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[LookAtMeGo]

In the topic of Finn, he was pretty decent with handling grunts but any one of them that got serious wrecked his shit. I do hope he becomes more than the comic relief though. Now that his role as the man with critical inside knowledge is done, I hope he gets some training off screen or something. It'd be nice if he could at least take on a mid-tier baddie.



I already had an OP force user, it was Star killer and he was so OP it kind of was a joke. Also aren't you using your assumption that Luke=father a bit too early on? While implied it shouldn't really be used as an argument quite yet lol

I think he could be her father but I never implied that. I think he was some sort of mentor or caretaker of hers at some point in her childhood and from what we have seen I think thats a pretty safe assumption.

And I'm talking the movies specifically. Not videogames or books ect.

 

[SolidEyeSystem]

I just got to say Rey sledding down the sand dune was awesome.

if only the movie explained how Rey was so good at sledding

 

[Opto]

I

It's the sudden "and now I am one with the Force so I win" bullshit that bothers me. Not Ren losing.

So you hate the climax of A New Hope

 

[bananafactory]

if only the movie explained how Rey was so good at sledding

Well you see, she spent years playing Luke Skywalker's Pro Sledder VR

 

[stufte]

Notice the lack of hate Finn gets for being a decent shot with turrets when he never had any experience with them.

hah, well pointing and shooting something when you are trained from birth to point and shoot at things isn't as far a stretch as someone suddenly being able to wield a mystical force.

Spoiler

I think it's just fine that Rey can use the force immediately. *shrugs*

 

[Professor Lich]

Real talk, what's this Mary Sue stuff people keep mentioning?

 

[jtb]

In defense of Rey's piloting expertise

Luke: "I used to bullseye womp rats with my T-16 back home" [cue blowing up death star]

I didn't have a problem with it. Much bigger problem with her apparent mastery of the force without any training.

 

[MMarston]

if only the movie explained how Rey was so good at sledding

or how she even made said sled

 

[Cptkrush]

if only the movie explained how Rey was so good at sledding

I'd really like to have her junking backstory fleshed out more. Where did she learn what the most valuable parts of the Star Destroyers were? Better yet, where did she even learn to count portions? What are portions?

 

[MisterHero]

IMO it's a failure of the audience to even think the bolded is remotely necessary

It's not necessary. Rey could've said so through dialogue but they didn't even do that. They could've had fun with it though.

What's a flight simulator look like in the Star Wars universe? It's really cool that Rey built or repaired one. Her life in the desert wouldn't have been completely monotonous...

 

[JetBlackPanda]

Real talk, what's this Mary Sue stuff people keep mentioning?

Some shit max landis won't shut up about.

Google it.

 

[Toxi]

if only the movie explained how Rey was so good at sledding

She trained in the Jakku High School Sledding League.

 

[Blargonaut]

IMO it's a failure of the audience to even think the bolded is remotely necessary

I say if there's a chance to weave in the expanded lore into the movie, then take it

No sense in holding it back for no reason and leaving the majority of the audience who won't delve into that stuff, wondering what's going on and thus forcing them to futilely invent their own explanations

this is blasphemy as far as I'm concerned.

the more I read the more I am so deeply, deeply glad that the lot of us are not, collectively, in charge of making these movies

But the cosplay scene could have so much more depth though

And showing the flight-sim stuff fits with the out-of-movie established lore, so why not just do it in the movie?? :/

Oh god that sounds horrible. Seriously? We don't need everything explained. I her 18 years on Jakku she learned basic piloting skills. She is force sensative and it obviously helped her navigate the destroyer.

That is good enough. Not some clip of her learning to fly in VR.

The explanation of the Force granting god-tier piloting skills is super-lame and unearned

I want less handwavium in my handwavium

 

[Arkeband]

Real talk, what's this Mary Sue stuff people keep mentioning?

A Mary Sue or, in case of a male, Gary Stu or Marty Stu is an idealized fictional character, a young or low-rank person who saves the day through extraordinary abilities. Often but not necessarily this character is recognized as an author insert and/or wish-fulfillment.[1]

Basically any fantasy hero who never really suffers and is just the bees knees at everything.

 

[Kin5290]

Notice the lack of hate Finn gets for being a decent shot with turrets when he never had any experience with them.

Seriously. As someone who has played turret gunner on occasion actually hitting a tiny mobile target when you're on another mobile target is much harder than it looks.

 

[Frog-fu]

Notice the lack of hate Finn gets for being a decent shot with turrets when he never had any experience with them.

It's the "same principle" as using a blaster according Poe and Finn is a good shot, being a Stormtrooper and all (LOL). Being a good shot is pretty much Finn's only noticable talent btw. That and being full of shit.

That being said, Rey is a good shot too and I don't have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with her being an ace pilot or amazing mechanic either.

The only things I have a problem with her being good at are things that previous lore has gone out of its way to establish take time and training to be good at, i.e. using the Force and using lightsabers.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Notice the lack of hate Finn gets for being a decent shot with turrets when he never had any experience with them.

Ok. He's still a trained storm trooper it's not exactly the most difficult thing to do. Unlike piloting a ship.

 

[Secret Fawful]

I personally thought Adam Driver made an absolutely amazing Jacen Solo.

 

[Quote]

Well you see, she spent years playing Luke Skywalker's Pro Sledder VR

SledFree. I hate the part where the wookie eats you.

 

[ghst]

In a movie that already spoon feeds more often than builds the world, I'd pass.

I know the helmet scene isn't exactly world building but it made me feel the boredom of her life.

whenever i think back to those establishing scenes i get depressed that the craft and care they took in developing the character and her world goes out the window as soon as the plot turns up.

 

[jtb]

jesus, all this Mary Sue talk started because of Max Landis?!?!?

1. landis is a hack and a petty whiner

2. can't we just discuss characters/plot/etc without resorting to labels that are utterly devoid of meaning

 

[DragonSworne]

Guys, you don't need training to use the force. Luke was trained for a 1 week and then beat Vader's ass.

Forget all the PT nonsense of having 3-year-olds hold swinging lightsabers,

Use of the force does not need training, it's more mental condition to not go dark side instead.

 

[Toa TAK]

jesus, all this Mary Sue talk started because of Max Landis?!?!?

He's had 3 videos on the subject.

And a back and forth between Mark Waid.

 

[JeTmAn81]

A Mary Sue is a character who is too good at everything, doesn't have enough flaws to seem believable. Rey is probably a Mary Sue.

 

[Sorcerer]

Well you see, she spent years playing Luke Skywalker's Pro Sledder VR

LOL!!! In one of the novels, I believe the Solo kids are playing a video game where they reenact Luke's Death Star trench run.

 

[MMarston]

jesus, all this Mary Sue talk started because of Max Landis?!?!?

this is what ive been assuming for the most part

 

[OricWindstar]

It's the "same principle" as using a blaster according Poe and Finn is a good shot, being a Stormtrooper and all (LOL). Being a good shot is pretty much Finn's only noticable talent btw. That and being full of shit.

That being said, Rey is a good shot too and I don't have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with her being an ace pilot or amazing mechanic either.

The only things I have a problem with her being good at are things that previous lore has gone out of its way to establish take time and training to be good at, i.e. using the Force and using lightsabers.

I mean, Luke is blocking blaster bolts blindfolded after an hour of training from Obi-Wan. I can buy Rey figuring how to affect someone's mind after being mind-raped by Kylo.

 

[Toxi]

Ok. He's still a trained storm trooper it's not exactly the most difficult thing to do. Unlike piloting a ship.

Seriously. As someone who has played turret gunner on occasion actually hitting a tiny mobile target when you're on another mobile target is much harder than it looks.

.

 

[Opto]

Ok. He's still a trained storm trooper it's not exactly the most difficult thing to do. Unlike piloting a ship.

He was a sanitation storm trooper

 

[Pai Pai Master]

The narrative was clearly implying she's Luke's daughter, so if both Anakin and Luke are basically inherently great at piloting, so is she. Who taught Anakin to be a master podracer? No one. Who taught Luke to fly X-wings? No one. They just do it. It's like they pass down skill and experience with their genetics.

It's almost like there is this mysteryious, uhh force or something at play

 

[CambriaRising]

I just got to say Rey sledding down the sand dune was awesome.

Loved the music for that part.

 

[JTripper]

Some shit max landis won't shut up about.

Google it.

Max said enough about it. We're the ones who won't shut up about it.

 

[Quote]

whenever i think back to those establishing scenes i get depressed that the craft and care they took in developing the character and her world goes out the window as soon as the plot turns up.

Seriously, I'd love some Bladerunner-like Star Wars side thing.

 

[JaseMath]

Question... Not sure if it's been answered (I just got home from my first time), but why did Ren call Luke's/Rey's lightsaber his?

 

[Armaros]

I mean, Luke is blocking blaster bolts blindfolded after an hour of training from Obi-Wan. I can buy Rey figuring how to affect someone's mind after being mind-raped by Kylo.

And the short training with Obi-wan before he died and Obi-wan talking to him through the force is enough training to blow up the death star, while flying something he never flown before.

 

[Veelk]

It might help if you read my posts.

I haven't ignored the bowcast because I've already stated that it slowed him down and affected his stamina. I didn't say Rey couldn't have won that fight. Hell, I've said Ren losing the fight isn't even problem.

The problem is the way he lost fight. Injured or not, Ren was winning right up until the power up.

That's the problem. I've already stated that if Rey won by exploiting his wounds, fighting dirty, tiring him out, etc. I wouldn't have a problem with her whooping him.

It's the sudden "and now I am one with the Force so I win" bullshit that bothers me. Not Ren losing.

True, but it's less power up and more that the protagonist found the power that was inside the all along. Cheesy, maybe, sure, but it's how the force works in Star Wars. Always was. Luke did what he did because he used the Force in ANH, and made the shot that no one else could make, for instance.

I've gone over this before in the other thread with you, but yes: The force is an empowering force once you accept it. That's just how it works, and it's the characters mental and emotional states that matter in a lightsaber fight. Rey won because she accepted her identity as a force user in full. That offer was the moment she decided she was honestly not going to go back to Jakku and live her own life, which is one as the next Jedi. If she never did that little piece of character development, Ren would have overpowered her eventually. But she did, and that was the deciding factor. If you want to complain about that, that's fine, but just understand that you are then complaining about the underlying theme of star wars. If Rey tried to exploit his wounds or fight dirty or something, she'd have lost, because that's not how Star Wars works. You win by character development.

No, because at the end of A New Hope Luke isn't thrashing Vader.

Luke is taking a shot he claims to be capable of doing with Obiwan's guidance.

That is not even remotely comparable to Rey clowning Ren, suddenly using Jedi mind tricks, dueling an experience lightsaber and Force using opponent or using the Force to take out said experienced opponent in 30 seconds flat - all in the span of like an hour.

Dude the way the narrative frames it, the shot was possible only with the force helping Luke out.

Keep in mind, the quote isn't "Luke, calm your tits..." It's "Luke, use the force"

He used the force he barely had training in to make the shot that was otherwise impossible. He got the force power up. That's comparable to Rey's empowerment via the force.

 

[Korey]

Man, they even had the hologram game on the millennium falcon table. Anyone feel insulted by that level of pandering?

 

[MMarston]

Question... Not sure if it's been answered (I just got home from my first time), but why did Ren call Luke's/Rey's lightsaber his?

Feelings of inheritance

Man, they even had the hologram game on the millennium falcon table. Anyone feel insulted by that level of pandering?

im gonna start constantly replying no fun allowed soon

 

[Frog-fu]

So you hate the climax of A New Hope

No, because at the end of A New Hope Luke isn't thrashing Vader.

Luke is taking a shot he claims to be capable of doing with Obiwan's guidance.

That is not even remotely comparable to Rey clowning Ren, suddenly using Jedi mind tricks, dueling an experience lightsaber and Force using opponent or using the Force to take out said experienced opponent in 30 seconds flat - all in the span of like an hour.

 

[TheKaeptain]

Question... Not sure if it's been answered (I just got home from my first time), but why did Ren call Luke's/Rey's lightsaber his?

He's an entitled brat

 

[OricWindstar]

Man, they even had the hologram game on the millennium falcon table. Anyone feel insulted by that level of pandering?

That and the garbage-chute line were the only direct callbacks that made me roll my eyes.

 

[Spiritreaver]

A lot of the scenes on Jakku are great. I also loved seeing Rey in the Rebel helmet next to the downed AT-AT.

 

[Professor Lich]

Basically any fantasy hero who never really suffers and is just the bees knees at everything.

Cool, thanks for the info. I can see where it comes from for the movie but for me personally, I don't have an issue.

 

[ReadingRambo]

Question... Not sure if it's been answered (I just got home from my first time), but why did Ren call Luke's/Rey's lightsaber his?

He was just saying "I'll take that, thank you." He wanted it.

 

[JTripper]

A Mary Sue is a character who is too good at everything, doesn't have enough flaws to seem believable. Rey is probably a Mary Sue.

People are blowing it out of proportion (internet 101). Being a Mary Sue isn't the end of the world. Make what you will of it. Luke was a Gary Stu to some degree. In my opinion, Rey is a bit more of an extreme example, but I still enjoyed her. So be it.

 

[JeTmAn81]

Man, they even had the hologram game on the millennium falcon table. Anyone feel insulted by that level of pandering?

I loved it

 

[Kitschkraft]

jesus, all this Mary Sue talk started because of Max Landis?!?!?

Honestly, no.

Some of the very first minor critiques that I saw were about the lightsaber fight.

I personally thought the saber fight was explained well enough in the movie. He was hurt, emotional, kinda sucks, and she used the force. *shrugs*

Regardless, he wasn't the first person to state that her character was maybe a little too perfect.

Maybe he opened up the conversation to more people or whatever, but I definitely saw people talking about it before his video.

 

[TheFixer]

Rey's piloting expertise thanks to flight sims could have been easily displayed in the movie with a 5-second-or-so scene of her fiddling with a controller while wearing some kind of holo-VR-looking headset during the Jakku home dinner scene. Perhaps swiping through a selection of different vessel types popping up as holograms with 'logged flight time' counters floating beside each one, to show that her competence didn't come out of nowhere.

This could have replaced those few nothing-seconds of clip where she was helmet-cosplaying as a Rebel fighter pilot while admiring the desert view. At least briefly showing the flight-sim stuff would have some tangible future meaning to the plot, rather than the helmet scene just vaguely hinting at her love for piloting.

IMO, it's a failure of the narrative when you either have to refer to separate lore in different media or have to project your own inference onto the scene in order to allay your confusion. It really wouldn't have been hard to weave that short explanation into the movie.

This post is lowkey marvelous. We're up in here talking about putting in Chekhov's VR headset flight simulator because, well, the audience must be deeply, deeply unsettled by not getting explicit exposition about Rey's fucking flight skills.

Some people just have no aesthetic taste.

 

[Opto]

A Mary Sue is a character who is too good at everything, doesn't have enough flaws to seem believable. Rey is probably a Mary Sue.

She wanted to stay on Jakku despite the reason being hopeless. Then she refused the call of the Jedi initially, running away, and then she got captured. She also gave some serious consideration to selling BB-8 for portions

 

[Sorcerer]

I mean, Luke is blocking blaster bolts blindfolded after an hour of training from Obi-Wan. I can buy Rey figuring how to affect someone's mind after being mind-raped by Kylo.

The Force seems to be ready to use and good to go. The trick seems to be finding out that your are capable of using it and believing in it.
I think that's the jist of what Yoda was trying to teach Luke. Luke was completely resistant even though the dude blew up a Death Star using it.