselves and they perceive them as a smaller threat than they are.

Ya, the romance probably wore off pretty quickly. Han isn't the kind of guy to settle down. It's been 30 years, after all. Plenty of time for them to lose their passion.

Luke failed in what he wanted to do, and went into exile.

R2D2 got super-depressed over what happened with Luke and Kylo.

Nothing?

Luke tried and failed. Han decided the family life wasn't for him and kept smuggling. Leia became the leader of an organization tracking down and suppressing the enemy of the new Republic.
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Look, I just want to know more about these characters and the worlds the Rebellion freed before they get killed/blown up in Episodes VIII and IX. Them not doing much for decades and then dying feels anti-climactic.

Sure, the Republic was boring in the prequels, but seeing them early on in TFA would've added value to them when they got blown up. Instead, they're just kind of there.
 
After watching this movie for a second time, I feel much more disappointed with the film after the initial excitement of seeing it has cooled down.

Still feel it's pretty good overall, but the more I think about it, the more I don't like certain decisions.

The best way I could simply describe it is that it feels like well produced fan fiction that rears it's cringy fan fiction head a bit too often for my liking. The good is really good but the bad can be off-putting like it just shouldn't be a thing. That is probably the sort of criticism that can be thrown at practically every entry in the franchise after the first, but this gets right a lot of the superficial elements that the elements that feel off stick out like a sore thumb.

Also, since this is a spoiler thread, Han and Leia only really had one good scene together that felt like it actually continued and honored the past, all their other interactions felt cheap and unearned, like it was just fodder/fan service for the sake of getting the fans invested. It sums up a lot about how I felt about the film. You split them up without giving some more tangible incite into why things fell apart? Just seemed really lame.

Also the script seems too concerned with subverting convensions to keep things fresh and the results are mixed, especially since the execution can feel questionable. Of course, it is tough, if not impossible to please everyone, but it feels like the decisions go a step beyond a simple nitpick to me, to making change not in service of the film, but for other reasons.
 
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