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[Toxi]

Kylo Ren is basically Prince Zuko From Avatar the more I think about it.

Zuko is troubled. He is a person broken by his experiences and trying to rebuild himself with no idea how. From point one you can see he's redeemable with proper guidance.

Ren is just fucking off. He's a big ball of barely controlled emotion, and trying to coax out his better side just gets you burned.

 

[d1rtn4p]

He is a strong character, he only lost the fight against Rey cause he was hurt and because he had to deal with Finn aswell giving time for Rey to get back to action.

He isn't a Sith yet though. Reason why even General Hux conflicted against his decisions, something that never happened to Darth Vader. I expect him to come back much stronger in EP.8 though.

I think his loss against Rey was fine, it made sense to me with his injury and all.

 

[Chitown B]

The movie has not even been out for a week and people are still seeing it for the first time. If that idea is already grating you then the spoiler thread might not be for you right now.

it's not even a theory really. it's just the most obvious idea and every single person would think of it. which is why I hope that's not it.

 

[shoreu]

Lando's going to be revealed as Finn's dad in Ep 8

Better be mace windu

 

[Squire]

She probably heard stories about the Jedi using mind tricks - now that she knows The Force is real why not try it?

I honestly don't know how this isn't everyone's first assumption. It's what I immediately jumped to and it felt natural in that there are lines of dialogue that make it clear: Rey knows all the stories and legends, even if she doesn't believe.

It's definitely a reference to the OT. But it's not at all just gratuitously thrown in out of nowhere.

 

[Data West]

Reason why even General Hux conflicted against his decisions, something that never happened to Darth Vader.

Tarkin tugged on Vader's leash every now and then

 

[JetBlackPanda]

That thread about salary has me worried. Disney thinks Ford was the most important? And Hamill wasn't even needed? What? Luke is the most important part of all of this. Why are they so scared of him stealing the show but give Solo an entire movie?

 

[BravesCountry]

I can understand Rens injury affecting him greatly but I feel they did a poor job of portraying that within his movements in the fight. We see him pounding his wound etc. but I would have liked to seem him clearly struggling with the wound throughout, would have made result of the fight more believable.

 

[Frog-fu]

As a thought experiment, let's take an Olympic class fencer and shoot him in the liver. I bet a couple of motivated, generally athletic and combat trained people could do pretty well against him.

In A New Hope, Vader, who we learn is a galaxy class pilot, gets chumped by a space trucker in a hunk-of-junk freighter. Sometimes Star Wars villains just need to take the "L".

The problem isn't so much that Ren lost, it's the way he lost.

Let's disregard the fact that he got clowned in the interrogation scene. Ren was winning the fight right up until he had Rey on the by the chasm. He had her where he wanted her, teethering on the edge of death and desperate, and he tried to seduce her.

Somehow, by mentioning the Force, Rey was able to close her eyes, concentrate and then pummel him in 30 seconds.

It's a shitty way to end a fight with a villain everything up until that point had been establshing as a real threat.

Ren could've recovered from being clowned in the interrogation scene, that's not so easily done from getting rekt in the forest. Episode VIII will have to do a lot re-establish him as a threat worth fearing.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

The way Snoke speaks of Ren being the master of the Knights of Ren would imply they are still around, and if that is something that is supposed to be impressive, then the only reasonable conclusion is that that is a clear establishment of respectable power.

Snoke is also likely a big fat manipulative liar. You could read that a couple ways:

"You, Master of the Knights of Ren..." - pumping up a self-important fan who thinks his crew of foot soldiers is really formidable when they're all like the South Park kids in Fun Time with Weapons.

or

"You, Master of the Knights of Ren.." - reminding Kylo that being Master of the Knights of Ren didn't quite mean shit when Luke Skywalker wiped his ass with them. Sorta like "Congratulations on holding your bullshit title, step up your game jackass, you're with me now."

or your read, which is that Snoke is obviously a badass, and so is Kylo, and their badassery should be taken as read based on nothing other than the fact Snoke said so, and he had to have a straightforward reason for that.

What makes Kylo a threat isn't necessarily that he's strong. It's that he believes, above all, that being a shitty person at all times is the only way he can be true to himself. Which means you can't appeal to his better nature, that'll just piss him off, and he'll never actually turn, because then he'll have to admit what a stupid fuck he's been and he'd rather you eat shit than him admit his obvious wrongdoing. There's an inherent desperation there that makes his irrationality very, very dangerous.

 

[Red Comet]

Saw this earlier today. Loved it just as much as I hoped I would. Was a bit disappointed to see that Finn is seemingly not force-sensitive, and I wonder what sort of role he'll play in the next two. I really, really like Rey as a lead though. Pretty big fan of Kylo Ren as a villain as well.

I'd probably rank them: V, IV, VII, VI, III, I, II

 

[Miracle]

My brother immediately came up with this wacky theory that Finn is going to turn out to have been a personal spy and double agent from Snoke all along to infiltrate the Resistance and find Luke, and that's why Kylo Ren immediately sensed him and became suspicious, not because of the refusal to fire thing.


If nothing else, this movie really invites you to wonder what's going to happen next.

Woah...

That would be one hell of a heel turn!

 

[golem]

is it confirmed that coruscant was destroyed in this movie?

It was Hosnian Prime. Where/what is Hosnian Prime? Who knows, but it was the current seat of the Republic Senate

 

[Divvy]

I think if he was calm, and in his right mindset, Kylo would have smoked Rey. But he was unhinged, especially after killing Han, and getting wounded by Finn. He wasn't playing with a full deck against Rey. I had no problems with that fight.

My biggest peeve with the film is just, honestly, did they really build another giant superweapon with a single ultra expoitable weakness without any redundancy again? Like three times in a row? It's just, I'm really trying, but it's really hard to accept this level of stupidity.

 

[MisterHero]

That thread about salary has me worried. Disney thinks Ford was the most important? And Hamill wasn't even needed? What? Luke is the most important part of all of this. Why are they so scared of him stealing the show but give Solo an entire movie?

They gave Solo an entire movie because he was always going to die

 

[Gleethor]

Blame the marketing team and your own expectations. There was really no need to expand on her right now

This is maybe the weakest defense of any flaw of this film in this thread. C'mon dude. Years of people bitching about Boba never doing anything and they go out their way to make her job even harder, make her HELP the good guys destroy Organic Vegan Death Star due to her incompetence.

 

[Icyflamez96]

She probably heard stories about the Jedi using mind tricks - now that she knows The Force is real why not try it?

I'm not sure why people keep posting this idea that she was able to do it because she knows Jedi did it. It's not setup like this and it doesn't make any sense. She had actual experience in doing it by pushing Kylo out of her head. She knows it's possible and kind of did it already.

I agree with bananafactory, and I don't see how what you're saying makes that theory invalid. Actually I see your theory as more nonsensical because pushing someone out of your mind =/= mind controlling.

Rey having studied about "Jedi Myths" prior is the reasoning that automatically came to my mind.

 

[ghst]

IIRC, they didn't have anything like that during training. Just squad training missions like taking town turrets and stuff. They even posed the First Order as altruistic- bringing peace to a chaotic galaxy.

that's definitely what i took away from the film. all those red banners and jodhpurs.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

My brother immediately came up with this wacky theory that Finn is going to turn out to have been a personal spy and double agent from Snoke all along to infiltrate the Resistance and find Luke, and that's why Kylo Ren immediately sensed him and became suspicious, not because of the refusal to fire thing.


If nothing else, this movie really invites you to wonder what's going to happen next.

Unless he was programmed that makes no sense. They show him struggle with his disisions.

 

[MMarston]

Unless he was programmed that makes no sense. They show him struggle with his disisions.

What if this is like a subconscious, Bioshock sort of thing?

 

[Data West]

What if this is like a subconscious, Bioshock sort of thing?

So Po is Snoke

 

[d1rtn4p]

The problem isn't so much that Ren lost, it's the way he lost.

Let's disregard the fact that he got clowned in the interrogation scene. Ren was winning the fight right up until he had Rey on the by the chasm. He had her where he wanted her, teethering on the edge of death and desperate, and he tried to seduce her.

Somehow, by mentioning the Force, Rey was able to close her eyes, concentrate and then pummel him in 30 seconds.

It's a shitty way to end a fight with a villain everything up until that point had been establshing as a real threat.

Ren could've recovered from being clowned in the interrogation scene, that's not so easily done from getting rekt in the forest. Episode VIII will have to do a lot re-establish him as a threat worth fearing.

That could be it. Just felt like something was missing from him. I needed to at least see him whoop someones ass other than a bunch of computer terminals.

 

[Vault Dweller 111]

I initially agreed with people who were disappointed with the OST. But I think it was partially how the movie was made, it didn't give the soundtrack a lot of time to shine like in the other movies. Listening to just the OST on Spotify and it's great. John Williams absolutely did not disappoint.

 

[Charles Foster Kane]

Also, the ending (specifically the final shot) was a little awkward.

 

[Spiritreaver]

What does being the lead of the knights of ren even MEAN? Do we even know shit about those guys?

 

[sn00zer]

Kylo Ren with the mask is menacing.
Kylo Ren without the mask is a creepy little shit.

That's kind of the point. He's fucking fronting. Klyka's got it pretty cleanly.

I love him as metatextual commentary on shitty Star Wars fans, too.

He is...until the end when he actually kills Han and goes full on darkside and becomes what he wanted to be.

 

[MisterHero]

"Knights of Ren" is really dorky sounding name

Does he represent the Lollipop Guild too?

 

[MMarston]

Also, the ending (specifically the final shot) was a little awkward.

You got that right.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

Also, the ending (specifically the final shot) was a little awkward.

Really?

 

[Blader]

Saw this earlier today. Loved it just as much as I hoped I would. Was a bit disappointed to see that Finn is seemingly not force-sensitive, and I wonder what sort of role he'll play in the next two. I really, really like Rey as a lead though. Pretty big fan of Kylo Ren as a villain as well.

I'd probably rank them: V, IV, VII, VI, III, I, II

Finn and Poe Dameron: Pilot Bros

 

[QuantumZebra]

Just got back, enjoyed the hell out of it. With that said, I'm shocked at how insignificant Captain Phasma was in this film

I have a feeling she was a red herring by JJ for this film, and will play a big role next one. She's gonna be pissed.

 

[ghst]

the force never felt like a superpower in the original trilogy. i keep using this word but there was something more mythical and organic to it, a religion mixed with a discipline. an advancement on zen buddhism in samurai culture.

in the TFA it completely feels like a marvel superpower.

 

[Data West]

Kylo Ren is such a jobber that he's the first force-sensitive person to ever gotten hit by blaster fire.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

What does being the lead of the knights of ren even MEAN? Do we even know shit about those guys?

They are actually just a book club that wouldn't read the romcom novels that lonely ass Luke pitched.

 

[Gleethor]

Kylo Ren is such a jobber that he's the first force-sensitive person to ever gotten hit by blaster fire.

That's not even true if you discount the prequels. Luke's fake hand gets hit in RotJ

 

[Brakke]

What does being the lead of the knights of ren even MEAN? Do we even know shit about those guys?

We know exactly nothing. Maybe they are Luke's former apprentices turned to dark by Kylo? Maybe. They probably confronted whoever had the light saber before Maz? Probably?

You got that right.

Really?

GAF.jpeg

 

[Quote]

My brother immediately came up with this wacky theory that Finn is going to turn out to have been a personal spy and double agent from Snoke all along to infiltrate the Resistance and find Luke, and that's why Kylo Ren immediately sensed him and became suspicious, not because of the refusal to fire thing.


If nothing else, this movie really invites you to wonder what's going to happen next.

Why didn't he kill any civilians in his first scene? No one was there that would need to see him not following through.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Kylo Ren is such a jobber that he's the first force-sensitive person to ever gotten hit by blaster fire.

hey now, those action figures at the end of episode 3 all got gunned down

 

[Toxi]

Kylo Ren is such a jobber that he's the first force-sensitive person to ever gotten hit by blaster fire.

Luke beat him to the punch

 

[MMarston]

Kylo Ren is such a jobber that he's the first force-sensitive person to ever gotten hit by blaster fire.

Ummm Order 66?

 

[ReadingRambo]

Kylo Ren is such a jobber that he's the first force-sensitive person to ever gotten hit by blaster fire.

Order 66?

 

[VistraNorrez]

Also, the ending (specifically the final shot) was a little awkward.

It's been said before, but it would fit right at home on LOST.

 

[Dice]

The problem isn't so much that Ren lost, it's the way he lost.

Let's disregard the fact that he got clowned in the interrogation scene. Ren was winning the fight right up until he had Rey on the by the chasm. He had her where he wanted her, teethering on the edge of death and desperate, and he tried to seduce her.

Somehow, by mentioning the Force, Rey was able to close her eyes, concentrate and then pummel him in 30 seconds.

It's a shitty way to end a fight with a villain everything up until that point had been establshing as a real threat.

Ren could've recovered from being clowned in the interrogation scene, not from getting rekt in the forest.

You have to remember that the force isn't just a thing to be used by those who are skilled, it is a thing that also moves itself upon individuals. She was fated and called to through the lightsaber. That wasn't Luke calling her, it was the force itself, as explained by Maz. So then at the worst moment of pressure from the dark side through Kylo, the light side of the force surged and impressed itself upon her as a supernatural resistance of galactic implications in the long term. That wasn't Rey's awakening, it was the force itself awakening through her. Neither of them really understood what was happening in that moment.

the force never felt like a superpower in the original trilogy. i keep using this word but there was something more mythical and organic to it, a religion mixed with a discipline. an advancement on zen buddhism in samurai culture.

in the TFA it completely feels like a marvel superpower.

That's how Yoda understands it, but it definitely surprises him with how it plays out through Luke and Vader. Obi-Wan gets it, seemingly due to Qui-Gon's understanding of it which was at once more scientific and gave it more credit as a thing moving apart from anyone. Then the PT reeeeally demonstrates the way it moves on a person beyond their will in the case of Anakin. People often thought he was just a dumb, brash little shit, but they don't give enough credit to the implications of the force on him.

 

[Frog-fu]

Kylo Ren is such a jobber that he's the first force-sensitive person to ever gotten hit by blaster fire.

Order 66? Luke? Leia?

 

[ElFly]

Both of you referencing the prequels, please see me after class.

We don't tolerate such behavior here.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

He is...until the end when he actually kills Han and goes full on darkside and becomes what he wanted to be.

But he doesn't go full on darkside. That's the good shit. He thought killing Han would make it easy - AND IT DIDN'T WORK. This is a man shown to be able to stop a bolt in mid air and pause a person across a battlefield with his BACK TURNED to them.

yet Chewie got a shot in him. Why? Because it didn't work. Because he's still a hollow, empty, selfish, stupid faker who doesn't understand that just pretending real hard amd wanting it real bad doesn't make you the thing you wanna be.

Hell, even his hail mary to Rey at the end "YOU NEED A TEACHER" is bullshit. He doesn't wanna teach her shit. He couldn't anyway. He's just faking again. Fronting.

 

[eyeball_kid]

the force never felt like a superpower in the original trilogy. i keep using this word but there was something more mythical and organic to it, a religion mixed with a discipline. an advancement on zen buddhism in samurai culture.

in the TFA it completely feels like a marvel superpower.

I know what you're saying, but Vader throwing shit around in ESB felt pretty superpower-y to me...

 

[dragonyeuw]

JUST got of the movie, a little LTTP seeing as we're already into an second spoiler thread. My first impression:

- Loved Finn and Rey, in particular wasnt expecting Finn to be written that way, a pleasant surprise with his youthful energy and exuberance. Rey seemed to develop her powers a bit too quickly from the 'awakening' part to the final showdown, but had no issues with her character and personality.

- From what Ive read around here, Poe seems to be a popular character. Seemed a little underdeveloped to me, but I suppose they had to push Rey and Finn to the fore, and Han's role was much bigger than I expected.

- Ren started off intriquing, for me some of the mystery went once he took off the mask. Also wasnt expecting him to be written so emotional, I LOLed when he was tearing apart the room with his saber, not sure if that was the intended effect. He did display some interesting force powers.

- Phasma was a big part of the marketing, very disappointing to see how small and insignficant her role was.

- I understand the story reasons behind the 'unskilled' saber battle, but for me it did make for a somewhat anticlimatic feeling. The death star attack rehash left me a little cold as well, certainly doesnt evoke the same feeling as when Luke saves the day at the end of ANH( which, to this day, gives me chills and Ive seen that film countless times).

 

[Christine]

The way Snoke speaks of Ren being the master of the Knights of Ren would imply they are still around, and if that is something that is supposed to be impressive, then the only reasonable conclusion is that that is a clear establishment of respectable power.

It is. He's obviously beaten every other force talent he's found and either taken their allegiance in exchange for tutelage or killed them. It's kind of his thing.

 

[johnsmith]

Every time I saw Kylo Ren without his helmet i kept waiting for Hannah to yell at him that they were going to be late for brunch or something.