Microsoft Releasing Exclusive Games on PC Is Great for Xbox Owners
- Thread starter dancrane212
- Start date
My assumption differ in details:
Console will continue to exist, this move hurts MS portion of that pie some amount.
PC games would be sold, now MS will sell more here.
MS see's no upside to more people on the PC due to fierce competition so only has a direct sale of their games upside.
You're asserting that it won't affect XB1 sales and there is some future upside to their brand on PC. I'm disputing both those assertion and it's why we have different conclusions.
again, you ignore that Xbox one sales are were never where the money is made. You also ignore the fact that the people who would see this as a reason to skip Xbox consoles werent generating licensing revenue.
How can you suggest that there is no upside on PC when publishers in similar positions on PC (ea, Ubisoft) have carved out plenty of success with less leverage.
It's the licencing within the console.
A sale of a console = profit on the machine + their cut of licencing of future title sales.
Really, I don't see a compelling counter point from you other than 'I don't believe this shit'.
Almost all the counter points is the belief in some PC market upside aside from direct sales of the games to make up for the lost of a portion of future XB1 sales. I dispute that exists for MS.
Beerman462
Member
Yeah not worth it anymore. He thinks MS is going leave the console market where they have at least a 25% probably closer to 30% market share(Xbox One) to full store front where they have practically zero.
Bits N Pieces
Member
This is just one big humongous circle.
Round and round and round we go, where we'll end up - nobody knows
Round and round and round we go, where we'll end up - nobody knows
I'm ignoring nothing, just disputing your assumptions.
XB1 machine sales is somewhat profitable, licencing for the system is the reason MS is there since the other over aching reaosn failed (control the home computing market). If the money off that isn't that great then they will back out of the console market. This move is congruent with that.
Ubisoft and EA just didn't want to let Valve in control the entire market place. This is why they made uplay and Origin and neither are direct competition to steam.
To be exact I'm saying after the XB1 they won't try again because the capital they needed to invest to get their portion of the market isn't worth the opportunity cost to them.
This is just one big humongous circle.
Round and round and round we go, where we'll end up - nobody knows
That's true. I'm saying the same damn thing based off the same obvious data and getting the same response which sums up to 'I don't believe your take but I got nothing else to say'.
How many times does it have to be said?... The type of gamer who is losing incentive to buy Xbox isn't the gamer who would by 3rd parties on Xbox. so There is no licensing $ lost here. Only software sales gained... And they get 100% of the profit on these sales.
vcc said:
Who cares why they made Uplay and Origin. Irrelevant to the discussion. The business cases for UPlay and Origin are essentially identical to that for Xbox games on the Win 10 store. A massive catalog of highly sought after games, that can't be purchased on any other storefront. there's no reason MS won't see similar levels of success if not more success given their ability to push the Windows store before all Windows users.
Beerman462
Member
I think your wrong on that point. I think 30% market share is more then enough incentive. Especially with the opportunity to get people into your market place. They won't spend a bunch of money on a new Kinect or updating the controller, but we will get another Xbox.
Nah you ignore the things you want and believe your position as an analyst some how makes your arguments hold more weight. Hint they don't. You seem to think MS is giving up licensing even though everyone has told why they aren't, but you don't try to disprove it you just keep spouting the same points over and over. Maybe tell us why releasing exclusives to their store on the PC loses them licensing when the people that bought an Xbox for it's exclusives only aren't buying third party game there anyway. Tell us the circumstances where someone now skips the Xbox as a primary platform for the PC.
Bitch Pudding
Member
Yeah, here is a summary of the reactions to this announcement:
- great for PC owners!
- no need for me buying an XBOX One anmore!
- would buy for PC but not Windows store / only Steam!
- finally a reason to upgrade my rig!
- doesn't change anything!
- why on earth did I buy an XBOX One?
I read this comments here on NeoGAF, on some foreign boards, twitter and so on. So yes, this thing is discussed almost everywhere, it's not just a topic for some freaks who only like to post their opinion about games in message boards but cannot be bothered to actually play those games.
But although I read quite a couple of articles on that topic, I wasn't able to find a single comment saying "great, NOW I buy an XBOX One!". Right now the story being told is that the only reason to go with XBOX One is either convenience or price. And with all due of respect, that's not enough to compete with PS4 and NX and their strong library of (true) exclusive games.
Some people here realize that their beloved platform might (!) go down the tube because of that and state their concern, others are still in a state of denial, hoping for some positive effects in the future. And yet some others directly went to insulting critical voices for not being able to understanding the wonderful new vision from Redmond.
Yet after 40 pages of discussion, they were not able to deliver a single comprehensive argument for their line of thinking.
So look at what that means for the big picture and where they're valuing their capital. That's the step you're not taking. It means as I stated, it's likely the XB1 will be their last console. Because the ROI for being #1 is too high and the profit off being #2 is bad. For MS, they make a better ROI is almost everything else they do. So why would they try again when they've failed at their goals 3 times now. Members of their board has publically questioned why they are a platform holder. This move is not a positive one for their platform. Seems like they won't try again.
You mean like games for windows live. That' really worked out?
Nah, your just missing the point.
MS can now get people to buy into the Xbox brand without buying a $300 box.
The box sale becomes irrelevant if you are using the Win10 store to buy the game anyway.
There are plenty of comprehensive comments in this thread, not arguments, because there's nothing to argue about. The Xbox platform (across console and PC) will have more users, and Xbox software will have more sales, now that Xbox titles and features will be sold in the Windows store. There's no way around it.
I don't think anyone in this thread argues that this news will sell consoles... The fact of the matter is, the console is no longer the only way to access the customer.
The PS2 era has a 3%-4% total ROI for Sony (being #1, best install base ever). That's isn't enough money for MS. Everything else they do has a much better ROI. Office is insanely better than that. Azure is insanely better than that. MS OS has a much better ROI. So given their options of where to spend their capital, there just isn't a compelling reason for them to remain a platform holder in this business.
Sony will stay because they have fewer options. Insurance is their only better ROI and essentially by revenue Sony is a insurance company that uses their other brands to stay relevant. If the PS4 failed in the same way, they likely would be a Music/Movie/Insurance company only.
Nintendo only does one thing.
MS has many more options. The new sexy for them is Azure and cloud services. XB doesn't seem to fit within that.
This is why I believe there will not be a XB2 (XB10).
I predict 2/25 will go like... Spencer gets up on stage.
(watch some Spencer speeches for the wording style)
"Just over two years ago. We introduced. The Xbox One. Which. In the world of gaming. Has been transformative. Today. We are introducing a new Xbox (hold for audience's WTF?). One that will transform gaming. In ways. That were never thought possible. Before today."
Zoom into a montage of Gears 4, Crackdown 3, Recore, Forza 6, Forza Motorsport, Recore. Quantum Break. Zoom out. It's the Xbox app on Windows 10.
(Microsoft employee shills in front row burst into applause. Phil nods his head "yes" and smirks over an awkward one minute's time)
"That's right. The new Xbox. Is Windows 10. When you think Xbox. Think Windows 10. When you think Windows 10. Think Xbox"
(more applause)
(watch some Spencer speeches for the wording style)
"Just over two years ago. We introduced. The Xbox One. Which. In the world of gaming. Has been transformative. Today. We are introducing a new Xbox (hold for audience's WTF?). One that will transform gaming. In ways. That were never thought possible. Before today."
Zoom into a montage of Gears 4, Crackdown 3, Recore, Forza 6, Forza Motorsport, Recore. Quantum Break. Zoom out. It's the Xbox app on Windows 10.
(Microsoft employee shills in front row burst into applause. Phil nods his head "yes" and smirks over an awkward one minute's time)
"That's right. The new Xbox. Is Windows 10. When you think Xbox. Think Windows 10. When you think Windows 10. Think Xbox"
(more applause)
vcc said:
Again your looking at it was ever their goal to profit from console hardware. Their goal is to profit from software and service sales. Structuring their Xbox platform in this way provides that more opportunity to profit than they've ever had.
vcc said:
I don't mean like game for windows live at all... Really what are you even talking about? I mean like origin and Uplay... As I've clearly stated in the comment that you quoted. Store fronts that carved out a massively profitable niches on PC by offering highly sought after exclusive titles.
Where did I suggest that they'd be trying to charge for online multiplayer? Or force outside developers to use their platform exclusively?
ROI is very different nowadays on consoles since the manufacturers aren't selling the machines at a loss and they get income from services like PS+ and Xbox Live Gold. The ROI isn't great compared to something like Office, but its definitely better then when they lost money on every console sold.
Really simple, they will lose some portion of future xb1 sales because those sales were to people with a PC. They will lose out on the profit per box and associated lifetime licencing revenue of that specific sale.
MS has made the decision that gaining the sales of their games on PC is worth more than the potential decline in sales of their console.
Project out of the implications of that.
Online services also demand more capital to get it started and to maintain which will influence the ROI. The % they get from digital game sales is also better but Gaming has always been fairly low margin compared to what else MS also did.
The other over arching goal is gone too. They can't control home computing by owning gaming and the PC. Tablets and smart phones destroyed that objective. That over arching goal was why they got into gaming in the first place. Without it it's just a low ROI business.
I literally said that point in 3 short sentences. That literal point.
Beerman462
Member
PS2 was over engineered just like the PS3 and Xbox360.
The Xbox One was drug down by Kinect and to a smaller degree the controller. By the time a new Xbox is ready HMB and sub 20nm chips will be stabilized. They can put out a decently powered box without breaking the bank.
We will have to agree to disagree on this.
I think releasing the games is good and fits with their plan to integrate their store across the entire Windows platform. You see it as a sign they are exiting the console business. We will not agree on these points.
I know about the concerns about the Xbox program in the past but they just got new leadership and refocused on the Xbox recently. I haven't seen anything recently concerning this. I tried. If you have more recent information please share.
staticneuron
Member
Very good post.
Consoles wouldn't exist if the pubs didn't make healthy profits off of licensing. Why would sony and MS be a loss leader? Why would they spend so much only for little profit.
The point you are not getting with your analogy before is licensing cost.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2006/05/06/the-economics-of-game-publishing
So lets break this down
On the PC, Steam is selling Tomb Raider
On XB1 there is Tomb Raider + Halo (owned by MS) on sale.
I only buy Tomb Raider from Steam (MS sees no money from this)
I only buy Halo from XB1 (MS gains money from this)
I also buy Tomb Raider on XB1 (MS receives royalties)
10 days later
On PC, Steam has Tomb Raider , and the Win10 store has Halo
XB1 sells Tomb Raider and Halo
I buy Tomb Raider on steam and Halo from win10 store
I stop going to Store B.
Ms still get money from sale of halo but no longer gets royalty from Tomb Raider.
So again to put it simply and succinctly every game sold on the XB1 (third or first party) nets MS money.
On the PC, only if games are sold through win 10 store and first party games will net MS profit. Physical sales or Digital sales made by Steam, Origin, Uplay or any other marketplace that sells third party software MS doesn't see money from. How can anyone who is a fan of MS see that as a good thing? What does this do to the XB1 ecosystem if people STOP purchasing games on XB1 or decide not to purchase the console in hopes games go to PC? You have a situation that killed the dreamcast. Reduced software sales on XB1, MS is going to either have to make that money up in other means or they will drop the brand. They are logical, and historically not known for bleeding cash for no reason.
Look at my example above.
I think that is all, we differ in interpretation.
Aside form the uncharacteristic public share holder opinions in the past there is no new information except this big shift in first party strategy.
I think it will make MS more money; I just think it means a big re-evaluation on how they think about the XB brand.
Let me clarify . You have yet to explain how a PC gamer, who doesn't even buy 3rd party games on console, amounts to lost licensing.
Edit: ok so your whole argument revolves around the idea that people will stop buying 3rd party games on Xbox..
Even though the people who might now decide not to buy Xbox hardware weren't even the people buying 3rd party titles from MS in the first place AND the people who currently use their Xbox for 1st and 3rd party have NO reason to stop doing so...
You make no sense what so ever.
PC gamers were going to choose the Steam version of TombRaider anyway. So again, How does MS selling 1st party titles on PC net them lost licensing $?
You also fail to explain why MS can't leverage their catalog to achieve Origin/Uplay levels of success in the near term PC market... And when/if they unify their Win10 and Xbox stores, compile a catalog of 1st and 3rd party titles that will be attractive to PC users in the long term.
Hahaha... okay.
Or, you know... (still) being able to play games that aren't on the PS4 or Wii U if you are only a console gamer.
I'm amazed that some of you keep on bringing up Nintendo considering their current position in the console gaming market. Yeah, Nintendo has exclusives (a ton of them) but sales are showing that console gamers simply want good, popular games to play whether exclusive or not.
Microsoft is already in a far better position than Nintendo and what they can do with the NX because Microsoft has far more third party support and console gamers view the Xbox as more of an overall core gaming brand than Nintendo (whether Nintendo has more exclusives or not).
In terms of the PS4, the PS4 has sold more thanks to games like Watchdogs, Destiny, COD, Star Wars, FIFA, and NBA 2K vs. any true 1st party PS4 exclusive. Again, exclusives help but console gamers simply want many games to play period. Since most console gamers only care about console gaming, a game that's only on one console and PC will still be seen as an exclusive to them since they do not care about PC.
"State of denial"? So actually having a grasp of how general console gamers/consumers are is "denial"?
You say this as if it's impossible for people to continue on denying facts (no matter how clear they are) simply because they don't like them.
The evidence is clear that the majority of console gamers don't not care about PC gaming based on console sales being pushed the most by games that are also available on PC, and the evidence is also clear that the majority of people would rather have a bunch of good, popular games to play on their console (whether exclusive or not) than a bunch of exclusives that aren't very popular... hence the sales of the Wii U.
A person who wants to deny this is the one who has the problem; Not the person who is stating it.
staticneuron
Member
You have yet to explain why a PC gamer would purchase a console if the first party title is available on PC and that is the only thing they are willing to play. That point of view is moot from the start.
This isn't about gamers who were only willing to purchase first party titles. When you look at tie ratio's for the past few generations, it never seems like people who purchase consoles only play first party and ignore third parties not even nintendo.
This is really simple. That is because people who purchase games on console haven't been given a reason to give up on console. If both MS and Sony started releasing their first party exclusives on PC's and state they are going to do so well into the future do you honestly believe people will continue purchasing consoles? Why would they? They can use the money they were going to spend and put it to wards a PC, even a gaming rig or a prebuilt like alienware alpha. PC's have no additional yearly fees to play and socialize online or closed stores. In addition they are upgradable and generally run the same games at a higher fidelity.
The only thing you are actually seeing is people purchase third party games out of convenience not a true desire or believe that they must only do so on a console.
This is just one big humongous circle.
Round and round and round we go, where we'll end up - nobody knows
Yep, I'm done now. Tiring of saying the same thing over and over haha.
Not sure how people can feel that they have a solid view of the console gaming market but yet state "issues" that the majority of mainstream/regular console gamers couldn't care less about.
I'm just watching this thread now. Look at my past responses to get an answer.
therealbigrich
Member
I do agree this wont help Xbox one boom in sales as I also have not seen anyone say "great , now I buy an Xbox one " I just don't think it will make sales of Xbox one plummet either. Not that you are suggesting that I just believe in the case that the effect seems minimal for X1 it makes sense to try and make themselves more lucrative.
As for your last point you have to understand since not everyone is in the same situation you will get multiple accounts of whether this is a good thing or bad .
xxx shiv xxx
Member
I find this all very interesting. I have no system at the moment and have been going back and forth over the past week or so trying to decide if I want to get back into the PS4 or XB1. I haven't had a gaming pc in about 4 years or so. This is making me actually considering building one. You'd have great versions of some great 3rd party games (The division, Battlefield, etc. Would still have a bigger player base for COD and such on consoles) and then the benefit of be able to play improved versions of first party XB titles. Hmmm.
The CEO said he would use Xbox first-party and Live to drive Windows preferences and revenue last summer. It's clear he's not thinking about it as a console business any more, but rather how it helps Windows.
Nadella said he had only three products: Azure, Windows, and Office, with everything else as parts or features of those things to help drive consumers preferences for those three products. In other words, Xbox isn't its own business any more. It's not a console business, it's not a PC business; it's a Windows Platform feature.
NumberThree
Member
PC only, no first party exclusives on PC:
- Buys Tomb Raider on Steam (no money to MS)
PC + XBOne, no exclusives on PC:
- Buys Tomb Raider on Steam (no money to MS), Halo on Xbox (all money to MS)
PC only, exclusives on PC:
- Buys Tomb Raider on Steam (no money to MS), Halo on Win10 store (all money to MS)
PC + XBOne, exclusives on PC:
- Tomb Raider on Steam (no money to MS), Halo on Win10 store (all money to MS)
Microsoft doesn't get any more money from this person if they don't release Halo on Windows (assuming console is sold at cost). This is why having PC gamers buy an Xbox One for exclusives isn't a profit for MS.
That's the thing. I haven't explained that because that isn't part of my argument. My argument is that by removing the need for PC gamers to buy an Xbox in order to participate in the Xbox ecosystem, MS will have more people in the Xbox ecosystem. The sale of a console to that customer is no longer neccisary.
Killer Instinct, for example, will have more players on Xbox live than ever before. How is that bad for anyone?
staticneuron said:
Seriously, if you are the type of person who would only by exclusives on xb1, MS wasn't making money off of you anyway. It's better for you AND them if you buy those same games directly from the Windows store.
You, like the person I was originally talking to, are way to focused on the hardware, instead of the platform.
The Xbox one was just one way of selling games and services. Now MS has a second way to sell those same games and services, and tie customers on Xbox and PC into the same ecosystem...
It's no longer just about selling xbox games on Xbox one, with your success gated by the consoles market penetration. Now it becomes Selling Xbox games on PC and Xbox one. Your installed base now includes people from both walks.
To Far Away Times
Member
Games as a service vs games as a platform.
MS has been wading in the pool for a while now, this is just a bigger push.
The end goal is propping up the Windows Store and eventually having that become the Steam of PC media.
Quite frankly, from a buisness perspective it's a better goal, and one with much better ROI.
That being said I don't think this is really going to affect the future of the Xbox One all that much. I don't think Console and PC gaming overlap as much as it seems. When/if there's a Nextbox we'll see. It might end up being a media center PC, and it would play games from the Windows Store. (Essentially locking the minimum requirements for PC games for a limited time.)
MS has been wading in the pool for a while now, this is just a bigger push.
The end goal is propping up the Windows Store and eventually having that become the Steam of PC media.
Quite frankly, from a buisness perspective it's a better goal, and one with much better ROI.
That being said I don't think this is really going to affect the future of the Xbox One all that much. I don't think Console and PC gaming overlap as much as it seems. When/if there's a Nextbox we'll see. It might end up being a media center PC, and it would play games from the Windows Store. (Essentially locking the minimum requirements for PC games for a limited time.)
Bitch Pudding
Member
I don't think it will have a significant negative impact on XBOX One sales as well. I mean, we all know XBOX One will face a hard time in 2016 either way, and I mean that compared to it's very own predecessor.
I was referring to the XBOX brand future, which doesn't necessarily include a new XBOX home console.
Swass
Member
How niche is this segment of people that you continue bringing up? And how likely is someone to buy a 3rd party title for the Xbox if they own one? 100% more likely than someone buying one if they don't.
And this isn't the days of loss leading consoles.. they are making money on consoles sold, it may not be a lot, but they aren't losing. And having the box in someone's house means you have a customer built in.. someone who will buy Xbox Gold and someone who will buy software for it which means royalties for you. On a PC there is no Gold and there is nothing forcing 3rd party software sold to go through your store and you get no money at retail. Lots of potential money left on the table.
Beerman462
Member
This entire topic is dealing with niche groups. We are arguing about a group that can afford a gaming PC and an Xbox and whether or not MS will make more money from them buying 3rd party titles occasionally or from people who primarily game on PC and are interested enough MS exclusives just not interested enough to buy an Xbox.
It's crazy to think that either of these small groups have anything to do with gaming at large. If people really wanted an Xbox they probably already have it. I suppose there could be a small percentage of people that see this and say it's a good time to drop Xbox and go PC. Maybe they were going to do it anyway for third party in which case MS lost that licensing money already.
I think a vast majority chose Xbox over PS4 because of exclusives not over PC. These people have no interest in a PC.
OsirisBlack
Banned
The only problem with MS releasing their "Exclusive" XB1 games on PC is that some people who already had good gaming PCs brought XB1s thinking that certain games would only be available to them there. Having gotten an XB1 day one I can see how this purchase is now largely redundant. Its not a big deal for me but I can see how others might be pissed.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Sorry for the long wait ...Exactly this thread is just pure speculation and argument I know that it stopped my brother from getting one some other people will probably have the opposite speech I just don't think the positive point outweight the negative points for Xbox owners.
As a PC gamer this is great.
I think there will be another Xbox, but it's going to be an MS branded Windows 10/11 small form factor pc.
People who only buy consoles for exclusives... Are only gonna buy exclusives. So counting them as a lost licensing opportunity makes no sense.
People who buy consoles because that's how they prefer to play, will not have their preference altered by 1st party games being available on PC. They don't care about PC.
So in essence MS is trading a 1) SMALL possibility that they MIGHT sell SOME 3rd party titles for <30% of the revenue to a person who would generally rather play these games on their PC for a 2) opportunity to sell millions of additional copies (if origin and Uplay are any indication) of their first party titles and DLC for 100% of the revenues. If you don't see the offset, then you aren't much of an analyst, I'm sorry.
Also there's no reason to think that these gamers who primarily play on PC make up a significant portion of XBL usage on console.
How much more likely is a PC user to buy an Xbox game if they don't need a console to do so?
Microsoft left money on the table when they stopped selling 1st party titles on PC.
Also any hardware profits are negligable, If they exist at all. They certainly aren't larger than the potential $for 1st party PC titles. You should know this analyst.
rakkadakka
Member
I have gaming PC and an XB1 that I got for exclusives.
Now I have two boxes that play those exclusives in different parts of my house. I can game in my living or if other people need that area I can transition to the PC without issue.
I don't think it somehow makes your Xbox worthless if you can utilize your PC to play some, not all, of the exclusives as well. If it does then just sell your Xbox and move on.
Not to mention that the Xbox is arguably the best media box in existence, so yeah if you have no use for it because it doesn't have "exclusive" titles, sell it.