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[Your Entertainer]

PM was amaizing, and TTYD was legit one of my favorite games ever.

SPM was a huge, huge dropoff in quality and largely very disappointing. Sticker Star was just ugh.

 

[TheMoon]

I'm surprised they haven't abandoned ship.

Whatever. Intelligent Systems hasn't made a great game in a long time.

Their last great game came out about a year ago.

edit: maybe even half a year ago since I have no idea how good FE Fates is yet.

 

[Firemind]

Their last great game came out about a year ago.

Pushmo World?

 

[TheMoon]

Pushmo World?

See, potentially 3 great games just in the last year.

 

[SuperSah]

Why da SPM hate yo

It was a great game.

 

[SaintMadeOfPlaster]

Why da SPM hate yo

It was a great game.

While I agree with you, it makes sense that the game has a lot of backlash. It hardly plays at all like the games that established the series.

 

[Kaisos]

All you need to do is read this to know exactly how boring this game is going to be.

There aren't going to be any original characters, or any new settings, or anything. That's what Mario is like now.

Even if it plays more like a traditional Mario RPG, any sort of creativity or life is going to be sucked out of it, because I don't even know what the hell they're thinking. For a long time now, they've been having trouble understanding what their fans actually want.

It'll probably just be Sticker Star 2 anyway.

 

[Joqu]

Why da SPM hate yo

It was a great game.

Tippi. ;_;

 

[DecoReturns]

Why da SPM hate yo

It was a great game.

Different Gameplay, has Paper Mario in the title meaning people were expecting a traditional RPG gameplay.

I was thought that the gameplay change was because of the wiimote and wii, trying something new.

While I agree with you, it makes sense that the game has a lot of backlash. It hardly plays at all like the games that established the series.

Is it really deserve backlash? It wasn't a rule that it needed to have the same gameplay, it still looks and feels like a Paper Mario game.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Gaf has leveled up from complaining about games we havent played, to complaining about games we know nothing about. Great.

 

[also]

->



http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/papermario/0/1

It seem the development for both started around the same time. Maybe Sticker Star was a test run and since it proved successful that also influenced Paper Jam?

Looking at the Iwata Asks interview, Kudo said he had a similar idea, due to it being a portable game and the rest of the dev team got excited by these restrictions

He just agreed that a lengthy story wasn't needed and not that there should be no original characters. Even so I wonder if they would have gone ahead and cut the story if Miyamoto didn't say so.

Kudo also said: ''Well, as mentioned before, the mechanics present new challenges and the gameworld represents a new start. We worked hard so that this game would become the new standard for future Paper Mario games, so please play it to the fullest! ''

:/
I just want them to make the RPG they were making originally, even if Miyamoto calls it just a port of TTYD.

 

[Crayolan]

All you need to do is read this to know exactly how boring this game is going to be.

There aren't going to be any original characters, or any new settings, or anything. That's what Mario is like now.

Even if it plays more like a traditional Mario RPG, any sort of creativity or life is going to be sucked out of it, because I don't even know what the hell they're thinking. For a long time now, they've been having trouble understanding what their fans actually want.

It'll probably just be Sticker Star 2 anyway.

Yes, because when developers release a single bad game they are forever cursed to continue releasing bad games for the rest of their existence.

 

[Kaisos]

Gaf has leveled up from complaining about games we havent played, to complaining about games we know nothing about. Great.

It's not hard to see what this game is going to be like, with what they said about Sticker Star.

I just want them to make the RPG they were making originally, even if Miyamoto calls it just a port of TTYD.

I mean, it probably did suck. But what we got was far worse.

Yes, because when developers release a single bad game they are forever cursed to continue releasing bad games for the rest of their existence.

Did you even read that interview? They seem very determined to continue releasing bad games henceforth.

 

[Fandangox]

Why da SPM hate yo

It was a great game.

While the story was fine it had many issues born out of the change of genre from RPG to Platformer with RPG elements.

*Too many dialogue breaks on a genre that is less favorable for it.

*FLOATY and slow as hell, for a platformer, it was very slow to play, reminded me of Kirby 64.

*RPG elements didn't really do much for it overall.

*Since it became a 2D platformer, some of the locales felt pretty simple as the 3D dimenson mechanic was used for puzzles.

It had some great ideas, but it ultimately was a very slow and flaoty platformer/scroller with pacing issues.

 

[Crayolan]

Did you even read that interview? They seem very determined to continue releasing bad games henceforth.

So they're apparently unable of changing their opinions or responding to fan feedback.

 

[Oddduck]

All you need to do is read this to know exactly how boring this game is going to be.

There aren't going to be any original characters, or any new settings, or anything. That's what Mario is like now.

Even if it plays more like a traditional Mario RPG, any sort of creativity or life is going to be sucked out of it, because I don't even know what the hell they're thinking. For a long time now, they've been having trouble understanding what their fans actually want.

It'll probably just be Sticker Star 2 anyway.

The part that cracks me up in that Sticker Star interview is this quote...

Well, as mentioned before, the mechanics present new challenges and the gameworld represents a new start. We worked hard so that this game would become the new standard for future Paper Mario games, so please play it to the fullest!

 

[Kaisos]

So they're apparently unable of changing their opinions or responding to fan feedback.

Given this?

Well, as mentioned before, the mechanics present new challenges and the gameworld represents a new start. We worked hard so that this game would become the new standard for future Paper Mario games, so please play it to the fullest!

Of course they're not going to change the direction they were going in, when they put so much effort into it. Besides, didn't the game do pretty well in Japan?

Face it, we're getting Sticker Star 2. Start being disappointed now, before it's too late and you hype yourself up over a big pile of nothing.

 

[also]

Gaf has leveled up from complaining about games we havent played, to complaining about games we know nothing about. Great.

Not to single you out, but I don't get these type of comments.
This is a speculation thread for an established series so of course we are going to predict what the game's going to be like based on the previous installments/comments from the devs/...

Sticker Star disappointed many and Paper Jam suffers from the same lack of original characters and story so naturally people are going to be pessimistic.
Maybe you could list why people should be blindly excited about it?

So they're apparently unable of changing their opinions or responding to fan feedback.

It was the best selling Paper Mario game in Japan so Japanese players must have been satisfied and that's the feedback they will listen to.

 

[DNAbro]

The part that cracks me up in that Sticker Star interview is this quote...

this one is mind blowing

Tanabe

Yeah. With regard to the story, we did a survey over the Super Paper Mario24 game in Club Nintendo25, and not even 1% said the story was interesting. A lot of people said that the Flip26 move for switching between the 3D and 2D dimensions was fun.

Story wasn't interesting so instead of trying to create an interesting story they just said fuck it. Gah I hope everyone slammed them in Club Nintendo post plays.

 

[brinstar]

Sticker Star disappointed many and Paper Jam suffers from the same lack of original characters and story so naturally people are going to be pessimistic.
Maybe you could list why people should be blindly excited about it?

A lack of original characters doesn't mean the game itself is going to be bad though. If we accept that they're not going to keep doing original characters in this title we could speculate on what else they could improve from the last few titles.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

I really hope it's Sticker Star 2.

 

[Joqu]

Not to single you out, but I don't get these type of comments.
This is a speculation thread for an established series so of course we are going to predict what the game's going to be like based on the previous installments/comments from the devs/...

Sticker Star disappointed many and Paper Jam suffers from the same lack of original characters and story so naturally people are going to be pessimistic.
Maybe you could list why people should be blindly excited about it?


It was the best selling Paper Mario game in Japan so Japanese players must have been satisfied and that's the feedback they will listen to.

"It was the lowest rated Paper Mario game on metacritic so critics must have been dissatisfied and that's the feedback they will to."

note: I don't believe in that statement but that's just to show how easy it is to say stuff like that. You don't know that.

 

[Pro from Dover]

More Paper Wario please.

 

[DNAbro]

A lack of original characters doesn't mean the game itself is going to be bad though. If we accept that they're not going to keep doing original characters in this title we could speculate on what else they could improve from the last few titles.

If they don't add original characters I am immediately less interested. Honestly the way they could improve it is just build off of TTYD. That's literally all they need to do.

 

[Simbabbad]

You hating it & a vocal minority on GAF...

How do you know it's a minority? Absolutely everybody I've talked to about it hated it in real life, which was confirmed at the store I sold my copy to, and the consensus before I went on GAF was the same. You have nothing that proves Sticker Star is more liked than disliked.

In any case, it has mind boggling issues I pointed at here, regardless even of the RPG/adventure game choice or the "only standard Mario stuff" choice, which I didn't even mind that much. It's just completely mechanically broken.

This being said, I'm very excited about this new game. I'll just wait and see.

 

[also]

"It was the lowest rated Paper Mario game on metacritic so critics must have been dissatisfied and that's the feedback they will to."

note: I don't believe in that statement but that's just to show how easy it is to say stuff like that. You don't know that.

Yes, I don't know that and really hope that I'm wrong but my statement is far more likely than yours. Has Nintendo, or rather their Japanese branch ever acknowledged metacritic?

A lack of original characters doesn't mean the game itself is going to be bad though. If we accept that they're not going to keep doing original characters in this title we could speculate on what else they could improve from the last few titles.

A lack of original characters and setting and story will mean that we will no longer get Paper Mario and M&L games and will instead just get Mario: The RPG and that is bad. The series have (had?) their own unique identity and I don't want them to lose it and become just two Mario spin-offs.

 

[Kaisos]

If they don't add original characters I am immediately less interested. Honestly the way they could improve it is just build off of TTYD. That's literally all they need to do.

From what that interview said, it sounds like the problem was that their prototype was lacking in any sort of originality.... so they.... decided to be even less original??

Let's hope they have enough good ideas by now that they can convince Miyamoto to let them do their own thing.

 

[Jonneh3003]

I'm surprised they haven't abandoned ship.

Whatever. Intelligent Systems hasn't made a great game in a long time.

Codename S.T.E.A.M and Pullblox World were stunning. Fire Emblem Fates it looks to be great too.

 

[fernoca]

In my case, I'm easily pleased by just a good use of the paper aesthetics and a chaming/cute/funny story. This one having that in HD is more than enough.

If they make a sequel to Thousand Year Door, great.

If they make a sequel to Super Paper Mario, great.

If they make a sequel to Sticker Star, great.

I tend to look at each Paper Mario as a different game. Guess none disappointed me because of that.

 

[Silent_Ocarina]

Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door is one of my all-time favorite games. Even so, I really loved Super Paper Mario. Even though it was very different than what I expected, I judged it based on its own merits. Sticker Star, however, was really disappointing. And that's not even because it's a "less enjoyable" Paper Mario. To me it's really just a less enjoyable game overall. The mechanics simply seemed poorly thought out. Really looking forward to the direction they take this new game.

 

[Wolfgang Jr]

Paper Lucario plz

 

[Xenoboy]

Why do people keep bringing up that the story of PM games are good?
SPM had a good story, the other ones not so much. They had charming writing though.

 

[Joqu]

Yes, I don't know that and really hope that I'm wrong but my statement is far more likely than yours. Has Nintendo, or rather their Japanese branch ever acknowledged metacritic?

I don't know about metacritic specifically, I really don't think so, but I'm sure they do pay attention to reviews to some degree. There's a pretty big gap between Sticker Star and previous entries that I'm sure they have taken note of. The question is if they feel like those reviews are an accurate representation of player's impressions of Sticker Star and if not if those were better or worse according to Nintendo.

And THAT clearly IS something they pay attention to. As you know that's why Sticker Star turned out the way it did. So yes, Sticker Star sold well but the question is how Nintendo feels the game was received by its customers. Super Paper Mario sold very well too but that clearly didn't mean future entries took on that formula.

But I don't know the answer to that question either. Reception of Sticker Star clearly wasn't too positive amongst the hardcore fanbase in the west but I've got no idea if that's true for Japan as well and I don't know if that's true for outside of the core fanbase either.

All I'm saying is that we shouldn't make too much assumptions about Nintendo's logic when it comes to all this because we really don't have much to go on that's relevant. That Iwata Asks interview came out around the time of SS's release and was part of the promotion of that game. Things could have changed since then. Or maybe they haven't. I don't know.

I love speculation but I do think it'd be much easier to wait until Nintendo reveals the game when it comes to speculation about the direction the series will take on from now on. We'll know soon enough.

We've only got Sticker Star to go on after all. And I definitely don't agree with drawing conclusions by including Paper Jam.

And for what it's worth they clearly did listen to how Dream Team was received when it comes to that game. But still. Different developers. I really wouldn't base too much on that game.

 

[Kaisos]

SPM had a good story, the other ones not so much. They had charming writing though.

To most people, that's the same thing. Stories are about how their characters are written.

 

[atbigelow]

Why do people keep bringing up that the story of PM games are good?
SPM had a good story, the other ones not so much. They had charming writing though.

I really liked the story in TYD. It wasn't full of twists and turns, but it was great not having Bowser as the villain. I think the Mario RPGs tend to be stronger the less involved Bowser is as the villain.

 

[DNAbro]

Why do people keep bringing up that the story of PM games are good?
SPM had a good story, the other ones not so much. They had charming writing though.

The overall story of TTYD isn't fantastic, but the individual chapters are amazing in location, originality, and characters. The great writing helps with this obviously. I can't think of any game with a section as original as the Glitz Pitz.

 

[Mory Dunz]

The part that cracks me up in that Sticker Star interview is this quote...

I didn't want to see this...lol.

 

[Neoxon]

Paper Lucario plz

The Pokémon Amiibos are barely used at all (& are half-assed whenever they are used), so I wouldn't get your hopes up. If Paper Mario U used Amiibos, we'd have a better chance at Paper Cloud than Paper Lucario.

 

[Mory Dunz]

I really liked the story in TYD. It wasn't full of twists and turns, but it was great not having Bowser as the villain. I think the Mario RPGs tend to be stronger the less involved Bowser is as the villain.

Yup, and it's pretty clear why.

If Bowser is the villain, there doens't have to any backstory or context. Everyone knows Bowser and what he wants to do. You basically have a game where the main enemy doesn't need any story time devoted to him/her.

If the enemy is original, they have to at least devote some time to explaining who it is, where they came from, what their motivations are, etc.

The second scenario is more likely to lead to good and interesting storytelling.

 

[Xaero Gravity]

The part that cracks me up in that Sticker Star interview is this quote...

Oh God, if that happens I'm so done with this series. Time to reserve my hype.

 

[Joqu]

For what it's worth in recent years Miyamoto has talked about getting younger staff more involved with projects he'd normally oversee in preparation for when he's no longer there.

I don't know what that'd mean for Paper Mario in particular but you don't see people discussing that much alongside the Miyamoto Sticker Star stuff.

Or rather just traditional role playing battles?

Anyway didn't Miyamoto say he was gonna stop interfering so much? Or did I imagine that?

So yeah, not concerning Paper Mario in particular but he did say something alongside those lines quite a while after Sticker Star was released.

 

[Xenoboy]

The overall story of TTYD isn't fantastic, but the individual chapters are amazing in location, originality, and characters. The great writing helps with this obviously. I can't think of any game with a section as original as the Glitz Pitz.

Yeah the individual chapters were fun, but the overarching plot in TTYD was really meh. The Shadow Queen stuff was just not needed, I think.

 

[Joqu]

Yeah the individual chapters were fun, but the overarching plot in TTYD was really meh. The Shadow Queen stuff was just not needed, I think.

I don't know about you but on the other hand I didn't think that particularly distracted from the experience. It's just there.

 

[maxcriden]

How do you know it's a minority? Absolutely everybody I've talked to about it hated it in real life, which was confirmed at the store I sold my copy to, and the consensus before I went on GAF was the same. You have nothing that proves Sticker Star is more liked than disliked.

In any case, it has mind boggling issues I pointed at here, regardless even of the RPG/adventure game choice or the "only standard Mario stuff" choice, which I didn't even mind that much. It's just completely mechanically broken.

This being said, I'm very excited about this new game. I'll just wait and see.

I know the internet, especially when up in arms, typically represents a minority and even if indicative of a majority opinion can only ever tell us how that specific subset of people feels. You have anecdotal evidence and so do I. I don't agree it's mechanically broken but I understand I won't change your mind. My only point is that with it selling as well as it did, and our inability to know what Nintendo's market research (via Club Nintendo) told them about what players thought of the game, we just really do not know if they see it as poorly received by the fans. I hope that makes sense and I'm not at all trying to disparage your opinion, just to point out that we don't know what people in general thought of the game, we only know how well it sold. Like you, I hope this new PM is something fresh that appeals to as many fans as possible, you and I included.

 

[Litri]

I personally think Nintendo will not deviate much from what was done in the Wii and GCN iterations, but as long as gamepad is usefully integrated we will be winning something + we haven't touched on which graphic style Nintendo will bring to the table with this game. I get really intrigued seeing what Nintendo did with other franchises and I think it could end up looking really great.

 

[jnWake]

Gaf has leveled up from complaining about games we havent played, to complaining about games we know nothing about. Great.

Complaining about rumoured games based on fan speculation (nothing from the sources). Amazing.

 

[JCH!]

TTYD is GOAT material in my opinion. It would be awesome if we could get another, proper, Paper Mario like that one.

But beggars can most definitely not be choosers and I didn't expect an unannounced Wii U game this year with all the talk of NX happening soon, so I'm pretty happy.

 

[Simbabbad]

just to point out that we don't know what people in general thought of the game

Apparently you do know since you label people unhappy about the game "a vocal minority". That mechanically means the people happy about it (like you are) are a majority, isn't it? So please don't try to pretend you said otherwise.

You actually answered to me I was among "a vocal minority" precisely when I pointed in my post that we couldn't be sure, since sales do not imply people being happy, it implies people being happy in the series so far or confident in its quality, and trying the latest episode. Also, marketing and user base, are we really comparing 3DS user base and GameCube user base?

Look, I get it: you're excited about a new Paper Mario and this thread is a negativity mess, so you're defending the series. But there are tons of legitimate reasons to despise Sticker Star, and I'm not even talking about it changing the formula or not featuring new characters.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Is Paper Jam a good game aside from the lack of original characters?

I feel like that's literally everything I've heard about the game.

 

[Joqu]

Is Paper Jam a good game aside from the lack of original characters?

I feel like that's literally everything I've heard about the game.

Well, at the very least it adressed the tutorial issues people had with Dream Team from what I hear.

Haven't played it yet.