Support NeoGAF

[Audioboxer]

You don't really have any data to back up that assertion and there are alternative explanations (which also have no data).

I think a little bit of common sense can be applied. Massive swings from Tory/Labour camps and those who must have changed allegiance clearly on the whole voted for independence, right?

Cmon. Simple politics. When have Labour and the Conservatives ever been pro-Scottish independence? If you were massively pro-independence for Scotland during the independence vote chances are you were already SNP, not Labour or Conservative.

Sure there is crossover, but lots of it? Fat chance. Yes everyone knows someone who is Labour/Conservative and pro-independence, but your roots in your political party tend to align fairly similarly to what your party wants, and being part of the UK is massively what Labour and the Conservatives want.

It seems fairly logical for the landslide to have happened in the general elections, decent amounts of NO voters voted for the SNP.

 

[Beefy]

I certainly view it as better than what some appear to think is being said "You should all vote for independence, anyone who supports SNP has to be pro-independence" or some other nonsense. I can't really see how a pro-independence party can put it anymore reasonably than "it's up to the Scottish people". That is the sitting on the fence statement, not telling someone to go one way or the other.

That's the problem with politics. A lot of people pick a side and will defend that side to the death. In some way politics is like football (but even worse), some people support a team and hate their rivals, even giving them abuse etc. It's why on many forums politic talk is banned due to how crazy it gets.

 

[Tak3n]

BBC

David Cameron is looking like he will become a minority leader as over half of the Conservative party are expected to back the 'out' campaign, and there seems to be a real wind of momentum going with the out campaign

 

[Iokis]

Did the Tory Prime Minister and 70% of the Tory cabinet not just start a pro Europe campaign for the UK to stay in Europe?

Apparently there is also a letter signed by business leaders of 50 of the FTSE 100 supporting the stay campaign.

These two points seem to contradict your above quoted statement.

David Cameron is pro-EU purely cos of the hole he dug himself promising this referendum out of fear of UKIP.

Johnson and IDS meanwhile are voting for getting out, and I believe purely out of self-interest rather than it being best for the country. I'd also read as recently as last month that 70% of Tories favour Brexit, though I concede this may be outdated information.

As for the businesses, I may have to retract that and research it further.

In any case I feel most of my points still stand.

 

[8bit]

BBC

David Cameron is looking like he will become a minority leader as over half of the Conservative party are expected to back the 'out' campaign, and there seems to be a real wind of momentum going with the out campaign

There's nothing more British than a good old fuck up, jolly good show.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Draw conclusions from the crazy swings

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-scotland-32635871

Pretty certain a lot of the Labour to SNP converts voted NO in the referendum.

Based on what? Wouldn't it be more logical that those moving from Labour to SNP voted Yes at the referendum? The maths adds up - the SNP got ~200,000 fewer votes at the GE than Yes votes in the indyref.

And it'd nice, just one time, to get an acknowledgement when correcting factually wrong statements (SNP victory required No voters), instead of just moving on to the next thing :-(

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

BBC

David Cameron is looking like he will become a minority leader as over half of the Conservative party are expected to back the 'out' campaign, and there seems to be a real wind of momentum going with the out campaign

*waits patiently for the deluge of headlines about the Tory party being in chaos*

 

[Beefy]

So with the Tories looking like they will fight each other and Labour being umm well you know...

The next elections are going to be fun.

 

[Beefy]

*waits patiently for the deluge of headlines about the Tory party being in chaos*

It would be funny if they were.

 

[Audioboxer]

That's the problem with politics. A lot of people pick a side and will defend that side to the death. In some way politics is like football (but even worse), some people support a team and hate their rivals, even giving them abuse etc. It's why on many forums politic talk is banned due to how crazy it gets.

Fair point indeed. It is easy to get hot headed at times. I mean you can understand it as minor political party differences aside, every now and then something genuinely huge comes along (referendums for one).

People get antsy and understandably turned on about what their short to mid term future might look like.

Based on what? Wouldn't it be more logical that those moving from Labour to SNP voted Yes at the referendum? The maths adds up - the SNP got ~200,000 fewer votes at the GE than Yes votes in the indyref.

And it'd nice, just one time, to get an acknowledgement when correcting factually wrong statements (SNP victory required No voters), instead of just moving on to the next thing :-(

This is influenced by the turnouts as well

84.6% for referendum.
71.1% for general election.

I can agree to disagree, I just genuinely and anecdotally (from chatter around Glasgow) believe there was NO voters who were happy to vote SNP in the GE. Especially in what used to be Labour and Conservative strongholds. Not a swing of a few %, the ones that were in the tens, twenties and thirties. That is a lot of swinging.

 

[SlickShoes]

Based on what? Wouldn't it be more logical that those moving from Labour to SNP voted Yes at the referendum? The maths adds up - the SNP got ~200,000 fewer votes at the GE than Yes votes in the indyref.

And it'd nice, just one time, to get an acknowledgement when correcting factually wrong statements (SNP victory required No voters), instead of just moving on to the next thing :-(

The SNP landslide at the GE did NOT require people that either abstained or voted NO.

However it would ridiculous to think that 1.4 million yes voters all also turned up at the general election and No voters took a nose dive in the millions.

 

[8bit]

Fair point indeed. It is easy to get hot headed at times. I mean you can understand it as minor political party differences aside, every now and then something genuinely huge comes along (referendums for one).

People get antsy and understandably turned on about what their short to mid term future might look like.



This is influenced by the turnouts as well

84.6% for referendum.
71.1% for general election.

I can agree to disagree, I just genuinely and anecdotally (from chatter around Glasgow) believe there was NO voters who were happy to vote SNP in the GE.

Just to back this up, I believe there are people that think the SNP are doing a good job in the Scottish Parliament but don't want the country to split up. Not to mention Scottish Labour are still a bit of a mess these days.

 

[Audioboxer]

The SNP landslide at the GE did NOT require people that either abstained or voted NO.

However it would ridiculous to think that 1.4 million yes voters all also turned up at the general election and No voters took a nose dive in the millions.

Well they probably couldn't be bothered to wheel as many of the old folks out of retirement homes for the general election versus the referendum!

Just to back this up, I believe there are people that think the SNP are doing a good job in the Scottish Parliament but don't want the country to split up. Not to mention Scottish Labour are still a bit of a mess these days.

This is true. It's why I believe you could be determined to keep the UK together and be a staunch Labour/Conservative voter for years (who said NO), but this time around just utterly dismayed at the state of Labour in Scotland, and pissed off at the conservatives country wide, and voted SNP. Especially with the change up from Salmond to Sturgeon. She is miles better, and did do well to appeal to younger mothers/women in general in the run up to the GE.

 

[PJV3]

I can't see the tories sending Cameron to the negotiations if we vote out, the party just don't trust him on Europe as it is.

That will be 2 years of madness with a possibly independent Scotland negotiating at the same time.

 

[8bit]

I can't see the tories sending Cameron to the negotiations if we vote out, the party just don't trust him on Europe as it is.

That will be 2 years of madness with a possibly independent Scotland negotiating at the same time.

If there's an out vote Cameron is toast.

edit!

Cameron pretty much implied on re-election this time round it's his last run.

Be interesting to see if he walks or indeed is pushed early if Out wins

Yeah, IIRC he said if Scotland voted Yes he would have walked, obviously he didn't say this at the time though.

 

[liquidtmd]

If there's an out vote Cameron is toast.

Cameron pretty much implied on re-election this time round it's his last run.

Be interesting to see if he walks or indeed is pushed early if Out wins

 

[kmag]

You don't really have any data to back up that assertion and there are alternative explanations (which also have no data).

While obviously anecdotal, I know of a bunch of No voters who voted SNP at the last GE. Most would still vote No if given the chance. You have to understand that despite a myriad of issues, the SNP are pretty professional and are halfway competent at running the government. Sturgeon is a very good retail politician. Despite Ruth Davidson being pretty effective the Tories are still verboten for pretty much everyone except the farming belt in the Borders, and Scottish Labour makes the national Labour party look like a bastion of peaceful, harmonious and effective governance. I think their next Scottish Leader will be selected by some form of Hunger Games.

The Lib Dems while locally popular in places got tarred with the Tory brush and have been largely wiped out.

If Scotland is a one party state it's largely due to the failures of the other parties* The independence thing obviously helps the SNP who've hoovered up a lot of extra support on the back of it, but my gut feeling is that they've also got a bunch of ex Lib Dem and ex Labour voters who aren't supporters of independence.

*Which is a bit harsh on the Tories who've been well led and pretty consistent (while Scotland is only marginally to the left of the rest of the UK, the Scottish Conservatives under Davidson are probably far more naturally centrist in their outlook that their Southern cousins). Davidson is often pretty uncomfortable defending the party line on some polices up here. I've met her a couple of times, she's actually pretty sound and pretty personable.

 

[Audioboxer]

While obviously anecdotal, I know of a bunch of No voters who voted SNP at the last GE. Most would still vote No if given the chance. You have to understand that despite a myriad of issues, the SNP are pretty professional and are halfway competent at running the government. Sturgeon is a very good retail politician. Despite Ruth Davidson being pretty effective the Tories are still verboten for pretty much everyone except the farming belt in the Borders, and Scottish Labour makes the national Labour party look like a bastion of peaceful, harmonious and effective governance. I think their next Scottish Leader will be selected by some form of Hunger Games.

The Lib Dems while locally popular in places got tarred with the Tory brush and have been largely wiped out.

If Scotland is a one party state it's largely due to the failures of the other parties* The independence thing obviously helps the SNP who've hoovered up a lot of extra support on the back of it, but my gut feeling is that they've also got a bunch of ex Lib Dem and ex Labour voters who aren't supporters of independence.

*Which is a bit harsh on the Tories who've been well led and pretty consistent (while Scotland is only marginally to the left of the rest of the UK, the Scottish Conservatives under Davidson are probably far more naturally centrist in their outlook that their Southern cousins). Davidson is often pretty uncomfortable defending the party line on some polices up here. I've met her a couple of times, she's actually pretty sound and pretty personable.

It's why I wish other grass-roots parties really had a chance of kicking off up here. By in large Scotland is just rejecting a lot of the cronies from Westminster and I believe the best opposition would be either new parties, or if Labour/Conservatives could really cut ties with down south and operate fully independently as Labour-Scotland & Conservative-Scotland (I know they do in a sense, but it still feels like they are puppets for London). Who knows. The political scene is just a bit whacky up here. I do agree many want to stay in the UK, obviously the majority at the last vote, but we seem to want the UK to be different than it is. Unfortunately "British Values" is the airhorn south of the border and it alienates people who feel Scotland has it's own values (or values that clash with some of the British Values malarky, which can seem to come across as "English/London" Values), but also want to be part of the UK.

Hence why I think NO voters could easily stomach voting SNP to appeal to what we in large want up here (and probably want for most of the UK). I'm not talking some sense of nationalism when I say Scottish Values, but things like free education, free prescriptions, good student support, not demonizing poor and sick and other things that have become part of what Scotland thinks is fair for the people and will defend.

Jeremy Corbyn is appealing to those values in Scots up here, but the Labour party is in such disarray they are almost non-votable as there's no confidence what Corbyn wants is what the party will get behind. Trident is a biggie. Big shouts up here to scrap it, an SNP party fully behind that, but pretty much Corbyn and only a few he can muster supporting it.

Tactically one area I will agree Sturgeon has played Scottish voters to good effect is routinely saying that we won't accept business as usual from Cameron. But to be fair there, it's been a while now Scotland have just on mass disapproved of the Conservatives. Labour was always the biggest SNP challenge here. Ed Milliband nuked that when he refused to align with the SNP to take on the Torries. That was suicide in Scotland.

 

[Nick Laslett]

David Cameron is pro-EU purely cos of the hole he dug himself promising this referendum out of fear of UKIP.

Is this what you really believe? Seriously?

 

[CyclopsRock]

I think a little bit of common sense can be applied. Massive swings from Tory/Labour camps and those who must have changed allegiance clearly on the whole voted for independence, right?

Cmon. Simple politics. When have Labour and the Conservatives ever been pro-Scottish independence? If you were massively pro-independence for Scotland during the independence vote chances are you were already SNP.

Sure there is crossover, but lots of it? Fat chance. Yes everyone knows someone who is Labour/Conservative and pro-independence, but your roots in your political party tend to align fairly similarly to what your party wants, and being part of the UK is massively what Labour and the Conservatives want.

Sure, I'm not saying it's not feasible, but there are other explanations which IMO are also valid and in reality it's likely some combination.

For example, consider the fact that the SNP became the the largest party in the Scottish Parliament back in 2011, ousting Labour as the largest party, long before the Independence Referendum. In that election they received a *voteshare* swing of 13% to a total of 44%. In the GE 2015 they got a *voteshare* of 50% - this isn't so much larger, especially when one considers that generally the hardest problem that smaller parties need to overcome in a FPTP system is the idea that a vote for them is a waste. If the SNP did well enough in the PR election of the Scottish Parliament to demonstrate significant public support, this problem is aided massively. Suddenly people think "hey, I don't need to vote tactically any more - I have faith that the SNP might win!"

They also got more voted than any other party in the EU Parliament elections in 2014, before the Independence Referendum.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong. But what I think is the case is that there are a number of trends to suggest that the SNPs voteshare was about to go up a lot in 2015 anyway, because it had in every other election in Scotland since 2010 too. With FPTP, the difference between a small seat gain and a landslide is a few percent one way or the other.

 

[PJV3]

If there's an out vote Cameron is toast.

edit!



Yeah, IIRC he said if Scotland voted Yes he would have walked, obviously he didn't say this at the time though.

And Liam Fox Is the favourite amongst the party(according to todays Guardian) to replace him

The North and London will be the next lot to leave.

 

[grandmastashi]

In.

 

[Beefy]

And Liam Fox Is the favourite amongst the party(according to todays Guardian) to replace him

The North and London will be the next lot to leave.

Never even heard of the guy.

 

[kmag]

And Liam Fox Is the favourite amongst the party(according to todays Guardian) to replace him

The North and London will be the next lot to leave.

The thought of Liam Fox as PM fills me with dread. Truly a man sans a soul. Although Tories rarely go for the frontrunner, normally the rest of them fall upon the favourite and devour his bones, kill his children and leave the remains as a warning to others.

 

[Audioboxer]

Sure, I'm not saying it's not feasible, but there are other explanations which IMO are also valid and in reality it's likely some combination.

For example, consider the fact that the SNP became the the largest party in the Scottish Parliament back in 2011, ousting Labour as the largest party, long before the Independence Referendum. In that election they received a *voteshare* swing of 13% to a total of 44%. In the GE 2015 they got a *voteshare* of 50% - this isn't so much larger, especially when one considers that generally the hardest problem that smaller parties need to overcome in a FPTP system is the idea that a vote for them is a waste. If the SNP did well enough in the PR election of the Scottish Parliament to demonstrate significant public support, this problem is aided massively. Suddenly people think "hey, I don't need to vote tactically any more - I have faith that the SNP might win!"

They also got more voted than any other party in the EU Parliament elections in 2014, before the Independence Referendum.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong. But what I think is the case is that there are a number of trends to suggest that the SNPs voteshare was about to go up a lot in 2015 anyway, because it had in every other election in Scotland since 2010 too. With FPTP, the difference between a small seat gain and a landslide is a few percent one way or the other.

Certainly, I'll agree there.

I do think though as my rant above suggests Labour voters up here genuinely got pissed off with Millibands campaign and refusal to take on the conservatives with the SNP on matters the Scottish thought were important.

I genuinely think if Corbyn had been in charge at least in Scotland during the GE Labour would have faired better. The difficulty for him now is the SNP has a choke-hold grip due to the landslide and the longer time has gone on since he took charge the more confusing and messy it becomes at the inability for Labour to all get on track together. Instead of there being various pockets of factions.

Anyway I apologize for going completely off-topic from this vote in a sense. Although I guess it's all linked one way or the other when considering voter behaviour during the EU referendum.

 

[Heartfyre]

The pound is in the toilet today.

Imagine how bad it'd get if an Out vote wins.

 

[amanset]

?

If she's a Scot that was ineligible to vote due to living in England then her citizenship wouldn't have changed.

British before, British after.

Everyone whose citizenship would have changed (i.e. everyone living in Scotland) had a vote.



I think you're misreading that. Your mother would qualify for Scottish citizenship automatically. Her citizenship wouldn't automatically have changed to Scottish.

I didn't say she'd stop being British. Her Citizenship would change, she'd have become Scottish and British with her having no say whatsoever in it.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

BBC

David Cameron is looking like he will become a minority leader as over half of the Conservative party are expected to back the 'out' campaign, and there seems to be a real wind of momentum going with the out campaign

Best thing for the In campaign IMO. Cameron is often seen as a soft conservative by the people and his party, so the people who want out are presumably going to be the Thatcherite tories, who are the nasty face of the tory party for many people.

 

[dan2026]

I just don't get why people would want us to leave the EU.

It would destroy the economy. Hell it would destroy everything.

 

[liquidtmd]

The pound is in the toilet today.

Imagine how bad it'd get if an Out vote wins.

Not to say you're wrong, but today's tumble is partly caused by the prospect of a Out result in the context of the uncertainty it brings. No one knows what exact changes would need to be made at this point in the light of such a result and markets do not like uncertainty above anything else. Saying the Pound will be in the toilet solely because of an Out vote citing market behaviour 120+ days beforehand is a false equivalence.

 

[amanset]

I just don't get why people would want us to leave the EU.

It would destroy the economy. Hell it would destroy everything.

Because people are convinced that things will remain the same as they are now.

Hell, my Parents were arguing that no companies would move their headquarters from London as it would be against international law to punish a country. Or something. When you're dealing with that level of madness ... I don't know.

To be honest - and this will probably be controversial - I don't think there should be a referendum as, quite simply, the man in the street is utterly ignorant of the issues and still will by the time comes to the referendum. This is too important to be left in the hands with morons who are still convinced about Brussels meddling or the ease of being able to go on holiday.

 

[Portugeezer]

In.

But but terrorism. Embarrassing to hear.

Out


Just to see what people will moan about next.

That is probably the best argument I have seen to vote out... I am genuinely intrigued.

 

[Dougald]

That is probably the best argument I have seen to vote out... I am genuinely intrigued.

Whatever will the Daily Mail put on their front page?

 

[OriginalThinking]

Best thing for the In campaign IMO. Cameron is often seen as a soft conservative by the people and his party, so the people who want out are presumably going to be the Thatcherite tories, who are the nasty face of the tory party for many people.

It's going to be interesting to see what this does to the party. The defining issue and cause of much infighting over the past 25 years for the Conservatives has been Europe. Will this referendum further widen the cracks after the resolution of the vote or will they combine to create a singular voice? I think the former...

 

[Inversive]

in

 

[liquidtmd]

Because people are convinced that things will remain the same as they are now.

Hell, my Parents were arguing that no companies would move their headquarters from London as it would be against international law to punish a country. Or something. When you're dealing with that level of madness ... I don't know.

To be honest - and this will probably be controversial - I don't think there should be a referendum as, quite simply, the man in the street is utterly ignorant of the issues and still will by the time comes to the referendum. This is too important to be left in the hands with morons who are still convinced about Brussels meddling or the ease of being able to go on holiday.

The problem is, Brussels do meddle. To say they don't is going against testomony of business leaders, Senior politicians and people in Industry who say they meddle. To simplify this and say 'its only the man on the street who thinks this' is wrong. People in all parts of the spectrum are saying there are problems with the accountability and nature of Brussels' leadership.

Its the job of the In campaign to not ignore this argument, but to say we are still better off and detail clearly the benefits of the Union in spite of such interference. The In campaign need to be brave and tackle the 'Brussels inteference' question head on, because if they just flat out deny its there its just going to annoy the crucial floating voters

 

[amanset]

The problem is, Brussels do meddle. To say they don't is going against testomony of business leaders, Senior politicians and people in Industry who say they meddle. To simplify this and say 'its only the man on the street who thinks this' is wrong. People in all parts of the spectrum are saying there are problems with the accountability and nature of Brussels' leadership.

Its the job of the In campaign to not ignore this argument, but to say we are still better off and detail clearly the benefits of the Union in spite of such interference. The In campaign need to be brave and tackle the 'Brussels inteference' question head on, because if they just flat out deny its there its just going to annoy
the crucial floating voters

Ask a man in a pub about Brussels Meddling and you've a very high chance of them saying something about bananas or cucumbers. That's what we're having to deal with. Ignorance.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

I didn't say she'd stop being British. Her Citizenship would change, she'd have become Scottish and British with her having no say whatsoever in it.

Yeah, I don't think that's true. She'd just be British still. She could apply for Scottish citizenship if she wanted. She wouldn't "have become" Scottish and British unless she wanted to.

Look, I was didn't want Scotland to become independent, and I thought that there were plenty of things that the Yes campaign either hadn't thought through properly or provided satisfactory answers to, but this point is silly. The new Scottish Government weren't going to send out starter packs to the entire Scottish diaspora with their new Scottish passport. It'd be up to each person to apply if they a) met one of the criteria, and b) wanted to.

 

[Lirlond]

Can we just shut up about the SNP and referenda in Scotland until the Holyrood elections are over with?

If the SNP get yet another majority government in a PR system on the basis of an independence vote then they'll have the will of the people to pursue it. Not before, and if they don't receive a majority only if they form a coalition with parties /also/ promising independence.(SGP and SSP I think)

Otherwise this thread is about the EU referendum.

 

[Heartfyre]

Not to say you're wrong, but today's tumble is partly caused by the prospect of a Out result in the context of the uncertainty it brings. No one knows what exact changes would need to be made at this point in the light of such a result and markets do not like uncertainty above anything else. Saying the Pound will be in the toilet solely because of an Out vote citing market behaviour 120+ days beforehand is a false equivalence.

As you say, the markets hate uncertainty, but no matter how many policies are clarified before the referendum, the full scope of the economic impact of leaving the EU cannot be known beforehand since the entire situation is completely unprecedented. You can be sure the market will only take it negatively. Of course, the effect of a Brexit on the market will vary depending on expectations of the result in the immediate period beforehand, and wax and wane depending on whatever extra terms of the exit are qualified before the vote. Yet in only 120+ days, I cannot fathom a situation where there would be a gain in the pound in light of a Brexit becoming reality -- just various shades of red.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Never even heard of the guy.

He's my constituency's MP unfortunately.

 

[liquidtmd]

Ask a man in a pub about Brussels Meddling and you've a very high chance of them saying something about bananas or cucumbers. That's what we're having to deal with. Ignorance.

Touche

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Ask a man in a pub about Brussels Meddling and you've a very high chance of them saying something about bananas or cucumbers. That's what we're having to deal with. Ignorance.

I went to a pub like that once.

 

[amanset]

Yeah, I don't think that's true. She'd just be British still. She could apply for Scottish citizenship if she wanted. She wouldn't "have become" Scottish and British unless she wanted to.

Look, I was didn't want Scotland to become independent, and I thought that there were plenty of things that the Yes campaign either hadn't thought through properly or provided satisfactory answers to, but this point is silly. The new Scottish Government weren't going to send out starter packs to the entire Scottish diaspora with their new Scottish passport. It'd be up to each person to apply if they a) met one of the criteria, and b) wanted to.

No. They were automatically considered Scottish. I even linked to the relevant page on the referendum website. Here it is again:

http://www.scotreferendum.com/quest...nts-proposals-and-who-will-qualify-for-these/

Current Status at the date of independence:
British citizen habitually resident in Scotland on day one of independence Scottish Citizenship?
– Yes, automatically a Scottish citizen
British citizens born in Scotland but living outside of Scotland on day one of independence Scottish Citizenship?
- Yes, automatically a Scottish citizen

It was people like me, born outside Scotland with one parent who would have been automatically made a citizen, that would have needed to apply:

British national living outside Scotland with at least one parent who qualifies for Scottish citizenship Scottish Citizenship?
– Can register as a Scottish citizen (will need to provide evidence to substantiate)

And finally, they are quite clear that it would be automatic with no need to apply/register if you are one of the people considered automatically:

http://www.scotreferendum.com/quest...itizen-would-there-be-a-registration-process/

As outlined above, all British citizens who are habitually resident in Scotland at the date of independence and all British citizens born in Scotland but resident elsewhere would automatically be considered a Scottish citizen. There would be no registration required and there are no plans to have a Scottish ID card.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

No. They were automatically considered Scottish. I even linked to the relevant page on the referendum website. Here it is again:

http://www.scotreferendum.com/quest...nts-proposals-and-who-will-qualify-for-these/

It was people like me, born outside Scotland with one parent who would have been automatically made a citizen, that would have needed to apply:

And finally, they are quite clear that it would be automatic with no need to apply/register if you are one of the people considered automatically:

http://www.scotreferendum.com/quest...itizen-would-there-be-a-registration-process/

Ok I've read that three times now...and...it seems like you're right. But that just seems mental! How would the Scottish Government have the power to do that?

Can we just shut up about the SNP and referenda in Scotland until the Holyrood elections are over with?

If the SNP get yet another majority government in a PR system on the basis of an independence vote then they'll have the will of the people to pursue it. Not before, and if they don't receive a majority only if they form a coalition with parties /also/ promising independence.(SGP and SSP I think)

Otherwise this thread is about the EU referendum.

I'm just going to agree with this now.

 

[Steve.1981]

To be honest - and this will probably be controversial - I don't think there should be a referendum as, quite simply, the man in the street is utterly ignorant of the issues and still will by the time comes to the referendum. This is too important to be left in the hands with morons who are still convinced about Brussels meddling or the ease of being able to go on holiday.

I think I might agree with this. I'm pretty certain I'll not be voting because I have no idea exactly what would change if we vote no. I completely ignore the "daily mail" style headlines, about how we have no control over our borders and Brussels sets all our laws, on principle. But how can the average guy (me) properly educate himself on this issue, and so make an informed choice with his vote? I'm seriously asking.

 

[Any Questions]

I can't see the tories sending Cameron to the negotiations if we vote out, the party just don't trust him on Europe as it is.

That will be 2 years of madness with a possibly independent Scotland negotiating at the same time.

It will be total anarchy. Madness indeed

 

[amanset]

Ok I've read that three times now...and...it seems like you're right. But that just seems mental! How would the Scottish Government have the power to do that?

Christ knows. At least we won't need to know for a while.

I had always decided that I was going to apply for citizenship if ti was a yes vote, as I do have strong connections to the place. But now I'm going to be (hopefully) dual British/Swedish. Can you have three citizenships?

 

[hal9001]

To be honest - and this will probably be controversial - I don't think there should be a referendum as, quite simply, the man in the street is utterly ignorant of the issues and still will by the time comes to the referendum. This is too important to be left in the hands with morons who are still convinced about Brussels meddling or the ease of being able to go on holiday.

Maybe so, but the man of the street is still a citizen of the country and has equal vote just like anybody else. Who are you to say otherwise? I don't understand this line of thinking. So many people have died for the right for people to exercise their free will whether it be right or wrong. It flies against the idea of democracy. Dictators of history share the same view.

 

[Best]

Maybe so, but the man of the street is still a citizen of the country and has equal vote just like anybody else. Who are you to say otherwise? I don't understand this line of thinking. So many people have died for the right for people to exercise their free will whether it be right or wrong. It flies against the idea of democracy. Dictators of history share the same view.

Men didn't die so the perennially uninformed masses can take us out of the EU on the back of spurious Daily Mail headlines