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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up

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Right I want to steer a question to you guys about using a lightsaber and if it has any significance about being force sensitive? We see Finn use a saber but whether or not he is force sensitive has yet to be confirmed. However, as stated hundreds of posts back someone said anyone can use a saber, because Han Solo used one in esb.

However, i'm not convinced Han solo is not force sensitive I suppose. Even just a little bit. His apathy towards the force is pretty prevalent early on and even after acceptance he is much happier sticking to what he knows. He had a son who is force sensitive, but it could be argued that is because of Leia. However, Leia has not shown much in the way of force sensitivity other than perception (when she knows luke made it off the death star in rotj and when han dies in tfa). Kylo Ren at his best is shown to possess powers greater than vader, and this is wild speculation, but that might have something to do with being born to two force sensitive people. Just like is plausible that Rey being born to a kenobi and skywalker made her more gifted than her parents (which I feel is being conveyed through her character).

Thoughts?
I think it's just a tool. Maybe only FS can build one (I think that's how it used to go, at least if I remember Kotor correctly), but ultimately, it's just a weapon with a button you press.

Pablo has kinda debunked two Finn as FS theories. He tweeted a Han/Grievous thing, and also tweeted that Finn doesn't sense the republic planet deaths.

QQkzWQc.png


Unless he's known for trickery or something, I think it's time to give up on this theory.
 
Was anyone really surprised Rey has a connection to the Force? I mean, really? I think anyone who paid attention already knew she was going to, at the bare minimum be Force sensitive if not outright known she was likely going to be a Skywalker kid. The trailer showing Finn holding a lightsaber while terrified didn't exactly convey him being a Jedi. His toys don't have a light saber do they? The only ones I saw have him coming with a blaster.

There's also nothing stopping Finn from "awakening" after he comes to from his coma in episode VIII and there's already precedence even if it's non-canon now.


Gina Rodriguez would be great but Tatiana Maslany has a lot of hype and a huge following in the Sci Fi community already. I believe Cooke is already rumored for a lead role in the Ready Player One film that's in pre-production and tentatively estimated for a 2017 release as well, so there's a potential scheduling clash (though I'm pretty sure Ep VIII would win in a battle over the actress' time).

Basically I hope we get Gina but unless she absolutely kills it in the auditioning process I think the odds are stacked against her.

I want both Gina and Tatiana to have a role... =\
 
Of course Rey being white is not a bad thing. I love Rey, she's a great protagonist. Not without her problems, but I love her all the same, and her ethnicity is not and has never been a problem for me.

I am, however, apprehensive of Kennedy's stewardship of the franchise. She is a feminist, but as I have come to expect of mainstream feminists, she is now two for two in following the stereotype in casting white female leads and then building a ethnically diverse cast around her.

Minorities have been playing second fiddle to white men for generations. Now they are poised to do the same for white women.

If you have an eye for it you'll see it.

For now, I am willing to accept that JJ and Kennedy are committed to what they claim is their goal, to make sure Star Wars reflects the world of today.

But to that end I expect some proof soon.

I want a black male lead that isn't second in importance to anyone and isn't a stereotype; Finn is a big step in this regard. I want to see a black woman that isn't sassy. I also want a Hispanic lead that doesn't have to be a tough chick or a man with a checkered criminal past. I want a female Asian lead that isn't fetishised because she's a woman and a male that isn't kung-fu master or computer geek.

We won't see all of these. We'll be lucky to get just one. But I want to see it soon rather than later.

Forgive me, while I understand the point you are trying to make here. There is something that bothers me. When you start to cast with ethnicity and gender as the primary objective, you might cast someone who was less suited to the role in favour of someone else because they were a minority. I understand this leaves a massive grey area, because as viewers who are no involved in the casting process we can decide from limited information if discrimination in casting took place or not without any real facts.

As far as I am concerned, it's really up to whos artistic vision it is to cast whoever they want for what role. It's their story, not ours. However, I am well aware that white people have been cast significantly higher in leading roles, but I can't change that, but it still my stance that each role should be cast in a way where the best candidate should be chosen who fits the role regardless of ethnicity, and i'm pretty sure many people disagree with me.

That topic is a very complex one to cover, because my belief can be used to cast white actors under a false pretense of trying to dodge the issue altogether. So i dont know the answer, but I find something hypocritical about saying I love Reys character, but i would have preferred a minority to take the leading roles rather than using a white woman to try distract us, or a false pretense to promote diversity with a leading 2nd as support. Maybe if a hispanic woman was chosen to play rey she would not have been portrayed as well, or maybe even better I don't know, but we didn't do the casting.
 
I think it's just a tool. Maybe only FS can build one (I think that's how it used to go, at least if I remember Kotor correctly), but ultimately, it's just a weapon with a button you press.

Pablo has kinda debunked two Finn as FS theories. He tweeted a Han/Grievous thing, and also tweeted that Finn doesn't sense the republic planet deaths.

QQkzWQc.png


Unless he's known for trickery or something, I think it's time to give up on this theory.

Building your own saber was considered a right of passage for a Jedi but that was before they nuked the old EU.. so who knows at this point.
 
Building your own saber was considered a right of passage for a Jedi but that was before they nuked the old EU.. so who knows at this point.
There's an arc in the clone wars show specifically about the process of getting the crystals and building lightsabers. It's really good despite being about younglings.
 
who the fuck is Snoke and why does 3PO have a red arm? do i need to read some backstory or something?

3po literally has a comic out or coming out detailing his arm lol.

So far we have no idea who Snoke is. The art book shines some light if anyone wants to post that pic. Other than that expect more exposition about him in episode 8
 
There's an arc in the clone wars show specifically about the process of getting the crystals and building lightsabers. It's really good despite being about younglings.

The Clone Wars TV series had some episodes devoted to the idea. Which are technically canon I think.

Oh ok. I learned about it in the Jedi Academy trilogy and haven't seen all of TCW, so it's good to know that it survived in some way.
 
3po literally has a comic out or coming out detailing his arm lol.

So far we have no idea who Snoke is. The art book shines some light if anyone wants to post that pic. Other than that expect more exposition about him in episode 8

lol, damn, guess i'll wait for a wiki summary about his arm.

The Clone Wars TV series had some episodes devoted to the idea. Which are technically canon I think.

yup, Clone Wars animated shows are canon. i need to watch them soon. heard they're good.
 
Forgive me, while I understand the point you are trying to make here. There is something that bothers me. When you start to cast with ethnicity and gender as the primary objective, you might cast someone who was less suited to the role in favour of someone else because they were a minority. I understand this leaves a massive grey area, because as viewers who are no involved in the casting process we can decide from limited information if discrimination in casting took place or not without any real facts.

As far as I am concerned, it's really up to whos artistic vision it is to cast whoever they want for what role. It's their story, not ours. However, I am well aware that white people have been cast significantly higher in leading roles, but I can't change that, but it still my stance that each role should be cast in a way where the best candidate should be chosen who fits the role regardless of ethnicity, and i'm pretty sure many people disagree with me.

That topic is a very complex one to cover, because my belief can be used to cast white actors under a false pretense of trying to dodge the issue altogether. So i dont know the answer, but I find something hypocritical about saying I love Reys character, but i would have preferred a minority to take the leading roles rather than using a white woman to try distract us, or a false pretense to promote diversity with a leading 2nd as support. Maybe if a hispanic woman was chosen to play rey she would not have been portrayed as well, or maybe even better I don't know, but we didn't do the casting.

Ideally we wouldn't have to place such a focus on gender on ethnicity when casting because it would really be all about who and what serve the story best. Unfortunately, that is not our reality. Never has been, and likely never will be becausse Hollywood is notoriously racist. That's why it's up to consumers that care about equitable representation of minorities to speak up and speak up loudly and consistently.

I am a big defender and believer of artistic intergrity, and I think it should always be the artist's pejorative to decide what goes. Star Wars is not in the hands of a sole artist however. It's a major populists franchise produced by a studio machine.

The problem with a rigid adherance to choosing those who are "best qualified" is that it simply feeds into the problem. The system is rigged. Whites will always have the advantage of being cast and gaining experience. Your stance is one that perpetuates a system that is inherently biased and in favour of whites.

There is not hypocrisy in what I've said because that's not what I've said. I wouldn't replace Daisy Ridley for anyone in the world to play Rey. But I also wouldn't cast someone that looks like her - i.e. is white - to play the next protagonist.
 
Ideally we wouldn't have to place such a focus on gender on ethnicity when casting because it would really be all about who and what serve the story best. Unfortunately, that is not our reality. Never has been, and likely never will be becausse Hollywood is notoriously racist. That's why it's up to consumers that care about equitable representation of minorities to speak up and speak up loudly and consistently.

I am a big defender and believer of artistic intergrity, and I think it should always be the artist's pejorative to decide what goes. Star Wars is not in the hands of a sole artist however. It's a major populists franchise produced by a studio machine.

The problem with a rigid adherance to choosing those who are "best qualified" is that it simply feeds into the problem. The system is rigged. Whites will always have the advantage of being cast and gaining experience. Your stance is one that perpetuates a system that is inherently biased and in favour of whites.

There is not hypocrisy in what I've said because that's not what I've said. I wouldn't replace Daisy Ridley for anyone in the world to play Rey. But I also wouldn't cast someone that looks like her - i.e. is white - to play the next protagonist.

Beautifully stated
 
Because of the way he reacted in the trailer when Kylo started coming at him, Finn never gave me the impression that he was anything but a dude who somehow had a lightsaber but didn't really know what to do with it.
 
I've said it before, but god I cannot stress enough how absolutely horrid that scene with Captain Phasma lowering the shields is. Like my god. Not only does it just seem extremely lazy and stupid, but it also completely wastes what character Phasma could have.

Seriously, an absolutely awful scene in an otherwise really enjoyable movie.
 
I swear if I accidentally click on the Hateful Eight thread I'm going to be so pissed lol.

I have a free ticket thanks to some cinema rewards, yet I dunno whether to use it on that or go for TFA round 3.

I'm actually surprised I'm even contemplating a round 3.
 
I have a free ticket thanks to some cinema rewards, yet I dunno whether to use it on that or go for TFA round 3.

I'm actually surprised I'm even contemplating a round 3.

Saw it for the second time today and I'm for a third time.

I've never seen a movie twice in the theater until today and I wouldn't mind going again today if I could drag someone with me.
 
I've said it before, but god I cannot stress enough how absolutely horrid that scene with Captain Phasma lowering the shields is. Like my god. Not only does it just seem extremely lazy and stupid, but it also completely wastes what character Phasma could have.

Seriously, an absolutely awful scene in an otherwise really enjoyable movie.

Yeah, it was a cop out. Wasted what was a great character design and it was a really convenient way to lower the shields. I'd rather there not have been shields to lower, and just have Han and company sent in to rescue Rey. Didn't need the pretense, since from a story standpoint that's why they were going there anyways.
 
Ideally we wouldn't have to place such a focus on gender on ethnicity when casting because it would really be all about who and what serve the story best. Unfortunately, that is not our reality. Never has been, and likely never will be becausse Hollywood is notoriously racist. That's why it's up to consumers that care about equitable representation of minorities to speak up and speak up loudly and consistently.

I am a big defender and believer of artistic intergrity, and I think it should always be the artist's pejorative to decide what goes. Star Wars is not in the hands of a sole artist however. It's a major populists franchise produced by a studio machine.

The problem with a rigid adherance to choosing those who are "best qualified" is that it simply feeds into the problem. The system is rigged. Whites will always have the advantage of being cast and gaining experience. Your stance is one that perpetuates a system that is inherently biased and in favour of whites.

There is not hypocrisy in what I've said because that's not what I've said. I wouldn't replace Daisy Ridley for anyone in the world to play Rey. But I also wouldn't cast someone that looks like her - i.e. is white - to play the next protagonist.
I don't want to get into it any further, just because there is a lot i could say, but I am unsure on what is really the right directive. However I want to say this at the very least.

I am aware that my stance perpetuates an excuse to continue discrimination in casting, hence why I stated it before. However, I also believe that at least part of the answer comes in the form trying to stand by that ideal morally. I can understand the reality is not close to what we both seem to agree on would be the ideal situation.

I'm not saying I don't understand where you are coming from, I do, so I'll state my final point as this. I think that directive of demanding minority representation is useful, but only in the short term, relatively. There would come a point where if those demands became the mainstay of casting then there is a danger of a pendulum shift (a possibility not a definite) in which artistic integrity can be compromised. So while I believe somewhat your line of thinking is useful, I also think it is important to uphold morally the idealism of something we should all strive for otherwise we would lose perspective on the subject. And for me, that idealism holds the most importance, because generally I believe it holds the most credentials as not recognising any race or gender having more or less importance over the rest.

Also apologies, but that was just how I interpreted your take on the subject about Rey.
 
I think it's just a tool. Maybe only FS can build one (I think that's how it used to go, at least if I remember Kotor correctly), but ultimately, it's just a weapon with a button you press.

Pablo has kinda debunked two Finn as FS theories. He tweeted a Han/Grievous thing, and also tweeted that Finn doesn't sense the republic planet deaths.

QQkzWQc.png


Unless he's known for trickery or something, I think it's time to give up on this theory.
Yeah. I could never decide if that was terrible editing or what. We see no one except the two guys he is leaving with around Finn when we hear the screams, and then when he does run to where Han is we still see no one yelling. Just a lot of people looking into the sky. But we do get a shot of the people on the planets being destroyed looking up in terror and screaming. Not a wise editing choice if there wasn't purpose there.
 
Yeah, it was a cop out. Wasted what was a great character design and it was a really convenient way to lower the shields. I'd rather there not have been shields to lower, and just have Han and company sent in to rescue Rey. Didn't need the pretense, since from a story standpoint that's why they were going there anyways.

Yeah it was all just a big dumb excuse to get Han and Finn on the Star Destroyer and it was resolved horribly. And the funny part is, as lazy as the "hit the button to deactivate the shields" bit is, it could've been given much more excitement and depth with just a few things, and not stick out like the sorest thumb in the galaxy.

Like imagine if there's a shot of Phasma from behind, with Finn and Han and Chewy too, and they tell her to deactivate the shield. And she's like "sure I'll just get right on tha--" *fucking SMACK POW*. She gets some legit good hits on Finn and even Han. She fights back hard but they end up pinning her down, and once Chewy starts roughing her up, she finally breaks.

That would've taken what, 30 more seconds? It still would've been a dumb plot device, but at least it was thrilling and we learn a little more about who Phasma is and how little shit she takes. Instead we get this horrible contrivance and a completely useless character.

And why wasn't that room heavily guarded?! Considering it holds a button that, with one push, can leave THE ENTIRE PLANET-BASE THEY BUILT DEFENSELESS. Fuck what a shitty scene.
 
Spoilers. Basically C3P0, being human cybrog relations, wanted to relate to his 2 masters. Anakin and Luke by chopping off a limb and replacing it.
 
Yeah, it was a cop out. Wasted what was a great character design and it was a really convenient way to lower the shields. I'd rather there not have been shields to lower, and just have Han and company sent in to rescue Rey. Didn't need the pretense, since from a story standpoint that's why they were going there anyways.

Or they could have have had the room in which they place the bombs be the shield generator instead of just damaging it.
 
-Kylo Ren didn't look menacing without the mask. He was also pretty underpowered.
-The lady in the metalic stormtrooper costume didn't really get a cool scene. Speaking of, while they didn't have to spell it out, at least give us an idea of what made the stormtropper with the red shoulder pad different from the rest.

Yeah, but that seemed to be on purpose. He was pretty much a poser half the time.

Yeah, I hope she gets more meaningful screen time in the second movie, she was pretty wasted.


This was my reaction when it hit me seeing those pictures and going "oh yeah" lol.
 
Yeah, but that seemed to be on purpose. He was pretty much a poser half the time.

Yeah, I hope she gets more meaningful screen time in the second movie, she was pretty wasted.

.

Ren being portrayed as a vulnerable character in the movie is better imo, compared to just being another outright badass like he was in the trailers.

As for Phasma, i'm not to concerned with her not having 'cool' scenes. The way I see it, tfa is just an introduction to a supporting character of the dark side. I believe we will see character development in the next film in a more detailed way. If not then I will be annoyed. However, her character's presence in tfa is very significant imo, at least for me, and I enjoyed a somewhat verbally active stormtrooper general.
 
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