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[Trup1aya]

So you rebuttal is: I'm right because your wrong. quod erat demonstrandum.

I think that lacks a lot of substance.

If the chart is correct (seems high to me) then it means the damage to the XB1 platform game sales will be higher but the upside effect for the windows 10 store will also be higher.

Folks will buy games on a console because:

• They don't own anything else
• They can't get it elsewhere
• They want it in the living room, and don't care to bridge a PC there
• They don't own something that can run it

The chart implies reason 1 is less true. They are explicitly removing reason 2. That leaves the last 2. Also as a case study, just the last 2 resulted in extremely low sales of the XB1 Rise of the Tomb Raider. We knew it was coming to PC eventually it devoured it sales numbers.

The number one reason people buy games on console is because they like to play on a console. This reason is the major fact that you choose to ignore in all of your 'analysis'.

Now, this is the first time you admit that PC gamers buy games on console 'because they can't get it anywhere else'. But the entirety of your argument about MS losing licensing revenue hinges on the idea that 'lost' PC gamers were potential opportunities to buy 3rd party software on Xbox. Now you admit that for this particular type of gamer, it was always unlikely anyway.

Don't you see the contradiction? If a person who is a PC gaming enthusiast can get 3rd party games on their PC, why would they ever get a 3rds party game on Xbox? How is MS losing potential 3rd party licensing by selling them 1st party titles on PC?

Back to the graphic. Now, you are an analyst right? so you should be able to pick through the missing information in this graphic.

What is a PC gamer as defined by this graphic?

1)Is it a person who's computer is powerful enough to run LoL but they wouldn't dream of running games like Quantum Break, so they use consoles for their 3rd party?

2)Is it a person who has the latest graphics cards, buys all their multiplats on PC, and only considers dabbling in consoles for the exclusives? A PC enthusiast.

3)Is it a person who is invested in XBL/PSN because that's where their IRL friends play, but they also have a rig that can handle the big game single player games.

4)Is it a person who mainly plays mobile and social games on PC, but spends plenty of time on consoles as well.

All of these folks would contribute to the infographic. But, If you have any knowledge of buying habits, you'd see that the only truly 'at risk group' for defecting the console market would only be group 2. This group obviously makes up for the lowest profit opportunity for console makers, because as you mentioned "they only buy games on consoles that they can't get anywhere else" IE, no licensing revenue potential from 3rd party games.

If you can provide any compelling reason why PC gamers in group 1,3, or 4 would leave the console market in significant numbers following this news, then you'd win the Internet.

But you can't. Because for them, Nothing has not changed. Consoles are still the ideal place for them to play, and if it's MS exclusives they want, they'll probably get them on console.


TLDR: MS has weakened that xb1 value proposition for the their least profitable segment of the the console market, the PC enthusiast. But they've more than offset that by vastly increasing the prospects of selling software to this group.

They've done nothing to change the value proposition of their remaining customers. But have increased the earning potential of their gaming division, which should likely lead to more gaming investment across the board. Which benefits xb1 users.

 

[LukasTaves]

Why is it better for them that there's some overlap?

Of those 92m how many own Xboxs?

Because if someone has to split their purchases between xbox and steam they could just focus on buying from xbox/windows with cross buy and play on either device.

 

[AP90]

You do realize the vast majority of console gamers have no intention of building a gaming rig and hooking it up to their TV so this means absolutely nothing for them. However there are lots of PC gamers who don't care for consoles and will give a go to some of these games. The overlap of people with a Capable PC and an XB1 is pretty small I guess and for many of them this is still a non issue as they have consoles on TV and a rig and monitor elsewhere. Your reasoning is as bad as Crapgamer "cancelling" his preorder because QB is now on PC. XB1 owners still didn't lose anything. Your reasoning is only valid if they were releasing these titles on competing platforms, but they aren't.

Also, you didn't explain how this is bad for Xbox One owners. You seem to be making arguments for how this could influence the Xbox brand but nothing you have said effects an XB1 owner negatively. Nothing changed for them.

The bolded above is me =P.

Can't believe people are still insisting the same argument that's been ripped apart 20+ pages ago.. I said my piece earlier, but gave up on trying to reason with the people who are crying out that this is bad and people are going to jump ship and sell there Xboxes to build new pcs and abandon there collections/xbox ecosystem from gens back. Lol. GAF is gunna GAF.

Good to see zedox, ol bones Bgamer, trup1aya and others trying to set some people straight.

 

[Zedox]

I'll say this about this infographic.

Look at the number of TV console players that there are. 92.5 million? What number is that? From what I can see, it's Xbox 360 and Xbox One owners. Now, if we look at the number of estimated number of Xbox Ones sold, it would be ~20 million. That would mean 70 million of those users have a 360 and let's max it out and say all of them have 360s, so that means ~50 million users only have a Xbox 360.

What this graphic doesn't state is the number of PC users that have Xbox Ones. Let's round their number to 80%, that would mean 16 million Xbox One users are also PC users. That would mean the most of the people who buy Xbox Ones have gaming PCs.

By their metric, people moving to PC would present a large shift in many people going to PC. But to me, there are missing pieces to the information (and statistics can be used to show a lot of things).

- Don't know how many people who own Xbox Ones specifically, own gaming pcs. And not knowing that number means that the first percentage number, is highly ineffective to determine the XBO/PC combination.
- Don't know what type of "gaming" this is referring to, I see MMO but that doesn't tell me anything. It also says that these statistics are for the US only. I see 101 million users, last I checked there were 125 million active users on Steam. That would lead me to believe that there's only a couple million users on Steam with the rest of the world! That seems really crazy to me (especially with LoL, StarCraft, etc...)

Those two wholes to me really don't let me "believe". I could totally be wrong, I'll never leave that out of the possibility, but I know how statistics work and how you can show things. But whatever. Carry on everyone.

 

[Helznicht]

That would mean the most of the people who buy Xbox Ones have gaming PCs.

Where does it say "Gaming PC's" ?

All PCs can play games, not all are gaming PC's. And I would say that, Yes, 95% of people that own an Xbox One (or PS4) also own a PC (that can play games).

 

[Zedox]

Where does it say "Gaming PC's" ?

All PCs can play games, not all are gaming PC's. And I would say that, Yes, 95% of people that own an Xbox One (or PS4) also own a PC (that can play games).

I was just going by the graphic and hypotheticals. You can see further down I said I don't know what "gaming" means. So yes, I made the assumption for the graphic, but I don't believe it.

 

[Trup1aya]

• They want it in the living room, and don't care to bridge a PC there
• They don't own something that can run it

The chart implies reason 1 is less true. They are explicitly removing reason 2. That leaves the last 2. Also as a case study, just the last 2 resulted in extremely low sales of the XB1 Rise of the Tomb Raider. We knew it was coming to PC eventually it devoured it sales numbers.

The idea that RotTR underperformed on Xbox BECAUSE of the looming PC release is so devoid of solid reasoning that it deserves a separate posts.

TR was just one of many multiplatform releases that launched during the holiday period. Other notables were BlOps3, Battlefront, and Fallout 4, which also had PC releases, simultaneous launches even, yet xb1 sales of these titles didn't seem to be effected. How do you explain that?

I'll help. It's because the existence of a game on PC doesn't have any bearing whatsoever on how a game will sell on consoles.

Tomb Raider struggled* on xb1, because it was up against stiff competition that came in the form of the aforementioned titles & Halo 5. TR simply didn't garner as much interest from xb1 gamers as the other titles did.

To try to tie this to your theory about xb1/PC overlap is just silly... Especially for an 'analyst'

*it sold over 1mil

 

[serversurfer]

So, Bone doesn't generate enough revenue to support AAA exclusives. Okay, fair enough; I'll bite. What AAA exclusive franchises does PC currently support? Does PC have its own Assassin's Creed, or Uncharted, or something similar? Obviously, there's a lot of stuff that's PC-only, but how much of that is big-budget? PC revenues always seem to be comparatively low for games of these types. Can PC support a Quantum Break 2?

I'll say this about this infographic.

Look at the number of TV console players that there are. 92.5 million? What number is that?

The number of console gamers in the US, which kinda throws off most of the rest of what you said.

 

[wapplew]

So, Bone doesn't generate enough revenue to support AAA exclusives. Okay, fair enough; I'll bite. What AAA exclusive franchises does PC currently support? Does PC have its own Assassin's Creed, or Uncharted, or something similar? Obviously, there's a lot of stuff that's PC-only, but how much of that is big-budget? PC revenues always seem to be comparatively low for games of these types. Can PC support a Quantum Break 2?

I think it's not about use PC to support the franchises, more like use those franchises to save windows 10 store.
I mean, no one really supporting the store ever, not since windows 8 and things are not that different on Windows 10.
There is not much MS can do to reverse that, so releasing Xbox one exclusive on windows store is kinda the only move they have.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

I think it's not about use PC to support the franchises, more like use those franchises to save windows 10 store.
I mean, no one really supporting the store ever, not since windows 8 and things are not that different on Windows 10.
There is not much MS can do to reverse that, so releasing Xbox one exclusive on windows store is kinda the only move they have.

Yeah, I still can't see how this move will result in more exclusive XBOX One games (which is the only reason this move might be "great for XBOX owners"). This might work out if one could buy this games on every PC online store, but for comprehensive reasons MS has no intention to offer their games on steam or other stores with a much bigger customer base of PC players. Their active userbase on Windows store is far too small to have any significant impact on games revenue. So, despite the missionary zeal by the inevitable defense force, so far this is just bad news for XBoners.

 

[Ninja Sharingan]

Where does it say "Gaming PC's" ?

All PCs can play games, not all are gaming PC's. And I would say that, Yes, 95% of people that own an Xbox One (or PS4) also own a PC (that can play games).

95 percent? Not a chance. Unless you mean minesweeper and maybe warcraft

 

[Pathfinder]

Yeah, I still can't see how this move will result in more exclusive XBOX One games (which is the only reason this move might be "great for XBOX owners"). This might work out if one could buy this games on every PC online store, but for comprehensive reasons MS has no intention to offer their games on steam or other stores with a much bigger customer base of PC players. Their active userbase on Windows store is far too small to have any significant impact on games revenue. So, despite the missionary zeal by the inevitable defense force, so far this is just bad news for XBoners.

Windows 10 user base is growing rapidly. Doesn't take much effort to purchase something from the store.

If you're saying it's not good news for Xbox players, then it's just as much not bad news because it doesn't affect their ability to access the game. The game is simply available to more than Xbox now, it's available for Windows 10.

I know you're intent on proving your point, but referring to people who don't believe what you believe as being part of a missionary defense force is quite childish.

 

[serversurfer]

Incidentally, I found the original source for that infographic. For the record, it's from Feb '15, so the US Bone base was ~6.3M at that time. So of the 45.3M PC gamers who also have an XBox, at least 39M of those are actually on XB2, assuming 100% overlap between XB3 and PC. The number of PC/XB2 gamers was probably actually a good bit higher than 39M at that point.

I think it's not about use PC to support the franchises, more like use those franchises to save windows 10 store.

Well, I realize that attracting people to the store is the goal, and the games are the bait, but I don't think they'll wanna spend hundreds of millions on bait, ya know? I dunno how much QB cost to make, but if it doesn't at least break even, I can't see them green-lighting QB2. Nadella is focused on mobile, after all. While he may also be willing to fund AAA development, I can't imagine he'll be eager to lose money in the process. While there are certainly plenty of PC gamers, looking at the financials, it seems like they don't actually spend a lot of money on games like Assassin's Creed, however many copies they actually end up with.

I mean, no one really supporting the store ever, not since windows 8 and things are not that different on Windows 10.
There is not much MS can do to reverse that, so releasing Xbox one exclusive on windows store is kinda the only move they have.

/nod

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Windows 10 user base is growing rapidly. Doesn't take much effort to purchase something from the store.

If you're saying it's not good news for Xbox players, then it's just as much not bad news because it doesn't affect their ability to access the game. The game is simply available to more than Xbox now, it's available for Windows 10.

I know you're intent on proving your point, but referring to people who don't believe what you believe as being part of a missionary defense force is quite childish.

First of all, I cannot prove my point, just argue, like anyone else here. Nobody here "knows" what's going to happen from here on onwards, as you very well know.

Second, I didn't say any word about this being "bad news", or did I? Don't put words into my mouth I didn't say please.

Third, Windows 10 install base is growing (well, obviously), but that doesn't translate in Windows Store being the next big online games store for PC gamers. Not as long as there is a strong substitute with a hell of a library, regular sales events and comparably less limitations when running your game. As I said, would MS release their XBOX One IPs on all those stores, I have no doubt that this has a positive impact on sales, hence revenue, hence, risk minimization, hence more games for XBOX One. But "just" releasing it on Windows Store is not enough to achieve those positive effects as it's market share is just too small. What you and others are saying is literally, that bringing those games to Windows store will have a huge boost for the Windows Store in general, people will start to buy not only XBOX games there, but other PC games, too. And that's exactly what's not going to happen unless MS completely rearranges the way Windows 10 runs those games.

Oh, and btw, we haven't talked about what will happen if games like Quantum Break totally bomb on PC, which is actually very likely to happen (because of their sales channel, not because of quality issues like back in the day with Halo 2, when both played a role). What are they going to do then? Back tho the roots? Abandon ship?

 

[Pathfinder]

First of all, I cannot prove my point, just argue, like anyone else here. Nobody here "knows" what's going to happen from here on onwards, as you very well know.

Obviously, which is why your use of the term "defense force" is quite puzzling.

Second, I didn't say any word about this being "bad news", or did I? Don't put words into my mouth I didn't say please.

You did, actually.

Third, Windows 10 install base is growing (well, obviously), but that doesn't translate in Windows Store being the next big online games store for PC gamers. Not as long as there is a strong substitute with a hell of a library, regular sales events and comparably less limitations when running your game. As I said, would MS release their XBOX One IPs on all those stores, I have no doubt that this has a positive impact on sales, hence revenue, hence, risk minimization, hence more games for XBOX One. But "just" releasing it on Windows Store is not enough to achieve those positive effects as it's market share is just too small. What you and others are saying is literally, that bringing those games to Windows store will have a huge boost for the Windows Store in general, people will start to buy not only XBOX games there, but other PC games, too. And that's exactly what's not going to happen unless MS completely rearranges the way Windows 10 runs those games.

I'm not saying Windows Store is suddenly going to be a Steam-like entity. What I'm saying is the Store is built right into every Windows 10 installation. Customers don't have to download a separate app, it's right there.

I personally said nothing about people buying other PC games there. Obviously the only two AAA titles appearing there any time soon are going to be ROTR and Quantum Break. Steam, and to some extent Origin, Uplay and GOG, are still going to be the go-to places to get games.

Oh, and btw, we haven't talked about what will happen if games like Quantum Break totally bomb on PC, which is actually very likely to happen (because of their sales channel, not because of quality issues like back in the day with Halo 2, when both played a role). What are they going to do then? Back tho the roots? Abandon ship?

I would be very surprised if a game like Quantum Break bombs. I definitely feel it will sell much better on Xbox One, but with cross buy/save enabled, it has potential to do very well on PC as well. Especially considering how many people will want to play the game, but not want to buy an Xbox One when they have a good Windows 10 PC. Remedy puts out quality titles that people want.

 

[viHuGi]

They're going to save a lot of money on Xbox Two when it never comes out.

And build a good pc.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

You did, actually..

Where exactly did I say that this is bad news for XBOX One owners, besides stating that this development may have a negative impact on future XBOX One sales? Lets not forget, I am not in team "XBOX is doomed!" (yet).

 

[Doffen]

Where exactly did I say that this is bad news for XBOX One owners, besides stating that this development may have a negative impact on future XBOX One sales? Lets not forget, I am not in team "XBOX is doomed!" (yet).

What is dad can never be doomed.

 

[Pathfinder]

Where exactly did I say that this is bad news for XBOX One owners, besides stating that this development may have a negative impact on future XBOX One sales? Lets not forget, I am not in team "XBOX is doomed!" (yet).

Here:

So, despite the missionary zeal by the inevitable defense force, so far this is just bad news for XBoners.

Am I totally misreading that?

 

[texhnolyze]

Is there any confirmation yet about how the cross-buy thing works?
Can someone who buy the XB1 version (of Quantum Break, for example) give/sell the PC code to the other?

 

[GHG]

The reality is that we wont be able to tell if QB bombs or not on the PC considering they are giving the game out for free on W10 with every Xbox One preorder.

Whether those copies actually get used/played is another story...

Is there any confirmation yet about how the cross-buy thing works?
Can someone who buy the XB1 version (of Quantum Break, for example) give/sell the PC code to the other?

Its tied to your Microsoft account AFAIK.

 

[justsomeguy]

The bolded above is me =P.

Can't believe people are still insisting the same argument that's been ripped apart 20+ pages ago.. I said my piece earlier, but gave up on trying to reason with the people who are crying out that this is bad and people are going to jump ship and sell there Xboxes to build new pcs and abandon there collections/xbox ecosystem from gens back. Lol. GAF is gunna GAF.

Good to see zedox, ol bones Bgamer, trup1aya and others trying to set some people straight.

Good post.

Assuming true convergence is the strategy, and *even if* it fails, the reasoning behind it must be in line with what folks like trup1aya had said.

So it's not a poorly thought out move, it's a calculated attempt to move the market.

It may fail, it may be a stunning success, but it's going to be fascinating to watch as it evolves.

Key for me will be whether 3rd parties adopt the same model in the future too. It's all well and good saying 200m windows 10 pcs but that still leaves several hundred million on 7/8 and that's a lot to leave on the table.

 

[Saty]

Look, if you think it's going to affect XB1 badly then go ahead give us numbers. How much did you estimate QB to sell worldwide as XB1 exclusive? How much do you think the XB1 version is going to sell now? Do you have estimations specifically for NPD? Same goes for hardware: how much did u think the console was going to sell in April NPD when the game was exclusive and how much now?

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Here:



Am I totally misreading that?

Touché, was meant in the sense of "not good / great news", though.

 

[Pathfinder]

Touché, was meant in the sense of "not good / great news", though.

Even still, if it's not great news, then it's not really bad news either.

It would be neutral news, at worst.

 

[leeh]

I fail to see the benefit for Xbox One owners.

That's an easy one. Bigger game communities and more sales. More chance for a sequel.

If only we had a sequel for Ryse announced...

 

[wapplew]

That's an easy one. Bigger game communities and more sales. More chance for a sequel.

If only we had a sequel for Ryse announced...

Or fucking half life 3! Valve just sitting there, with all the steam money, where my chance for a sequel?

 

[Trup1aya]

Yeah, I still can't see how this move will result in more exclusive XBOX One games (which is the only reason this move might be "great for XBOX owners"). This might work out if one could buy this games on every PC online store, but for comprehensive reasons MS has no intention to offer their games on steam or other stores with a much bigger customer base of PC players. Their active userbase on Windows store is far too small to have any significant impact on games revenue. So, despite the missionary zeal by the inevitable defense force, so far this is just bad news for XBoners.

Why do you think that the success of this program hinges on the CURRENT active users base of the Windows store? Perhaps people aren't shopping in the store because, currently, there isn't much worth buying. Perhaps that changes when MS releases some of their 1st party titles in the store.

Again, I'd like to point people to EA Origin, which similarly, is used primarily as the EXCLUSIVE access point for pc gamers who want to play EA titles. As such, it's active user base is directly related to the draw of EAs in-house content. This approach has been notably successful for EAs PC gaming business and theirs no compelling argument as to why the same can't be true for MS' PC gaming business.

With regards to Steam, I think the data supports the idea that customers are willing to patronize more than one storefront if that's what the software availability dictates.

 

[Raist]

So, Bone doesn't generate enough revenue to support AAA exclusives. Okay, fair enough; I'll bite. What AAA exclusive franchises does PC currently support? Does PC have its own Assassin's Creed, or Uncharted, or something similar? Obviously, there's a lot of stuff that's PC-only, but how much of that is big-budget? PC revenues always seem to be comparatively low for games of these types. Can PC support a Quantum Break 2?

Starcraft, WoW.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Why do you think that the success of this program hinges on the CURRENT active users base of the Windows store? Perhaps people aren't shopping in the store because, currently, there isn't much worth buying. Perhaps that changes when MS releases some of their 1st party titles in the store.

Again, I'd like to point people to EA Origin, which similarly, is used primarily as the EXCLUSIVE access point for pc gamers who want to play EA titles. As such, it's active user base is directly related to the draw of EAs in-house content. This approach has been notably successful for EAs PC gaming business and theirs no compelling argument as to why the same can't be true for MS' PC gaming business.

With regards to Steam, I think the data supports the idea that customers are willing to patronize more than one storefront if that's what the software availability dictates.

Are there actual numbers that support your point that EA Origin is actually successful?

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Even still, if it's not great news, then it's not really bad news either.

It would be neutral news, at worst.

Right now, I have to agree. As I said, it might take a while before we'll be able to assess the impact of this development. Thing is, sales of XBOX One during next holiday season will be impacted by other developments as well, be it PSVR, Nintendo's potential NX launch, other system sellers doing their good damn job, and so on. But that won't stop people saying "see, what did I tell you back in February!" for sure .

 

[Trup1aya]

Are there actual numbers that support your point that EA Origin is actually successful?

Yes.. Their earnings reports every quarter

 

[wapplew]

Are there actual numbers that support your point that EA Origin is actually successful?

How do we define its successful or not?
Does it become another steam/App store/google play? Obviously not.
Does it become the store of their games without giving steam 30% cut like Bnet, Uplay? Pretty much.

So, at very least Windows store can become the later, a MS first party store on PC.
But that's not what MS trying to achieve, not when they betting the market growth of Xbox one with it.

 

[OléGunner]

Are there actual numbers that support your point that EA Origin is actually successful?

Also EA have the games catalogue to draw in PC gamers and make EA origin that portal.

Seeing as MS only dole out XB1 exclusives here and there (hard to have AAA games every 2-4 months), in comparison to Ubi, EA, Blizzard etc, they really should release every single 1st party game.

All the big hitters from QB to Halo have to be released on Windows store for it to be a major relevant force.

 

[Pantaghana]

So, Bone doesn't generate enough revenue to support AAA exclusives. Okay, fair enough; I'll bite. What AAA exclusive franchises does PC currently support? Does PC have its own Assassin's Creed, or Uncharted, or something similar? Obviously, there's a lot of stuff that's PC-only, but how much of that is big-budget? PC revenues always seem to be comparatively low for games of these types. Can PC support a Quantum Break 2?

I don't think any modern AAA franchise could be supported by a single platform. I wouldn't be surprised if platform exclusives like Uncharted earned pennies in comparison to subscriptions and licencing.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Also EA have the games catalogue to draw in PC gamers and make EA origin that portal.

Seeing as MS only dole out XB1 exclusives here and there (hard to have AAA games every 2-4 months), in comparison to Ubi, EA, Blizzard etc, they really should release every single 1st party game.

All the big hitters from QB to Halo have to be released on Windows store for it to be a major relevant force.

Right. EA has a huge library of games, and back in the day Half Life 2 did the trick for Steam. But HL2 is HL2... You'd need an exclusive GTA 6 to repeat that.

As much as I'm personally interested in the game, and although I can see it will sell well on XBOX One, Quantum Break is not attractive enough to move masses of PC players to their new ecosystem. They really have to go "all in" with their upcoming IPs to make their store as attractive as possible for PC players, only then will they give it a shot for other, non-XBOX games.

 

[Trup1aya]

Also EA have the games catalogue to draw in PC gamers and make EA origin that portal.

Seeing as MS only dole out XB1 exclusives here and there (hard to have AAA games every 2-4 months), in comparison to Ubi, EA, Blizzard etc, they really should release every single 1st party game.

All the big hitters from QB to Halo have to be released on Windows store for it to be a major relevant force.

It doesn't have to be a 'major relevant force' by your standards, not overnight. It just has to bring them more revenue from PC enthusiasts, than they would have gotten by trying to convince PC enthusiasts to buy xbox's.. Which isn't a tall order...


Also, Microsofts potential first party output this year is nothing to scoff at. Quantum Break, Gigantic, Scalebound, Recore, Fable Legends, Halo Wars, Killer Instict, Gears of War. They've easily got your 2-4 month schedule handled if that's what they are going for.

Forza would be a good candidate too.

Right. EA has a huge library of games, and back in the day Half Life 2 did the trick for Steam. But HL2 is HL2... You'd need an exclusive GTA 6 to repeat that.

As much as I'm personally interested in the game, and although I can see it will sell well on XBOX One, Quantum Break is not attractive enough to move masses of PC players to their new ecosystem. They really have to go "all in" with their upcoming IPs to make their store as attractive as possible for PC players, only then will they give it a shot for other, non-XBOX games.

They don't have to 'move' players to their ecosystem. The steam, origin, win 10 store, GoG, Uplay- none of these storefronts are black holes that suck users in and prevent them from ever shopping elsewhere.

What will happen is QB will launch. And PC gamers that want to play it will buy it from Win10 store. When they are done, they'll go play FIFA on origin, and/or overwatch on steam or whatever. Then, when the next MS game comes out, they'll buy it from the Win10 store.

There is no reason that these storefronts can't continue coexist, patronized by gamers who will do what they gotta do to play what they wanna play.

 

[Zeta Oni]

Is basically this thread the last 15 or so pages. We keep arguing the same points every page.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I don't think any modern AAA franchise could be supported by a single platform. I wouldn't be surprised if platform exclusives like Uncharted earned pennies in comparison to subscriptions and licencing.

What are you basing this on? Considering those exclusivie AAA games don't have pay licensing fees they don't need to sell as much multiplats to be financially viable.

 

[thequickandthedead]

Is basically this thread the last 15 or so pages. We keep arguing the same points every page.

How were the 35 pages before that?

 

[Synth]

Yeah. No. Not really. The prospect of a couple of hundred thousand potential PC customers doesn't make up for the loss of a 35 million PS4 user base, 50 million by the end of this year. So, no, you're clutching to straws here.

Alright, I've only just jumped to the last page here, so I'm not entirely sure what I may have missed... however...

Why is the "potential PC customers" a "couple of hundred thousand", whilst the potential PS4 customer is apparently everyone that owns a PS4?

Shouldn't the potential PC customer then be absolutely anyone with Windows 10, and a PC at least comparable to the performance of an Xbox One?

 

[Pantaghana]

What are you basing this on? Considering those exclusivie AAA games don't have pay licensing fees they don't need to sell as much multiplats to be financially viable.

Looking back on that comment, it was really badly worded.

I'm not saying that first party titles are not profitable, but relative to profits from subscriptions and licencing, the profit is unimpressive.
According to this Playstation blog, Uncharted games sold 21+mil across 3 titles and 8 years.
CoD: MW3 sold 6.5mil copies on launch day, in US and UK alone. Apparently it sold 20+mil total until the release of BLOPS. One title in one year that first parties didn't have to spend a cent on.

For third parties on the other hand, smaller audience leads to smaller sales.
Unless they have a deal with a platform holder to cover (some or all) costs of development, they will not get the same return of investment.

 

[aravuus]

How were the 35 pages before that?

But the thread is only 24 pages long?!

 

[Freeman]

But the thread is only 24 pages long?!

Not for everyone. Page 48 here.

 

[wapplew]

Looking back on that comment, it was really badly worded.

I'm not saying that first party titles are not profitable, but relative to profits from subscriptions and licencing, the profit is unimpressive.
According to this Playstation blog, Uncharted games sold 21+mil across 3 titles and 8 years.
CoD: MW3 sold 6.5mil copies on launch day, in US and UK alone. Apparently it sold 20+mil total until the release of BLOPS. One title in one year that first parties didn't have to spend a cent on.

For third parties on the other hand, smaller audience leads to smaller sales.
Unless they have a deal with a platform holder to cover (some or all) costs of development, they will not get the same return of investment.

If you compare everything with COD or GTA, no one should make game anymore.
First party titles made for convince people buy console, profitable is secondary goal. Many tittles are happy take 1-2mil LTD.
Also, sometime third party release on single platform, the exclusive status give it more exposure compare to lost in vast ocean of games.

 

[Zedox]

I just can't wait for the damn games.

 

[OléGunner]

It doesn't have to be a 'major relevant force' by your standards, not overnight. It just has to bring them more revenue from PC enthusiasts, than they would have gotten by trying to convince PC enthusiasts to buy xbox's.. Which isn't a tall order...

Also, Microsofts potential first party output this year is nothing to scoff at. Quantum Break, Gigantic, Scalebound, Recore, Fable Legends, Halo Wars, Killer Instict, Gears of War. They've easily got your 2-4 month schedule handled if that's what they are going for.

Forza would be a good candidate too.

Well yeah naturally I'm sure MS are just happy to have new revenue streams so it doesn't have to aspire to be Steam level and come on obviously this wouldn't happen overnight.

Also MS do have quite enough enticing games in the pipeline but considering we don't know the release schedule for some stuff, I don't know how confident you can be on new content coming every couple months.

Even more critical seeing as MS is all about their MAU metrics now.

 

[SparkTR]

If you compare everything with COD or GTA, no one should make game anymore.
First party titles made for convince people buy console, profitable is secondary goal. Many tittles are happy take 1-2mil LTD.
Also, sometime third party release on single platform, the exclusive status give it more exposure compare to lost in vast ocean of games.

Those first party titles are going to convince people to open the Windows 10 Store now. Quantum Break makes sense in that Remedy has an established fanbase on PC that seemed to have stuck around this far.

I don't think I can remember the last time a big budget third party game was exclusive to a single console. MGS4? Either way it's not a thing anymore unless it's bought and paid for, because single platforms can't support them no matter what it's on. On PC there's Total War, Star Citizen, Guild Wars 2, Starcraft, XCOM 2 etc though that's mainly due to how differently the platform operates compared to everything else.

So, Bone doesn't generate enough revenue to support AAA exclusives. Okay, fair enough; I'll bite. What AAA exclusive franchises does PC currently support? Does PC have its own Assassin's Creed, or Uncharted, or something similar? Obviously, there's a lot of stuff that's PC-only, but how much of that is big-budget? PC revenues always seem to be comparatively low for games of these types. Can PC support a Quantum Break 2?

That's true for every platform these days. Well for action/setpiece heavy games like Assassin's Creed or GTA or CoD anyway. First party titles are tools developed in order to entice people to buy into the console/ecosystem where they'll then earn the platform holder more money. The thing is Microsoft's ecosystem isn't just on the XBO anymore, and these tools (being first party games) are just being put to use like they were designed to be.

 

[Trup1aya]

Well yeah naturally I'm sure MS are just happy to have new revenue streams so it doesn't have to aspire to be Steam level and come on obviously this wouldn't happen overnight.

Also MS do have quite enough enticing games in the pipeline but considering we don't know the release schedule for some stuff, I don't know how confident you can be on new content coming every couple months.

Even more critical seeing as MS is all about their MAU metrics now.

Well sure, any of these releases could slip, and not be released on PC this year.

But regardless of WHEN they release, people can only buy them WHERE they are being sold which will either be on console for people who prefer to play on console, or on the Win10 store for those who prefer to play on PC.

So even if they dont release titles at a RATE comparable to EA Origin, they'll still have the benefits that EA enjoys: being the place PC enthusiasts can go to get these games with the smallest barrier to entry.

 

[jroc74]

So important he doesn't mention the sub division?

#2 platform in sub portion that 23.5b industry which has strongly resisted their attempted at taking a bigger chunk.



This is the endgame for Always Online and why it won't go away

This is the endgame for Kinect and why it won't go away

This is the endgame for Games for Windows – Live and why it won't go away

This is the endgame for Windows Phone and why it won't go away

This is the endgame for Zune and why it won't go away

This is the endgame for Metro and why it won't go away

This is the endgame for Windows Kin and why it won't go away

This is the endgame for Windows Tablet PC and why it won't go away

This is the endgame for Windows Bob and why it won't go away

Just because there is a potential upside does not mean they will achieve it, nor will they support something unquestioningly. They've made their play at that potential upside in gaming and stores; and come up short a few times.

In many of the things you mention they have already tried, already failed and are trying again. It doesn't mean they will commit the resource indefinitely and each failure makes continued attempt less likely.

PS. Something good for the MS ecosystem is not guaranteed to be good for the XB1 platform.

This is all some of us are saying. Not the software but the hardware.

There's no guarantee for anything, the world can blow up and none of this matters. Obviously it's my speculation but if Xbox is supposed to mean gaming on Windows (more than just PC), I don't see anything going away.

So when Office went free for iOS, Android and W10 mobile/tablets for devices smaller than 10 inches (or web)...Office is going to die? There was an endgame with Office 365 and it's working...getting subscriptions, never pay for new versions. You could say all the points you did for Xbox and apply it to Office and it going free and you could end up to your doom and gloom aspect of it. It takes a while to see that the Xbox is struggling so bad that it's not beneficial for MS. MS isn't giving up on Windows 10 mobile (they just aren't going to be a big phone OEM...they want other OEMs to do the hard part and they have their "surface" device to inspire innovation) #shrug

No, Office isnt going to die...but the MS mobile phone platform.....WP, Win Mo...lost a key reason to be on that platform. I understand why MS did it...but for their mobile phones to gain traction in the market...it doesnt help.

I think there are reports that Surface tablets are gaining traction over iPads in govt. Now that flies in the face of whats going on with their mobile phones.

A Surface tablet does so much more than an iPad.
A PC does so much more than an XBox.
Steam machines make PC gaming alot more accessible. All it takes is to be able to load the Windows store on a Steam machine..

As A Vita owner I wouldnt be surprised if Sony never did another handheld system. As a Wii U owner...I wouldnt be surprised if Nintendo never made another home console if the NX fails.

Thats why some keep saying its bad for XBO owners. There is a chance that this results in the end of MS consoles. If that happens...in 2013 it woulda been better to invest the money spent on an XBO on a PC. I will say this tho...at least there is a viable Plan B if there is no more Xbox consoles. So I do give MS credit for that.