EatinOlives
Member
If your behavior in this thread is your idea of being a minority ally...yeah, thanks but no thanks. Minorities neither need nor want support from "allies" that spew things like this:
Hillary destroying Bernie among minorities. women, age 50+ in New NBC/WSJ Poll
- Thread starter NeoXChaos
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If your behavior in this thread is your idea of being a minority ally...yeah, thanks but no thanks. Minorities neither need nor want support from "allies" that spew things like this:
dsp
Member
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but Bill Maher brought this up to Cornel West last night. West mentioned that, amongst black voters, Bernie's numbers have gone up from 4% to 20% in South Carolina over the last few months, so his popularity does seem to be rising with some minorities.
Most of the Hilary haters make drive by posts and that's about it. You won't usually see them as the thread turns into a discussion. So yeah they are there but they don't stick around to argue their points. Hillary supporters by and large do. Though there are some Bernie supporters that do too obviously. But for me at least, that's why it sometimes seems lopsided. The Hillary supporters tend to be more serious/intense I would even say.
Who was banned by the way?
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
ErasureAcer is actually a bot the mods have created to better prepare GAF for the primary elections when Sanders shockingly doesn't do so hot in places that aren't
I'm sure of it.
I'm sure of it.
Aztechnology
Member
It makes logical sense to me. Bernie is the man trying to stamp out poverty, reform wall street and bring more socialied systems into place. No matter what take you might have on race issues, it's undeniable that poverty, especially amongst underpriviledged minorities is one of, if not the most crucial problems to solve.
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
Hillary is gonna win, huh?
ErasureAcer
Banned
Ted Cruz isn't going to beat Bernie. He probably wouldn't even beat Hillary.
Yeah, but he better be careful because the ire has risen as well. I hope he tones down that whole "I marched with King" thing, because it's kind of become a meme to black folks at this point.
"Bernie claimed to not know much about the Tamir Rice situation even though he uses his name on his website...but that's cool, he marched with King tho!"
Yep, its entertaining to see some democrats now see this for themselves, applied on them. They wont mind using it in the GE ofcourse, then its perfectly ok!
The worst part about it: It does not work. Antagonizing people and threatening them, does not make them change their stance, makes them double down on it.
gutter_trash
Banned
Ted is ineligibly not American
I guess we just disagree. It's funny, because one could say the same about neoliberals and the "third way" Dems that have populated the Democrat party since Reagan. These people knowingly went with the tide against their better convictions. The ironic thing is that's why a lot of Erasure types hate types like Hillary. It's why I certainly possess less adoration for the Clintons than others. I think Bill and Hillary knowingly sacrificed millions of poor blacks to the machine of pragmatism. White vote was just too strong back in those days.
Anyways, as long as Erasure and guys like him can hype up enough people to go out there and vote for progressives, I see his impact as neutral no matter how snide and condescending he may be online. *shrugs*
Do you know why? Because Ginsburg, Breyer, Sotomayer, and Kagan exist. (And sometimes Kennedy.) When the Justices are serving on the bench for 20+ years, we should be doing everything we can to ensure that new appointments are not another Thomas or Scalia.
ErasureAcer
Banned
Bernie is making his first stop in Alabama tomorrow where the topic of conversation on MLK Jr. Day is consequently MLK Jr.
Bernie was at a black church today in SC also talking about Dr. King.
He's not going to stop. Bernie understands that Martin Luther King Jr. was a visionary...he has adopted that vision for his entire life. The black community at large may be sick of a white guy talking about MLK Jr. but then that goes against MLK Jr.'s teaching to look beyond race and judge people for their character. Ironic.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Yup.
I wonder why people keep quoting ErasureAcer; guilt trips, fear mongering, etc. does not work even if you're in the right.
ErasureAcer
Banned
4 is greater than 5 in your world. Thanks for acknowledging the current Supreme Court is conservative.
SolicitorPirate
Member
It's long been a problem with many progressives. In a way, maybe Sander's rise has been good since its an opportunity for liberals to taste their own poison and see what it's like.
Cerium.
And I really disagree. I mean, in that last thread, you had someone saying that Hillary's posture during the Benghazi hearings was disqualifying towards her candidacy for president. I've never seen something that patently ridiculous from Hillary fans here, though there are some terrible posters on her end.
Yes, it can be conservative, but it can also give us things like Obergefell v. Hodges or King v. Burwell, which would not have happened without Obama's two appointments.
I'm LOL'ing if you really think the reason black people are tired of Bernie talking about MLK is because he's white.
He can't. Because I intend to vote for Bernie and talking to people like him makes saying that feel gross. I can't imagine people who didn't intend to do so in the first place will be any more convinced.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
I agree. It seems like some progressives can't take their own medicine.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
That's why as a minority I'm doubling down on Bernie. But thank you for trying to scare me or play up we'll save you from republicans just settle for Hillary.
Good Job Bob
Member
Does Bernie really talk about MLK that often?
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I don't like the statement that Bernies supporters are his own worst enemy, or they really are a cult of personality, and all that. They are loud, they are vocal, they try to keep a thing going, but that's how it is.
As long as political activism is non-violent and non-threatening I believe the discourse is mostly fair.
I see some posters here who have come to the defense of BLM many times, when they have been accused of the same sort of backslash; "I like what they say and I agree- but I don't like how they say it, so I'm about to disagree with them".
You cannot blame people for being angry and fed up. Even if it makes you uncomfortable. The United States really, really need better public systems, and the European powers who already have it needs to be reminded that it is worth fighting for. The systems are being scrutinized and people are yelling bloody mary about the future. Even people like Elon Musk ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP5Z14X-moM ).
Bernie never had good chances, so people try at every turn to make the movement better, and you can say what you want, but Bernie Sanders campaign has already done a lot of historic things in what he has been able to achieve with his campaign in terms of grassroot penetration.
Like what Noam Chomsky says, it's a shame that this movement might not last post Bernies campaign. Like Occupy Wallstreet it will wither, momentum will fall and we will fall into the familiar.
I really, really think you have to try separate the enthusiasm for people trying to make Sanders happens with words like "cult of personality" and "insane". It's being disingenuous and basically saying "stop trying to make X happen". I don't believe anyone votes for Bernie because of him. He is not a great speaker, debater, charmer, or that. It's his policies.
Selflessly many many many people in the middle class are scared of losing what they have, and people have seen the corporations selling people out to oversears and automation. It's when the broad middle class takes action that historically things really start to move.
I don't believe 9/10 people who say they will vote for Trump over Hilary if Bernie doesn't get the nomination are truthful. People are saying it, like they say they will boycott the next EA or Ubisoft game. But most people will do the right thing. Hilary is a gifted politician. Hating her makes no sense as she just plays by the rules. Bernie tries to break the rules and do the impossible, and that inspires hope and knee-jerk reactions alike.
I really wish people who say he is unelectable would give him a chance. Yes, most people, anywhere in the world vote for the person who has the most ads and whose name they recognize. It never looked good for Bernie when we're a culture of watching soundbyte sized politics in small easily digestible packages, but we should still do the right thing.
The policies he is championing would help a lot of people. I sincerely believe that. There are some really bad apples in the democratic party who probably really are closet conservatives, but what can you do when you have two parties, and the republican one have been hijacked by insane people? It's such a clusterfuck!
As long as political activism is non-violent and non-threatening I believe the discourse is mostly fair.
I see some posters here who have come to the defense of BLM many times, when they have been accused of the same sort of backslash; "I like what they say and I agree- but I don't like how they say it, so I'm about to disagree with them".
You cannot blame people for being angry and fed up. Even if it makes you uncomfortable. The United States really, really need better public systems, and the European powers who already have it needs to be reminded that it is worth fighting for. The systems are being scrutinized and people are yelling bloody mary about the future. Even people like Elon Musk ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP5Z14X-moM ).
Bernie never had good chances, so people try at every turn to make the movement better, and you can say what you want, but Bernie Sanders campaign has already done a lot of historic things in what he has been able to achieve with his campaign in terms of grassroot penetration.
Like what Noam Chomsky says, it's a shame that this movement might not last post Bernies campaign. Like Occupy Wallstreet it will wither, momentum will fall and we will fall into the familiar.
I really, really think you have to try separate the enthusiasm for people trying to make Sanders happens with words like "cult of personality" and "insane". It's being disingenuous and basically saying "stop trying to make X happen". I don't believe anyone votes for Bernie because of him. He is not a great speaker, debater, charmer, or that. It's his policies.
Selflessly many many many people in the middle class are scared of losing what they have, and people have seen the corporations selling people out to oversears and automation. It's when the broad middle class takes action that historically things really start to move.
I don't believe 9/10 people who say they will vote for Trump over Hilary if Bernie doesn't get the nomination are truthful. People are saying it, like they say they will boycott the next EA or Ubisoft game. But most people will do the right thing. Hilary is a gifted politician. Hating her makes no sense as she just plays by the rules. Bernie tries to break the rules and do the impossible, and that inspires hope and knee-jerk reactions alike.
I really wish people who say he is unelectable would give him a chance. Yes, most people, anywhere in the world vote for the person who has the most ads and whose name they recognize. It never looked good for Bernie when we're a culture of watching soundbyte sized politics in small easily digestible packages, but we should still do the right thing.
The policies he is championing would help a lot of people. I sincerely believe that. There are some really bad apples in the democratic party who probably really are closet conservatives, but what can you do when you have two parties, and the republican one have been hijacked by insane people? It's such a clusterfuck!
Oh yeah, haven't seen them for a while.
In the end, it's all pointless bickering. Whoever is going to win is going to win regardless of the discussions had on GAF. I think the discussions are worth having but sometimes people emotions get a bit too riled up on both sides. It will be nice once we have a winner on the Democratic side because most on GAF will get behind that person and we'll all get along and those that won't will likely stop participating anyway since it's all "hopeless" or whatever they have decided in their minds.
Oh don't you fucking dare.
"He marched with Dr. King" is basically the Bernie supporter's mating call any time his lack of support in the black community comes up. Which isn't fair to him, but Royalan's right. It's lost meaning and now just sounds like trying to use a get out of jail free card.
ErasureAcer is actually a bot the mods have created to better prepare GAF for the primary elections when Sanders shockingly doesn't do so hot in places that aren't
I'm sure of it.
He is going to knock it out of the park with the whole grains and pumpernickles
I'm black, so being white has nothing really to do with it. It has to do with who pays attention to politics closely enough to know the nuances of discussion, and what actual forms of media and news they consume it from when they do happen to try and pay attention.
And there are a majority of folks who do not really know what goes on, or what the positions of the candidates are. Part of that having to do with the media's fixation on Trump, GOP, war time obsession coverage to actually have an actual contrast between all candidates.
I can tell you even at the time of the primaries, a majority of the people who vote for Hillary will be voting because they know her name, and because she's been in the media spotlight for god knows how many years, not actual indepth research into her policy positions.
That makes no sense. Any up and coming candidate would have a problem against the Clinton machine just on the basis of name recognition alone. It was only after the Iowa caucuses that a lot of people even knew who Obama was nationally, in terms of race or not.
Your presenting a national poll when the primaries in each individual state are what matter, the wins in Iowa started the original avalanche in 2008.
Its not selfishness to not support someone you don't fundamentally disagree with. Telling people to 'fall in line' is probably the worst thing the opposition could do, it just makes it less likely for that to happen in any scenario.
It really is. White savior-ing aka being patronizing and arrogant is a great way to alienate minority voters.
People like that usually show they're true colors by later accusing minorities of being the racist ones.
honestly cant wait. Just 2 more weeks.
MHWilliams
Member
Note, I'm the one who said that Bernie's supporters are his own worst enemy. Somehow, you've taken this to mean that I do not support Bernie.
Once again, will vote for Bernie is he wins the nomination. Prefer Bernie to Hillary. But at the same time, I win not throw away a vote if Bernie doesn't win because it means far more than just a simple vote. And do I believe Hillary will probably be more electable in the general? Yeah.
So, no, your metaphor doesn't track, because I'm not disagreeing with Bernie because of his supporters. Quite the opposite, it's despite those supporters that I hope Bernie gets a shot. Still think some of the statements of his fervent supporters, as illustrated in this thread, do more harm than good to his campaign.
Then the only difference between you and I is you don't take their statements at face value.
ErasureAcer
Banned
Then why are black people tired of Bernie? Because he's (wrongly) seen as a one-trick pony when it comes to the black community...he can't get through a sentence without talking about Dr. King? What is it...you tell me.
This is pretty rich considering how many people have dismantled you with facts. You just keep going though, ignore and keep spouting those bullet points. Every thread. I've tried to engage you and it is like talking to a holy warrior.
I'll be really curious to see how involved you are post election.
Edit: Derp
Well said. I think this is a great opportunity for the left as whole to see how going all "ham" and aggressive on someone, in a attempt to shame them into changing their opinions does not work. In fact, like i previously said, it makes people defensive and then they double down on what they originally thought anyway.
"You better vote and think what i think cuz if not you are literally Hitler scumbag, KKK member, bigot!"
A much better strategy, is to try to have a friendly conversation, find out what they believe, and even more importantly why they believe it. Then in a calm manner without hyperbole and fear mongering present your case without ever it being you vs. them.
Bernie doesn't talk about MLK constantly, infact, he hardly ever talks about it. He was attacked for NOT talking about racial issues specifically on the campaign trail, and so he has pivoted to having that specifically in his platform.
He has put out a more comprehensive racial justice plan than Hillary has in regards to criminal justice reform, wage reform and actual discrimination reform, and its right on his website.
He has long since gone after incarceration and disproportionate arrests against my race, while Hillary and Bill were pushing the war on drugs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZJ7f-3XGB4
I don't know what else can be done besides educating people on Bernie's positions now and in the past. A lot of what your saying and the critique largely comes from not even knowing his record in the senate or in Vermot to begin with.
It's selfishness to not support someone who has a plurality (or even majority) of policies you agree with when you believe the alternative is destructive to the lives of others (as Erasure has indicated he does) just because you can't have the one you 100% agree with.
ErasureAcer
Banned
Because the "Anyone But"....idea worked so great in 2004. The way you get people to the polls is by enticing their interests...get them skin in the game. Voting against ones fears is not a way to win elections. Hope and Change wins. Anyone But loses.
Aztechnology
Member
In the barest sense that's how most Sanders backers feel, yes. Hillary is the half measure, but doesn't strike at the root of the problems in the same way Bernie does.
Nothing can be done. People are dug in. This argument is an automatic loss and has been for a while.
p. much.
Well, it is pretty obvious one reason, among many, Bernie isn't doing as well as Hillary in the later primaries is because people don't know who he is or his positions. That's on his campaign to educate potential supporters. It's not Hillary's fault he hasn't held high positions in government outside of senator from Vermont or has very few legislative achievements that have garnered national attention. Name recognition accounts for a lot in national politics. He has to put in the work, especially the groundwork. If his campaign can't do that, then even early primary victories probably won't translate to success in the latter primaries.
If I wasn't so sure people lie to you when talking about politics, I'd be worried about what you're saying.
When I went to www.isidewith.com Hillary was almost as high in my score as Bernie, so I don't feel bad at all about voting for her if she gets the nom instead of Bernie.
ErasureAcer
Banned
The guy I quoted said the black people he knows are sick of Bernie talking about Dr. King. I was quoting him.
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