Atomic Odin
Member
So the Knightmare sequence, does anyone thinks they have left a door open for injustice to happen?
Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread: Don't believe everything you read, Son
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Mr. PlayStation
Member
Right right. Now if you could answer the rest of the stuff I had asked
thank you there sir!Lion Heart
Banned
I agree with most of this!
Very good movie and it looked brilliant. Doomsday was the worst part of the movie and I thought it was really gripping until that fight but the fight was necessary I guessssss.
Not as good as Nolans movies (they are way different though), but I thought Nolan could learn a thing or two from this. Fight scenes were handled better than Nolans movies and damn, they shoulda used a mic on Bale, it would have been a great solution to Bale voice.
exmachina64
Banned
No, Luthor creates Con-El, Superboy.
On your second viewing, make sure not to reach for popcorn when Bats goes to rescue Martha.
Pay close attention to the guys in trucks firing at him in the Batwing.
The camera doesn't cut when Batman dispatches his movie justice onto them.
Eh, I enjoyed it as a mindless action film, but there's not going to be a second viewing for me. Maybe I'll purchase the blu-ray.
Mr. PlayStation
Member
On your second viewing, make sure not to reach for popcorn when Bats goes to rescue Martha.
Pay close attention to the guys in trucks firing at him in the Batwing.
The camera doesn't cut when Batman dispatches his movie justice onto them.
But why aren't people able to get over this interpretation of Batman?
That was the moment the movie turned from being a little off to being completely un-salvageable for me.
I can't think a Superman movie is great when they decide to feature real-world violence like suicide bombers in our nation's capital as a pivotal plot point in a movie that's sure to attract kids, kids that should have a Superman or Batman movie to call their own that doesn't tell them that hope is dead and that your heroes can't save you from the very real evil that plagues our world, it's despicable.
I hate that Zack Snyder has lowered Superman as an icon into this dreck. Batman's an easier character to write because his world is a dark reflection of our own filled with psychopaths, genocidal maniacs and two-faced politicians. Superman's world is better than that merely by his existence. Having a scene with a suicide bomber killing people in the Senate with Superman in it is not something I want to see in a Superman movie. Batman (and the evils of this world) have brought Superman down to our level, a Superman without hope, which misses the point.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Lex's motivations are the same as everyone else's I guess, doesn't like Superman's power. To be blunt it's really because he's Lex Luthor and that is what he's like.
He doesn't want to communicate, the ship had knowledge and he asked to see it.
We don't really know about the Darkseid part. The movie handicaps itself to setup movies. The only thing we can assume is that learning of Darkseid made him go crazy.
chaobreaker
Member
I just found out that that dream sequence with Batman was not him dreaming up some apocalyptic future with Superman ruling the world but actually was just a teaser for some alternate-universe Justice League movie plot that they just jammed into the middle of this movie and I am right pissed right now.
Atomic Odin
Member
The effigy being burnt was a confusing moment for me. Wasn't it immediately relayed that it was a suicide bomber and not Superman that resulted in that incident. Or were those people blaming him for not saving them?
He couldn't win in that situation really. Help people on your own, get roasted. Appear to be held accountable and present your case & shit happens which is not your fault, get roasted even more.
GeorgioCostanzaX
Member
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
The people suspected that Superman is an associate of the bomber.
I'll never look at Granny's Peach Tea the same way again.
I dunno, at some point a certain interpretation might as well be a different character.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Effigenius
Member
Right right. Now if you could answer the rest of the stuff I had asked
Hey man, I cherry picked the easy one for a reason!
Even in the comics, lex's motivation for hating superman is a little thin. Originally I believe it was because superman was directly or indirectly the reason Lex became bald. They don't use that any more. In more modern days it's because lex basically ruled metropolis and then superman showed up and overshadowed him. In the movie, I am not sure, but he is involved with dark side somehow, so maybe dark side wants supes eliminated?
This batman seems very similar to how frank miller wrote him. Obsessive and maybe a little crazy, but you might have to be to do what he did.
As far as the killing goes, I mean, they never actually show anyone die. People are drawing their own conclusions, but it's not technically impossible he didn't kill anyone and as we know in comics (and movies and tv) if you don't witness the death on screen it didn't happen. Batman seemed to be going out of his way not to kill people, punching them out instead of shooting them in the face for instance.
Effigenius
Member
I understand that. But the problem I guess is that Frank Miller's Batman is a really weird Batman interpretation to go for when starting a Justice League Universe. In this case starting with a Batman solo would've been much better and give better context to his brutality.
I feel like the most disappointing part of the film was the action set pieces. Compared to MoS, which had both the Smallville fight and Zod vs Supes. Both shot in day time and while a bit shaky, you could make out everything. This on the other hand was shot at night. It looked cheaper and was harder to see. At times, I could tell if it was WW or Superman being thrown.
In fairness, I often found Lex Luthor's motivation to be simplistic and petty in the comics as well. He just hates on Superman because he's jealous/resentful of his Super Swag. Before that, he dedicated his hate boner to superman because he (wrongly) thought he was responsible for his baldness.
And in this, his motivation is clear, even if it is similarly juevenile and small. He resents God because he didn't save him from his father and has therefore settled onto to the belief that God is either not allpowerful or actually evil. Average neckbeard atheist.
So then he projects this beliefs about God on Superman, like everyone else is doing. Atleast a significant portion of the population thinks is both good and allpowerful. Because the aforementioned belief is so central to his life, that so many people believe otherwise angers him, so he seeks out a way to break Superman's charade, placing him in a position where he has to either prove he is not one or the other.
The only really nonsensical thing is him projecting his beliefs about God onto Superman as if he is actually the Divine himself, but in fairness, it's not like Superman does anything to fight this association. I don't get impression he wants to be viewed as a god, but when he saves people and they touch him reverently, he's just sitting there like that one awkward guy at a party that doesn't talk to anyone instead of, you know, talking to them, saying hi, showing them that he's just a guy. The public committee meeting seems to be the first time he attempts to do this, and it literally blows up in his face before he has a chance to get the word out.
This whole movie could have been resolved if he just did one interview with Lois like they did in Superman 1978.
And in this, his motivation is clear, even if it is similarly juevenile and small. He resents God because he didn't save him from his father and has therefore settled onto to the belief that God is either not allpowerful or actually evil. Average neckbeard atheist.
So then he projects this beliefs about God on Superman, like everyone else is doing. Atleast a significant portion of the population thinks is both good and allpowerful. Because the aforementioned belief is so central to his life, that so many people believe otherwise angers him, so he seeks out a way to break Superman's charade, placing him in a position where he has to either prove he is not one or the other.
The only really nonsensical thing is him projecting his beliefs about God onto Superman as if he is actually the Divine himself, but in fairness, it's not like Superman does anything to fight this association. I don't get impression he wants to be viewed as a god, but when he saves people and they touch him reverently, he's just sitting there like that one awkward guy at a party that doesn't talk to anyone instead of, you know, talking to them, saying hi, showing them that he's just a guy. The public committee meeting seems to be the first time he attempts to do this, and it literally blows up in his face before he has a chance to get the word out.
This whole movie could have been resolved if he just did one interview with Lois like they did in Superman 1978.
Because you have to EARN it.
I just generally think people have become accustomed to the style Marvel is using with being brighter and lighter.
So when they see something like this film they find much of it jarring and finding it too heavy and 'lacking fun'.
Kinda ironic in a sense since much of Batman's world is dark (and so it's kinda hard to escape that for much of this film), but still the Burton Batman films had their fun whilst being dark. Maybe BvS just seems too serious or something to people, with not enough to lighten the mood.
Thinking about it now, it this is probably the first movie I feel frustrated with. I feel bad for Affleck, but also for fans of Batman.
They finally gave us the Batman we've all been wanting. The paranoid, broken down, and losing grip with reality. Who sits there, does detective work, and also prepares for battles. The version everyone has been asking for and they set it up fucking great. He's back being Bat after the Joker killed Robin. And even in combat, he is not this invincible beast. you see him getting stabbed, shot, and getting by thanks to his suit.
They basically hit it out of the park with what people have been wanting Batman to be.... yet its wrapped in this shit stain turd.
WB better redeem themselves and let him make a stand alone Bat film.
They finally gave us the Batman we've all been wanting. The paranoid, broken down, and losing grip with reality. Who sits there, does detective work, and also prepares for battles. The version everyone has been asking for and they set it up fucking great. He's back being Bat after the Joker killed Robin. And even in combat, he is not this invincible beast. you see him getting stabbed, shot, and getting by thanks to his suit.
They basically hit it out of the park with what people have been wanting Batman to be.... yet its wrapped in this shit stain turd.
WB better redeem themselves and let him make a stand alone Bat film.
BewareTheBatsie
Member
I do laugh at how that guy was holding a fucking flamethrower to Martha. She's a defenseless old lady, a gun would have been fine with taking her down.
Umm, the point of all that was to kill Superman and hey, check it out, totally worked. The bad guy won. He went to prison but he won.
So far I haven't seen anyone acknowledge that. Luthor beat everybody.
Did you not catch the whole "She's a witch. The mother of a demon. Death by fire" thing Luthor played up? That's why he had a flamethrower.
Mr. PlayStation
Member
I have tried explaining to folks around, they simply just stay on their opinion that this is not Batman. I have told them how this is the definitive batman based on the comics. To their defense, they keep comparing this with Nolan's Batman. To which I say, without any discredit to the Dark Knight Trilogy(which I absolutely loved too), that Batman was based on another version of him from the comics/animated tv series. This Batman V Superman Batman is from the The Dark Knight Returns movies, where he's tired and fed up with criminals, that he doesn't care a damn if the enemies get to live another day to fight against him.
Nostremitus
Member
Just watched it. I'm not a DC fan. I don't get the hate. It was a good movie.
One question, though... Who was that in the temporal vortex?
One question, though... Who was that in the temporal vortex?
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Flash
Nostremitus
Member
Didn't look anything like the kid in the video from Lex's files.
Mr. PlayStation
Member
It was, look carefully. Based on my second viewing I am saying this!
Biggest-Geek-Ever
Member
BewareTheBatsie
Member
Yeah, I got that, but still a flamethrower was over-kill and looked ridiculous with Batman staring down this guy holding this big-ass flamethrower.
Nostremitus
Member
Something, something, something, Snyder's idea of art.
Over-kill is the name of the game with Luthor. If it's not done big it's not worth doing.
I think if he did detective work properly, he would have known who Superman's mother was (assuming he knew Superman's actual identity). And he might also have been willing to listen the first time or two Superman started a fight by saying "Yo Bruce wait a sec", obviously pulling his punches and holding back while attempting to talk.
I hate the rhetoric about what 'true' comic book characters are.
Here's the truth: These characters are story mechanics, like any other characters. What they are....what they truly are, is whatever the story has them be. If a story had Batman be a russian ballerina dancer, then that would be a true batman story, by the virtue of the fact that Batman is in it.
I don't even think about the comics when I watch comic book movies, because they're not relevant. The movies are judged by their own merits. I don't hate batman because he isn't being 'true' to his comic book origins.
I hate him because he's sadistic and cowardly and paranoid and fearful and, and I want to emphasize this, not compelling. He's not an interesting character on any level for me. His motivation is poorly justified, his interactions with other characters are hollow and unnatural, he comes off as insecure with how he regards superman....
He is the worst Batman I've ever seen, and if he wasn't batman, if he was an original character in an original IP, he'd still be a scumbag character I'd never want to see in any other story again.
To think we have to see two Snyder films with Batman before we get a single solo Batman film. Affleck probably knows that he did well in this film despite the reviews. No one seems to be complaining about him
Louis was such an idiot in this movie. Why the hell is she trying to be a superhero. Why the hell did she throw the rod in the water instead of giving it to batman or superman, and why the hell did she go into what was basically a war zone to get it.
And a Snyder batman flick would be great. Or at least, one launching off of what he set up
And a Snyder batman flick would be great. Or at least, one launching off of what he set up
The Batman portrayed in DKR only works because there are decades of comics putting Bruce's principles to the limit, so a story about a worn and exhausted Batman can work. Even in that story, Batman stops short of killing the Joker.
This movie/continuity is unwilling to put in the work and lay the foundation of these characters. A vandalised Robin costume isn't enough to justify the BAT BRAND.
DangerMouse
Member
Agreed. I really enjoyed it.
This. He was fine either way, he even says it.
It wasn't dropped though. Lois got key information by meeting that military guy thanks to the bullet. She even asked him to go public about it, which he obviously refused to do, so yes technically it ended up a dead end but I don't see how it was "dropped."
No. All those people died to give Bruce one final push over the edge since Lex wanted his battle with Superman "now" not whenever Bruce got around to it. It also got Superman questioning himself for failing to notice and failing to save those people and some of the people to start wavering on their trust in him. He beats himself up for being so selfishly absorbed in why he was coming there that he was blind to anything else going on and annoyed at himself for missing noticing the bomb, which is what he tells Lois on that balcony. And that explosion purposefully timed with Bruce getting the letters that Lex set up (Bruce even asked why the letters were only just getting to him now) is the whole reason Bruce wanted to "get down to business immediately."
Sure he was going to do it anyway but that made it a "we're doing this now" thing. And then as we know Lex maneuvered Superman to going there.
Pepper Potts did it and so can Lois. No suit required.
It was stupid. Why did she throw the spear in the water instead of telling batman to take it? Why did she try and get it again? All she accomplished was nearly dying.
Pepper did
get super powers
Great post. Nailed exactly my thoughts. He's basically the same as Lex in this shitfest.
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