I'm thinking every two or three years for hardware upgrades.
Microsoft unifying PC/XB1 platforms, Phil implies Xbox moving to incremental upgrades
- Thread starter dancrane212
- Start date
I'm thinking every two or three years for hardware upgrades.
openrob
Member
I still don't understand why this isn't the case. The XB1 can look exactly the same, have pretty much the same OS, but allow for all PC games to be played on it - and all Xbox games to be played through windows. All within an Xbox PC store.
Microsoft have the largest gaming environment (windows). Why they are letting that space to be dominated by Steam is crazy.
They have developed the Xbox brand now. There are people who are tied in to the brand with accounts and digital purchases. People now have a reason to commit to an Xbox environment in windows.Imagine booting up your PC and seeing all your Xbox games there.
I don't even own an Xbox One, but it just makes so much sense.
Huh, so on the Windows side of things they'd like to have games function more like console software (i.e. less wiggle room for modification/tweaking), but on the hardware side they'd like to entertain the notion of PC-like upgrades?
It's an interesting gameplan, but right now I would think that the extremes at both ends (no-fuss/no-muss console owners & enthusiast PC users) would come out dissatisfied.
It's an interesting gameplan, but right now I would think that the extremes at both ends (no-fuss/no-muss console owners & enthusiast PC users) would come out dissatisfied.
Graphics Horse
Member
There is no need for it to appeal to the 'casual crowd'. There shouldn't be any more concern over this than the biannual hard drive increases and form factor refreshes we were.getting last gen. People buy new consoles all the time, the usual reason simply being that they don't already own one of that brand. This just introduces new specs which become the standard purchase option after a year or so.
I think it will be pretty major revisions. They'll probably treat Xbox like surface now.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
Could be a smart business move, they could get the most hardcore fans to buy new hardware every year
Ninja Scooter
Member
I'd be shocked if any kind of 1-2 year revision type of plan worked in the console market.
There is no way to know that until we see what NX actually is.
MS moving towards a modular baseline approach is literally changing the playing field, it's either genius or madness. E3 has the potential to be insane.
I also think Panos Panay's team has something to do with this.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
I think some of us in this thread are too quick to throw away the very real advantages of closed, dedicated gaming hardware.
Upgrades are nice....from a PC perspective and a PC context, but we all know it won't be like on PC and therefore won't have many of the same advantages of PC.
When I buy a console, I'm buying a box to play the games. I want that box to have exclusive games developed for the hardware, and I want the controller, the UI, the online, the available peripherals, etc to all be taken into account. Game ownership is a big piece of the puzzle, too and is something that has been a battle on PC for years. Do we trade the traditional model of game ownership on console for the flexibility of BC? Shouldn't that be a choice (i.e. being able to buy physical or digital) instead of being forced to tie your games into their ecosystem?
Under this new model, it's just a hamster-wheel inside of Microsoft's "ecosystem". There's no incentive for developers to push the limits of my console because my will be shortly outdated. The focus shifts from the hardware to the software platform, which is controlled by Microsoft. The focus shifts from innovating with the console hardware and trying to entice new buyers to the hardware just being a box that plays the games.
There's little incentive to buy any particular box, which means there's little incentive to make that box attractive, which means there's little incentive to develop for a box instead of for the "platform".
In other words, it completely undercuts the whole purpose of buying a console.
Upgrades are nice....from a PC perspective and a PC context, but we all know it won't be like on PC and therefore won't have many of the same advantages of PC.
When I buy a console, I'm buying a box to play the games. I want that box to have exclusive games developed for the hardware, and I want the controller, the UI, the online, the available peripherals, etc to all be taken into account. Game ownership is a big piece of the puzzle, too and is something that has been a battle on PC for years. Do we trade the traditional model of game ownership on console for the flexibility of BC? Shouldn't that be a choice (i.e. being able to buy physical or digital) instead of being forced to tie your games into their ecosystem?
Under this new model, it's just a hamster-wheel inside of Microsoft's "ecosystem". There's no incentive for developers to push the limits of my console because my will be shortly outdated. The focus shifts from the hardware to the software platform, which is controlled by Microsoft. The focus shifts from innovating with the console hardware and trying to entice new buyers to the hardware just being a box that plays the games.
There's little incentive to buy any particular box, which means there's little incentive to make that box attractive, which means there's little incentive to develop for a box instead of for the "platform".
In other words, it completely undercuts the whole purpose of buying a console.
Crayon
Member
That's kind of a tall order.
outunderthestars
Banned
The margins in the two markets are way too different. MS doesn't make enough profit on hardware to warrant that kind of investment in development, manufacturing, etc.
Movalpolos
Banned
Consoles are not phones. Most people expect a console to have a life span of at least 4 years. A console purchase is more like a TV or Blu ray/DVD player. It sits in your entertainment center. You don't carry it in your pocket.
This is still a horrible comparison. The mobile phone sales model does not and will not work for consoles.
And just call it "Xbox" with a small revision sticker on the back.
Expected. Their IP's are dying on Xbox One, so unifying the PC and Xbox platform is the best way to give life to the four horsemen (Halo, Gears, Fable, Forza) and others. If they can make the Windows 10 store great then they'll succeed. They need to nail the PC stuff for all of this to work.
Backwards compatibility makes sense, but the problem is that console games take years to develop. Are developers going to target both the One and Two? What's the financial and creative incentive?
What about retailers? Are they going to benefit from having to get rid of Xbox One's in favor of Xbox Two's, and then do the same in less than 24 months for the Xbox Three?
It's an exciting move, but realistically, Microsoft are going to run into a situation where devs/pubs cater to the platform with the most users. I could be wrong, but I don't think major publishers will jump at the chance to spend millions more on a platform with a much smaller userbase. That's not how they make money. If the Xbox Two version (that devs/pubs make) is just a 1080p version that runs at an unlocked framerate, a lot of people just aren't going to bite.
Backwards compatibility makes sense, but the problem is that console games take years to develop. Are developers going to target both the One and Two? What's the financial and creative incentive?
What about retailers? Are they going to benefit from having to get rid of Xbox One's in favor of Xbox Two's, and then do the same in less than 24 months for the Xbox Three?
It's an exciting move, but realistically, Microsoft are going to run into a situation where devs/pubs cater to the platform with the most users. I could be wrong, but I don't think major publishers will jump at the chance to spend millions more on a platform with a much smaller userbase. That's not how they make money. If the Xbox Two version (that devs/pubs make) is just a 1080p version that runs at an unlocked framerate, a lot of people just aren't going to bite.
it means people are more likely to upgrade their phones because it's probably the single most important device in their life
justsomeguy
Member
Yes, that's what they're saying (unless we're talking at cross-purposes). The game will just work. The "hardware emulation" bit is a bit misleading - an i7 isn't emulating an i5, or a modern i7 isn't emulating my old i7 920 - it's just "the platform on which stuff works", that's what I think they are getting at.
Graphics Horse
Member
You can call out the phone thing if you like but it's true for tablets.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
To add, phones are subsidized through contracts or have interest free financing for months to month contracts, which makes upgrading much more attractive. The majority of people are not shelling out $4-$800 up front for phones every year.
You also need a phone in 2016 more often than not, you don't need a new console. Not a good comparison.
Agreed.
Ninja Scooter
Member
People are also already conditioned by carriers to upgrade based on their data contracts every couple of years. You don't and likely can't get that with a video game console, which, like you said, is not seen as an essential device the way a phone is.
Realistically we're not talking about "all PC games": this is about Windows 10 store apps, period. There are going to be quite a few of those going forward but it's going to represent a tiny fraction of all PC games.
wapplew
Member
Unless development for Windows 10 devices as easy as "save as" on every devices, 1BN install base mean jack shit.
Your PC UWA games won't run on Windows 10 phone, UWA hololens games won't run on Xbox one, your market share is as big as your hardware sales, not all different kind of hardware combine just because they run "same" OS.
have you seen tablet/iPad sales lately? people aren't upgrading frequently AT ALL
Movalpolos
Banned
The concern comes with price. But I can see what you are suggesting.
Say a new model comes out with a better gpu and cpu. That model will become the ones to be manufactured while the previous model will just run its course with the remaining stock. Eventually all the new models are just the current models and sell for the same price as the previous one.
Well I guess we'll see if it works.
outunderthestars
Banned
You are still thinking of the revisions as discrete platforms. This wouldn't be the case.
I think you are also grossly overestimating the amount of inventory retailers carry. It shouldn't be hard to sell through old skus with bundles and promotions.
Ninja Scooter
Member
And tablet sales have contracted in large part because people don't upgrade them in the same way they would a phone.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yep, still have my iPad 3 with no plans to get a new one in the foreseeable future.
Maybe an Android one down the road in a year or two. But that is more years away than an average console life cycle usually is.
Obliterator
Member
This is brilliant move and people need to get ready. The entire industry is going to be looking at doing this model
my wife is still on an iPad 2 and I have been begging her to let me buy her a new one just so I can finally throw out all of our damn dock connector cables
The fact that you think this is a shining example of Nintendo being forward-thinking, high-tech and innovative in manoeuvring themselves in the console space is rather funny.
Who knows, maybe the NX will really turn the ship around on that front. Doubt it though.
michaelius
Banned
Well at least that explains why they are trying to kill pc gaming with all their new windows 10 crap policies.
Complicated
Banned
It makes way too much sense. I'd be surprised if they don't do this sooner rather than later. There's no reason they couldn't get people to commit to the high end of their offering every few years as is done with phones. They have most of the pieces in place with the system architecture and store ecosystem to support it. They just have to hammer into people that this will work just like their phones do to keep the casual crowd from freaking out and being scared off.
That depends on the demographic. I'm more likely to upgrade my PC to play games than my phone which does everything it needs to do.
Having the option to upgrade my frequently would be a bonus in my eyes, instead of waiting 6+ years for a new device.
If the device just "works" and your game collection carries over, then I fail to see the problem.
Paracelsus
Member
This defies the very raison d'être of a homeconsole, like a 20" tablet but much worse.
Ol No Bones
Banned
Except it isn't like PC gaming.
MikeE21286
Member
I wonder if this is out of necessity/reaction with how they are doing versus Sony this gem or completely isolated from that?
They may be in a situation where they don't see any other alternative to turn around and right the ship. :?
They may be in a situation where they don't see any other alternative to turn around and right the ship. :?
that's cool.....then I now know what to buy my little brother
The one that isn't like a PC getting revisions every other year.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I doubt that introducing more skus and revisions into the market is somehow going to cause people to buy more consoles. I just don't see where the market is asking for anything like this? All we've heard for the last 18 months is how the ps4 is underpowered and how PC ports look and perform so much better and yet, the console is selling like hot cakes and likely will have a super successful and healthy run over the next 3 or 4 years. Who is asking for a more powerful ps4 in 2016? Would it make any sense for Sony to spend the resources necessary to release a new console revision?
Milly Osworth
Member
Yeah this seems pretty odd.
No, I am assuming that 3 hardware releases across 6 years is enough of a user base to start dropping development of AAA games ensuring compatibility with the older unit. If fact its much better than today way of consoles where a 3rd party developer has to go into a new console generation with a very small user base.
On Indie, totally agree! I was thinking larger developers.
You wouldn't buy a more powerful PS4 if it were released in the next 12 months?
you're right it's definitely not true for everyone, but I would guess it is for the vast majority
Every 3 years, a new Xbox refresh could work out well for MS considering they are trying to phase out of regular hardware by the looks of it.
It's basically the steam box model and will be interesting to see how the mass markets take to it.
What would be great is a dev perspective on this in terms of work flows and the like.
It's basically the steam box model and will be interesting to see how the mass markets take to it.
What would be great is a dev perspective on this in terms of work flows and the like.