One thing I do wonder about regarding these slow opening acts is how much more bearable they are once you're already knee-deep in the Zemurian universe.
I mean, CS started slow as hell, but just seeing all the shared universe stuff made me power through the beginning.
I'll be impressed if once you beat FC you don't cave and buy SC at full price instead of waiting for a possible summer sale. I know a few people who said they would play fc -> afew other games -> sc that turned into fc -> sc
Yeah I found the journey to the last chapter in Cold Steel far worse than FC. If that was my first Trails I probably would have been a lot more down on the game. But having played both Sky games, I could more appreciate the wider world building and references in ways those who hadn't played them wouldn't be able to. So I knew despite having the structure get a bit boring and monotonous, in the end Cold Steel would give me something worth slogging through, even if it was in the next game
I'll be impressed if once you beat FC you don't cave and buy SC at full price instead of waiting for a possible summer sale. I know a few people who said they would play fc -> afew other games -> sc that turned into fc -> sc
One thing I do wonder about regarding these slow opening acts is how much more bearable they are once you're already knee-deep in the Zemurian universe.
I mean, CS started slow as hell, but just seeing all the shared universe stuff made me power through the beginning.
It gets worse and worse. As there's more and more progress with the world story and the various unresolved subplots, having to "power through" a 50-75 hour game and wait a year, or in the case of stuff from Ao that's not getting addressed until Sen 3, 150 hours of game and 4 years+, to get progress on those subplots and stories is...not all that cool.
I think Falcom may want to rethink their games a bit, and maybe start progressing running subplots in the background of FCs while introducing a new cast and location in the foreground so there's at least more progress and not just a few seconds of teases here and there.
The whole feel of world progress and the wait and effort required for advancement reminds me a lot like The Song of Ice & Fire waiting. Especially since there's probably another 10-12 years left in the Kiseki story, But hey, at least it doesn't feel like Berserk, and Honda doesn't get distracted by each new Idolmaster release
Still, the games are enjoyable and fun. Shouta told me before playing Sen/Cold Steel that (para-phrasing) "if you're looking for answers, you're in the wrong place; just enjoy the ride" and 25 hours into Sen II, it's a great, very enjoyable ride and I'm happy. But every time I think about the stuff I want to see addressed from The 3rd & Ao I'm a little bummed it still hasn't really happened, 100 hours in to the Sen chapter.
Kiseki voice casting is great because sometimes they get some lesser known talent for side characters who are really good. Also there are so many characters in the Kiseki universe that I'm sure they have problems deciding actors since they don't want to use up an actor for a minor role when they would be perfect for a latter role in a future chapter. They gotta save some of the big talent for each new chapter's major characters.
Like in Ao Evo where everyone is voiced, the best role by far was Randy where Shin'ichiro Miki (whose obviously a pretty huge name) just blows it away, but Wadji, Uppers, Lloyd and Tio were also fantastic. Deeta was bombastic like he should be and Griswald had a nice voice.
In Sen, I love Laura's dad's voice. Dude has the smoothest voice out there in Japanese. In Sen II,
I love how deep the dreadlock's guy's voice is from the Merc group, and Crow's voice is pretty nice (though he's a big name seiyuu). Macbaine's cool, though again he's a pretty big name too. The speed knight girl is pretty funny, and continues the running joke from Ao).
Also, fwiw Sen II completely fixes (almost) all issues I had with selective voice acting in Sen 1. If every Kiseki game from this point on out has as much voice acting for the main story as Sen II, I'm fine with it and don't need Evo versions. The only improvement they could make is have a few people who do generic NPCs who appear in voice cutscenes so there isn't that weird silence when they talk while everyone else has a voice.
Kiseki voice casting is great because sometimes they get some lesser known talent for side characters who are really good. Also there are so many characters in the Kiseki universe that I'm sure they have problems deciding actors since they don't want to use up an actor for a minor role when they would be perfect for a latter role in a future chapter. They gotta save some of the big talent for each new chapter's major characters.
Like in Ao Evo where everyone is voiced, the best role by far was Randy where Shin'ichiro Miki (whose obviously a pretty huge name) just blows it away, but Wadji, Uppers, Lloyd and Tio were also fantastic. Deeta was bombastic like he should be and Griswald had a nice voice.
In Sen, I love Laura's dad's voice. Dude has the smoothest voice out there in Japanese. In Sen II,
I love how deep the dreadlock's guy's voice is from the Merc group, and Crow's voice is pretty nice (though he's a big name seiyuu). Macbaine's cool, though again he's a pretty big name too. The speed knight girl is pretty funny, and continues the running joke from Ao).
Also, fwiw Sen II completely fixes (almost) all issues I had with selective voice acting in Sen 1. If every Kiseki game from this point on out has as much voice acting for the main story as Sen II, I'm fine with it and don't need Evo versions. The only improvement they could make is have a few people who do generic NPCs who appear in voice cutscenes so there isn't that weird silence when they talk while everyone else has a voice.
Does anybody know why there isn't a super arrange version of 3rd, AO and Cold Steel OST yet? For CS it would be understandable since they aren't that old. But for 3rd and AO? No reason why not. Zero got one too.
It's a shame though. I've been listening to Sky duology arrange version ost and the tracks are outstsanding in so many ways. Completely overshadows the original tracks. My favourite tracks from the arrange version is probably Enormous Fright, Maybe it was fated, Place of a Promise, Beginning and Guardians of the Treasure.
Just beat SC, didn't expect it to be longer than FC.
I gotta say,
that Deus Ex Machina felt like a JRPG parody or something. I expected something silly like not-dead-anymore Loewe riding a mecha to save them, but Cassius riding an ancient dragon was 100% overkill
Just beat SC, didn't expect it to be longer than FC.
I gotta say,
that Deus Ex Machina felt like a JRPG parody or something. I expected something silly like not-dead-anymore Loewe riding a mecha to save them, but Cassius riding an ancient dragon was 100% overkill
I feel like Cassius being 100% overkill every time he appears is sort of the point. He's like this incredibly competent ideal nobody else could ever hope to reach.
And it would make his eventual, totally-going-to-happen death in the series' penultimate entry all the more poignant.
Just beat SC, didn't expect it to be longer than FC.
I gotta say,
that Deus Ex Machina felt like a JRPG parody or something. I expected something silly like not-dead-anymore Loewe riding a mecha to save them, but Cassius riding an ancient dragon was 100% overkill
I don't know if I'd call it a deus ex machina. Estelle is on good terms with Ragnard, Cassius was worried about his kids, and weren't we told that Ragnard knew Cassius? It felt about as coincidental as Cassius saving Estelle's rear at the beginning of FC, or him arriving at the nick of time at the end of FC.
Just beat SC, didn't expect it to be longer than FC.
I gotta say,
that Deus Ex Machina felt like a JRPG parody or something. I expected something silly like not-dead-anymore Loewe riding a mecha to save them, but Cassius riding an ancient dragon was 100% overkill
I feel like Cassius being 100% overkill every time he appears is sort of the point. He's like this incredibly competent ideal nobody else could ever hope to reach.
And it would make his eventual, totally-going-to-happen death in the series' penultimate entry all the more poignant.
I assume that if they were to ever make a character like him or Laura's dad playable it'd be in the final game of the saga where they bring everyone back for a big epic finale where he'd be playable for one special battle.
Regarding SC's ending, I agree it's pretty fair because everything was established prior. Also the fact that (SC spoiler)
Cassius didn't die when it totally seemed from FC like he was gonna be the dead dad trope, made me like FC/SC even more because they didn't go that route and Cassius is still alive and kicking butt. Though yeah, he's probably gonna die by the end of Kiseki, especially since Falcom's riding the tropes a lot harder these days :>(
I assume that if they were to ever make a character like him or Laura's dad playable it'd be in the final game of the saga where they bring everyone back for a big epic finale where he'd be playable for one special battle.
idk about that. There have been times where extremely powerful characters join in for a bit as playable and they're amazing. It's one of the things I really love about the series.
Speaking of Deus Ex Machina and stuff, like one of the Sen posts here complained about, from my experience with Sen so far, a big dumb thing with the writing is how much they pull deus ex machina crap out of nowhere because they can't realistically move forward with their setup. It's such a shame writing-wise since Sora and Crossbell were pretty good about setting up and establishing believable scenarios that paid off.
I was wondering even at the start of Sen 1, when you're introduced to a main cast of a bunch of school kids, how realistically in the Kiseki world are these characters ever going to be able to take down major players like Oroborous and stuff? I mean in Sora series you had Bracers, a lot of characters who'd spent their life fighting and adventuring and were experienced warriors. In Zero/Ao you had COPS (sorta), and some of the cast had a lot of battle experience so it was believable they could take down the odds. But in Sen it's a bunch of kids, so how does Falcom realistically make them strong enough to be major players?
By making them lose all the time! (even if gameplay-wise you could totally win the fight :| ) ...and then constantly having deus ex shit save their ass! And when that doesn't work, by giving the main character
secret over 9000 ultimate powers that allows him to get out of any situation
oh and also giving the main character
A giant fucking super mech deus ex card to pull in drastic moments.
Sen 1 and Sen 2 so far is just continually unearned bs ass pulling to get out of every situation and it's all because Falcom wanted to sell an rpg about a bunch of school kids and they had to figure out how to realistically have them be incredibly strong to enough sway the country and continent's future like in Sora and Crossbell.
It's pretty cheap, silly and bad trope-y writing, but hey, at least it's quite fun & entertaining. Still, hope the next series bails on an all-kids cast so that they don't write themselves into a corner so much in terms of power levels. If it's Calvard, they can start by making Zane not just some NPC support character, but part of the main party. He's a cool dude, an adult and strong. Good start!
By making them lose all the time! (even if gameplay-wise you could totally win the fight :| ) ...and then constantly having deus ex shit save their ass!
minus the losing part. The whole "I lost but I wasn't even fighting seriously. See how easily I could crush you all? You're lucky I gotta go" happened a dozen times. That masked dude alone pulled that at least three times, and still ended up alive
. It's jarring to see that kind of trope in the same game as Estelle.
I can't say it was entertaining though.
After a while it was clear the rest of the game would follow that pattern, so I was clearing chapters expecting an enforcer to show up in the end, show me how shit I was and then go back to the guild to get my You Tried badge before doing it all again
It's been a huge problem with Kiseki games in general. Sen 2 is the latest game so it's just kinda gotten old because it has all of the repetition from past games behind it.
It should be noted that most of the SSS in Zero/Ao weren't very strong in the story but they slowly became stronger and stronger throughout. By Ao, they're mean, fighting machines.. By Sen 3, I fully expect asskicking action by the Thors group if we see them again, lol.
Sen 1 Chapter 4 consecutive ass-pulls (with additional facepalms thrown on top) to move the plot was just legendary, I cannot recall something of equal magnitude in a Sora game. The whole time it was happening, I just couldn't believe it.
Characters are a bit better than the Sen games but the story does an asspull at the end that is similar to the ending in God Eater 2 RB and the gameplay is piss easy even on nightmare.
Cassius reminds me of Hiko Seijūrō from Ruronin Kenshin, a guy so competent and overpowered they had to keep writing ways to keep him out of the main story so he wouldn't end it instantly.
For the 3rd chapter they probably shouldn't have another final boss that's
stationary, so easy to cheese them with earth wall
I was wondering even at the start of Sen 1, when you're introduced to a main cast of a bunch of school kids, how realistically in the Kiseki world are these characters ever going to be able to take down major players like Oroborous and stuff? I mean in Sora series you had Bracers, a lot of characters who'd spent their life fighting and adventuring and were experienced warriors. In Zero/Ao you had COPS (sorta), and some of the cast had a lot of battle experience so it was believable they could take down the odds. But in Sen it's a bunch of kids, so how does Falcom realistically make them strong enough to be major players?
What a silly comparison. In Sora you had 16 year old Bracers -- of which one slept through most of her education; in Zero/Ao you had a 18 year old police graduate -- and an 18 year old law student; and in Sen you have a 17 year old students of a military academy. Once again, I feel your critique is invalid.
It's fun and solid, but that's pretty much it. Although it's hard to shake off the sentiment of it being a Kiseki game, you would do best to approach it along the lines of Gurumin, Zwei and Nayuta.
Characters are a bit better than the Sen games but the story does an asspull at the end that is similar to the ending in God Eater 2 RB and the gameplay is piss easy even on nightmare.
Sophisticated Fight is probably one of my all-time favorite "normal" battle themes. It's funny, I wasn't feeling it at first, but then something just clicked for me, and I came to massively appreciate the craft that went into it. The phasing, pacing, instrumentation choices, harmonic language, percussion usage (the kit-pattern is god-tier)... Even the ramp up into the C section; just the way the modulation sequence in the bass voice is handled is so fucking perfect, holy shit. Just the drive it has is phenomenal. Then the escalation when you have C' with the further harmonization is fantastic. It's just so intricately crafted and expertly put together that the appreciation I have for it is immense. I'm not kidding when I say that I can and do listen to it for hours at a time on repeat (and trust me, I DO).
What a silly comparison. In Sora you had 16 year old Bracers -- of which one slept through most of her education; in Zero/Ao you had a 18 year old police graduate -- and an 18 year old law student; and in Sen you have a 17 year old students of a military academy. Once again, I feel your critique is invalid.
Though I haven't played Sen II yet (can't wait!), just looking at their backgrounds and combat lineage is enough to tell me what I need to know too. Just look at Rean, Fie, and Laura for starters.
What a silly comparison. In Sora you had 16 year old Bracers -- of which one slept through most of her education; in Zero/Ao you had a 18 year old police graduate -- and an 18 year old law student; and in Sen you have a 17 year old students of a military academy. Once again, I feel your critique is invalid.
Uh, I think you're mis-remembering some of this stuff. In Sora, one of the two 16 year olds is
a full fledged ex-Oroboros agent who can take on characters like Mueller all by himself.
, not to mention the party is joined by characters like Agate, Scherazard, Zane and stuff who've been doing this for a while. Yeah Tida relies on her mechanics, and Chloe is just an alright Art's user, but they definitely have some strong hitters in their party, so it makes sense they can hold their own at times.
In Zero/Ao you had a Police academy graduate (more believable than freshman at a military academy), and (huge Ao spoilers)
one of the ex-top leaders of the strongest mercenary group on the continent; and an expert-ability-pushed girl whose like Ren. Who are also later joined in Zero by Post SC strength Joshua & Estelle, and at various times characters like Arios and Dudley and stuff. Then Ao brings in a one of the freaking Knights with Wadji and a military person with Noel. Oh yeah and a trained from birth magic assassin of Calvard. Yeah, Ellie isn't that strong, but the cast is a fairly believable group of mixed strengths that Falcom could write kicking ass and taking down groups like the Red Constellation and taking out Oro agents by the end with some luck.
Sen's story would play out differently if characters like Sara and Olivert were part of the party from the start, since realistically they'd be able to handle their own more. But they aren't, and Falcom's way of writing how a bunch of military freshmen are able to get themselves out of underpowered situations is either an asspull, or (Sen 1 spoilers)
MC springs magical powers momentarily trope.
or (Sen 2 spoilers)
MC springs magic robo trope.
.
Also Sen 2 just has some laughably silly stuff because of the schoolkids angle. Like I'm a little past the part where (Sen 2 spoilers)
They literally give the kids the ship. I had to laugh at the part because it was just so ridiculous in the context of what's going on politically and whose involved at this point. Like they put a captain hat on the 2nd year girl and hand her the keys. Would've been a little more believable if at least Olivert stayed on board and was the captain. It just feels like fantasy anime at this point.
I completely blame Falcom trying to pander to otaku audiences with an all school kids cast as one of the reasons the story feels so forced and full of tropes at times. I do think Falcom does try to write semi-realistic stories with Kiseki and not have ridiculous stuff like a high school kid beating down some trained military operative, and so they had to come up with ways within the semi-realistic universe of kiseki for a bunch of kids to be a reckoning force in a short amount of time and they had to pull some pretty deus ex stuff to do so. Just ask yourself if the lead characters in Sora (Estelle) or Zero (Lloyd) didn't earn their stripes in those games compared to Sen's Rean who so far doesn't feel like he's earned anything since he wins with cheat codes.
Also Lloyd's the best because not only does he win with brawns and skills, but he wins with deduction and brains because he's a smart dude. Estelle is awesome and Rean is decent enough, but Lloyd is an extremely satisfying lead.
Fwiw, I love Sen 2 so far. Especially where I'm at as it's just so much fun like Ao. Game is 100x better than S1. Can't put it down. I really dig the cast. Heck a lot of the characters that looked like B-list rejects at first have ended up being great. I can't think of a single character I dislike. The world is nice and the gameplay is quite good for the most part. Plus the story's entertaining. It's just a bit silly in certain respects.
Fwiw, I love Sen 2 so far. Especially where I'm at as it's just so much fun like Ao. Game is 100x better than S1. Can't put it down. I really dig the cast. Heck a lot of the characters that looked like B-list rejects at first have ended up being great. I can't think of a single character I dislike. The world is nice and the gameplay is quite good for the most part. Plus the story's entertaining. It's just a bit silly in certain respects.
Also Lloyd's the best because not only does he win with brawns and skills, but he wins with deduction and brains because he's a smart dude. Estelle is awesome and Rean is decent enough, but Lloyd is an extremely satisfying lead.
Lloyd wins with brains and skills and personalities because that's all he's got. He doesn't have supernatural power, nor can he summon giant robot, and he isn't from a noble family.
Falcom really tries too hard on Rean. They just throw in all the anime protagonist trope as if the military school setting is not anime enough. Lloyd's party members all have their moments, while in Sen I and Sen II, Rean just takes care of everything. Seriously, Rean is too OP. Falcom must nerf him in Sen III so that other party members can have a chance to shine.
Just ask yourself if the lead characters in Sora (Estelle) or Zero (Lloyd) didn't earn their stripes in those games compared to Sen's Rean who so far doesn't feel like he's earned anything since he wins with cheat codes.
going from that naive, inexperienced Rolent girl to saving Liberl after one round trip throughout the kingdom sort of strained credulity to me. She's also surrounded by allies who are always pleasant, understanding and don't really challenge her point of views. It unfortunately felt a bit like she just rode the coattails of people indebted to her father. Rean at the beginning of Cold Steel seemed more competent compared to Estelle at the end of Sky FC.
going from that naive, inexperienced Rolent girl to saving Liberl after one round trip throughout the kingdom sort of strained credulity to me. It unfortunately felt a bit like she just rode the coattails of people indebted to her father. Rean at the beginning of Cold Steel seemed more competent compared to Estelle at the end of Sky FC.
That's exactly what it is and it's great. Estelle's power is
the power to draw people to her and hold the team of people from all different walks of life together, which gets them through it. Even at the end of SC she goes on a journey to improve more because she's still got a ways to go. But I definitely felt like she's much more mature by the end of SC and especially The 3rd than who she is at the start of FC. I really felt like I saw Estelle grow and she's still growing and she still pulls people together and that makes her a great lead character.
That's exactly what it is and it's great. Estelle's power is
the power to draw people to her and hold the team of people from all different walks of life together, which gets them through it. Even at the end of SC she goes on a journey to improve more because she's still got a ways to go. But I definitely felt like she's much more mature by the end of SC and especially The 3rd than who she is at the start of FC. I really felt like I saw Estelle grow and she's still growing and she still pulls people together and that makes her a great lead character.
That's the thing, though, the games didn't really sell me on that. I love Estelle and her personality, don't get me wrong, but the whole "she's like a sunshine who brightens everyone" felt somewhat hokey and unearned.
Almost every allies she met with were pleasant from the start, and they continue to be supportive and understanding until the end. And it's not just Estelle, either: nobody bats an eyelash over Joshua's past. Olivier is accepted right back into the party despite lying to everyone and the Sky Pirates were welcomed with an open arms by virtually everyone.
Instead of feeling like Estelle having an irresistible appeal that make people gravitate towards her, it felt like she just happens to gather a cast of characters who are really, really nice.
I completely blame Falcom trying to pander to otaku audiences with an all school kids cast as one of the reasons the story feels so forced and full of tropes at times. I do think Falcom does try to write semi-realistic stories with Kiseki and not have ridiculous stuff like a high school kid beating down some trained military operative, and so they had to come up with ways within the semi-realistic universe of kiseki for a bunch of kids to be a reckoning force in a short amount of time and they had to pull some pretty deus ex stuff to do so. Just ask yourself if the lead characters in Sora (Estelle) or Zero (Lloyd) didn't earn their stripes in those games compared to Sen's Rean who so far doesn't feel like he's earned anything since he wins with cheat codes.
Also Lloyd's the best because not only does he win with brawns and skills, but he wins with deduction and brains because he's a smart dude. Estelle is awesome and Rean is decent enough, but Lloyd is an extremely satisfying lead.
One of the reason that I liked Lloyd is that he's just a regular dude and knows his limitations but never gives up despite the whole world wants him dead. Also, Lloyd's development and personality is like Simon from gurren lagann which I love ex
( Finds a little girl in a suitcase, receives help from former antagonist to break out of jail, people that he knew turned everyone against him, follows his aniki's footsteps, voiced by the same guy and etc)
Rean on the other hand is too overpowered even when he's in "danger" there's always something up his sleeve and just does some special techniques that you've never seen before. So far Rean's limit is so inconsistent that it only doesn't work when the plot demands it.
I'm not sure what game you played Aters, but Rean is far from a character who single-handedly resolves everything while others just sit & watch, at least in Cold Steel I. He is the leader of the group and a focus of the story, sure, but almost everything he does in Trails of Cold Steel I is a group effort. He consults other people in the party, they go through issues together & other people come up with ideas/ways to resolve things or are more knowledgeable about some things in different situations that make them more valuable to the group than Rean is at those moments.
He doesn't even win all that many times in Cold Steel I, other than against a few people who are students themselves. Most of the time they are just good enough (as a group) to manage to hold their ground until some more experienced people/reinforcements arrive to save them. Even when (Cold Steel I)
he technically COULD maybe beat the guardian in the old school building alone with his Dark Super Saiyan power-up, he calms down and eventually beats it with the help of Crow.
I just started SC, walking around the first chapter. Some questions:
Is it mostly going back to the same places as the first game and seeing how they changed? It's nice that I get a refresher on FC since it's been such a while since I played it.
Also is the game difficulty a lot harder than FC? I'm playing on "normal" and the bosses are tough, with high HP and the ability to do lots of damage/drain resources quickly.
SC can be a bit harder near the beginning, but you get access to some better characters & arts & craft pretty early on and can even make certain characters so OP that it makes the game really easy past those initial challenges, if you so choose...
going from that naive, inexperienced Rolent girl to saving Liberl after one round trip throughout the kingdom sort of strained credulity to me. She's also surrounded by allies who are always pleasant, understanding and don't really challenge her point of views. It unfortunately felt a bit like she just rode the coattails of people indebted to her father. Rean at the beginning of Cold Steel seemed more competent compared to Estelle at the end of Sky FC.
Her inexeperence, slackedness, leaning on others, her lineage, and her Raw Animal Magnetism (ask Josh ) are constantly used, especially in the exemplary ch. 6 where you see her alone and that sunshine even attracts the aims of Weissman who mistook it for the darkness that led many there plus her delicately defusing of Joshua on the brink.
I put in my "review" that was my GOTY vote here that the repetiton of so much good stuff in SC wore down theming in it (basically no concrete evidence that Ouroboros was active till ch 3 and ch 7 wouldve only been a single tower visit with a round one vs Renne would have done wonders for their mystique as enemes.
The real overpowered character in SC is Attack Food. Even gets buffed with Morale and the like. Can turn the whole game into a joke if desired. Personally I only used them on Poms
So, I'm like 2 hours into SC, and holy hell is it better. In like, every single way. The new music is fantastic (battle themes, in particular, are a massive improvement.) It sounds like Falcom again!
I also like that the game wastes precisely no time in getting to the good stuff. It's go time. The battle system seems snappier, too, between the sped up movement and more dynamic camera.
So, I'm like 2 hours into SC, and holy hell is it better. In like, every single way. The new music is fantastic (battle themes, in particular, are a massive improvement.) It sounds like Falcom again!
I also like that the game wastes precisely no time in getting to the good stuff. It's go time. The battle system seems snappier, too, between the sped up movement and more dynamic camera.
The real overpowered character in SC is Attack Food. Even gets buffed with Morale and the like. Can turn the whole game into a joke if desired. Personally I only used them on Poms
I just did the fight I think you are talking about. It was intense. If I hadn't been carrying tons of food crafting ingredients at the time I think I would have been hosed.
Bascially the attack food is super overpowered, there are a couple new foods you can get just before that fight and if you can craft a few of those, you have a good shot at doing what is needed for max BP. It was tough and a bit random even then.
So, I'm like 2 hours into SC, and holy hell is it better. In like, every single way. The new music is fantastic (battle themes, in particular, are a massive improvement.) It sounds like Falcom again!
I disliked the new normal battle theme, seemed like a huge stepped down from sophisticated fight. Wish I knew how to mod the game so I could add Sophisticated Fight back in, would have made the experience so much better.
