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[Soyongdori]

DNC is rigged to hell in a favor of Hilldawg. She has a history of flip-flopping to get votes. She supported military intervention in Libya and Syria. The whole establishments supports her and I don't really believe anything what she preaches. That's my opinion of Hilldawg.

If that makes me a Hilldawg hater, then so be it.

 

[Trouble]

This is the problem I see with a lot of people that don't understand why Bernie supporters might not support Hilary. They see politics as a single spectrum with Bernie simply being more to the left than Hillary. I'm quite sure that most of the Bernie supporters who would not vote for Hilary don't see it that way. They like that Bernie is advocating for fundamental change to the political and economic system of the country, something that Hilary seems to be no better than the Republicans on. Merge that viewpoint with acceleration theory and viola, it's a fairly reasonable way to vote.

I understand the desire to cause massive upheaval in the system. I would love to see it. I personally just don't see any actual plan from Bernie that could possibly change anything in a meaningful way. To achieve his stated ends he needs a lot more than the presidency, he needs to create a new caucus and get allies elected to congress to enact the changes he promotes. Otherwise it's just tilting at windmills.

 

[ZackieChan]

This is actually an opinion of the matter. Do you think we are going to all of a sudden return to the dark ages if a Republican wins?

I see the same rhetoric elsewhere. "A Democrat CANNOT win", as if their freedoms will be in jeopardy. The whole thing is just ridiculous to me. Nothing will really happen except some money will shift elsewhere and some freedoms we enjoy (both liberal and conservative) will be eroded in the name of safety.

Have you SEEN the various threads on here about what will happen if a Republican wins? America implodes, etc. It's ridiculous hyperbole.

 

[BennyBlanco]

She's a boring, establishment candidate. Her efforts to appeal to young people have been embarrassing. She's not big on the internet but she'll do just fine with the older crowds who decide most elections anyway.

I still think she's gonna lose the general.

Have you SEEN the various threads on here about what will happen if a Republican wins? America implodes, etc. It's ridiculous hyperbole.

Of course it is and reasonable people just laugh it off.

 

[Kyosaiga]

This is partly Sanders fault for fuming the flames against the DNC, the very same people he's going to need to pass his legislation.

And this is also partly the fault of right-wing smears that have no basis in reality.

It's just people suffering from Hillary Derangement syndrome.

Pay them no mind.

 

[DominoKid]

Bernie stans talk a big game but with 8 months left that's plenty of time to suck up hurt feeling from the primary season L and fall in line for the real election.

 

[atr0cious]

"At-will" doesn't absolve any company from getting sued for wrongful termination.

Here is a list of states with voter laws that employers must adhere by to provide time off to vote.

http://www.findlaw.com/voting-rights-law.html

I don't know if you understand how that works. If you're going from one job to literally the next, one job can say you should've gone after work, while the other can say you should've went before, as an unspoken rule about holding multiple jobs is one job cannot stop you from doing your duties at another. And since the implication is sitting there, some are going to have to decide sometimes between keeping hours at their job or doing what they want to do. The question should be why isn't voting a national holiday? We wouldn't need any extraneous laws then, but that's beside the point.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

She supported Libya, and wants to continue fighting regimes abroad in Syria, has already derailed against Iran.

Simple fact is she is a candidate paid for by corporations and banks, and as such, she is beholden.

This is absolutely 100% correct.

You know the only person who actually talked about imposing price controls on drugs in this country instead of letting the pharmaceutical companies rob the country blind? Amazingly enough, it's Donald Trump. Hillary is silent on actual real healthcare reform, what a shock since the drug companies have paid for her long ago.

She also won't go after Wall Street either, she's as much a corporatist as Obama is and that's why she supported TPP in 2012. It's just that Obama is a lame duck and doesn't give a fuck but Hillary wants to be elected so she flipped her position on TPP.

 

[border]

Bernie supporters who won't vote for Hillary wouldn't have voted in the first place.

If yesterday is anything to go by, Bernie supporters wouldn't have voted for Bernie in the first place.

 

[ngower]

I don't deny that it exists, but I've really not seen hate to the extent which some purport. At its peak, the hate was simply frustration with the Hillary supporters' "inevitability" stuff and the lack of media coverage. I guess some people just carried it over?

I will say neither side is innocent. I repeatedly get belittled by Hillary supporters for choosing to elect Bernie, or some people will outright yell at me because I'm ruining her chances of being elected...it's so strange.

 

[ColdPizza]

Bernie supporters who won't vote for Hillary wouldn't have voted in the first place.

It's embarrassing how easily they've succumbed to right wing talking points.

Bernie supporters aren't even voting for Bernie. He's polling higher than the actual votes he's getting.

edit: Border above me agrees.

 

[The Lamonster]

If yesterday is anything to go by, Bernie supporters wouldn't have voted for Bernie in the first place.

Exactly. His turnout is terrible, which also proves that his "revolution" is impossible.

IMO the sooner he drops out, the better.

 

[Trouble]

Bernie supporters aren't even voting for Bernie. He's polling higher than the actual votes he's getting.

I had always assumed this would be the case for Trump more than any other candidate, but his supporters appear to actually be showing up. It's kind of terrifying.

 

[ColdPizza]

I don't know if you understand how that works. If you're going from one job to literally the next, one job can say you should've gone after work, while the other can say you should've went before, as an unspoken rule about holding multiple jobs is one job cannot stop you from doing your duties at another. And since the implication is sitting there, some are going to have to decide sometimes between keeping hours at their job or doing what they want to do. The question should be why isn't voting a national holiday? We wouldn't need any extraneous laws then, but that's beside the point.

I don't know then. How did everyone make it out to vote for Obama but not Congress?

 

[Kyosaiga]

This is absolutely 100% correct.

You know the only person who actually talked about imposing price controls on drugs in this country instead of letting the pharmaceutical companies rob the country blind? Amazingly enough, it's Donald Trump. Hillary is silent on actual real healthcare reform, what a shock since the drug companies have paid for her long ago.

She also won't go after Wall Street either, she's as much a corporatist as Obama is and that's why she supported TPP in 2012. It's just that Obama is a lame duck and doesn't give a fuck but Hillary wants to be elected so she flipped her position on TPP.

She won't go after Wall Street?

You do realize she's pissed them off numerous times throughout her career, right?

No, wait, of course you don't.

 

[MHWilliams]

If yesterday is anything to go by, Bernie supporters wouldn't have voted for Bernie in the first place.

Ouch.

I don't deny that it exists, but I've really not seen hate to the extent which some purport. At its peak, the hate was simply frustration with the Hillary supporters' "inevitability" stuff and the lack of media coverage. I guess some people just carried it over?

I will say neither side is innocent. I repeatedly get belittled by Hillary supporters for choosing to elect Bernie, or some people will outright yell at me because I'm ruining her chances of being elected...it's so strange.

You're not hurting her chances. It's the primary, vote for who you want. But part of the primary process is realizing that perhaps your chosen candidate won't win.

 

[Sobriquet]

Dude, she supported TPP in 2012 and then reversed her position later. Why are you even pretending otherwise?

Pretending what? She changed her view. That's good, right?

I think she thinks Dodd-Frank is enough.

Clearly not.

No. I don't think he's a progressive.

Fair enough. I consider left of moderate to be progressive.

 

[Tesseract]

Yeah, I'm starting to think she's gonna lose the GE. Punished Trump has been denied his homeland for too long, and the working class is absolutely done with establishment politicians.

 

[ccbfan]

She opposes TPP and said the Iraq vote was a mistake. Congress was lied to, remember?



Again, she's against TPP.

She only turned on the TPP when there was a huge backlash against it by the liberal voters. Before that she was one of its biggest supporters. If she could supports something like the TPP, you have to question her loyalty to the American people.

This plus her donor list( aka every wall street company known to man), I'm just can't vote for her without felling "fuck the 99 percent for the 1 percent".

 

[JinjoUnchained]

Then be prepared for those that will be effected in a social context as to their rights to probably dislike you.

If your choice is Hillary on any GOP candidate in the primary running and you chose nothing, those folks, including many minorities and LGBT, essentially feel like you've cast them to the wolves and don't care about their lives.

But those people have accepted a false dichotomy where a candidate can't be anti war and socially progressive. It's a false choice where you have to pick one or the other.

I say bullshit. If Hillarys poll numbers collapsed tomorrow because people called her on her foreign policy record, then the Democratic Party would be forced to find another mainstream candidate that represents their platform, but without the warmongering. We're only dealing with Hillary because of her brand name, legacy, and "it's her turn".

And the greedy Democrats throw their lot behind her because it gives them the best chance to win. Who cares about people dying in Libya, we need to keep power for the trial lawyers and pharmaceutical companies that support us.

Demand better candidates.

 

[Cocaloch]

Exactly. His turnout is terrible, which also proves that his "revolution" is impossible.

IMO the sooner he drops out, the better.

The sooner he drops out the more chance Hilary has to pivot to the right.

 

[foxtrot3d]

Different interests? You mean caring about your fellow human beings and wanting to ensure society looks after those less fortunate.

Those are "interests" of most modern nations on this planet. These are expected virtues of 3rd industrial age nations. Hell, even China and India are moving to Universal Healthcare by 2020. China is going to beat out the US to it.

Your culture is ugly honestly with how self-focused it is, but I know most people don't realize they are being that and have good in their hearts. I always like this quote to describe it - “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”. The American Dream is no longer a strength of your country, but a curse.

Yes, different interests. No matter what people would like to think or say America does retain a certain amount of "Exceptionalism," we are not and most likely never will be a socialist country. It is not a part of our culture. Yes, we will introduce certain socialist policies like Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, minimum wage, and a form of Universal Healthcare but we will never transform into a truly socialist country because it runs directly counter to the American experience.

America was founded on Puritan values, now I'm not talking about religious views but a certain ethic that "hard work" will yield you just rewards. It's about a certain amount of independence, to be the master of your own destiny. And, that is why capitalism has always been at the heart of our politics. While we recognize the need to help those who cannot help themselves even a majority Democrats would balk at the notion of giving away "something for nothing." Our social policies are designed as stated before to help those who can't, for whatever reason, help themselves but those who can work and provide for others are expected to pull their fair share.

This is why so many immigrants emigrate to America, the chance to make something of themselves. They believe that if they are committed and work hard they can build themselves a better future. It's also why so much innovation takes place here. If you remove the incentive for others to work hard then innovation and industry will stagnate.

So, while I'm all for universal healthcare the notion that America needs to be like Canada or exactly like any European country is just nonsense that devalues the inherent separate culture that is America.

In the south it has to do with putting in the work for years. Bernie can't just show up a few weeks before the primary and expect to do well.

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/how-hillary-clinton-won-the-battle-for-the-black-205650975.html

Great article by the way. I feel like this along with her efforts with the Flint, Michigan water crisis should display to people why people support Hilary.

 

[Tabris]

Obama is just as bad as Hillary by the way. Point to a single thing Obama did that really contested with his major donors?

- He bailed out the banks and introduced extremely weak regulations as a response when much tougher regulations were required. No significant action was taken to punish for 2008 or more importantly to ensure it's not repeated (pre-2008 warning signs are already showing up in Wall Street again).
- He kept the current open market insurance-based healthcare system instead of moving to a single payer universal healthcare.
- He was one of the major proponents of the TPP which will be extremely harmful for the lower median American citizen.

He's bought out too. They all are except for Bernie and Trump.

People applaud Obama for what? Ending a war the US shouldn't have started in the first place? Killing Osama Bin Laden? Legalizing gay marriage (even though he didn't publicly support it until it was fashionable to do so much like Hillary)? Repealed Don't Ask Don't tell? Immigration reform (that immigration reform is still ugly compared to other countries).

It's incremental progression while still maintaining status quo of deregulation and general tax policy for donors. None of those things are impressive to the rest of the world. The only thing Obama did that is impressive is be elected in a country that has a very racist history.

 

[LittleBoots]

Do you live in America?

Think of TPP as an example. That's not progressive politics.

 

[Dai101]

If yesterday is anything to go by, Bernie supporters wouldn't have voted for Bernie in the first place.

 

[JABEE]

I will not vote for Hilary Clinton. Every US President after Jimmy Carter has been a shit show.

It's a choice between the racist right wing and the non-racist right wing.

I'm not voting for the right wing. More people should do the same, but I'm not going to tell you how to vote.

 

[120v]

as somebody who supported her in 08 this is all business as usual. on one hand i'm glad younger folk are getting involved, on the other it's annoying to see people act like she's a K-street lobbyist going straight to the white house

but whatever, when the nom is clinched all the acrimony will be an afterthought, just like it was 8 years ago

 

[samn]

I understand the desire to cause massive upheaval in the system. I would love to see it. I personally just don't see any actual plan from Bernie that could possibly change anything in a meaningful way. To achieve his stated ends he needs a lot more than the presidency, he needs to create a new caucus and get allies elected to congress to enact the changes he promotes. Otherwise it's just tilting at windmills.

well let's not even begin to try then. Reagan 6.0 it is

 

[The Lamonster]

I had always assumed this would be the case for Trump more than any other candidate, but his supporters appear to actually be showing up. It's kind of terrifying.

.

 

[Trouble]

well let's not even begin to try then. Reagan 6.0 it s

Or, perhaps, lay out an actual plan for achieving your stated goals.

 

[pigeon]

Think of TPP as an example. That's not progressive politics.

I mean, I'm a progressive, and I think the TPP is, on balance, a good idea. I am frankly annoyed that Hillary opposed it (but, I mean, Obama will probably just do it before he leaves office). So I don't agree?

Maybe you should be more specific about your critiques!

 

[Sobriquet]

You know the only person who actually talked about imposing price controls on drugs in this country instead of letting the pharmaceutical companies rob the country blind?

Hillary.

Amazingly enough, it's Donald Trump.

Oh. Him to, I guess.

Hillary is silent on actual real healthcare reform, what a shock since the drug companies have paid for her long ago.

No, she's not.

 

[VendettaRed07]

No it's really not.

By supporting Hillary, you are supporting establishment politics in America. The same politics that have led to the decline of your society over the last 30 years. Your entire governing body has been bought out by groups like the Koch brothers, the Wallstreet banks, Walmart, etc which has led to an insane amount of deregulation and tax policy that has led to a drastic income disparity and a lowering of both median income but more importantly the quality of life of people at or below the median income levels.

And you can blame gerrymandering, you can blame republican party being a greater evil, you can blame whatever you want - but the fault is with the voter. You've been beaten down into the system to believe in lesser of two evil voting and "these things like universal healthcare, education, regulation of banks, etc are just too darn hard".

The 40% of your country has beaten the 60% of your country into defeatist attitude by the buying power of the 1%.

A lot of words used here to express the idea that both parties are the same.

 

[Elfforkusu]

If yesterday is anything to go by, Bernie supporters wouldn't have voted for Bernie in the first place.

Maybe it's harder for non-Democrats to vote in the Democratic primaries?

Just speaking for myself: I don't consider myself a Democrat, but Bernie is the only candidate running that I think would be a good US president.

I'll end up voting for Hillary in the GE, just because even if I won't like it, I at least I know what she'll do as president (the bidding of big money donors). Trump OTOH is a complete wild card.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Honestly, you could argue this has been brewing for at least a decade, if not more. Hillary is pretty explicitly and inextricably tied to her husband and his legacy, and there's a not insignificant part of the left (mostly among left-leaning independents, really) that sees his legacy as leading from behind and steering the party's platform closer to the Republicans (selling out the middle class in the process) in order to win elections. Right or wrong, Hillary is getting hit with a more generalized anti-Clinton, anti-Third Way sentiment that has been brewing in the grassroots of the party since the late 90s.

I appreciate that Hillary is progressive on social issues, which seem to be what matter in this election and are the main reason I will vote for her, but I'd be lying if I said that I cared for her, myself.

 

[MHWilliams]

But those people have accepted a false dichotomy where a candidate can't be anti war and socially progressive. It's a false choice where you have to pick one or the other.

I say bullshit. If Hillarys poll numbers collapsed tomorrow because people called her on her foreign policy record, then the Democratic Party would be forced to find another mainstream candidate that represents their platform, but without the warmongering. We're only dealing with Hillary because of her brand name, legacy, and "it's her turn".

And the greedy Democrats throw their lot behind her because it gives them the best chance to win. Who cares about people dying in Libya, we need to keep power for the trial lawyers and pharmaceutical companies that support us.

Demand better candidates.

They didn't accept anything. These are the current options presented. You can't make up new candidates out of nowhere. For a socially progressive President, you have either Sanders or Clinton. That's it.

I'm unsure what magic wand you wish to wave to make a new candidate appear at this point in the process.

If Sanders loses, I'll vote for Clinton, because in the end, the GOP candidates are appalling and will do their best to take away the rights of the folks I highlighted before.

 

[ezrarh]

For me and my girlfriend, Hillary is fine because she represents the status quo. We have healthcare, our student loans are paid for, and are doing relatively well compared to the larger portion of America. My bigger concern would be her "getting shit done" because getting shit done by the federal government doesn't mean it'll turn out for the better. Especially with foreign policy. We "got shit done" in Iraq and that turned out to be a mess. So as long as the GOP controls the House I don't expect much change anyways so I don't think there will be harm in getting Hillary in. A GOP presidency would be a disaster though.

 

[Mushroomer25]

Somehow Obama saw through the lie. Why couldn't Hillary Boredom Clinton?

One legitimately convincing arguement I've heard in favor of the vote - you have to remember that at the time of that vote - support was overwhelming in favor of war. Meaning if Clinton did vote in opposition, she'd almost inevitably lose the seat come reelection. So any of the other positive things she could do with the position, would vanish.

If the public support is there, and you've been presented with misleading evidence to justify it - I absolutely see how you make that mistake.

 

[foxtrot3d]

Obama is just as bad as Hillary by the way. Point to a single thing Obama did that really contested with his major donors?

- He bailed out the banks and introduced extremely weak regulations as a response when much tougher regulations were required.
- He kept the current open market insurance-based healthcare system instead of moving to a single payer universal healthcare.
- He was one of the major proponents of the TPP which will be extremely harmful for the lower median American citizen.

He's bought out too. They all are except for Bernie and Trump.

People applaud Obama for what? Ending a war the US shouldn't have started in the first place? Killing Osama Bin Laden? Legalizing gay marriage (even though he didn't publicly support it until it was fashionable to do so much like Hillary)? Repealed Don't Ask Don't tell? Immigration reform (that immigration reform is still ugly compared to other countries).

It's incremental progression while still maintaining status quo of deregulation and general tax policy for donors. None of those things are impressive to the rest of the world. The only thing Obama did that is impressive is be elected in a country that has a very racist history.

1. He didn't have a choice, not bailing out the banks would have led to an even WORSE economic crisis and further regulations like Dodd Frank were pushed through.

2. He's not a king, he got passed what he could and even still the Republicans want to repeal that.

3. TPP is a free-trade deal, globalization is real, it's here, and it's not going anywhere. If you're losing your job to the free market then tough, it's time to get retrained and find a new job in our post-industrial society. We are a free market society, not a protect your job at all costs society. Your job is not a right.

 

[atr0cious]

How wwe should name the followers of Nana Ruth? Ruthians? Ruthers? Ruthie Bros.?

Too soon.

 

[Aaronology]

I will not vote for Hilary Clinton. Every US President after Jimmy Carter has been a shit show.

It's a choice between the racist right wing and the non-racist right wing.

I'm not voting for the right wing. More people should do the same, but I'm not going to tell you how to vote.

"Both parties are the same!"

A lot of words used here to express the idea that both parties are the same.

So I'm not the only one picking up on this, yeah? But most people are smart enough to avoid actually saying that because it's been so thoroughly debunked many times over. So instead we have longwinded, roundabout posts that essentially boil down to the same sentiment but without actually stating it.

 

[JABEE]

Reagan's success in politics ruined the US's economic policy and has led to the decline of our civilization.

Every US president since has just nodded their head and gone along with the ride in terms of tax policy and deregulation of business.

It's like a the progressive movement of the early 20th century in reverse. If you like post-civil war industrialism and corporatism, Hilary Clinton, Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, George W, and George H are for you.

 

[antonz]

There is a legitimate amount of disgust with the Government. It doesn't work for the best interest of the people enough versus how much time it focuses on helping the people at the top and themselves.

The anger is on both sides and at this point people want change even if it means taking huge risk which is why Sanders and Trump both have the support they do. Hillary,Jeb and all the others represent the status quo as far as these people are concerned so when it comes down to it they are so desperate for a change they will vote for anyone but the status quo

 

[Cocaloch]

Yes, different interests. No matter what people would like to think or say America does retain a certain amount of "Exceptionalism," we are not and most likely never will be a socialist country. It is not a part of our culture. Yes, we will introduce certain socialist policies like Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, minimum wage, and a form of Universal Healthcare but we will never transform into a truly socialist country because it runs directly counter to the American experience.

America was founded on Puritan values, now I'm not talking about religious views but a certain ethic that "hard work" will yield you just rewards. It's about a certain amount of independence, to be the master of your own destiny. And, that is why capitalism has always been at the heart of our politics. While we recognize the need to help those who cannot help themselves even a majority Democrats would balk at the notion of giving away "something for nothing." Our social policies are designed as stated before to help those who can't, for whatever reason, help themselves but those who can work and provide for others are expected to pull their fair share.

This is why so many immigrants emigrate to America, the chance to make something of themselves. They believe that if they are committed and work hard they can build themselves a better future. It's also why so much innovation takes place here. If you remove the incentive for others to work hard then innovation and industry will stagnate.

So, while I'm all for universal healthcare the notion that America needs to be like Canada or exactly like any European country is just nonsense that devalues the inherent separate culture that is America.

This post is like baby's first American Historigraphy of the 1950's. America is exceptional in the same way all countries are. It wasn't founded on Puritan values, the Puritan couldn't even keep control of Massachusetts in the 18th century. America was moving towards socialism, like every industrialized country, but began moving away for military reasons during the cold war. Now anti-socialism is just conflated with the US for nationalist "traditional" reasons.

If any country ever really bought into your Geist Des Kapitalismus, it's Britain and not the US anyway.

 

[Melkezadek]

I've actually been going back and forth with a friend over this very issue.

Trump's path to the nomination has already emboldened all these latent racists and I feel that him winning would only validate them. That might not be a problem for your heterosexual white male voter, but for other like myself it's a big deal. The difference between Hilary and Trump is that Trump is trying to pass legislation banning Muslims from entering the country. Hilary is not. Trump is trying to push the idea that brown people are either illegal immigrants or terrorists. Hilary is not. By not voting and someone like Trump wins, I feel you are indirectly responsible for the outcome.

I'm voting for Bernie Sanders in the primaries, but if Hilary gets the nomination my vote is absolutely going to her.

These kinda Sanders voters couldn't possibly give a fuck about anyone who's being targeted by the rhetoric on the right. They just want to see their guy win. Children.

Let's not even talk about the ones who say they'll just vote for Trump if Bernie doesn't win. Boggles my mind.

 

[Vaux]

Bernie supporter here.
Hillary vs Trump is worrying to me. Trump is not afraid of bringing up all the dirt of Hillary past. Trump is just gonna be hammering and hammering.

 

[legacyzero]

She opposes TPP and said the Iraq vote was a mistake. Congress was lied to, remember?



Again, she's against TPP.

Like she was opposed to NAFTA?

 

[JAV Actress]

But the fact of the matter is that we CANNOT have a republican in the White House.

lmfao yeah or ww3 right OP

 

[JABEE]

"Both parties are the same!"

They are not. One is racist and more-outwardly xenophobic. Both are selling this country's economic future down the river.

 

[Dai101]

��

Too soon.

Come on guys, it's been 2 hypotetical months already. Is time to move on and honer her hypotetical memory.

Hillary vs Trump is worrying to me. Trump is not afraid of bringing up all the dirt of Hillary past. Trump is just gonna be hammering and hammering.

Like what? Also she came out of that kangaroo court that the republicans made for her unscatted.

She's a seasoned politician, she can hold her own against that man baby.