The South Carolina Primary & Nevada Caucuses |Feb 20, 23, 27| Continuing The Calm
- Thread starter NeoXChaos
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Might take all night probably.
Aaronology
Member
This entire election cycle has opened my eyes to how many on the left who like to consider themselves progressive really are not that much better than often demonized racists and bigots on the far right. One group wants to throw me off the boat, the other is fine with letting the boat sink with me in it (since they're in a life raft). It's rather frustrating, and this is the first election where I'm finding myself exhausted even before the GE.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
But what other candidate is really better than Trump? Cruz? Rubio? If Trump does not win the Republican nomination, not much is won yet, because Cruz as the US president actually seems more threatening. Trump is obviously talking shit all the time, building walls that Mexico has to pay and such, things he's obviously not going to do and he very likely does not even intend to do. Cruz however seems to be to believed when he says that the law should be derived from the bible...
There is an establishment that backs Hillary, the huge numbers of Dems, the huge amount of corps, the huge portion of the media is that establishment.
They are lock step in their message that overwhelmingly tries to dispel any notion of Wall Street reform in the bigger sense, any notion of healthcare reform, any notion of social justice in general as not only not being plausible in the current congress, but not actually working in general in society. Hell, 99% of them don't even think money in politics as corruption even exists, and actively try to dispel that notion, Hillary included.
That is fucking dangerous to the average person as a viewpoint.
Wafflecakes
Member
Probably.
It would require sweeping constitutional amendments though, which won't happen any time soon.
cpp_is_king
Member
Is there a good site for live republican poll results?
If he loses the nomination, he'll endorse Hillary and urge his supporters to vote for her. Because, thankfully, he isn't as boneheaded as you'd like him to be.
not a good year for "allies"
Totally understand where you're coming from. At this point, I'm barely a Clinton voter. But if I hear another story about her taking corporate money or her connections to Goldman Sachs, it may push me over the edge.
googleplex
Member
Its is the liberal version of "Fuck you, I got mine".
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Actual full 100% precincts reporting? Yes, or sometimes 99% until the morning for a few stragglers. But you will probably get a projection and results close to the final tally much earlier.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
It's honestly made me almost ashamed to call myself liberal.
We're supposed to be the big tent. But half the people under the tent seem totally fine with letting Republicans burn down the fairgrounds.
When the fuck has Hillary Clinton, or any establishment Democrat, ever tried to dispel the need for healthcare reform, Wall Street reform, or and social justice? Even if you think Hillary is bought and owned by corporate interests, she's been advocating for healthcare reform and social justice causes for literally her entire political life, and well before it.
Some of you guys live in another world entirely.
SolarPowered
Member
It's not a coincidence that billionaires like Perot and Bloomberg are the only ones that have considered (or attempted) serious third party runs. It takes tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars to run for president of the US. You can't do it without party machinery from the democratic or republican parties.
oops
MHWilliams
Member
Indeed. Sanders will think of the long-term results of him going independent, which would essentially be handing the GOP the Presidency.
While I prefer Sanders and am happy he's getting people involved in politics again, his fervent supporters opting not to vote if he loses is the part that worries me greatly and I've said so again and again.
The Presidency and Supreme Court is too important.
Psychoward
Banned
just seeing the results now
was the dem race supposed to be this close? I thought Hillary had a much bigger lead in Nevada?
was the dem race supposed to be this close? I thought Hillary had a much bigger lead in Nevada?
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
People want to believe it's as easy as "feeling the Bern."
It takes work. Decades and decades of long, arduous, dirty work that includes compromise and setbacks.
Nobody wants to hear that, but it's the truth. It's how our country is literally designed to run.
Exactly. And it honestly pisses me off seeing some of the responses because I refuse to fall in line and hold my nose because somehow that means Hillary will honestly appoint liberal judges. Hillary is not a liberal, she's a populist that will fall wherever the wind blows. If it's more lucrative politically for her to appoint a pro-corporate judge she'll do it. This is the same woman who went on TV to defend DOMA, and we're honestly supposed to just pretend that she's now an ally?
I just can't in good faith believe that she'll somehow do anything to help us. So I'll just abstain.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Honestly, nobody was all that sure what the "leads" were in Nevada. Caucus polling is tough, and in this case there were only like 2 or 3 polls.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Her and Bernie's voting records are nearly identical...
she'll need to do more than that though. it'd be best if he actively campaigns for her and if she has a position in her administration for him or someone like him. not sure if sanders would want that but she needs to embrace progressivism at least to some extent.
might be interesting to see a general election candidate have to tack away from the center.
the-pi-guy
Member
It doesn't really make any sense to go as an independent.
In the US, the odds of winning as an independent are pretty much literally 0.
He's getting much (much much much much... 100 more times) farther even being second place in the democratic side.
Besides that even if he knew off the bat that he wasn't going to win, he still gets heard in this case.
Before the election, hardly anyone knew about him. Whereas everyone everyone knew Hillary Clinton. And now, he's losing, he's doing far far far better than anyone could have expected of him.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
So the answer is to hand the election to people who, even if pressed on those issues, will spit in your face, call you a hippie, and have you arrested?
Good idea.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Niddog doesnt speak for the millions of Sanders supporters, thanks.
Wafflecakes
Member
Lets not let the facts get in the way of a good narrative.
Black Republican
Member
i know exit poll but
damn
damn
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Yep, they forget about Hilary care...a single payer system in the early 90s! It cost the dems massively in 94.
Not sure who I will vote for yet. I really like both Clinton and sanders. However I do find sanders supporters are very similar to Ron Paul fans. They have the same all or nothing attitude.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
I don't see why Jeb Bush would drop out if he's right there with Rubio fighting for third.
Matt_
World's #1 One Direction Fan: Everyone else in the room can see it, everyone else but you~~~
She is an ally so you can stop with that nonsense
and I'm fairly certain she said she wants to appoint a judge that will strike down citizens united which certainly isnt pro corporate
Change and progress is often slow, painful and bitter ass pill to swallow. It's much easier to undo things.
Do I agree with most things Bernie says? Yes of course. I think most liberals do. But I also understand his grand ideas just aren't realistic right now. Maybe in 20 years, but not right now.
her campaign claimed that the sanders healthcare plan would get rid of obamacare and that's somehow a bad thing
i do think hillary would be a good president overall but some of the positions she's taken this cycle and the negative campaigning against obama as the 2008 season closed out have really hurt her
Yep. And if he beats Rubio he can point to two times he's beaten him in a primary.
Who is "us"?
Thankfully, polling shows that both candidates are even more-admired than Obama and Hillary were with each others' supporters at this point in 2008. We're just seeing a very loud, whiny minority online.
If "moderate/corporatist" Bill Clinton could nominate a justice as liberal as Ginsburg back in 1993, Hillary should have no problem nominating someone similarly liberal.
Those who think that the influence of corporate money (via Citizens) is a big root of our problems: this is your chance. You get to demonstrate how serious you are about this.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
I'm friends with Sanders supporters. I go to school with Sanders supporters.
To a person, every last one of them has told a flabbergasted me that they'd rather not vote than vote for Hillary.
Anecdotal, sure. But it's what feeds my feelings of being ashamed of my fellow liberals.
Edit: Just asked my friend here and his wife. He said he'd vote for her but "through tears" and she just nodded. So I guess it's not everyone...
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Yeah, a 5 point spread bodes well for Super Tuesday.
Yeah there was a poll yesterday (?) that showed vast majority of Clinton/Sanders supporters would vote for the other in the general.
I would rather not vote than vote for Hilary.
Of course I will but i'd rather not.
Then you were never serious about change to begin with.
Hillary has one of the most liberal voting records in the Senate, and sided with Bernie over 90 percent of the time. She was always more liberal than Bill, and was frequently seen as a liability by his campaign because of it. And she's been advocating for liberal causes, particularly healthcare reform and AA rights, her entire political career and before it. You're spectacularly uninformed about a candidate that you're so sure will fuck "us" over.
makingmusic476
Member
Everything I've read about Hillarycare didn't make it look like a single-payer plan in the slightest.
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