Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread: Don't believe everything you read, Son

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Man of Steel was a largely joyless film that bugged me the more I thought about it after it was done. It was a great DBZ film, but insofar as being a movie about "Superman", it didn't hit any notes right in terms of overall tone or characterization for a guy who's supposed to be the best humanity can be. (It's crazy how many people seem to outright think that's not a story worth telling anymore.)

BvS seems like it cranks up the violence from Man of Steel and somehow makes it even less joyless. I was kinda "meh" finishing MoS, then slightly irritated an hour later. As I do more research, I get the feeling I'd be pissed for most of BvS, and bordering on livid for days afterwards.

I uh...I think I'm gonna go see Zootopia. >_<
 
Krejlooc said:
IM1SuGP.gif
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Yes, the ship works that way. Problems? The ship has its own AI thus it's fine to talk to it. Your issue is with the brevity of the exchange and not the method.
 
So like.

If Bruce is spiraling headlong into a pit of despair and depression since Jason died.

Where the fuck is Dick? He should be there with Bruce 24/7 to make sure his fucking dad is okay, that's what he'd do.
 
Was it Kryptonite gas? I thought Batman implied it was Scarecrows fear toxin. That and it seemed to have no real effect on doomsday
 
I'm also severely confused how this movie had time for Holly Hunter and Scoot McNairy, and yet, Gordon is suspiciously missing even though Batman hijacks his signal three or four times.
 
Karkador said:
That boy scout stuff kind of feels like a holdover from the era of "boys don't cry". IMO, Superman is a little more interesting, a little more "belonging to Earth", if he feels the same things we do. I mean, I was led to believe that his earthly emotions were his greatest strength.
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He shows those emotions to Lois (which was a plus in this movie!) and to his mum and to his friends. But he is generally a cheerful guy who is happy to do his job (and that's what the world sees) because really what else is he going to do? Wallow in anguish about how much power he has and not do anything? Clark is a person who decided not to do that - despite the fact that he'd honestly rather not have those powers and just wants to live a normal life with his wife. I'm not saying he shouldn't have that phase, but he went through it already in the comics, and MoS was him working through it.

I don't think being a cheerful and hopeful person makes him inhuman. I think it makes him more human, especially when he's put up against characters who are very different (like Bruce). It's what sets him apart. It sometimes makes him kind of annoying, but mostly he should be an inspiration. Not because of his powers, but how he reacts to them. But it's pretty hard to pull off in a way that's nuanced and interesting.

bananafactory said:
I can't get over how bad everything involving that amputee was. Good grief
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I couldn't really take him seriously because I was too busy wanting him to yell that Joe McMillan was a false god.

If only Lee Pace had played Clark. Or Luthor.
 
The Driver said:
Just got back from my second viewing and I wanna clear up some of Batman's "kills".
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The knife thing I was surprised people were complaining about because it's clear it was in the shoulder.

If you say those guys ducked the gun fire, I'll believe you. Still, I don't like a Batman that forces a guy to aim at his homies and makes them fire.

To be honest...I think I wouldn't have cared about Any of this stuff if I had enjoyed what had come before it. It's like...because you're not enjoying the big picture that all the little things bother you even more, does that make sense?
 
All the AI says it can basically tell him about everything. So we're supposed to believe he asked it specifically about creating a Superman-killing monster from the body of a dead Kryptonian? Or that just came up in conversation organically?
 
bananafactory said:
All the AI says it can basically tell him about everything. So we're supposed to believe he asked it specifically about creating a Superman-killing monster from the body of a dead Kryptonian? Or that just came up in conversation organically?
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Probably the same time the ship told him about Darkseid. It's quite obvious a giant info dump was not added to this movie as it really needed it once Lex got into the ship.
 
bananafactory said:
All the AI says it can basically tell him about everything. So we're supposed to believe he asked it specifically about creating a Superman-killing monster from the body of a dead Kryptonian? Or that just came up in conversation organically?
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The fingerprint scanner is what really got me, like even the Flash tv show avoided that type of shit with their "super advanced ai tech" scene.
 
I enjoyed 300, Watchmen and MoS on first viewing but this? Please disregard anything I say if Batman killing is no thing for you but it is for me. Batman doesn't kill. It's part of his character. It's how Joker, the greatest villain of all time gets to do his thing. It's how tragic and heart wrenching The Red Hood story is. There was a rumor the solo Bat flick is Red Hood. How does that movie work now that Batman blatantly kills?

A huge part of the set up of this movie is anyone in existence ever believing Superman would shoot people. I mean...how is that a thing? How did that get great lit?

The nightmare sequence then Flash showing up was bizarre as hell. For a giant, long movie characters like General Zod and Doomsday just pretty much show up with little explanation as to who they are and what they do. How does anyone not already invested make sense of most of this film?

The big fight between Batman and Superman? Oh hey, we don't have to if you just listen to me! It turns Bats into a lumbering idiot and Superman lesser for continuing to engage when his mom's life is on the line.

There are small moments here and there that are nice but my expectations were low and I was still bewildered by most of the thing. Man Of Steel, Star Trek: Into Darkness, Thor 2, Iron Man 2/3 are movies I'll go to bat for but this thing? It's in the Xmen 3/Wolvering Origins camp imo.
 
I like how batman introduces himself to Martha Kent as Superman's friend.

Spends years of his life ruing and plotting against this dude, hears that their mom's have the same name, and are totally friends after that.
 
bananafactory said:
Wait, the ship told him about Darkseid now?
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Not shown in the movie. Most likely this is where he learned of Darkseid as the ship has knowledge of over 100,000 worlds. No other point in the movie is there a point where Lex has access to anything that can resemble a lead on Darkseid except the mother box from Cyborg's video.

Movie needed that info dump to make things more clear.

Krejlooc said:
I like how batman introduces himself to Martha Kent as Superman's friend.

Spends years of his life ruing and plotting against this dude, hears that their mom's have the same name, and are totally friends after that.
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Did you want the iconic, "I'm Batman" moment?

Your criticisms are really funny.
 
Toa TAK said:
None of these characters felt like heroes.

And that bums me out way more than TASM2 or even FANT4STIC FOUR.

Good Christ at that Caravaggio shot with Batman, WW, and Lois cradling a dead Jesus Superman.
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Oh god, I just realized how much of a bigger Jesus metaphor Superman will become with his eventual revival. :|
 
Dahbomb said:
Up until this point Batman had perceived Superman as an all powerful alien. Even while the beat down he was telling Superman how he isn't really a man. So when he learns that Superman has a mother (who is presumably human) he cares for it shakes his notion of who Superman is. The Martha thing triggers his own memory, bringing out a soft spot in him.

You could make the argument that Batman should've done his research a long time ago and figured this out by himself but you know... Zack Snyder. That scene itself was fine I thought... I had legitimately forgotten that both of their moms were named Martha so it was a nice tie in.
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Yeah, I know what they were going for. The point wasn't lost on me. But it supports my point about what kind of person batman is and how he regards the people he does kill. Just the fact that superman had the same name as his mom was enough to completely shake him out of his murderous rage. What about all the random thugs he kills because it never occurs to him that they have mothers who love their sons too?

It's the shittiest possible characteristic you can have in an antihero that kills imo.
When Frank Castle had something similar happen in daredevil where a guy yelled at him for killing his dad. It comes to him as a slight shock, but while he acknowledges the pain he causes to potential innocents, he maintains his conviction in that the people he kills are deserving of death. And if I happen to still disagree, that's fair enough, but at least I respect that he's intelligent enough to look at it from all sides and acknowledge what he does for what it is.
But what the movie's scene conveyed is that batman just completely dehumanizes the people he kills and is just shocked to his bones when he realizes he can relate to something he thought was deserving of death. It's not that he intelligently decided that these people deserved to die, he just doesn't see them as people period.

Snyder's Batman is... I don't even know what. An asshole? A monster? He's not the kind of person I think should be associated with the word hero in any capacity. Let's say that.
 
Kevin Spacie doing the same thing that Jesse Eisenbergh did in this movie would've made me actually take him seriously. Like, Lex Luthor did some hardcore villain shit in this but I could never take the guy seriously at all.
 
GotchaForce said:
I enjoyed 300, Watchmen and MoS on first viewing but this? Please disregard anything I say if Batman killing is no thing for you but it is for me. Batman doesn't kill. It's part of his character. It's how Joker, the greatest villain of all time gets to do his thing. It's how tragic and heart wrenching The Red Hood story is. There was a rumor the solo Bat flick is Red Hood. How does that movie work now that Batman blatantly kills?.
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TBF, they could say he had he no kill rule till Todd was killed. Then he stopped giving a fuck and just did whatever the fuck he wanted, including the branding stuff.
 
GotchaForce said:
I enjoyed 300, Watchmen and MoS on first viewing but this? Please disregard anything I say if Batman killing is no thing for you but it is for me. Batman doesn't kill. It's part of his character. It's how Joker, the greatest villain of all time gets to do his thing. It's how tragic and heart wrenching The Red Hood story is. There was a rumor the solo Bat flick is Red Hood. How does that movie work now that Batman blatantly kills?
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This is Batman years after he killed The Joker and is no longer Batman. He's pissed off and wants to beat the shit out of the alien responsible for killing more people he cared for and all the destruction he was a part of.
A huge part of the set up of this movie is anyone in existence ever believing Superman would shoot people. I mean...how is that a thing? How did that get great lit?
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Who the hell would ever vote for Trump?
Oh wait..
Nothing is surprising to me what people will believe after the shit we all experience in real life lol.
The nightmare sequence then Flash showing up was bizarre as hell. For a giant, long movie characters like General Zod and Doomsday just pretty much show up with little explanation as to who they are and what they do. How does anyone not already invested make sense of most of this film?
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Zod was in Man of Steel though.
The big fight between Batman and Superman? Oh hey, we don't have to if you just listen to me! It turns Bats into a lumbering idiot and Superman lesser for continuing to engage when his mom's life is on the line.
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Batman wanted to get his punches in, and he did. When he feels powerless is when Batman becomes a savage.
 
Frozenprince said:
So like.

If Bruce is spiraling headlong into a pit of despair and depression since Jason died.

Where the fuck is Dick? He should be there with Bruce 24/7 to make sure his fucking dad is okay, that's what he'd do.
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That's what I"m saying!

I'm guessing either Dick doesn't exist, Dick is the dead Robin, or something went very wrong.

Or Snyder is going full Frank Miller and making it so that (Dark Knight Strikes Again spoiler)
Dick is Joker because Bruce wasn't in love with him. Because being adopted means either your dad is fucking you or you want to fuck your dad. *sigh*

I mean, in the comics, the only reason Dick starts talking to Bruce again after Jason's death is because of Tim. And there's clearly no Tim here. But even then, time should have eased those wounds.

And then there's DCAU Dick, who just straight up left because they decided to do that weird gross thing with Babs and Bruce. (That Dick is also pretty unlike his comic counterpart, who's far more concerned with being the golden oldest child.)

At the end of the day, Miller isn't concerned with Bruce being a dad, so Snyder probably isn't either. :/
 
I think its a 7 but after watching this I kinda wish they made man of steel 2 with the "Death of superman" storyline and "Dark knight returns" with their fight as the finale. Felt like it was too much for a movie,especially since everything was thrown in the last 30-40 min .

Also kinda wonder what their plan is for justice league? It might be injustice but from Lex's words maybe the God that heard the bells was Darkside?
 
Veelk said:
Yeah, I know what they were going for. The point wasn't lost on me. But it supports my point about what kind of person batman is and how he regards the people he does kill. Just the fact that superman had the same name as his mom was enough to completely shake him out of his murderous rage. What about all the random thugs he kills because it never occurs to him that they have mothers who love their sons too?

It's the shittiest possible characteristic you can have in an antihero that kills imo.
When Frank Castle had something similar happen in daredevil where a guy yelled at him for killing his dad. It comes to him as a slight shock, but while he acknowledges the pain he causes to potential innocents, he maintains his conviction in that the people he kills are deserving of death. And if I happen to still disagree, that's fair enough, but at least I respect that he's intelligent enough to look at it from all sides and acknowledge what he does for what it is.
But what the movie's scene conveyed is that batman just completely dehumanizes the people he kills and is just shocked to his bones when he realizes he can relate to something he thought was deserving of death. It's not that he intelligently decided that these people deserved to die, he just doesn't see them as people period.

Snyder's Batman is... I don't even know what. An asshole? A monster? He's not the kind of person I think should be associated with the word hero in any capacity. Let's say that.
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Batman has been fighting criminals like the ones that took his parents from him. It's quite obvious from his dreams or just in general that he's still very haunted by their deaths. I can see this Batman (and every Batman) being emotional if his parents are brought up. Especially by the one he calls the enemy. Could the scene have been handled better? Yes.
 
Subpar Spatula said:
Batman has been fighting criminals like the ones that took his parents from him. It's quite obvious from his dreams or just in general that he's still very haunted by their deaths. I can see this Batman (and every Batman) being emotional if his parents are brought up. Especially by the one he calls the enemy. Could the scene have been handled better? Yes.
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You are completely missing the point. Read again.
 
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