[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up

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Boke1879 said:
There are callbacks sure, but some people would have you believe this is a 1:1 retelling of ANH which isn't the case at all. There are certain plot devices that are borrowed from the OT but personally I never thought I was watching ANH.
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I can only think of about 20 mins that were not extremely similar visually / plot wise.
I just finished watching half an hour ago and am feeling totally bummed out :(
 
PopeReal said:
Lol you guys want that explained in 2 hours? All while introducing new characters?

Holy shit.
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They could have done better is all I'm saying.

-the Galaxy has a New Republic but they don't explore that
-Han was doing squat ever since he lost the Falcon. He should've never lost the Falcon. the Junk Freighter looked cool, but it's not for Han
-Leia is still a general 30 years later and still fighting the same fight.
-Han and Leia's reunion dialogue is generic rubbish. Where's the romance from the Original Trilogy? Did all the important stuff happen off-screen? Why are we watching in the first place?
-Luke was missing because Mark Hamill wasn't finished getting in shape (I understand this one, I guess)
-I would've wanted to see the remains of Luke's school or something
-R2 shut down since Luke left

Basically all the beloved characters did nothing for 30 years.
 
Occam said:
My point exactly. The prequels are roughly 520 minutes of misinformation.
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What? The prequels are 100% canon. If the OT has conflicting info, then it's the prequels that have the most up-to-date info. So the prequel data overrides the OT data, in any case.

But I really can't remember any major clashing of information between the two trilogies.
 
jstripes said:
The Millennium Falcon had been powered down and mothballed for years, so it was undetectable, but it's safe to assume Han and Chewie were passively looking for it. After all, it was "stolen" from him, and he wanted it back.

I think it was mentioned by Han himself that they detected it pretty much right away. Remember, there was lots of chatter on the airwaves that the First Order was looking for a ship of that specific model.

So, when the ship that he loves so dearly all of a sudden come up on the sensors, it makes all kinds of sense that he's going to go after it. They didn't just stumble across each other by chance. They simply got lucky that they had Han's ship.



Anyway, the only thing I would change is the sequence where Rey travels from the Resistance base to find Luke. It looks like she got there in 30 seconds. They could have edited it a bit better to make it appear like much more time had passed.
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Actually, I think it didn't take very long cause they are in hyperspace.
The map they needed is a map through hyperspace to come out of it at the right spot, the system Luke is on.
 
Occam said:
My point exactly. The prequels are roughly 520 minutes of misinformation.
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You're just going to have to get over it, man. Or ignore them. It's all fake anyway.

But as far as Lucasfilm is concerned, the prequels are 100% as canon as the OT (specifically the blu ray version of the OT). So are The Clone Wars, Rebels, and all the new comics and books.
 
sphagnum said:
You're just going to have to get over it, man. Or ignore them. It's all fake anyway.

But as far as Lucasfilm is concerned, the prequels are 100% as canon as the OT (specifically the blu ray version of the OT). So are The Clone Wars, Rebels, and all the new comics and books.
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As simple as that.
 
sphagnum said:
Meanwhile everyone I talked to about it so far who has seen it - the two friends I went to see it with the first time, my girlfriend the second time, coworkers - have all said that it felt like a remake/reimagining/reboot of ANH.

It's a pretty widely held opinion.
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So like 8 people is a widely held opinion?

Anyway who cares we got a good star wars movie and people still have to nitpick it to fucking death.
 
Alright my thoughts:

1) Copied too much from the old films. I was okay with Rey being an orphan genius mechanic on a desert planet, but then way too many other things came in. I was like "Okay, I'm watching the same movie for the 3rd time" and wanting more original content. They easily could have had some different basic premise and saved a ton of time to explore the characters more.

2) Is that really a short yellow asian-ish lady alien character? I thought we learned from the responses to Gungans about this kind of thing.

3) J.J. Abrams really fucking hates physics, doesn't he? I thought Star Trek: Into Dumbness was bad, but this really takes it to a whole new level. Even using Star Wars rules the mega weapon and what happens through its use was a super far stretch (also aside from physics just logistically and economically makes no sense for the construction and their numbers) and took me out of things.

4) Characterization was a mixed bag. The premise of each character was good and half the time they really just let the characters naturally be what they are and it worked well and was really intriguing and I wanted to know them more and was ready for a journey of films with them. The other half of the time they really went hard and hamfisted in trying to establish just what they were supposed to be and what their motivations were that it was too direct.

5) The entire franchise has been spent explaining that the force is actually quite nuanced, and the notion of good vs evil is an overly simplistic misconception, so it is annoying to see it played up to cartoonish extremes in this even by those who should know better about the force.

6) Kind of along with that, making the Order super nazis was going too far. Even making stormtroopers kidnapped and numbered brainwashed soldiers? They always had more personality than that and I don't like to see what little was typically hidden behind those masks stripped away. I don't want to think they are all trapped but there is a potential Finn in all of them; I want to think they're an organization that really believes they are trying to do the galaxy good. It makes waaaaaaay more sense to do it that way than what they have going here and it's much more interesting as well.

7) Speaking of stormtroopers, what they did with Captain Phasma was the most disappointing thing in the entire movie. Such a badass design and 4th in command and she gets handled like that? Incredibly dumb.

8) Poe was pretty cool. I became a fan of Oscar Isaac without realizing it from a few other films I saw.

9) If Kylo knew Han was there why didn't he tell his troops to bring any guy with a Wookie to him?

10) Han talking shit about Kylo having too much Vader in him to Leia and her not mentioning her dad came back to the light side to defeat the emperor in his last moments? Come ooooooon.

11) Despite all the stupid stuff and the copied stuff, I still got the feels several times. In a way this eases my criticisms, in another things it deepens the desire for what it could have been. This is a truly mixed bag of a film.
 
Hasphat'sAnts said:
It makes sense from a story telling perspective. With the whole Obi Wan/Vader confrontation and whatnot.

It's like poetry, it rhymes.
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Shit. I should of that of that. However, it would make more sense for Kylo to kill Luke then, no? Obi taught Anakin and got killed by his pupil. Luke teaches Kylo and get's killed by his pupil. Then again Obi was the only father figure Anakin had.

CreepingFear said:
Jesus guys, you have no idea how long it took me to catch up to you. I left the spoiler thread 2 days before the movie released. I had like a 150 pages to catch up to, then there were like 50 more, then another 50. Glad I did leave the spoiler thread a little early. There were a couple of small spoilers such as Kylo's name being Ben, Luke not really smiling at the end and looking fucked up mentally, and Hux surviving. I thought Hux was dead for sure.

I loved it. Absolutely, loved it. Star Wars is back!

My rankings:

1. A New Hope
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. The Force Awakens
4. Return of the Jedi
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. Attack of the Clones
7. The Phantom Menace.

I can't wait for Episode 8 and I've decided to take the hard path of doing the "unsullied approach" meaning not following spoilers and not watching trailers even. RIP Han.
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For my Han getting kileld by Kylo was spoiled, Kylo being Han & Leia was spoiled, Han & Leia breaking up was spoiled, and Luke not saying a word at the end was spoiled. I didn't bother going through all those pages, too much mahnnnn.

You rank TPM under AotC? That's peculiar. I found AotC to be way too boring and a pain to sit through. My ranking just switches AotC and TPM.
 
Ren was based as fuck btw and him with the mask and voice modulator on was hella imposing and scary.

And seeing him flip out and trash entire rooms with his saber only showed you how unhinged the man is.
 
PopeReal said:
So like 8 people is a widely held opinion?

Anyway who cares we got a good star wars movie and people still have to nitpick it to fucking death.
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"Good" is subjective.

Personally I really liked it, but you cannot just claim it was "good" like it's fact. A lot of people may have different opinions on that.
 
Klyka said:
Actually, I think it didn't take very long cause they are in hyperspace.
The map they needed is a map through hyperspace to come out of it at the right spot, the system Luke is on.
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The resistance has been specifically looking for Luke, why don't they go too? Why send Rey and Chewie? They weren't even part of the resistance. If it's next door, just get Leia and others to come along. Plot hole.

edit: Unless there were other ships following, but I don't recall that.
 
MisterHero said:
They could have done better is all I'm saying.

-the Galaxy has a New Republic but they don't explore that
-Han was doing squat ever since he lost the Falcon. He should've never lost the Falcon. the Junk Freighter looked cool, but it's not for Han
-Leia is still a general 30 years later and still fighting the same fight.
-Han and Leia's reunion dialogue is generic rubbish. Where's the romance from the Original Trilogy? Did all the important stuff happen off-screen? Why are we watching in the first place?
-Luke was missing because Mark Hamill wasn't finished getting in shape (I understand this one, I guess)
-I would've wanted to see the remains of Luke's school or something
-R2 shut down since Luke left

Basically all the beloved characters did nothing for 30 years.
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According to JJ there was a few times Kasdan said "You don't need to explain that" during the writing of the script.
I think that is true in some of the things you stated. Adding all that leaves nothing for the imagination. They explained it enough for common sense to fill in.
 
CreepingFear said:
Yeah, he was Han Solo again. I think he was better as Han Solo in this than as Indy in Indy 4 and he actually likes playing Indy. This is his best performance in so long that I can't remember.
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Yeah he really reminded everyone why they fell in love with Han Solo in the first place. Often imitated, never duplicated.
 
A Link to the Snitch said:
I hope that Leia has a big role in at least one of the films. It'd be interesting if Luke was the main veteran of VIII and Leia of IX.
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It'd be nice if she tried to call Ben through the Force and justaposing her with Vader/Anakin visions. Showing all this stuff would emphasize how messed up Kylo was.

Yeah it's nice to leave stuff to the audience's imagination, but it can also be an excuse for not even trying to execute an idea properly.
 
If there is one complaint that really bugged me on the second viewing (outside of the underwhelming score) is that this movie had the same problem both Star Trek films did and space travel seems instantaneous. I think Abrams likes keeping his movies moving along at such a brisk pace, which isn't normally a bad thing, that he always edits it so it seems like space travel is faster then its actually supposed to be.
 
Klyka said:
Ren was based as fuck btw and him with the mask and voice modulator on was hella imposing and scary.

And seeing him flip out and trash entire rooms with his saber only showed you how unhinged the man is.
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O yeah when he get's the news about the pilot escaping(I think?). Then he just goes calm "Anything else...?"
 
A Link to the Snitch said:
I hope that Leia has a big role in at least one of the films. It'd be interesting if Luke was the main veteran of VIII and Leia of IX.
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I was sort of figuring this might be the thing. It would be lovely, give all of them a long arc in the new trilogy without advancing them piecemeal alongside piecemeal advancement of new characters.

Episode IX is pretty far away from here tho...
 
Ether_Snake said:
The resistance has been specifically looking for Luke, why don't they go too? Why send Rey and Chewie? They weren't even part of the resistance. If it's next door, just get Leia and others to come along. Plot hole.
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Because Leia sends Rey there with a "come bring my brother back"?
I mean, Rey is a force user, so obviously they would send her to get Luke. She has his saber and his legacy with it.

It's just.....it's just the right thing to do man.

You don't just waltz up with 50 people to a guy who lives in self-imposed exile.
And he CLEARLY doesn't want to see his sister,you know,the woman whose son he didn't manage to safe from becoming a huuuuuuuuuuuge galaxy wide cunt?

No,you send the new force user with a link to your brother, an obvious destiny and NO other attachments to Luke so he can meet her on an "empty stomach" so to speak.
 
140.85 said:
It's a weak argument because it requires you to willfully ignore how TFA leverages these devices differently and in its own unique way.

I see Harmy is embarrassing himself by doing just that today with his response to Stuckmans review. I appreciate you work on the despecialized editions and your passion, man but you're wrong here.
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Damn straight. Couldn't agree more.
 
So Phasma did what exactly in the movie? Stood around, walked a few places, and spoke a handful of lines.

What was the point of this character?
 
DarkHeartedKill said:
Shit. I should of that of that. However, it would make more sense for Kylo to kill Luke then, no? Obi taught Anakin and got killed by his pupil. Luke teaches Kylo and get's killed by his pupil. Then again Obi was the only father figure Anakin had.


For my Han getting kileld by Kylo was spoiled, Kylo being Han & Leia was spoiled, Han & Leia breaking up was spoiled, and Luke not saying a word at the end was spoiled. I didn't bother going through all those pages, too much mahnnnn.

You rank TPM under AotC? That's peculiar. I found AotC to be way too boring and a pain to sit through. My ranking just switches AotC and TPM.
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I knew about Ren being Han and Leia's son as well as him killing Han, but for a second I thought he would turn good. That is good story telling and acting. It was as executed as well as I hoped. It could have been corny or bad, instead it had me fighting back tears. It hurt, even though I knew it was coming.

I understand why people say TPM is better than AOTC. I understand that it's structure might be better, but I really can't stand Jar Jar, poop and fart jokes in Star Wars, the Nemodians as villans(loved seeing Anakin fucking kill them on Mustafar), and Jake Lloyd. All three prequel films have the most cringe inducing moments, but I find that I cringed more in TPM than even in AOTC and the corny love scenes.
 
It opens like Star Wars
Has a middle like Empire
Ends like Jedi.

Granted, Jedi is kinda similar to Star Wars, so similarities to that film can feel like similarities to Star Wars, but it's really a microcosm of the Original Trilogy in general, and not just Star Wars itself.
 
Just got back from seeing it. It was a good movie. Not great, but good. I'd put it just after RotJ as the 4th best film in the franchise.

I thought I would've been more sad to see Han die than I actually was. But if Chewbacca had bit the dust, I would've been weeping like a baby. I like Rey, but still need to understand:

1. How Finn didn't get utterly wrecked when fighting Kylo within 2 seconds
2. How someone with newly found Force powers could beat a guy with supposed Jedi training

Also, I'm going to assume that Kylo doesn't know his grandfather was one of the main reasons that the Empire collapsed?

And Phasma was worthless. Didn't do a damn thing.
 
Prototype said:
So in Phasma did what exactly in the movie? Stood around, walked a few places, and spoke a handful of lines.

What was the point of this character?
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A set-up for the next movie to become a bigger role without suddenly showing up out of nowhere. She has a HUGE grudge against Finn now. She'll be the Boba Fett of the new trilogy, being the main foil for the new "Finn Solo" we got.
 
Klyka said:
Because Leia sends Rey there with a "come bring my brother back"?
I mean, Rey is a force user, so obviously they would send her to get Luke. She has his saber and his legacy with it.

It's just.....it's just the right thing to do man.

You don't just waltz up with 50 people to a guy who lives in self-imposed exile.
And he CLEARLY doesn't want to see his sister,you know,the woman whose son he didn't manage to safe from becoming a huuuuuuuuuuuge galaxy wide cunt?

No,you send the new force user with a link to your brother, an obvious destiny and NO other attachments to Luke so he can meet her on an "empty stomach" so to speak.
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Not only that but if ALL the resistance traveled together to this place. Snoke and the FO would definitely know something was up.
 
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