Fire Emblem Fates' localization doesn't have the petting minigame
- Thread starter kulapik
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Look, it's alright to not like elements of a game, but I think the idea that any element that might increase sales which one might find personally usavory, was added at the behest of some bean-counter completely detached from whatever artistic integrity a game might have is a terrible double standard. .
Liberation Maiden is the only other game I know he did designs in that comes to mind.
I guess he did the designs for the VN of Liberation Maiden Sin as well, not sure.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Every time I think that I've gotten over this, someone has to come along and remind me. Dammit Horizon.
I try to forget that Senri Kita was the one who did the Marth design in FE: Awakening. It's was so not great =/
She will never die as long as we never forget!
Eiji Kaneda (6/7) did Sword Arm Ike. Her Marth was good enough, Sword Arm Ike is up there with Micaiah's dlc art as complete abominations. I think Kita's Chrom is awful, but I think her two new cipher Ike's are the best that she's ever done.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
How about instead of Fire Emblem dying off, it's you instead that stops being a fan while the series can go marching on? So it's a win for everybody. Just go away from Fire Emblem then if you hate how "tarnished" it has become; no one would cry for one less Cow Mengde amongst the Fire Emblem fans but there sure be lots of people really sad if the series dies off.
Crash Station
Member
There's both LGBT people and non-LGBT people that have seen the conversation that would not consider it gay conversion therapy, including a mod. It's right in the other thread.
I completely understand the issues with Soleil for LGBT audiences because there are aspects of her that rely on the disgusting Japanese trope of lesbians "growing out of it". I even understand the more problematic interpretations of the conversation, but gay conversion therapy isn't it.
I'll respect everyone's interpretation of the scene out there, but I would hope they've actually played the game or seen the conversation. The arguments I've heard for it being homophobic make sense. The arguments I've heard for it being not homophobic make sense. The arguments I've heard for it being gay conversion therapy do not make sense.
I apologize if I'm coming off as insensitive here. It's not my intention. I'm just not a fan of the spreading of misinformation, and everyone that has played the game (including the ones that do see several problems with Soleil's portrayal) have said it was not reported correctly.
charlequin
Banned
Well, I mean, this belief is not really supportable, so if you intend to be a consumer of products that originate in other languages you may want to consider how you can soften it. The act of translation is, fundamentally and unavoidably, an act of destruction and creation, giving people something that is not the same as the original work, but rather a melding of that work with another person or team's creative agency; the decision to cut this feature isn't fundamentally different except in scope from rewriting a line in the script or changing color symbolism to match what's familiar to the audience.
Right, I mean.... this is completely unambiguous to someone who's looking at the situation with open eyes. There's a routine that's common in Japanese media, thanks to the somewhat unusual and specific views on homosexuality, where someone is coded as gay (often to the point of intense stereotyping) and primarily written as gay, but then given some ludicrous fig leaf like this one, or like Kanji's incomprehensible "masculinity" thing in Persona 4 -- because gay behavior is seen as funny, but actual serious homosexuality is something that can't exist.
Taking these excuses at face value is not really a reasonable choice because they exist solely as a way to excuse gay characters from "actually" being gay, just like similar things in many older forms of English-language media. These characters are gay, in any meaningful sense of the word, and then pre-censored by their creators to meet the specific sensibilities of their primary audience. When you interpret them the way that any reasonable, general audience would when presented with the material, their portrayal becomes extremely inappropriate and it's very much right to correct this in some way during the localization process.
Oh.
Then in that case I think only 1 and 2 were bad.
In fact, I think the FE3-5 portrait artstyle looks better than Shadow Dragon's (not as good technically of course) but then again I enjoy my 80's/90's anime art.
Stop liking what I don't like! That post has to be one of the most selfish and idiotic things I have ever read.
LumpOfCole
Member
Rubbing faces is weird and creepy (in Fates' context, I would say it's 80% weird and 20% creepy), but I think that Awakening's mating a what is drawn to be a young child girl with the "I'm really a 1,000 year old dragon!" 'justification' is way, way creepier than any amount of face rubbing.
Vincent Grayson
Member
Oh, I totally missed that #FE had already released in Japan.
Bumbletron
Member
I don't dislike it, honestly. I don't care about it one way or another. I had the game preordered expecting that it would probably be in there, and I was fine with that. I probably would have played it, laughed at it a bit and moved on. I just feel like saying that 'things are removed by corporate middlemen' is wrong if you don't also acknowledge that those same middlemen are responsible for some of those very things being there to begin with. As far as the skinship goes, I'm honestly not as jaded as I'm making myself out to be. I'm just trying to prove that point. I appreciate your having this discussion with me though!
Crash Station
Member
Kanji's insecurities were completely based on Japan's strict gender norms. Was it a missed opportunity to not actually make him gay? Sure, but mentally weak people being confused about their sexuality due to external factors is a very real thing and a very valid conflict for a character arc. It's the same with Naoto not being trans as she identifies as a girl but didn't like society's assigning of gender roles (why can't a woman be a detective mostly).
Worst part about Persona 4 on this topic is Yosuke being a homophobic douche.
Nightengale
Member
My personal views on all this is just that I don't like to immediately associate anything that is done within the confines of the game and creative design to have been some "middle man" assumption, and not the devs themselves.
Sometimes I think it's good to just accept that Japanese designers and storytellers have different inclinations to many things and not be overly cynical of everything they do that are seen here as "less than appropriate."
It would actually be quite humorous if it's the case that middlemen in Japan pushed it in there and middlemen in the US pushed it out.
Remove the prompt to touch them to trigger conversation, same way Barracks works in Awakening but with actual Live2D models rather than 2D artwork. You bring them into "Private Quarters", maybe they make a face or emote, and there is a dialogue that occurs rather than having to rub them to get said dialogue/emote. Its not really that difficult to see how this would work, and so far I see more indication of "skinship" only being cut not everything (as mechanics are shown to disagree with the "all out" scenario).
It could even keep all of the more lewd "S" support pieces if they felt inclined/VAs were willing to record.
........Except loads of Japanese fans have reported the gay conversion thing. It's right in the other thread. People have this view of it for a reason.
We've seen the conversation. We feel the way we do about it because that's what is right there.
Addressing Kanji and Naoto is a whole can of worms.
I will agree quite a bit on Yosuke however. I hate that character quite a bit. He's also pretty misogynistic and he really doesn't change at all in the course of the plot. I also didn't like Junpei either because of how misogynistic he was with the female protag in P3P. He did eventually change his ways but that took a very long time. The "bro" character archetype in the recent Personas just hasn't sat well for me.
And really the Persona series already addressed trans issues (albeit in a subtle manner) with P2:IS. There's an npc with an overarching plot if you talk to them often enough that consists of them explicitly expressing trans thoughts. That handled the subject matter better than some games have and it's barely even in the game. I do wish more games addressed trans issues however and did so in a healthy manner.
Bumbletron
Member
And like I was saying, honestly, I feel exactly the same way. I also feel the same understanding and leeway should be given to the localizers, however. Especially if they are in house localizers. And that is something I feel should be a bit more prevalent. Because, just as Japanese designers have their ways, American designers have their own. The localizers have the terrible job of trying to bring us the closest thing to the core experience the Japanese players had while still making it marketable to a substantial portion of the Western market, including many who don't/wouldn't care to understand the cultural differences.
That was the whole reason I brought up the theoretical argument. Because if that was both the case and we all knew about it, this whole discussion would be entirely different.
I found Junpei to be much more bear-able. Especially with the character development about 2/3rds of the way in. He definitely grew on me, and grew as a person throughout the game. Yosuke had his arc and 'change' much too soon and had no way to grow after the first 20 minutes. He was a throwaway character for me. Plus, just look at this derpy face.
Crash Station
Member
If literally the only exclusion is actually tapping the touch-screen, I'd be 100% fine with this.
If it's just the touching that was removed I'd be OK with that. The models are just too good to just remove. Hopefully that is the case.
We won't know until more information is out but right now all information we have (Jose IGN, Kotaku, Polygon) is that the minigame is out specifically. But something has clearly replaced it mechanically because of the remaining "!" prompt unless we're to believe that NoA stripped out everything but forgot to remove the indicator.
Thank god.
I want the game to only include content that is specifically tailored to what Nintendo's localization team thinks the delicate sensibilities of my western demographic can handle, optional or not. I never want to be presented with anything outside of my comfort zone or anything that could possibly strike me as unfamiliar or foreign and remind me that there are other people around the world that hold different views than those that I've been indoctrinated with since childhood.
While we're on the topic, I find muted orange hues slightly uncomfortable to look at. Please consider removing orange colors from the game, Nintendo.
I want the game to only include content that is specifically tailored to what Nintendo's localization team thinks the delicate sensibilities of my western demographic can handle, optional or not. I never want to be presented with anything outside of my comfort zone or anything that could possibly strike me as unfamiliar or foreign and remind me that there are other people around the world that hold different views than those that I've been indoctrinated with since childhood.
While we're on the topic, I find muted orange hues slightly uncomfortable to look at. Please consider removing orange colors from the game, Nintendo.
Seriously though, how can anyone celebrate optional content being cut from a game because of localization? Are people embarrassed by it? I would blame marketing people for defining what is to be considered acceptable for sales, but marketing is only ever a reflection of the real issue.
"You know, Yosuke, we really are Dancing All Night."
What? It doesn't sound like that at all.
There is actually a guy somewhere in this thread who is happy that now he can play Fire Emblem "in front of people" or something like that without being embarrassed.
Bumbletron
Member
"He always tries to put in everything that will make players love the characters even more."
While I was trying to play devil's advocate with my jade colored glasses on, it seemed like something someone might have taken advantage of. That's all.
^Yeah, I'm really not seeing it. Like, not even a little.
I think the distinction between altering text and other language-based content and removing/changing graphic assets or gameplay features is abundantly clear in the majority of cases.
I think the distinction between altering text and other language-based content and removing/changing graphic assets or gameplay features is abundantly clear in the majority of cases.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
You're just jealous of how cool his style is.
I found Junpei to be much more bear-able. Especially with the character development about 2/3rds of the way in. He definitely grew on me, and grew as a person throughout the game. Yosuke had his arc and 'change' much too soon and had no way to grow after the first 20 minutes. He was a throwaway character for me. Plus, just look at this derpy face.
Oh you @ the bolded.
That said, I agree. Junpei was better than Yosuke....I still didn't like how misogynistic he was (for those who are unaware, he literally says girls can't be leaders and is adamant about it for the longest time with the female protag in P3P) but he was a better overall character and did eventually change his ways/develop.
In comparison, I'm not sure if I would even say Yosuke changed. At least we got that derp face!
"We are the demons, Yosuke"
Bumbletron
Member
I didn't realize it at first but yosuke has a really long neck doesn't he.
Guys we'll just have to wait until it's fully clarified then.
Secret cut content from Persona 4, the truth they don't want you to reach-out for is finally revealed!
Damn, how did you know?
Swagsuke.
GamingBird
Member
How about removing the petting stylus game only but leaving the convos via Live2D mode intact?
Don't characters say something to you before and at the end of the petting mode?
I am correct?
Don't characters say something to you before and at the end of the petting mode?
I am correct?
Crash Station
Member
In that case, I apologize and will look into the arguments for it being gay conversion therapy more.
It is, but I do think forcing them into an LGBT role undermines their character arcs, even if you don't particularly agree with the missed opportunity that would have pushed their arcs in a different direction. It's the same thing with a certain character in Danganronpa.
I still sympathized with Yosuke because he had his own insecurities to work out, and really his issue is damn fascinating and super under-used throughout the plot because it's done and over with so quickly. Many seem to gloss over that if the shadow was even remotely being truthful, that would mean Yosuke has the traits of a sociopath, at least some.
It was just the homophobic remark on the camp trip that rubbed me the wrong way, and MC/Narukami going along with it was similarly disappointing.
Anyway, despite some of his more problematic views, I don't think he deserved half the shit the girls did to him that was played completely for laughs (moreso in Golden), especially when most of that happened relatively closely to his crush being murdered horribly.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
inb4 avatar quoteDamn, how did you know?
Crash Station
Member
Crash Station
Member
Charlequin's fault.
Bumbletron
Member
What if, in order to keep the models and not throw that money down the drain, they turned the scenes into VN-lite sections where you actually talk to the characters by selecting from a few dialogue choices? Wouldn't that make everyone happy? I'd think we'd all appreciate that more than tapping on their face a few times.
We all have opinions, but we remain united against Yosuke.
We all have opinions, but we remain united against Yosuke.
Dialogue options was something I was thinking of too. Some kind of little trivia quiz about the character would make for some neat bonding.
BUT I don't want to get my hope up for something like that.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
Poor expensive Yosuke
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
People hating on Brosuke is the norm now?
Crash Station
Member
Sure, but that seems like a lot of work for Treehouse. Wouldn't they have to play around with menu placement and basically reprogram the whole thing?
Not that I know a thing about programming, but it doesn't sound like something you can just do in an afternoon, but maybe you can.
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