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[zethren]

It's possible the Republic wanted to attempt to keep appearances up. Like "we don't negotiate with terrorists". Or wasn't there something that basically said there was a peace treaty amongst the Republic and the FO which kept them in their own respective areas of space? Until the FO broke that treaty in the movie, anyway.

The resistance seems to have been formed to combat them as an unassociated, at least officially, militia group in defense of the Republic. Knowing that the FO would not keep to the peace treaty.

That's all assumption on my part though, going off what little we have on it.

 

[Imperfected]

So, now that the First Order fired their superweapon at a bunch of New Republic inhabited planets, they're probably going to get involved though, right?

 

[mcz117chief]

I feel like this is such a BS reason for this "resistance" to exist. You would think somebody in the New Republic would be like "hey guys, this First Order is literally the Empire 2.0, they even have TIE fighters and stormtroopers and shit." It's such a cop-out to recreate an OT style conflict unless we actually get a better look as to why the New Republic is full of colossal morons.

Sounds just like the New Republic "fought" the Imperial Remnant. They also never went on a genocidal campaign.

 

[zethren]

So, now that the First Order fired their superweapon at a bunch of New Republic inhabited planets, they're probably going to get involved though, right?

As involved as they can, with the Republic center destroyed along with their fleet...

 

[sphagnum]

It's possible the Republic wanted to attempt to keep appearances up. Like "we don't negotiate with terrorists". Or wasn't there something that basically said there was a peace treaty amongst the Republic and the FO which kept them in their own respective areas of space? Until the FO broke that treaty in the movie, anyway.

The resistance seems to have been formed to combat them as an unassociated, at least officially, militia group in defense of the Republic. Knowing that the FO would not keep to the peace treaty.

That's all assumption on my part though, going off what little we have on it.

Yes, this is basically it. The First Order, as with the Empire before it, is a signatory to the Galactic Concordance, which limits what kind of military equipment it can produce. They're flagrantly violating the treaty and had been encroaching on NR territory, but the NR did not want to act unless there was some sort of obvious act or declaration of war. It's all very similar to the rise of the Nazis.

However, the FO knocks out most of the Republic's capabilities because even though the Republic has the greatest fleet in the galaxy, it's a fraction of what it was during the Clone Wars and apparently most of the Navy was stationed at Hosnian Prime during peacetime. So now the capital is gone and most of the fleet with it. Obviously there is more to the Republic than Hosnian Prime, but it leaves us to wonder how the war will expand in Episode VIII. I saw it mentioned somewhere that it would be interesting if Snoke warned any senators secretly allied with the FO (like the one in Before the Awakening) about Starkiller's operations beforehand, got them out of the way, and then gets them voted in as chancellor during the inevitable ramp up to war, sort of mirroring Palpatine's actions in the Clone Wars, but that would essentially be giving us the same sort of plot again.

 

[Brakke]

Can't wait for an added scream for when

Spoiler

Han Solo falls down after being stabbed by his son

.

This movie already has a Wilhelm but given its excitement about calling back to the old films I wouldn't be surprised to hear another. Or several! One for each of the OT movies we reference!

Chancellor (Ne)Villecham(berlain)

This is Darth Badguy levels of embarrassing.

 

[Gorillaz]

So the whole Knights thing. from what the movie made it sound like, Kylo isn't exactly the one that leads the group more so he is just the best on in the pack and they have a "master" so to speak?

Im starting to piece together KoR stuff in general. So it seems they were all in training as well at the jedi temple, and never picked up lightsabers themselves because maybe luke was against the violent nature of it or maybe he just limited it to certain types? I think going forward the Knights are the biggest question for me that I want to know

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I'm starting to wonder if Luke's "academy" isn't really an academy at all, but was more like The Church of the Force that Tekka belongs to. Maybe Luke essentially started an organization that allowed for people to attempt tapping into the force in their own way, for their own purposes. It kinda seems like something Luke would do.

Also seems like the kind of thing that could bite Luke in the ass pretty hard.

 

[Brakke]

So, now that the First Order fired their superweapon at a bunch of New Republic inhabited planets, they're probably going to get involved though, right?

I'd expect a scramble for each side to recruit / conquer systems individually. The Republic is surely dissolved now? The book makes like the Republic gave primary defense responsibility to each system in its own so there should still be non-Order military strength in the galaxy, just decentralized.

That's a pretty natural video game spin-off lol. Basically just Mass Effect 3 at that point.

 

[Theodoricos]

I'm starting to wonder if Luke's "academy" isn't really an academy at all, but was more like The Church of the Force that Tekka belongs to. Maybe Luke essentially started an organization that allowed for people to attempt tapping into the force in their own way, for their own purposes. It kinda seems like something Luke would do.

Also seems like the kind of thing that could bite Luke in the ass pretty hard.

That would make more sense, I think. That, and it further makes it reasonable for Rey to actually be able to beat Kylo Ren. One thing that I've been wondering is how Kylo Ren could've slaughtered everyone in that "academy" yet still fail to beat Rey (even if we take her having a big situational advantage into account).

If the people there weren't being trained to be traditional Jedi, they could've been an easier target for him and the Knights of Ren.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I like the idea that the Prequel Trilogy was about a coup, and the Original Trilogy was pretty much a Civil War, so maybe the Sequel Trilogy is just straight up Anarchy. The First Order just got fucking worked, The Republic has no government and no fleet, so there's a bunch of systems basically without any real order or governmental influence even remotely at play, no Jedi, no Sith, just a bunch of people scrambling like crazy.

 

[Astral Dog]

I feel like this is such a BS reason for this "resistance" to exist. You would think somebody in the New Republic would be like "hey guys, this First Order is literally the Empire 2.0, they even have TIE fighters and stormtroopers and shit." It's such a cop-out to recreate an OT style conflict unless we actually get a better look as to why the New Republic is full of colossal morons.

Maybe the New Republic is as Corrupt (or even more so) as the old one. There never was or will be "And the Galaxy was at peace" because its impossible.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

I found it interesting the way Snoke tells Hux to go get Kylo Ren. Almost as if he cared. It paints him differently from Palpatine.

In The Revenge of the Sith Palpatine tells one of his guards that they have to hurry because he senses Anakin is in danger. And when he finds him half dead, and walks by his side before surgery, it's kind of touching. A little.

 

[mcz117chief]

This movie already has a Wilhelm

glad to hear that. I love those

 

[sphagnum]

I'm starting to wonder if Luke's "academy" isn't really an academy at all, but was more like The Church of the Force that Tekka belongs to. Maybe Luke essentially started an organization that allowed for people to attempt tapping into the force in their own way, for their own purposes. It kinda seems like something Luke would do.

Also seems like the kind of thing that could bite Luke in the ass pretty hard.

Han specifically says though that Luke was "training a new generation of Jedi". Unless Luke's idea isn't just to restructure the Order so that it doesn't follow the same rules as the old Order, but to change was a Jedo is.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

I like the idea that the Prequel Trilogy was about a coup, and the Original Trilogy was pretty much a Civil War, so maybe the Sequel Trilogy is just straight up Anarchy. The First Order just got fucking worked, The Republic has no government and no fleet, so there's a bunch of systems basically without any real order or governmental influence even remotely at play, no Jedi, no Sith, just a bunch of people scrambling like crazy.

I like this idea a lot. And it's also important to remember that the opening crawl makes it sound as if the FO doesn't crop up until Luke goes into hiding. So presumably, there was a time of "peace" between Return of the Jedi and Lukes disappearance.

 

[sphagnum]

I like the idea that the Prequel Trilogy was about a coup, and the Original Trilogy was pretty much a Civil War, so maybe the Sequel Trilogy is just straight up Anarchy. The First Order just got fucking worked, The Republic has no government and no fleet, so there's a bunch of systems basically without any real order or governmental influence even remotely at play, no Jedi, no Sith, just a bunch of people scrambling like crazy.

See, that would be very interesting, but wouldn't something like that involve a lot of exposition and political alliances? Unless they just kept it all in the background and focused solely on Rey's progression as a Jedi vs. Kylo taking over the First Order remnants and hunting Luke/Rey.

Because there's so many things you could do to make a really interesting war in the Star Wars galaxy with more than just two sides. That's why even though the Second Galactic Civil War storyline in the EU was badly executed I think it was a very interesting concept.

 

[Gorillaz]

I definitely think it is an anarchy thing going on right now in the lore. When the first few trailers came out I looked at it sideways like ".....how did the rebels fuck this up". Then I started thinking how it is one thing to end an empire and another to start up a "new one" so to speak. Im assuming everything basically went out the window after the Empire fell, nobody had the power to actually govern more then they could leading to straight fuckery

 

[Future Foundation]

So, now that the First Order fired their superweapon at a bunch of New Republic inhabited planets, they're probably going to get involved though, right?

Had their fleet not been erased, I would have said yes. Unless they've got some backups somewhere, I think the most they'd be able to do is deliver some stern messages about how the loss of life and they "won't stand for this".

 

[Brakke]

I like the idea that the Prequel Trilogy was about a coup, and the Original Trilogy was pretty much a Civil War, so maybe the Sequel Trilogy is just straight up Anarchy. The First Order just got fucking worked, The Republic has no government and no fleet, so there's a bunch of systems basically without any real order or governmental influence even remotely at play, no Jedi, no Sith, just a bunch of people scrambling like crazy.

One idea the Prequels used a lot that I liked was dispatching Jedi on diplomatic missions. I don't know how it would work or if I would even want it but the idea of Poe and Hux both showing up on some independent system to try and recruit it is kind of fun. Two Hated Enemies glaring at each other and seething but they can't actually fight, at least not in the open. Each trying to persuade Benicio Del Toro as president of Mon Calamari lmao.

Although Hux probably isn't given to diplomatic solutions. "Join us or perish" "no" *returns with a Stormtrooper army twice the size of your population*.

 

[Astral Dog]

In the end they should be a way for them to destroy the "Force" that stuff is obviously the true cause of conflict in that universe.beyond any Sith or Jedi.

 

[sphagnum]

It seems like the galaxy was already in a rather unstable state to some extent during the time of the New Republic. In Before the Awakening, it's noted that part of the reason the First Order sees the NR as weak is because of the growth of piracy, organized crime, and alien invasions (wonder if they're setting up for the reintroduction of the Chiss or even the Vong). So there should already be other factions out there, not just the New Republic and First Order.

I also just realized that the New Republic will have been around longer than the Galactic Empire (20ish years vs. 30 years). That's kind of weird.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

In the end they should be a way for them to destroy the "Force" that stuff is obviously the true cause of conflict in that universe.beyond any Sith or Jedi.

I think this could be the end goal of this trilogy, in a way. Not so much ending the Force, but ending the Skywalker bloodline that has caused it to act/react in wild, unpredictable, uncontrollable ways.

The name might live on (I think Rey claiming the name and moving forward, even she's not related to Luke, but more or less adopted by him) but the bloodline might finally end this trilogy. It allows for the story to remain generational, without having everything tie DIRECTLY back to Li'l Ani.

 

[prag16]

In the end they should be a way for them to destroy the "Force" that stuff is obviously the true cause of conflict in that universe.beyond any Sith or Jedi.

That's not how the Force works...

 

[Grover Cleveland]

That's not how the Force works...

Tell that to Kreia

 

[Theodoricos]

I think this could be the end goal of this trilogy, in a way. Not so much ending the Force, but ending the Skywalker bloodline that has caused it to act/react in wild, unpredictable, uncontrollable ways.

Yeah, that seems more plausible. Ending the Force that is said to "bind the galaxy together" would probably have catastrophic consequences.

 

[Jinroh]

I found it interesting the way Snoke tells Hux to go get Kylo Ren. Almost as if he cared. It paints him differently from Palpatine.

Hmmm not really. Palpatine went to pick up Anakin's body and even touched him like a caring father of some sort. There are similarties.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

In The Revenge of the Sith Palpatine tells one of his guards that they have to hurry because he senses Anakin is in danger. And when he finds him half dead, and walks by his side before surgery, it's kind of touching. A little.

Hmmm not really. Palpatine went to pick up Anakin's body and even touched him like a caring father of some sort. There are similarties.

Oh I was talking about the OT. i dont consider the prequels to really be...canon.

 

[Toa TAK]

Oh I was talking about the OT. i dont consider the prequels to really be...canon.

One of these days people are going to have to accept it.


I don't know if it'll be in my lifetime, though.

 

[Grover Cleveland]

One of these days people are going to have to accept it.


I don't know if it'll be in my lifetime, though.

The people who haven't accepted them by now, will never accept them.

And that's OK. It's not my job to tell people how to enjoy their Star Wars.

Even if I think it's a bit silly, people are well within their rights to act like the prequels just didn't happen.

 

[MMarston]

What if they introduce an important plot point in 8 that's prequel heavy lol

 

[Robot Pants]

One of these days people are going to have to accept it.


I don't know if it'll be in my lifetime, though.

Nope never. That will never be Anakins story to me.

 

[sphagnum]

I think this could be the end goal of this trilogy, in a way. Not so much ending the Force, but ending the Skywalker bloodline that has caused it to act/react in wild, unpredictable, uncontrollable ways.

The name might live on (I think Rey claiming the name and moving forward, even she's not related to Luke, but more or less adopted by him) but the bloodline might finally end this trilogy. It allows for the story to remain generational, without having everything tie DIRECTLY back to Li'l Ani.

I don't see why that would really matter since any future trilogy would still inevitably deal with the struggle between the light and dark sides. Removing the Skywalker bloodline isn't going to cause the Star Wars franchise to drop dark side users, they'll just pop up somehow else.

It's not like a Skywalker descendant has to be the villain or turn to the dark side just because Anakin and Ben did. It took the EU decades before they decided to go down that route.

Nope never. That will never be Anakins story to me.

That's fine, but when we're analyzing characters within the constraints of a story, we can't just ignore part of the official story. You can do that privately, but when we're talking about the officially published actual thing put out there, there are certain things that count for the purposes of the franchise or the shared community. It's like, you can't read LotR and make interpretations about Sauron's character and disregard something from The Silmarillion when talking with other people about it unless they are also disregarding The Silmarillion. That's what headcanon and fanfic are for, and we all engage in that to some extent for fun or whatever.

 

[BlastProcessing]

I feel like this is such a BS reason for this "resistance" to exist. You would think somebody in the New Republic would be like "hey guys, this First Order is literally the Empire 2.0, they even have TIE fighters and stormtroopers and shit." It's such a cop-out to recreate an OT style conflict unless we actually get a better look as to why the New Republic is full of colossal morons.

They are just picking up the pieces from a massive war. They don't want to do it again. Thier pacifist attitude does have precedence in history. Europe slept on Germany between World Wars in a very similar way.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I don't see why that would really matter since any future trilogy would still inevitably deal with the struggle between the light and dark sides. Removing the Skywalker bloodline isn't going to cause the Star Wars franchise to drop dark side users, they'll just pop up somehow else.

Of course they will. But it'll be a different flavor of imbalance/turmoil in the Force.

You're basically arguing that any disruption in the Force will NEED to have a Skywalker tie to its origins as a disruption (PT/OT/ST all do) and I'm suggesting a way forward where someone with the name Skywalker (but not the blood) can be a corrective influence on whatever new imbalances might crop up.

 

[zethren]

Nope never. That will never be Anakins story to me.

I think the actual stories in the prequels are just fine, it's just the acting that wasn't good. The Clone Wars TV show does a good job of portraying Anakin the way I believe he should have been, for the most part.

 

[Imperfected]

Had their fleet not been erased, I would have said yes. Unless they've got some backups somewhere, I think the most they'd be able to do is deliver some stern messages about how the loss of life and they "won't stand for this".

I assume they couldn't have had the entire fleet there, unless it was a really small fleet. I can only cite my knowledge of how real-world navies operate for this, however. Maybe when people get to space they make a bunch of space ships and then just keep them all on the planet they were built on, for reasons.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Wait, are people getting back into that stupid "prequels aren't MY movies" shit because VOX put out their dumb "reboot the prequels!" article this weekend?

At least it took a week before internet media started trying to re-fit old Prequel-era arguments in the still nascent new era.

 

[JeTmAn81]

The prequels will always be true Star Wars to me, no matter how bad they got. George Lucas made them. That's enough. There were a lot of good ideas in there, too. They were just brought down by bad dialogue, bad acting and too much CGI.

 

[Klyka]

I feel like this is such a BS reason for this "resistance" to exist. You would think somebody in the New Republic would be like "hey guys, this First Order is literally the Empire 2.0, they even have TIE fighters and stormtroopers and shit." It's such a cop-out to recreate an OT style conflict unless we actually get a better look as to why the New Republic is full of colossal morons.

Actually,I think this is extremely realistic.
They just got out of a galaxy spanning war for freedom. They just established a New Republic that is trying to show the citizens that "yes we are here to stay and we bring peace". Do you REALLY think they want to get the entire military complex rolling and AGAIN send people from all over the galaxy out to die just to take care of some Imperial Remnants in the Outer Rim?

It's politics. It's taking care of your citizens and it's making sure you are keeping the promises you made that lead millions if not BILLIONS of people to fight for their freedom against an overwhelmingly evil enemy.

You don't try to squeeze anymore blood out of that rock "just to make sure" the First Order isn't a problem some decades down the road or something.

The New Republic was built WITH war but it was built ON peace.

 

[sphagnum]

Of course they will. But it'll be a different flavor of imbalance/turmoil in the Force.

You're basically arguing that any disruption in the Force will NEED to have a Skywalker tie to its origins as a disruption (PT/OT/ST all do) and I'm suggesting a way forward where someone with the name Skywalker (but not the blood) can be a corrective influence on whatever new imbalances might crop up.

I don't have a problem with it, I just don't see the utility of it when thematically it ends up being the same thing. I'd actually like that quite a bit, especially since I feel like it would be a nice nod to Lucas in a way, whose first children are adopted.

The only thing that I dislike is that it means that Anakin's bloodline dies out from an idiot (Kylo Ren). And Shmi deserves better!

 

[zethren]

I don't have a problem with it, I just don't see the utility of it when thematically it ends up being the same thing. I'd actually like that quite a bit, especially since I feel like it would be a nice nod to Lucas in a way, whose first children are adopted.

The only thing that I dislike is that it means that Anakin's bloodline dies out from an idiot (Kylo Ren). And Shmi deserves better!

It's possible Carrie Fisher's daughter is playing Leia's child. Although it could be nothing. But yeah if not, that is a shame.

 

[sphagnum]

It's possible Carrie Fisher's daughter is playing Leia's child. Although it could be nothing. But yeah if not, that is a shame.

Nah, she's just a background character. If she was playing Kylo Ren's sister I think they would have brought that up.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I feel like this is such a BS reason for this "resistance" to exist. You would think somebody in the New Republic would be like "hey guys, this First Order is literally the Empire 2.0, they even have TIE fighters and stormtroopers and shit." It's such a cop-out to recreate an OT style conflict unless we actually get a better look as to why the New Republic is full of colossal morons.

Yeah, the resistance is just some stupid way to keep the good guys the underdogs.

 

[zethren]

Nah, she's just a background character. If she was playing Kylo Ren's sister I think they would have brought that up.

Yeah that's a shame. Especially because I want Kylo to die by the end of this Trilogy. So him having kids is unlikely in that case.

 

[Charade]

So the whole Knights thing. from what the movie made it sound like, Kylo isn't exactly the one that leads the group more so he is just the best on in the pack and they have a "master" so to speak?

Im starting to piece together KoR stuff in general. So it seems they were all in training as well at the jedi temple, and never picked up lightsabers themselves because maybe luke was against the violent nature of it or maybe he just limited it to certain types? I think going forward the Knights are the biggest question for me that I want to know

I'm trying to find it again, but I read an interview with Adam Driver the other day where he said the KoR existed before Kylo joined them. So they seem to be "older."

Edit: Here it is

So who are the Knights of Ren?

It was a group that existed before him, that he was a part of. Their place within everything is maybe more of a satellite group than I would say ... This is really tricky.

Same interview also seems to confirm that Kylo is aware of Vader's moment of weakness, like in the novelization.

 

[monome]

épisode VII story cruelly lacks sophistication and feels like it was rushed and watered down to meet deadlines and a very, very, wide audience.

Johnson doing the middle chapter is cool but adding layers to the characters won t erase épisode vii missed opportunities

 

[Gorillaz]

I'm trying to find it again, but I read an interview with Adam Driver the other day where he said the KoR existed before Kylo joined them. So they seem to be "older."

Edit: Here it is


Same interview also seems to confirm that Kylo is aware of Vader's moment of weakness, like in the novelization.

either well get a big info drop on them in the next movie or they will get their own movie

wouldn't be surprised if both happen

 

[sphagnum]

Did anyone else notice that there was a second female Stormtrooper by the way? She is talking with Kylo Ren when he tells the Stormtroopers to keep an eye on Rey because her power is growing exponentially. I didn't even notice it until my second viewing.

 

[Boke1879]

Did anyone else notice that there was a second female Stormtrooper by the way? She is talking with Kylo Ren when he tells the Stormtroopers to keep an eye on Rey because her power is growing exponentially. I didn't even notice it until my second viewing.

Noticed it last night.