Yeah, the battle in 3rd is great. The information though, kind of spoiler for me.
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The Kiseki / Trails (of the Sky/Zero/Ao/Sen/Etc) Community Thread: SPOILERTAGS OR DIE
- Thread starter Bebpo
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Yeah, the battle in 3rd is great. The information though, kind of spoiler for me.
I don't understand how you can claim The 3rd has no importance if you abandoned it halfway through. You seem to have played all of the games so far, so you should know how much more can happen in latter parts of these games in comparison to the first halves that are usually just setup for more important things to come. I assume 3rd has a lot more to offer past it's middle point, so it just sounds weird for you to claim it's not important or make any kind of definitive claims about the quality of the rest of the story when you haven't even gotten to what I assume will be the best parts. Unless you've spoiled everything past the point you played by reading up on everything and even then that still isn't quite the same as experiencing everything yourself, since people's summaries can be lacking and it's not the same to read shocking revelations like "Vader is Luke's father" vs. experiencing it first hand as part of the story while you are engrossed in it.
The latter half of The 3rd is very precious to me, and a lot of other fans. It has one of the best chapters in the series -- one that gives me goosebumps just reminiscing about it --, a lot of memorable scenes and the most perfect ending for the trilogy.
I didn't play through it but I did looked up for what happened in the second half of the game by searching on the Internet and asking people who finished it, and no, I don't think it's as important as any other entry in the series, and skipping it won't cause as big a confusion as say, jumping to SC without playing FC. Like I said before, other people may find it worthwhile.
You can see that the main story of each entry adds up to a greater scheme carried out by the Society. In 3rd, however, the main story, if there ever is one, doesn't have much to do with the Society or the saga in general. (I'm not saying they didn't appear in 3rd, in fact quite the contrary.) Moreover, much of the information in 3rd, being as memorable as they are, are just fractions of things in the past and future without any interconnection or consistency. The fact that they are locked behind some serious dungeon crawling and most of them are optional doesn't help either. I do believe that many people, having been accustomed to the usual JRPG structure in FC/SC (traveling between towns, talking to NPCs, doing side quests), would feel quite lost when they play this one (I myself had been wondering for the longest time when shell I see a town), not to mention 3rd has the largest amount of dungeon but the least amount of text.
In fact I know many Trails fans who skipped 3rd. You can say they are not hardcore, just like me, but casual's opinion is opinion nonetheless. If you care enough, you can go check the sells number of the series in Japan, and you will find that 3rd has the lowest number, which pretty much speaks for itself. You'll only hear praise of this game, which is not surprising, because it takes some serious love for the franchise to pick up something that is a rearrangement of assets for the second time.
SC spoilers:
There's a lot more to this series than just the Society. There's a lot in 3rd that goes without being pointed out as being important. Look at the way Kevin talks, for example. You get hints that he's lying through his teeth a lot in SC, especially, especially with the ending. You learn to read how Kevin's talking through SC and you should put it to use in 3rd.
Vague Cold Steel Spoilers:
As a result, a lot of things don't get outright said, and you have to read between the lines during the game... but a lot of stuff from the main story of 3rd actually starts coming into play during Cold Steel. Not very obviously, but if you have only read a summary, you won't have the context to run with in Erebonia, and a summary won't give you the visual cues, that absolutely did carry over.
Very Vague minor 3rd spoilers:
Besides, you absolutely DO NOT want anything from 3rd's main story showing up, due to what they're dealing with in it. ;D That means bad things.
Young Magus
Junior Member
Replying to the SC spoilers bit:
With regards to what Kevin says, do you mean to focus on WHAT he talks about, HOW he speaks in general or the way he discusses information?
Neither of those three. It's about what Kevin decides not to say. The 3rd forces you to read the lines, because neither he nor Ries need to spell out what they both know or he has no intent to share with her.
Basically this.
SC Spoilers:
But there are also points when Kevin's outright lying, and you can start pinpointing those, too. So you have to learn to deal with that aspect of things, also. And watching Kevin can also be important. If you take him to the last battle of SC, for example, you can see him run off when everyone else goes to check on Loewe afterwards.
Use Kevin and Estelle in... chapter 3, was it? In Grancel? At the gate- when Kevin casually mentions the Sealed District and Estelle catches him and calls him out on it. A lot of characters don't call him out on things, and Ries, in 3rd, will actually stay quiet about many of these things, too.
Estelle's been the person learning about the world around her in FC and SC.
You're getting that taken away in 3rd. ;D Kevin knows a hell of a lot of stuff, and getting him to talk might be like pulling teeth.
Use Kevin and Estelle in... chapter 3, was it? In Grancel? At the gate- when Kevin casually mentions the Sealed District and Estelle catches him and calls him out on it. A lot of characters don't call him out on things, and Ries, in 3rd, will actually stay quiet about many of these things, too.
Estelle's been the person learning about the world around her in FC and SC.
You're getting that taken away in 3rd. ;D Kevin knows a hell of a lot of stuff, and getting him to talk might be like pulling teeth.
Young Magus
Junior Member
I see.
I overthought too much :0
I remember the first example you gave, the second seems familiar, might check it out whwn/if I do a replay
Hah, missed that first one.
(still SC spoilers)
I took Agate instead, to settle his debt with Loewe. I went out my way to take Olivier to Bluebanc, Zane to Walter, Schera to Luciola and Tita to Renne. Hurray for shining poms #gofight.
I knew you would get different dialogues before the battles, but not after. Anyway something to think about for a possible replay before 3rd!
I knew you would get different dialogues before the battles, but not after. Anyway something to think about for a possible replay before 3rd!
Shouta
Member
Yeah, I definitely think that Sen III will be where he really comes into the story. It's strange to have such a grown character with others that are still growing (despite being the same age) so I was thinking they just wanted to set him up and have him be a face in the pack of heroes that did something ala Kevin in SC for the players.
Definitely agree on Ellie she feels like they kind of didn't know what to do after Zero with her lol. Tio as well, more or less. Both have quite a bit of time in Zero but they're pretty much relegated to the information terminals in Ao which is a shame. Sure, they have sidequests but main scenario is kind of where you'd expect them to be a part of it. At least with Sen 2, it's a little understandable because of the game structure even if a little annoying but Ao gives you Noel instead. I mean I like Noel but she's not nearly as important. *shakes fists*
Most folks are just gonna aim for doing as much damage as possible, lol. Gaius is super reliable character though and much more versatile than in non-max whatever situations. I 'm not sure if many folks do those kinds of challenges in Trails games though. lol
On the subject of 3rd, I feel that because Falcom is aware of how dense their story can get and the fact they write their games with that in mind, I don't think 3rd is very integral to understanding and enjoying the titles after it. If you do play it, you certainly gain a better appreciation for some events that occur later. However Falcom has already proven that they can write those related scenarios in such a manner that's understandable for people that don't know and can be appreciated even more by folks that do know.
It's basically what it's supposed to be, a fandisk for folks that really enjoy the Sora cast and really are into the lore.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Apropos of nothing, Kurt Nardin is an A-rank bracer, yar? Does he also have a cheesy nickname like Schera's "Silver Streak" and Cassius's "Divine Blade"?
Most certainly, his alias "Artful Tactician" refers to his unique Eastern magic known as Fangshu.
Isn't Divine Blade a title given to a master of the Eight Leaves One Blade School?
Se7enSword
Banned
Yes, anyone who has mastered an art/style of Eight Leaves One Blade is given that title.
Like being a master of the First form would give you the title of Divine Blade. At least that's how it works iirc
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Aa, I think SC actually mentions that title somewhere but I just forgot. Thanks.
I know nothing about this, though. I remember something about "Divine Blade" being a title held by four people, but I assumed it's referring to S-rank bracers. Maybe I'm just confusing things up.
Officially, no. Though, at one point in The 3rd, Kevin calls her
"Daughter of the Sun" (太陽の娘
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Im not clicking on that but if it aint "Queen of Snark" count me as disappointed. 
That's not what I hid under the spoiler tag, but she does have another alias that features "Queen" and also comes up in The 3rd, IIRC.Im not clicking on that but if it aint "Queen of Snark" count me as disappointed.
Chapter 5 SC
I think that Loewe said something about Agate's rank, maybe about his promotion. But definitely his rank is mentioned in the game.
Uhm, actually, I find so weird that SC let that Estelle gain the A-rank in the game, when people like Schera is B-rank and she have some years of experiencie. I spoiled myself about Estelle's rank that she have in the Crosbell arc, but I don't think it was the rank she could have gained officialy in SC. I think that she may have gained the D or C rank before the final chapter, and gain a promotion at the end of the game.
After all, resolve the conflict regarding the lack of orbement power AND bring peace to Libert kindgom must be a huge task with a big reward.
Both Scherazard and Agate were C in FC and B in SC. As far as we know neither have made it A yet.
Makes you wonder what on earth Cassius did to achieve his rank, doesn't it?
Officially, no. Though, at one point in The 3rd, Kevin calls her, which could very well become her alias in a future instalment."Daughter of the Sun" (太陽の娘
Figures it would be along the lines of that.
Both Scherazard and Agate were C in FC and B in SC. As far as we know neither have made it A yet.
Makes you wonder what on earth Cassius did to achieve his rank, doesn't it?
The ranking system is wrecked. Estelle getting to rank A before both of them
.And are you teasing us with Cassius? You and omgfloofy are the worst
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Im not clicking on that but if it aint "Queen of Snark" count me as disappointed.
It's obviously "Goddess of Fishing".
bishopcruz
Member
Isn't Estelle's canonical rank B?
Sen 1& 2
Nord sucks. Bogs down both games even with (thank god) fast travel in 2. Please Falcom, never ever do open fields again. Tales can't do it right and apparently neither can you. Somehow FFXII is like the only jrpg that made open fields fun.
The funny thing is when we first got to Nord in Sen 1 I was super excited because I confused Nord with Northumbria and I thought we were going to The 3rd spoilers
Nord sucks. Bogs down both games even with (thank god) fast travel in 2. Please Falcom, never ever do open fields again. Tales can't do it right and apparently neither can you. Somehow FFXII is like the only jrpg that made open fields fun.
The funny thing is when we first got to Nord in Sen 1 I was super excited because I confused Nord with Northumbria and I thought we were going to The 3rd spoilers
see the devastated nomad lands of post-Pillar of Salt incident which would be exciting to see. But no, they both just start with N. Instead Nord is just a boring open field that's fun for about 30 mins and then tedious to ride around.
Also I like Kiseki the dungeon crawler. 3rd rocked and the school dungeon in Sen 1 and the dungeon stuff in Sen 2 are both good fun. If it wasn't for the interesting world Falcom creates, I'd almost be pro the Kiseki series just being a pure dungeon crawler with cutscenes every game. Or maybe a spinoff Kiseki series that's plot/lore-relevant and a dungeon crawler like 3rd every few years would be cool.
Shouta
Member
It's a lot better, like everything in Sen 2. I almost don't mind it in Sen 2 since they add fast travel, but it's still dull for an hour or two while clearing quests and chests in the maps.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
Good Lord, no. Final Fantasy XII is dreadful in how all the environments are ten times larger than they should be and filled with mere nothingness. Xenoblade had much more interesting environments to explore.
Glad I remembered correctly!
You know, Zane casually mentions that Cassius onceBoth Scherazard and Agate were C in FC and B in SC. As far as we know neither have made it A yet.
Makes you wonder what on earth Cassius did to achieve his rank, doesn't it?
saved their bacon in Calvard
You liked the dungeons in sen 2? I thought they were some of the most boring sections of the game. Especially the elemental dungeons since you have to back track outside to switch characters to get every chest.
Ah, I haven't encountered any chests where I didn't have the right party members yet. Only 15 hours in. I can see that being pretty annoying. In fact, I think it's silly that you have to leave your party at a central area that isn't easily accessible. Why not have your whole party with you at all times (outside story splitting) and just have an active support category and a non-active. Third worked since you could just warp around.
But other than the party switching chests? Yeah, the dungeons are fun. The battles are enjoyable, the little puzzles are fun enough, the chests/loot collecting is good, and the boss fights are great. The pure dungeon crawling of Kiseki in 3rd and Sen dungeons is just an enjoyable gameplay loop with a good constant pace to it that's hard to put down. Especially since you can avoid encounters if you want. The only dungeons I don't like are the Kiseki final dungeons that go on for hours and hours like SC/Ao and are copy & paste.
Maybe FFXII just seems more fun in retrospect since it was one of the first jrpgs to do open field. I agree on Xenoblade though. That did a good job with it.
UmbraeCruxis
Banned
I just started(about 6 hours in) trails in the aky after beating and loving cold steel. I'm enjoying it quite a bit, but am I supposed to feel this week? I get in a fight with three enemies, and they can spam and make me lose a decent amount of hp, and after beating them, I get a whopping 1 xp from each of them. It makes the gameplay kind of a chore at times admittedly. I feel like I should steam roll guys who only give me 1xp, but they still hit decently hard and take a few hits to take down. I think I have the best equipment at the moment.
Is this just how It Is at the beginning?
Is this just how It Is at the beginning?
It's how it is at the beginning of every Kiseki game after your first one. Sen 1 beginning felt like that coming from Ao, Sen 2 beginning feels like that. You always feel super weak going back to almost no Quartz, no accessories. The Kiseki games have inverted difficulty curves where the further you get the easier the game is because of all the accessories and spells you have access to.
Sora FC battles are gonna feel slow and limited no matter what after Sen though. It's old and every game they've added new systems and speed upgrades to the battles.
Sora FC battles are gonna feel slow and limited no matter what after Sen though. It's old and every game they've added new systems and speed upgrades to the battles.
UmbraeCruxis
Banned
That's fair. I suppose after having lots of equipment and a rhythm set up and going to sora, it would feel a lot slower. It was just frustrating having to use healing items against a set of enemies because they do a decent bit of damage(and regen) and still only get like 3 xp out of it. I'm sure it gets better later on like Sen where by the end I loved the gameplay. It's just more jarring than I was expecting ^^;
I got FC and SC during the last Steam sale. I'm 40h into FC at the last dungeon (I hope) and I can't take much more of that combat... I want to go back and see how the story goes but just thinking about opening another "rigged" chest and fighting sponges for 10min makes me change my mind.
Please tell me SC is a massive improvement or something.
Please tell me SC is a massive improvement or something.
It's more of the same.
I blatantly cheated my way through the game, TiTS has quite possibly one of the most boring battle systems I've seen in an otherwise enjoyable JRPG.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
It's very much improved.
Though, coming from a person who derives no joy at all from any RPG combat and views them as unwelcome obstacles, it's more like "I could tolerate them much more." At the very least there are not damage sponge enemies anymore.
Are you playing on normal? How can a battle take that long, like you're underlevel? I think SC's battle is a little better.
The final dungeon of FC is probably the worst part of the game, so I recommend just sticking on Cloak and heading to the end. Nothing in the chests are really necessary to win.
I was already pretty selective of battles to begin with thanks to acquisition of quartz that let me dodge and avoid field enemies, so I didn't get bogged down by the battle system since I could carefully pick and choose my fights (a nice luxury that reminds me just how shitty random encounters are).
As for SC, you gain the Haze quartz fairly quickly, so it's easier to control when you enter battle. Plus you start off with your excellent crafts, so it's easier to smash through weaker enemies. Also in SC, it's easier to find where Shining Poms are and kill them for quick leveling, so if you do, you can actually kill two groups of them and have no need to do regular battles unless you like fooling around with different arts and crafts (lol) like I do.
I was already pretty selective of battles to begin with thanks to acquisition of quartz that let me dodge and avoid field enemies, so I didn't get bogged down by the battle system since I could carefully pick and choose my fights (a nice luxury that reminds me just how shitty random encounters are).
As for SC, you gain the Haze quartz fairly quickly, so it's easier to control when you enter battle. Plus you start off with your excellent crafts, so it's easier to smash through weaker enemies. Also in SC, it's easier to find where Shining Poms are and kill them for quick leveling, so if you do, you can actually kill two groups of them and have no need to do regular battles unless you like fooling around with different arts and crafts (lol) like I do.
skLaFarebear
Member
From a story/character perspective, definitely. There's no single segment in SC that's quite the length of FC's last dungeon, though there are two chapters in SC that skew heavier towards the combat compared to the narrative.
Also, there's nothing game-changing in those chests so feel free to skip them if you want.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Yar, every single person I recommended this game to complained to me during the final dungeon with colorful variations of "damn Donkey Missile".
One could also choose the actual Easy Mode and steamroll everything without even looking at the screen.
The Silver
Member
So tell me, in the later games is it ever really viable to use the max level magic arts? In FC and SC I hardly ever went above the 2nd level(blue impact) and 3rd level(napalm breath) spells respectively(except for the time spells). Action and Cast orbments feeling so necessary for casters also made it very hard to go to the real high tier stuff even if I wanted to.
I did fool around and from I saw the higher stuff really didn't do that much more damage, with someone like Kloe I could easily get by just using 1st tier stuff cause her magic stat was so damn high.
I did fool around and from I saw the higher stuff really didn't do that much more damage, with someone like Kloe I could easily get by just using 1st tier stuff cause her magic stat was so damn high.
Magic barely scaled in FC/SC, so using higher level arts (outside of a select few) wasn't worth it at all.
I haven't looked at the actual numbers for Cold Steel, but I was doing a lot more damage with the higher-level arts than the base-level arts.