Where do people even come up with this shit, lol.
Why such little enthusiasm for Hilary Clinton?
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eBay Huckster
Member
She's not talking about anyone in particular - she's making a joke about the fact that every grandparent thinks their grandkids are extraordinary.
Is it the one who's a Democrat of Convenience?
Reminder that Barack Obama's voting record was more right-wing than Hillary Clinton's.
(Barack Obama, otherwise known as the furthest-left Democratic president since Vietnam.)
gutter_trash
Banned
she is more left wing than Obama though
The Democratic party has only ever had values of convenience since Bill Clinton took over and continued Reagan's work.
bangbang i'm a timpani
Banned
she is as inspiring as a wooden table
Big Baybee
Member
Receipts?
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
What is there to like? She's a neoliberal bank/corporate shill imperialist warhawk. Her husband cleared out every obstacle there was for Bush to do the detrimental things that he did and she'll drive the country and possibly world even further into the ground.
loki 16
Member
I would call her and Obama centre right. American politics are very right wing.
Muffdraul
Member
No doubt the Violent Crime bill was a failing, I won't argue that. But the Lewinsky thing was nobody else's business and the GOP were only proving how willing they are now to play dirty. And Gore shouldn't have been such a pussy and played into their hands.
rokkerkory
Member
Because she acts high and mighty and there are concerns over trusting her.
eBay Huckster
Member
I guess what would be the biggest expansion of government-administered health care (if not for Medicare's inception being 30 years late), as well as every victory of social liberals in the last 8 years, were all Reaganite ideas.
e: FWIW, we're talking about 14.5 million people newly covered by Medicaid compared to 19 million total people covered in 1966. This is non-insubstantial.
KenzinFive
Member
Even if people didn't believe it then, parts of it have crept into what many people automatically assume about Hilary now.
It's the same technique Fox News and more conservative news outlets use: say something ridiculous, most people see it as ridiculous. But the idea is still discussed and given air time, which keeps it in the back of people's minds and ends up influencing public opinion subtly over time. Basically an unconscious meme that becomes part of the narrative.
Reagan was also totally for letting gays get married and openly serve in the military.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
I will say tho that Hillary is great at Defense, which is what she would need the most when the GOP goes at her in a GE. Think its bad now? Wait until the conspiracy theories start.
Seriously.
All the Obama conspiracies started before even the conventions, it seemed like. All those emails about Obama being a secret Kenyan born Muslim. wanted to paint the white house black, etc
And who can forget:
Seriously.
All the Obama conspiracies started before even the conventions, it seemed like. All those emails about Obama being a secret Kenyan born Muslim. wanted to paint the white house black, etc
And who can forget:
They've gotta throw liberals a bone or two every now and then.
I can't tell the difference between Scalia and Breyer. They're twinsies!
Yes the only two 2 term Democrats since FDR who passed Healthcare, CHIP, created 20 million jobs, left office with a surplus + an approve rating of 60+%, increased the minimum wage, passed the Lilly Ledbetter Act,etc continued the good work of Reagan-Bush.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Yea, I agree.
Gore underestimated Fox News talking about it 24/7 and should have allowed Bill to campaign for him regardless of the scandal.
VendettaRed07
Member
She's been in the national spotlight longer than most people on this forum have been alive. Most people have never even heard about Bernie prior to 2015. It's easier to get excited about the new guy
DrGonzo615
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soul creator
Member
Thought this was an interesting article related to this topic: http://www.vox.com/2016/1/15/10775420/hillary-clinton-doesnt-trust-you
That's likely why during debates where she can actually talk about issues, she definitely impresses, but during the course of regular campaigning, she comes off somewhat awkward and forced.
That's likely why during debates where she can actually talk about issues, she definitely impresses, but during the course of regular campaigning, she comes off somewhat awkward and forced.
hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaah
OP I'll try to explain as best I can as a guy who has voted democrat his entire life:
Hillary does not seem genuine to me. She comes off like a character on House of Cards. She changes her stances on issues that are very important to me and has dragged her feet before finally picking a side on others.
Some examples:
-Trans Pacific Partnership
She changed her stance on this. She once called it the "gold standard" for trade agreements and now has since turned 180 and no longer supports it. Bernie has been on the right side of this one since it started to leak to the public.
-Gay Marraige
She was against it and vocal enough about it as late as 2007. Now she is in favor of it, but I think public opinion is largely in favor and that is why she started changing her tune in 2013. It makes me think she changed her stance because it was the popular one to take.
-Keystone XL
She took a very long time to come out against it. Meanwhile, Bernie was there seemingly on day one calling it garbage.
-Net Neutrality
Clinton supported net neutrality since 2006 which is great. I actually really appreciate this about her. However, Bernie was very vocal about it during the times when it came under fire the most. This is actually what put Bernie on my radar, several years ago. I was in school writing papers on it and was introduced to "The Bernie Buzz" newsletter where he was rallying people to defend net neutrality. I also started seeing him on Real Time with Bill Maher about then or shortly after it feels. While the candidates are probably pretty even here and Clinton has put in work just as Bernie has, Bernie was the loudest at the time when I was paying most attention.
-Gun Control
I don't trust Hillary to protect my 2nd amendment rights if she believes it will benefit her to let them dissolve. I think Bernie has a better understanding and respect of what gun rights mean to different people across the country and I believe Hillary doesn't really care one way or the other.
-Health Care
Clinton seems to be backing off of universal healthcare in recent days. I'm not sure where she will end up with this, but I like Bernie's stance that it should be a right of all people to get health care. I don't see him changing his stance on that and for that reason, that's another point for Bernie.
-Money in Politics
Hillary takes money from Wall St and big corporations. She has a Super PAC. Bernie does not. If you need an example of why this is a problem, look at how dysfunctional the GOP has become as they struggle to felate their corporate masters while their base turns on them. Even Obama serves corporate masters and if you doubt that, the TPP should be the example to demonstrate that point. I think back in 2000 it was laid bare that our elections aren't really ours. That really bothers me and I see Bernie as somebody to fight that machine.
Its just hard to get excited about somebody that I don't think feels strongly about her policies and will change her stances when it seems like she might gain political leverage. I think she's a game player and in our current world of politics, that's just the nature of the beast. I think for a long time, you would HAVE to be a game player to get by in our political structure. However, Bernie is talking about changing all that. I know he can't do it by himself, but I am excited at the thought of him ushering in a new age where politics aren't so shady and corrupt. I want big money out and I think he's the one to lead the charge.
Hillary does not seem genuine to me. She comes off like a character on House of Cards. She changes her stances on issues that are very important to me and has dragged her feet before finally picking a side on others.
Some examples:
-Trans Pacific Partnership
She changed her stance on this. She once called it the "gold standard" for trade agreements and now has since turned 180 and no longer supports it. Bernie has been on the right side of this one since it started to leak to the public.
-Gay Marraige
She was against it and vocal enough about it as late as 2007. Now she is in favor of it, but I think public opinion is largely in favor and that is why she started changing her tune in 2013. It makes me think she changed her stance because it was the popular one to take.
-Keystone XL
She took a very long time to come out against it. Meanwhile, Bernie was there seemingly on day one calling it garbage.
-Net Neutrality
Clinton supported net neutrality since 2006 which is great. I actually really appreciate this about her. However, Bernie was very vocal about it during the times when it came under fire the most. This is actually what put Bernie on my radar, several years ago. I was in school writing papers on it and was introduced to "The Bernie Buzz" newsletter where he was rallying people to defend net neutrality. I also started seeing him on Real Time with Bill Maher about then or shortly after it feels. While the candidates are probably pretty even here and Clinton has put in work just as Bernie has, Bernie was the loudest at the time when I was paying most attention.
-Gun Control
I don't trust Hillary to protect my 2nd amendment rights if she believes it will benefit her to let them dissolve. I think Bernie has a better understanding and respect of what gun rights mean to different people across the country and I believe Hillary doesn't really care one way or the other.
-Health Care
Clinton seems to be backing off of universal healthcare in recent days. I'm not sure where she will end up with this, but I like Bernie's stance that it should be a right of all people to get health care. I don't see him changing his stance on that and for that reason, that's another point for Bernie.
-Money in Politics
Hillary takes money from Wall St and big corporations. She has a Super PAC. Bernie does not. If you need an example of why this is a problem, look at how dysfunctional the GOP has become as they struggle to felate their corporate masters while their base turns on them. Even Obama serves corporate masters and if you doubt that, the TPP should be the example to demonstrate that point. I think back in 2000 it was laid bare that our elections aren't really ours. That really bothers me and I see Bernie as somebody to fight that machine.
Its just hard to get excited about somebody that I don't think feels strongly about her policies and will change her stances when it seems like she might gain political leverage. I think she's a game player and in our current world of politics, that's just the nature of the beast. I think for a long time, you would HAVE to be a game player to get by in our political structure. However, Bernie is talking about changing all that. I know he can't do it by himself, but I am excited at the thought of him ushering in a new age where politics aren't so shady and corrupt. I want big money out and I think he's the one to lead the charge.
I was about to say what you added in, it's why she does so well in debates and when talking straight policy. Unfortunately campaigning doesn't play to those strengths, but those are things we always say we want in our leaders.
ErasureAcer
Banned
Hillary's problem is every time she talks she is very gung-ho passionate. Which when she flip flops as much as she has...she's very gung-ho for her new position as well. She tries to oversell everything with this enthusiasm(which her position is often wrong on whatever topic is at hand) and then expects you to believe her enthusiasm(her entire sales pitch) on the next issue as well when we all know she's going to take some other position in 2 months or 2 years.
It's disingenuous. Don't fall for her enthusiastic speech. She can be bought out at any second and her defense is...it's not practical, probable, etc... etc...LIES! Things aren't achievable because most people don't even try...including Hillary. It's all lip service. She isn't in this for the benefit of the people. It's all about Hillary. She'll tell you everything that can't be done and we're all supposed to believe her because...??? Don't let Hillary define what can be achieved. She has her own interests at heart. She is NOT looking out for you. Her numerous enthusiastic flip-flops on just about every issue points to that. She is the worst politician...going wherever the wind blows and setting up many walls to direct where the wind blows.
Tear down Clinton's wall GAF. Vote and support Bernie Sanders. Let the truth reign supreme.
It's disingenuous. Don't fall for her enthusiastic speech. She can be bought out at any second and her defense is...it's not practical, probable, etc... etc...LIES! Things aren't achievable because most people don't even try...including Hillary. It's all lip service. She isn't in this for the benefit of the people. It's all about Hillary. She'll tell you everything that can't be done and we're all supposed to believe her because...??? Don't let Hillary define what can be achieved. She has her own interests at heart. She is NOT looking out for you. Her numerous enthusiastic flip-flops on just about every issue points to that. She is the worst politician...going wherever the wind blows and setting up many walls to direct where the wind blows.
Tear down Clinton's wall GAF. Vote and support Bernie Sanders. Let the truth reign supreme.
I still remember the 2008 dogwhistles so there's that and her cardboard personality in general. I also highly, highly disprove of her and Bill's rhetoric in the late 80s and 90s. Sure they've apologized for the crime bill, welfare destruction, and deregulation (when politically expedient) but I still don't entirely trust her due to that prior bullshit happening in the first place.
I also don't trust her on foreign policy. Too hawkish for my tastes and way too pro-Israel. She also suggested a no-fly zone in Syria which is utter batshit. Leave that nonsense to the warmongering nutjobs on the conservative side.
This is my problem with neoliberals of her type (this includes Obama). They often wade a little bit too far into the right to appeal to the right when they should be setting an example and leading from the progressive side of things.
I also don't trust her on foreign policy. Too hawkish for my tastes and way too pro-Israel. She also suggested a no-fly zone in Syria which is utter batshit. Leave that nonsense to the warmongering nutjobs on the conservative side.
This is my problem with neoliberals of her type (this includes Obama). They often wade a little bit too far into the right to appeal to the right when they should be setting an example and leading from the progressive side of things.
VendettaRed07
Member
Where do people get this idea from ?
EatinOlives
Member
Really too bad the DNC does everything in its power to discourage people from watching said debates. I know that move is meant to benefit her, but it makes me wonder if it's actually benefiting her considering she's at her best when debating.
Hillary represents a continuation of Obama's presidency so it might be hard for many to get excited for the status quo.
Besides she's the only one who's electable.
She's solidly centrist, even by European standards.
Besides she's the only one who's electable.
She's solidly centrist, even by European standards.
VendettaRed07
Member
No it isn't. What's happening in Syria is one of the worst human rights disasters since WW2. Assad must be stopped from barrel bombing his own people. The world has literally flooded with refugees from Syria because of this. Arguing about how many refugees each country needs to take in shouldn't be the question, we need to stop the source of the problem. We don't have to topple Assad but we need to form a coalition to stop his war crimes.
Which is why saying it's to benefit her makes no sense to me. Even on GAF, among Bernie supporters, people have come away impressed and with a better opinion of her after the debates. I feel like if they wanted to rig it in her favor they'd be doing a debate every week. She's got the most debate experience out of everyone, against the highest level opponents you could find: Obama and Biden.
exmachina64
Banned
American politics is generally further to the right of Western European nations, so the idea that Obama, Clinton and Democrats in general are really conservatives gets reinforced by non-Americans on GAF. Lately, the non-aligned liberal crowd have been pushing this because of their support of Bernie and the fact that Bernie identifies as an independent.
User 463088
Banned
I also think people, especially those who came of age during Obama, have completely different ideas on what a President should look like and should be. He was a once in a lifetime candidate. There won't be another Obama in quite a while. He was perfectly positioned at a time when he could tap into the excitement from the Dem base who had just come through 8 years of pure hell at the hands of Shrub.
100%.
However I really for sure turned off of Hillary by the whole email situation. True or not the fact it even hit national spotlight is a big flag for me. Being in the military I know much about OPSEC and people die over shit like that.
Loose lips do sink ships.
Doesn't matter what it was or how she felt it should be handled. Those lower on the totem pole would at the very least be fired and never be able to gain a government security clearance again and very possible for jail time. So in the basis of my brothers and sisters in uniform I do not trust her.
Bernie is who I go for and who I want.
exmachina64
Banned
Yeah, that's true also. I was a freshman in college when I voted for Obama in '08, if I hadn't gone through a lot of poli-sci classes, my perspective would be skewed.
googleplex
Member
But none of them are running for president so what the point here?
Email "gate" is a bullshit issue that no one apart from the GOP cares for. Fox "News" has been pushing this as a controversy but are finally coming to the realisation that no one gives a shit.
I...
I'm going to steal something from Poligaf here. Is there some alternate universe that GAF connects to that we get to see posts from? In what world is she right wing? She's been fighting for progressive causes for decades, was the 11th most liberal senator for her tenure (to the left of Obama I might add), and the original way the republicans tried to characterize her was as some far left lunatic. It's like people aren't even looking at her record, just the Hillary they've built up in their heads from I don't even know what sources. Is she the perfect ideal leftist? No, but she has a solid track record and is the best choice in the current climate. She's the steady as we go choice that will make it so that when I get my ideal choice twenty years down the line they wont be facing an overwhelmingly conservative supreme court that's going to shoot down all their initiatives and insure we don't see any progress for a generation.
EatinOlives
Member
Yeah I really don't know what the DNC has been trying to achieve here.
User 463088
Banned
Regardless of who you support, I think we all know DWS is incompetent.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
I dislike Hillary because she is a corporate shill and is one of the driving forces between extremely egregious incarceration toughness. There are so many shady dealings with her fingerprints all over them that I feel utter disgust at people actively rallying around her like she is some saintly moral person. America continues to get what it deserves when it chooses between Trump/Cruz/Rubio and Clinton.
Here's hoping for a Hail Mary that gets Bernie in the driver's seat for the nomination/presidency. It would probably ignite my love of politics again to someone like that in power. Someone who takes on most of Obama's best qualities, without bombing innocent bystanders with drones at wedding parties in Afghanistan, TPP, etc.
Here's hoping for a Hail Mary that gets Bernie in the driver's seat for the nomination/presidency. It would probably ignite my love of politics again to someone like that in power. Someone who takes on most of Obama's best qualities, without bombing innocent bystanders with drones at wedding parties in Afghanistan, TPP, etc.
Yes, it is batshit when you consider the results of your actions will lead to a very hot war with all the other factions running around there, including Russia and Iran. If you think the refugee crisis now is somewhat bad, consider what happens when the entire region is embroiled in war.
We can do a lot of things to help Syria that are far, far better than literally invading Syria and inflaming the pro-Syria forces.
So, do you feel the same way about Obama for this? Or that Bernie was pro-civil unions?
Like if we're going to shit on Democrats who have changed their minds on gay marriage, let us not limit that to Hillary.
No one knows!
I realize that.
But just like her flip flopping causing trust issues it made me notice how much better Bernie is without the baggage.
If you think your girl is cheating on you and then someone tells you she is cheating on you would you really trust her?
Terrible metaphor I know but I felt it semi-conveyed the point.
People did care so I suppose it did work. It's just mostly DoD personnel who deal with classified shit. Of which its such a small percent of the nation that it seems no one does so I understand why you feel that way.
I love this. She's basically this year's Mitt Romney for Democrats.
stufte
Member
That I'll vote for Elizabeth Warren if/when she runs at some point. I'm not going to vote for Hillary just because she's a woman and it'd be historic. I have more respect for the process than that.
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