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[Breads]

Well normally people would flame, but Naughty Dog gets a free pass as one of the most respected game companies out there... That's just the way it is and it shouldn't be truthfully.

I was referring to Vulva's evaluation of the lip service apology.

They addressed the situation, apologized, changed the video, and are taking their lumps. What more did they want out of ND?

I do indeed say good on them. They didn't try to sweep it under the rug with a stealth edit. They called attention to it and did what they reasonably should have.

 

[cpp_is_king]

Yea that's 100% relatable to this issue.

Man some of you are out of your minds. Acting like ND got together and decided to steal a concept peice... This is not how development works.

Also most of the time the developer doesnt even do the trailer, generally the publisher does and its out of the artists hands at times.

I garuntee you they had hundreds of concept paintings of a tropical environment around. They have some of the best concept guys in the business.

He's not talking about ND as a whole, he's talking about the one guy, who is just a needle in a haystack of artists, who did this. That guy is a bottom feeder sack of shit. ND is fine

 

[pixellated_man]

As a game developer, I can see how this accidentally happened. Making games and trailers, you put in placeholder art that doesn't really matter until you get the final work in, so that you can at least get started on something. With sound effects, for example, I've learned to get some sort of sound in as quickly as possible so that you have SOME feedback, and then as you playtest and iterate, you can create your own sound effects/assets as you get further away from prototyping. For example, with that painting, early on in the trailer process, they probably didn't know for sure that that shot would be in the final trailer, so instead of having an artist potentially waste a bunch of time making an art asset, you grab something off google as placeholder to see if the shot even works. Don't waste your time polishing a (potential) turd.

Now, that said, they should have been aware of what was placeholder, so that they could replace it before actually launching the trailer. But I could see how things slip through the cracks. And they apologized and changed it, so good on them.



Yup, all the time. It's how you quickly iterate and prototype.

See: this tweet, showing an early version of Firewatch, with dialogue from the terrible movie The Room, as placeholder dialogue: https://twitter.com/Nelsormensch/status/701857597872173056

Sadly, I think your excellent post will be brushed off by many in the 'ND are thieves' camp. The fact that you are a developer (who has experience in the field) will not mean one iota to them as their agenda is not really about the ethical side of this controversy.

 

[Servbot24]

I take it personally because I have had my photos stolen and I have friends and acquaintances who've had their own work stolen and plagiarized. People who do it are bottom feeders.

Oh please. You know very well that's not what happened here. ND have among the best, if not the best concept artists in the industry. There is plenty of original concept art they could have used, someone just got them mixed up. This is the fault of whoever directed the trailer choosing an image out of the wrong folder, or missing a placeholder image. They weren't rubbing their hands together and diabolically exclaiming "muahahaha i'm going to steal their arts >:]"

 

[GrizzNKev]

As a game developer, I can see how this accidentally happened. Making games and trailers, you put in placeholder art that doesn't really matter until you get the final work in, so that you can at least get started on something. With sound effects, for example, I've learned to get some sort of sound in as quickly as possible so that you have SOME feedback, and then as you playtest and iterate, you can create your own sound effects/assets as you get further away from prototyping. For example, with that painting, early on in the trailer process, they probably didn't know for sure that that shot would be in the final trailer, so instead of having an artist potentially waste a bunch of time making an art asset, you grab something off google as placeholder to see if the shot even works. Don't waste your time polishing a (potential) turd.

Now, that said, they should have been aware of what was placeholder, so that they could replace it before actually launching the trailer. But I could see how things slip through the cracks. And they apologized and changed it, so good on them.



Yup, all the time. It's how you quickly iterate and prototype.

See: this tweet, showing an early version of Firewatch, with dialogue from the terrible movie The Room, as placeholder dialogue: https://twitter.com/Nelsormensch/status/701857597872173056

Yup. I am 99% sure this is what happened, and was my guess before ND changed the trailer, which pretty much solidifies it.

 

[cheesekao]

As a game developer, I can see how this accidentally happened. Making games and trailers, you put in placeholder art that doesn't really matter until you get the final work in, so that you can at least get started on something. With sound effects, for example, I've learned to get some sort of sound in as quickly as possible so that you have SOME feedback, and then as you playtest and iterate, you can create your own sound effects/assets as you get further away from prototyping. For example, with that painting, early on in the trailer process, they probably didn't know for sure that that shot would be in the final trailer, so instead of having an artist potentially waste a bunch of time making an art asset, you grab something off google as placeholder to see if the shot even works. Don't waste your time polishing a (potential) turd.

Now, that said, they should have been aware of what was placeholder, so that they could replace it before actually launching the trailer. But I could see how things slip through the cracks. And they apologized and changed it, so good on them.



Yup, all the time. It's how you quickly iterate and prototype.

See: this tweet, showing an early version of Firewatch, with dialogue from the terrible movie The Room, as placeholder dialogue: https://twitter.com/Nelsormensch/status/701857597872173056

This can't be quoted enough. ND made a mistake and they owned up for it but some people are acting like they caused a nuclear holocaust or something.

 

[Salz01]

As a game developer, I can see how this accidentally happened. Making games and trailers, you put in placeholder art that doesn't really matter until you get the final work in, so that you can at least get started on something. With sound effects, for example, I've learned to get some sort of sound in as quickly as possible so that you have SOME feedback, and then as you playtest and iterate, you can create your own sound effects/assets as you get further away from prototyping. For example, with that painting, early on in the trailer process, they probably didn't know for sure that that shot would be in the final trailer, so instead of having an artist potentially waste a bunch of time making an art asset, you grab something off google as placeholder to see if the shot even works. Don't waste your time polishing a (potential) turd.

Now, that said, they should have been aware of what was placeholder, so that they could replace it before actually launching the trailer. But I could see how things slip through the cracks. And they apologized and changed it, so good on them.



Yup, all the time. It's how you quickly iterate and prototype.

See: this tweet, showing an early version of Firewatch, with dialogue from the terrible movie The Room, as placeholder dialogue: https://twitter.com/Nelsormensch/status/701857597872173056

I'm sure 10000% this is the truth. It was a mistake. Anybody trying to make it a controversy has way too much time on their hands. They need to put that energy into finding a cure for cancer.

 

[Goose_Se7en]

Ellie looks like Ellen Page, sounds like Ellen Page, and her name is 'Ellie'. Nobody really cared because the game was so good, but it is fucked up to use someone's likeness without their permission. Ellen Page is a young actress that is clearly willing to act in video games. If they wanted the main character of their game to look and sound like Ellen Page maybe they should have hired Ellen Page.

I agree with you in that they tried to use Ellen Page's likeness for Ellie but taking sometime to read and peruse some of the posts it just seems to me like some Gaffers were just chomping at the bit to throw shade at ND's way.

I mean c'mon does anyone really think ND meant to steal AC IV's concept art? Like c'mon this is a reputable game developer with a storied history, some may argue the best PS3 dev last gen.

I know I'm coming across as very naive as I should know how the Internets work but I just don't get the vitriol against them all of a sudden.

 

[Lys Skygge]

As a game developer, I can see how this accidentally happened. Making games and trailers, you put in placeholder art that doesn't really matter until you get the final work in, so that you can at least get started on something. With sound effects, for example, I've learned to get some sort of sound in as quickly as possible so that you have SOME feedback, and then as you playtest and iterate, you can create your own sound effects/assets as you get further away from prototyping. For example, with that painting, early on in the trailer process, they probably didn't know for sure that that shot would be in the final trailer, so instead of having an artist potentially waste a bunch of time making an art asset, you grab something off google as placeholder to see if the shot even works. Don't waste your time polishing a (potential) turd.

Now, that said, they should have been aware of what was placeholder, so that they could replace it before actually launching the trailer. But I could see how things slip through the cracks. And they apologized and changed it, so good on them.



Yup, all the time. It's how you quickly iterate and prototype.

See: this tweet, showing an early version of Firewatch, with dialogue from the terrible movie The Room, as placeholder dialogue: https://twitter.com/Nelsormensch/status/701857597872173056

It's done in film as well. Here's the concept video for Looper

Notice how it uses stock images, videos, clips from other films, etc as placeholders? Why do people question this? It's obvious that someone at ND forgot to replace a placeholder.

 

[icespide]

Ellie looks like Ellen Page, sounds like Ellen Page, and her name is 'Ellie'. Nobody really cared because the game was so good, but it is fucked up to use someone's likeness without their permission. Ellen Page is a young actress that is clearly willing to act in video games. If they wanted the main character of their game to look and sound like Ellen Page maybe they should have hired Ellen Page.

uh to my memory there were a ton of articles about this issue, Ellen Page even called it out in a reddit AMA. I'd consider this "not a pass" but I guess I don't know what exactly constitutes a "pass" for you. What should they/consumers of video games have done to satisfy your pound of flesh?

 

[Boke1879]

Just shows this industry are just full of people like me and you. Who make mistakes but aren't above to owning up to it. Hopefully they take this experience and learn from it.

 

[Uno Venova]

As a game developer, I can see how this accidentally happened. Making games and trailers, you put in placeholder art that doesn't really matter until you get the final work in, so that you can at least get started on something. With sound effects, for example, I've learned to get some sort of sound in as quickly as possible so that you have SOME feedback, and then as you playtest and iterate, you can create your own sound effects/assets as you get further away from prototyping. For example, with that painting, early on in the trailer process, they probably didn't know for sure that that shot would be in the final trailer, so instead of having an artist potentially waste a bunch of time making an art asset, you grab something off google as placeholder to see if the shot even works. Don't waste your time polishing a (potential) turd.

Now, that said, they should have been aware of what was placeholder, so that they could replace it before actually launching the trailer. But I could see how things slip through the cracks. And they apologized and changed it, so good on them.



Yup, all the time. It's how you quickly iterate and prototype.

See: this tweet, showing an early version of Firewatch, with dialogue from the terrible movie The Room, as placeholder dialogue: https://twitter.com/Nelsormensch/status/701857597872173056

Acknowledging this was a simple placeholder mistake isn't as interesting as the disgusting thieves and anyone who see's otherwise is a defense force angle tho

 

[Ricky_R]

Ellie looks like Ellen Page, sounds like Ellen Page, and her name is 'Ellie'. Nobody really cared because the game was so good, but it is fucked up to use someone's likeness without their permission. Ellen Page is a young actress that is clearly willing to act in video games. If they wanted the main character of their game to look and sound like Ellen Page maybe they should have hired Ellen Page.

Ehh, that was definitely not a pass.

 

[old manatee]

uh to my memory there were a ton of articles about this issue, Ellen Page even called it out in a reddit AMA. I'd consider this "not a pass" but I guess I don't know what exactly constitutes a "pass" for you. What should they/consumers of video games have done to satisfy your pound of flesh?

If they didn't have to pay Ellen Page for that, then they got a pass.

 

[labaronx]

So acknowledging their mistake, apologizing about mistake, and fixing mistake, doesn't seem to be enough for some of you, maybe canceling Uncharted 4 will make some of you happy,.....


#notthatserious

 

[Wookieomg]

As a game developer, I can see how this accidentally happened. Making games and trailers, you put in placeholder art that doesn't really matter until you get the final work in, so that you can at least get started on something. With sound effects, for example, I've learned to get some sort of sound in as quickly as possible so that you have SOME feedback, and then as you playtest and iterate, you can create your own sound effects/assets as you get further away from prototyping. For example, with that painting, early on in the trailer process, they probably didn't know for sure that that shot would be in the final trailer, so instead of having an artist potentially waste a bunch of time making an art asset, you grab something off google as placeholder to see if the shot even works. Don't waste your time polishing a (potential) turd.

Now, that said, they should have been aware of what was placeholder, so that they could replace it before actually launching the trailer. But I could see how things slip through the cracks. And they apologized and changed it, so good on them.



Yup, all the time. It's how you quickly iterate and prototype.

See: this tweet, showing an early version of Firewatch, with dialogue from the terrible movie The Room, as placeholder dialogue: https://twitter.com/Nelsormensch/status/701857597872173056

Agreed 10000%

 

[Red Hood]

Takes courage to man up to those mistakes and apologise. Kudos to ND. Hopefully Ubisoft won't make any big deal of it and just laugh it off.

 

[Raylan]

If they didn't have to pay Ellen Page for that, then they got a pass.

In the end, Ellie in TLOU doesn't look like Ellen Page and sounds like Ashley Johnson.

 

[icespide]

If they didn't have to pay Ellen Page for that, then they got a pass.

Ellen Page herself didn't even feel like it was worth suing over

 

[Xion86]

Wow everyone's losing their minds over this...

 

[Inuhanyou]

What is HAPPENING over at Naughty Dog!?

Spoiler

someone on the art team fucked up bad, he's prolly gonna get sent up a river somewhere, otherwise its a non issue

 

[Trogdor1123]

Ellen Page herself didn't even feel like it was worth suing over

Righteous indignation though!

 

[Off-Kilter]

So acknowledging their mistake, apologizing about mistake, and fixing mistake, doesn't seem to be enough for some of you, maybe canceling Uncharted 4 will make some of you happy,.....


#notthatserious

I'm genuinely curious as to what the remaining upset/angry people in this thread actually want at this point.

 

[Trogdor1123]

I'm genuinely curious as to what the remaining upset/angry people in this thread actually want at this point.

To appear morally superior maybe? Shouldn't it be ubisofts call and literally no one else's?

 

[odhiex]

It was a mistake and an honest appology.

Seems fair to me...

 

[Angel_DvA]

You know ND make something great video game wise when haters use something like this to put them down...

 

[Eggbok]

Wow everyone's losing their minds over this...

The fact that ND apologized and people are still in their feelings over it is amazing lol.
Acting like the entire studio had a group meeting and decided to use concept art from AC.

 

[samar11]

I'm genuinely curious as to what the remaining upset/angry people in this thread actually want at this point.

I think they never liked ND to begin with

 

[Raylan]

I'm genuinely curious as to what the remaining upset/angry people in this thread actually want at this point.

An ice burger.

 

[Poimandres]

This is unforunate, and deserved to be acknowledged, but the place holder explanation makes perfect sense. It's highly amusing that some are trying to make this some grand thievery conspiracy!

 

[ProfessorMoran]

What happened was wrong and unacceptable and I'm glad ND addressed this article, that said Ubisoft should just fuck off with all the fucking clunky games they make.

 

[boredandlazy]

So acknowledging their mistake, apologizing about mistake, and fixing mistake, doesn't seem to be enough for some of you, maybe canceling Uncharted 4 will make some of you happy,.....


#notthatserious

Their honour is in tatters. Seppuku is now the only acceptable form of appeasement.

 

[icespide]

What happened was wrong and unacceptable and I'm glad ND addressed this article, that said Ubisoft should just fuck off with all the fucking clunky games they make.

well that's a weird thing to say

 

[Guess Who]

Their honour is in tatters. Seppuku is now the only acceptable form of appeasement.

I don't know how much you know about gamedev culture (I'm an expert), but

 

[Uno Venova]

If they didn't have to pay Ellen Page for that, then they got a pass.

So you're saying Ellen Paige herself gave ND a pass?

 

[lordfuzzybutt]

What happened was wrong and unacceptable and I'm glad ND addressed this article, that said Ubisoft should just fuck off with all the fucking clunky games they make.

Very relevant man.

 

[Darren_z33]

It's good ND fixed their mistake and apologised. I hope no one got fired over it and both companies just laughed it off.

I also Ubisoft put an Uncharted Easter egg in their next AC game, and vise versa for Uncharted 4.

 

[Goose_Se7en]

What happened was wrong and unacceptable and I'm glad ND addressed this article, that said Ubisoft should just fuck off with all the fucking clunky games they make.

 

[Ivan Amiibo]

Not the first time they've blatantly stolen.

Way Of The Warrior is a blatant mortal kombat clone. Wish more so-called "video game journalists" remembered that when handing out all those goty awards to them for TLOU.

 

[Clear]

I'm sure 10000% this is the truth. It was a mistake. Anybody trying to make it a controversy has way too much time on their hands. They need to put that energy into finding a cure for cancer.

What's really offensive to me is the hypocrisy of fixating on a single texture from a trailer containing literally thousands of textures and using that to make some kind of statement about artistic integrity and creativity.

If you actually care about art, you look at the work holistically, rather than myopically fixating on a single element in order to create a straw-man. The only reason to draw attention to this is to score "points" in some childish game.

That Eurogamer ran with this, and backstopped it with more cobbled-together bs in order to create a narrative of ND somehow being repeat offenders, is a real slap-in-the-face to all the talented folks in their art department.

To be brutally honest, if I was in charge at Sony/ND, this sort of tabloid muck-raking would be responded to by withdrawing any cooperation or support with the site in future.

 

[Y2Kev]

Ellie looks like Ellen Page, sounds like Ellen Page, and her name is 'Ellie'. Nobody really cared because the game was so good, but it is fucked up to use someone's likeness without their permission. Ellen Page is a young actress that is clearly willing to act in video games. If they wanted the main character of their game to look and sound like Ellen Page maybe they should have hired Ellen Page.

This is a bit strong. Ellie sounds like Ashley Johnson, who plays Ellie. She's not doing an Ellen Page impersonation.

Not the first time they've blatantly stolen.

Way Of The Warrior is a blatant mortal kombat clone. Wish more so-called "video game journalists" remembered that when handing out all those goty awards to them for TLOU.

If this is a joke, I really like it.

 

[icespide]

Not the first time they've blatantly stolen.

Way Of The Warrior is a blatant mortal kombat clone. Wish more so-called "video game journalists" remembered that when handing out all those goty awards to them for TLOU.

what does that have to do with TLOU?

 

[Movalpolos]

This is an amazing thread.

 

[Savinowned]

Is this for real or is this someone photoshopping the new ND art onto a Bob Ross photo

Dude.. Just look at it. Haha

 

[paperspace]

What's really offensive to me is the hypocrisy of fixating on a single texture from a trailer containing literally thousands of textures and using that to make some kind of statement about artistic integrity and creativity.

If you actually care about art, you look at the work holistically, rather than myopically fixating on a single element in order to create a straw-man. The only reason to draw attention to this is to score "points" in some childish game.

That Eurogamer ran with this, and backstopped it with more cobbled-together bs in order to create a narrative of ND somehow being repeat offenders, is a real slap-in-the-face to all the talented folks in their art department.

To be brutally honest, if I was in charge at Sony/ND, this sort of tabloid muck-raking would be responded to by withdrawing any cooperation or support with the site in future.

What ... that can't ... really?

 

[BoxManLocke]

Not the first time they've blatantly stolen.

Way Of The Warrior is a blatant mortal kombat clone. Wish more so-called "video game journalists" remembered that when handing out all those goty awards to them for TLOU.

Right, no way this is a mistake.

Using a tiny image in a split-second of a trailer is absolutely thievery and makes complete business sense in Naughty Dog's evil, evil mind.

Clearly ND thought this act of unspeakable evil would help sell more Uncharted games, somehow.

 

[RoboPlato]

What's really offensive to me is the hypocrisy of fixating on a single texture from a trailer containing literally thousands of textures and using that to make some kind of statement about artistic integrity and creativity.

If you actually care about art, you look at the work holistically, rather than myopically fixating on a single element in order to create a straw-man. The only reason to draw attention to this is to score "points" in some childish game.

That Eurogamer ran with this, and backstopped it with more cobbled-together bs in order to create a narrative of ND somehow being repeat offenders, is a real slap-in-the-face to all the talented folks in their art department.

To be brutally honest, if I was in charge at Sony/ND, this sort of tabloid muck-raking would be responded to by withdrawing any cooperation or support with the site in future.

Members of the Assassin's Creed team called this to ND's attention. Eurogamer just reported it, which game news sites are supposed to do. AAA devs don't fling accusations at each other like this often.

 

[Movalpolos]

Not the first time they've blatantly stolen.

Way Of The Warrior is a blatant mortal kombat clone. Wish more so-called "video game journalists" remembered that when handing out all those goty awards to them for TLOU.

You didn't even read the thread. Or the OP.

 

[Nameless]

As a game developer, I can see how this accidentally happened. Making games and trailers, you put in placeholder art that doesn't really matter until you get the final work in, so that you can at least get started on something. With sound effects, for example, I've learned to get some sort of sound in as quickly as possible so that you have SOME feedback, and then as you playtest and iterate, you can create your own sound effects/assets as you get further away from prototyping. For example, with that painting, early on in the trailer process, they probably didn't know for sure that that shot would be in the final trailer, so instead of having an artist potentially waste a bunch of time making an art asset, you grab something off google as placeholder to see if the shot even works. Don't waste your time polishing a (potential) turd.

Now, that said, they should have been aware of what was placeholder, so that they could replace it before actually launching the trailer. But I could see how things slip through the cracks. And they apologized and changed it, so good on them.



Yup, all the time. It's how you quickly iterate and prototype.

See: this tweet, showing an early version of Firewatch, with dialogue from the terrible movie The Room, as placeholder dialogue: https://twitter.com/Nelsormensch/status/701857597872173056

Get this rational ass shit outta here, Lo_Fi!

Spoiler

Great post

 

[The Goat]

I agree with most of you guys about it being a mistake. That it made it to Youtube, is the part that I can't believe. I'm sure this trailer was cut at least a couple days ago, so it had to have been shown around the office. You would have thought someone would have brought up the fact that there was "temp" art in the trailer.

Either way, they fixed it. Had it made it into the final game... well that would have been an interesting talk between Sony, ND and Ubisoft, hah.