Yes and it's a shitty situation that was one of the reasons that drove me out of PC gaming. Now it's coming to consoles (in a slightly less shitty fashion)
Kotaku: Sony is working on a PS4.5; briefing devs on plans for a more powerful PS4
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Yes and it's a shitty situation that was one of the reasons that drove me out of PC gaming. Now it's coming to consoles (in a slightly less shitty fashion)
LostDonkey
Member
Except 90% of online gaming on PC is free of charge. You're not paying a premium to play against other users in a controlled, level playing field. That's the difference.
bitbydeath
Member
At least it'll be cheaper than the new TV I'll have to buy.
timmyp53
Member
Fixed.
Have you not seen the past threads regarding Xbox's lack of crossplay? Plenty of console gamers apparently are dying for users of other machines (both stronger and weaker) to join them.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
No it isn't the same, that was the point, the PS4k is even less of a difference than many of the things consumers already accept and buy and re-buy every year. Other markets can have yearly models etc, but the console market isn't even allowed to have a upgraded revision 3 years later because...it hurts some people's feelings?
sandkiller
Member
Nice, thanks!
When people buy a console, it comes with the expectation it lasts the full length of a generation before the next, without pressure to upgrade mid-cycle.
Maxey
Member
What?
Honest question: what's stopping the playing field from being leveled by the developer?
Just to note, I'm more skeptical that 4K gaming will be the norm for this rumored model. I'm more inclined to think that 4K would be for video playback and indie titles. 1080p is more likely to be the norm, I believe, leaving frame rate and effects up for grabs. Effects/details can be toned down on the older model, so that frame rate and resolution can be equal, can they not?
LostDonkey
Member
I think it was a dig at piracy.
To play devil's advocate..what is the definition of a generation's "full length?" or how do we judge what "mid-cycle" is?
Agent X
Member
This is a good post, which essentially mirrors my own feelings on this matter.
Also, as I saw others mention earlier, the prospect of frequently updating the hardware every year or two means that the hardware producer must invest more money in R&D. This in turn might drive the price of hardware upward, since they'd be inclined to earn a profit on the console at or close to its release.
At this point, I'd prefer they focus on the next full generation step, and maintain compatibility with existing games and peripherals as much as possible. They already have been doing minor updates (such as increasing storage capacity) going back to last generation, and that's fine, but I would recommend saving any major revisions to the hardware for a true next-generation system.
LostDonkey
Member
Nothing I suppose, only the uproar of customers who bought a superior console being pegged back at the same settings at the "standard" ps4. Could you imagine.
What would be the point of buying an upgraded PS4k that could do 1080/60 or 4k/? in every game(hypothetically), if it was pegged back to 30fps to cater to PS4 users. Or-They would have to have separate networks/servers for each platform, I don't even know if that's feasible.
This could be circumvented by making 1080/60 the norm for multiplayer, but PS4 would have a smaller amount of effects/detail.
Actually, isn't Internet lag significantly longer than the input lag difference between 30fps and 60fps anyway? Also, in that train of thought, would an upscaled 4K provide that much of a competitive advantage?
Everytime this is brought up as a counterpoint it gets ignored. Let's push the point. Why would we need a new half-step console 3 years in? Why not just let the generation run its course to 5 years so people get good ROI on their units?
Not entirely true. PC users have the option to turn down graphic settings to run games at max frame rates and level the playing field.
If an older system can only manage 30fps while the newer system runs at 60 That's a distinct disadvantage for users of the old system. Unless they start implementing graphic tweaking or at least pre-sets on consoles.
Hello? This is Hailun!
Member
Actually yes. Mercedes released the C400 and immediately discontinued it and released the C450.
Bmw with the M235 and M2.
People were pissed.
Napalm_Frank
Member
Can't really read the whole thread, do we have any juicy rumours not in the OP?
I don't care about 4K at all but if developers bother to have 60fps in most games on this thing I'll buy it.
I don't care about 4K at all but if developers bother to have 60fps in most games on this thing I'll buy it.
A nice non-explanation.
There's no definite answer especially with how they can choose to lengthen or shorten it.
True. People on both sides.
timmyp53
Member
He is the evidence that times change,
EdwardTeach
Member
Wow, I am truly amazed that konami put so much faith in a Gartner report. Pathetic really.
timmyp53
Member
Not surprising to me.
Right. It's based off previous generations and historical expectations. If they decide to end this generation here though, why not just call it PS5 instead of 4.5? The half-step naming convention pushes the idea of a mid-cycle.
mugurumakensei
Member
It's not level in the first place. Not all people are the exact same distance away from the MP servers, have the exact same router, have the exact same bandwidth, and have the exact same number of connected devices on their local network. Those things add a difference in latency that often exceeds 50ms. The difference in lag from 30 to 60 FPS (16.67 ms). That is frame rate differences are inconsequential to MP.
LostDonkey
Member
I guess that could be one way of dealing with it.
I'm sure all these things have/are being looked into. it's a dilemma for sure, at least for me, especially when they are charging for the privilege to play online in the first place. If it was free I would be a bit more meh.
All I know is I have a significant advantage online against friends who run at lower framerates than me in competitive multiplayer games on PC. BF4 being a prime example.
As for the 4k question, it's 8 million pixels native vs 2 million for 1080. That's got to give you some advantage in clarity, especially over long distances. It's quite a difference. I'm not sure if this is going to be native 4k or upscaled from 1080?
bitbydeath
Member
To push 4K, gives people a reason to buy 4K
Sony
Sony
You can either say 4K to it and keep using og PS4 and play the same games or you can upgrade.
It IS kind of lame to not have it for PS1 games at the least admittedly. And if it's a constantly evolving platform may be an outright mistake to not get that ASAP and create confidence in the platform being one they can just keep investing in as the final word in PlayStation.
I'm sure there were people in previous generations who wanted a much shorter cycle.
Isn't there cheating in pc online? Could have sworn I had issues with a guy Metal Gear online who couldn't die. I like the controlled environment of console multiplayer. This is a legit question because I feel like I've experienced that before.
LostDonkey
Member
It's as level as it can be. Do you really want the added latency in fps as well?
it certainly is not inconsequential from my own personal experience.
It makes sense if they're pushing 4K, but in a general sense I don't see it, unless their reasoning is they want to be able to push hardware upgrades faster.
It does feel too "sure," but the evolutionary console stuff is very much what we're hearing right now.
Napalm_Frank
Member
I wonder if Horizon will be the graphical showcase to push this if it's coming this year.
ghostwritingduck
Member
I don't get why people are outraged about this in a world where a new $500 iPad is released every year. It makes sense if a current PS4 is playing games at medium PC settings and the PS4.5 plays them at high settings. It's still a closed system offering all the perks of console.
ugh_the_boot
Banned
There is no way this will happen, but on the off chance that it does I'm more than happy to pay for a newer, more powerful console.
LostDonkey
Member
There is a degree of cheating in certain games, depends who and what you play really. most devs are quick to squash problems asap these days as long as people are willing to report it.
I agree, console multiplayer is certainly less problematic in that regard.
timmyp53
Member
Im just taking a guess at what he meant.
RadarScope1
Member
Not really. One of the biggest mistakes we all make is assuming what comes next will look more or less like what came before. Things do change.
This console business model dates back to the mid 1970s. Come on people -- things will change as time goes on. It happens in all parts of life.
most games that have competitive multiplayer already do this, so it is really not a problem at all.
and yes, lag is the real issue in any multiplayer.
I can see where you're coming from on that. I, personally, wouldn't mind buying a PS4.5, but I can understand why it might make some wary. I guess we'll have to wait and see what comes of this.
Napalm_Frank
Member
AFAIK most big multiplayers on PS4 are 60 fps anyway. CoD, Battlefield/Front, FIFA, upcoming Uncharted 4...
Division/Destiny I guess are the only one that are 30fps that jump to mind.
Division/Destiny I guess are the only one that are 30fps that jump to mind.
i think by now we have seen these websites mis intrepet things over and over.
and there is a difference between supporting 4k output via some upscaler or something ... which is fine.
but, the basic ps4 spec that ps4 games are coded to complie with - will not change.
can mark my works on that, e3 or whatever.
Sony are simply not dumb enough to break the golden rule of why console software allways beats out PC software ..and thats the closed box, that remains static throughout the course of the platforms full life cycle.
and sony have even less reason to figgle with that model being so far out in front than they ever have. it's always the trailing platforms that have had to resort to these add-ons etc to try and spin something to the masses to warrent a sales bump.
so no, we aren't ever going to see PS4.5 sw hitting the shelves, forget about it. no one is going to need to sell their ps4's in order to run their games in some increased poly count mode etc. is not going to happen.
forget about it.
and, thats a good thing.
i just hate seeing this constant urge for some PC like model console life cycle, the PC model is a total fail, why go that way?
but yeh ..just not happening, sorry.
mugurumakensei
Member
Frame rate if locked is a lot less of an issue than constant changes due to network behavior. Your brain learns to predict movement if the the frame times and frame rates are consistent. On the other hand, it can't compensate if one second lag is 50ms then the next is 100ms then going down to 33ms.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
PS4.5 isn't going to cut short the generation though. Its just a mid-upgrade. Lets not act every Playstation games after PS4.5 launch, is going to be PS4.5 exclusives.
LostDonkey
Member
No I'm not saying I would mind either, I think it's a good way for hardware to go. Another 7 year cycle would be disastrous, but it needs to be done carefully and properly.
I'm sure it will be and I'm probably over reacting a little, but coming from a PC gaming background I know how much differences in hardware can change the feel of online gaming. Something that consoles have nailed down over the years as being really close and level throughout all users, could be messed up by adding another + model into the mix.
Look at Driveclub. A game that is full of online leaderboards and competition could seriously be messed up by something like that. You don't have to be directly connected to the other user so internet latency is not an issue, but someone running the game at 60fps is going to have an advantage in lap times, reactions etc over a user running at 30fps. I've done the test myself on many racing games on PC and even though it can only be half a second here or there, it is a difference the higher up in fps you go.
Kralamoonard
Member
I agree with you, and hope you're right, but I don't know whether to trust the insider guy.