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[BronsonLee]

Yeah, which is why Zod did not bother me in MOS like it did everyone else. Was hoping he would be more experienced in this movie. Perhaps by Justice League time, we can get experienced hero Supes.

I'd be on board for that. Let's get the Superman that everybody wants to see.

 

[T'Zariah]

I agree 100%. People like to shit on Goyer and idolize Terrio. I have no idea who wrote what in BvS but based on Man of Steel and the Dark Knight trilogy, I think the Goyer hate is insane.

Terrio wrote the entirety of BvS.

Goyer only got credited as a writer because of somewhat arcane rules about giving credit to writers,set by the WGA.

 

[Alandrus Sun]

Superman has human emotions. He was raised in Earth. If you don't want to accept that and want to believe your rewrite of the scenario is better then go ahead, you may as well say, "WHY DIDN'T SUPERMAN PUNCH DOOMSDAY INTO THE DESERT?!"

It's laughable.

He does and the whole point of his character is managing those emotions while striving to be the perfect beacon of humanity. Superman could use his laser vision and blow off Lex Luthor's head, solving all of his problems in a heartbeat, but he doesn't because to give into those emotions would be wrong. It's that struggle and his choice to always do the right thing that makes him Superman and human.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

No, Superman is the very ideal of good. He's not just some dude with human emotions, he is the very perfect human. Him losing control is the exact thing that everyone, especially Lex Luthor has always feared. Superman would not lose control because Batman shot some bullets at him.

This Superman is a bit of a dick though. Did we forget what he did to that guy's truck from MoS?

I don't think we should be comparing to past iterations. This Superman exists in his own universe with no pre-written rules about who is supposed to be.

 

[Veelk]

I'm quoting myself here because there is a lot of talk about the morality of Batman and his no kill rule and all that stuff. It was the first post I made on BvS and looking back on it, I feel it's what digs into the heart of the problem of the movie for me. The problems of BvS aren't about comic book purism. Even logical sense of the characters actions are problems, but not what makes the movie as bad as it is.

It's about the fact that this is a universe founded on a pretty poisonous ideological thesis.

Okay, I just saw it. And....well....

First, let me say that one positive thing that came out of RT's score is that my expectations were set so absymally low that I probably enjoyed it more than if I went in blind. There were a handful of parts that I really really liked, a lot of stuff I didn't, but I don't want to analyze the movie bit to bit right now. It's late and honestly, I feel this is going to be buried in the landslide of people posting their own opinions. So I want to talk about the one thing I think is really important, and why I think the review scores are so low.

The basic thesis of this movie is fear and paranoia. When I'm thinking back on the movie, it's the motivation behind every active character's plotting. Well, mostly. Lex's motivation is just a really stupid hate fest, but I guess you could interpret that as a different kind of fear. But Batman is the star of the show, and he doesn't really have a strong reason to want to fight superman in the end. He's just afraid of Superman. He has nightmares about possible futures (which are implied to be alternate earths or something), and....shit, it really is as simple as that. It's present in the general populous as well of course. People have the same general fear. Superman is powerful, therefore must be evil somehow. They launch a nuke at Superman first chance they fucking get.

And it's all just so unbelievably stupid. Luthor's hate and Batman's fear of Superman stems from the idea that he is god, and God can't be good and all powerful, so Superman must be evil! And honestly, Superman doesn't communicate anything at all. He goes around saving people, but doesn't seem to talk to them, implying that community hearing is the first time he planned to actually speak to them, tell him what he's all about. Which makes the first hour of the movie really draaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag it's ass. It's literally all build up with pretty much no action beats that advance the plot (I don't count Batman's hallucinations as such), which all could have been suberfuged by Superman coming down and just explaining his position, why he does what he does....it's so bizarre. I don't get the impression that he wants people to associate him with God, but he does literally nothing to discourage that association, which lead to the fighting events of the movie.

And I have to take a moment to point out what a terrible batman Batfleck is. I don't mean in terms of acting, because Affleck is a skilled actor and he brings it to the table. I also feel that this will be a controversial position since I've seen a lot of people praising him as the highlight of the movie. And while I certainly don't like how he kills people, I'm ultimately no comic book purist and don't believe there is any 'core' to these characters a writer can adhere to and I take the characters as they come on their own.

And what this Batman is is a fucking idiot manchild. I already mentioned how stupid he is for how he lets his fear control him, but I don't think I made it clear. He comes across as a school yard bully, both in mannerisms and intelligence. It comes out in his fight the clearest. His goal in that fight is to kill superman. But he doesn't do that. He had his chance as soon as he first hit Superman with the gas. If this was really about just removing a threat to humanity, Batman should have stabbed him in the face right then and there, ended it as quickly as possible. But instead, he goes out of his way to shit talk him, to slowly beat him to maximize his pain and humiliation as much as possible. One scene I especially noted is the first time Superman regained his strength, as Batman was punching him. He noticed that his hits were having less and less effect until he couldn't hit him at all, and he immediately backed off, nervous and trembling. He looked so scared, so fucking cowardly because now he couldn't lord his power over Superman. I mean, tactically, it'd be the smart thing to do since he can't hurt him without the Kryptonite gas, but the way he does it was exactly like a bully realized his victim wasn't powerless anymore. And then once he does hit him with the gas again, he again sloooooooooowly takes him to where he has the knife hidden where he plans on killing him.

And then....Superman blurts out his mom's name, and he is just has this shocked ass look as he puts the pieces together. "Martha? My mom's name is Martha...and his mom's name is Martha....holy shit, he has a mom. The thing I am about to kill has a mother? Just like mine? He's...he's like a person or soemthing!" That was by far the lowest point of the movie for me.

Like I said, I am no comic book purist by any stretch of the imagination. But what in the fucking hell is this shit? Batman is a idiot schoolyard bully. I know that Zack Snyder delivers on adolescent male power fantasies, but this is beyond anything I expected and...how do I explain this? I don't want to say "i can't accept this" but it's the only phrase that comes to mind. Because insofar that Batman is a paranoid idiot thug, he's written....well enough, lets say. But he's not the character I want to see batman as. It's the worst incarnation of Batman you can make, no matter how good the writing is. Even if he was an original character, I'd think very low of this kind of person, who lets his fear control him to violence that harms others, and then is in shock and awe that the people he's hurting are actual fucking people. What a fucking moron. What a fucking shithead. Who looks at this character and thinks that this is a hero? I know Zack Snyder is a violence fetishist, but this is ridiculous. He seems to idealize how much pain and misery a man can cause another (atleast in the fictional context), and sees that as the ideal action a hero can do.

But I look at his batman and I'm just disgusted with his work. And I think many people are too. This film is stupid on many levels, but you know what, it's also good on a few of them. Wonder woman was great to watch, and the 3 of them getting together was legitimately hype. The action choreography is really great, and there's plenty of spectacle. It even improved on what I complained about in MoS and improved on aligning the fighting style to the characters. And I didn't even mind Jesse Eisenburg's version of Lex Luthor as much, even if I think he's clearly derivative of Heath Ledger's Joker. It's definitely an improvement on MoS. It's a better made film.

So why the negative feedback? Because I think people agree, even if they don't voice it in the same way. This film is nasty. It's toxic. Batman is not a hero that any of us want to see, even if he's well written in the context of the movie or well acted or well realized by the direction of the film. Superman's major act of heroism here leads to his death. The citizens of the world are fearful and paranoid and hateful. Even Wonder Woman is in hiding because she resents the world of man, which is hostile towards her. This film is oppressively negative, and ending on a heroic note where batman says "We need to be better" doesn't erase the two hours of toxic vibes of humanity we got before. It's a film that makes you feel bad, and you walk out thinking how shitty the world that Batman and Superman inhabit is.

I don't want Snyder's superhero universe. It's too repulsive.

And in case you think this is an accident, also posted this AT4W that takes down what makes Frank Miller's interpretation of superheroes just not work in a day and age that values inclusiveness and compassion.

To kind of go along with my previous post of how Batman v Superman is based in fear and paranoia, it reminded me of a Atop the Fourth Wall Review I saw.

For those that don't know, AT4W is a show run by Linkara kind of like Nostalgia Critic, but he reviews comic books. Now, he's reviewed other comic books, including Frank Miller Batman comics, but here is where he goes all out against the guy and his writing idealogy. Given how much of BvS is based on Frank's work, I think this rant really exemplifies what I find so nasty about this story. This is more directed toward Frank's Islamophobia, which really isn't present in BvS, but the idolization of fear and cruelty is certainly there.

https://youtu.be/iAty4uerJUI?t=1463

This is the real problem with these movies as I see it.

 

[jett]

I'm going to say it.

I think Goyer's script in MoS is a masterpiece compared to BvS.

The Smallville Battle in MoS is better than any action set piece in BvS.

Superman's first flight in MoS gave me more feels than the goddamn Trinity together in one shot in BvS.

MoS may have had some questionable editing during certain scenes, but at least it followed the Trey Parker rule and their not seemingly random, than this bullshit.

Faora was much more badass than WW in BvS

Zod was a better villain than both Lex and Doomsday combined by orders of magnitude.

Superman actually smiles MORE in MoS than in BvS

Lois Lane felt more like a character in MoS than the damsel-in-distress used to forward the garbage plot in BvS.

My point? Man of Steel is a better film than Batman vs Superman is just about every fucking way possible and it's an enormous step down.

No lies detected.

 

[Atraveller]

Zod is like the Kryptonian Stannis.

 

[Sou Da]

I'd be on board for that. Let's get the Superman that everybody wants to see.

I don't really think Snyder cares about that tbh. I feel like by the end of JL part 2 the Superman status quo will be fucked beyond belief.

 

[Penguin]

I took it as a material the ship uses that is radioactive to Kriptonian race, kind of like Plutonium for Humans that could be found in Submarines, that wasn't a statue I presume, just a Ship part...now how did they knew this was important and what it contained inside, I'm not sure

The scene makes it look like Lex had his goon going around buying rock samples from the locales.

So they probably didn't know it was "important" just that it could get them money.

 

[Doctor Decimate]

I hear this Batman fella is a little bit stubborn

 

[JTripper]

I'm going to say it.

I think Goyer's script in MoS is a masterpiece compared to BvS.

The Smallville Battle in MoS is better than any action set piece in BvS.

Superman's first flight in MoS gave me more feels than the goddamn Trinity together in one shot in BvS.

MoS may have had some questionable editing during certain scenes, but at least it followed the Trey Parker rule and their not seemingly random, than this bullshit.

Faora was much more badass than WW in BvS

Zod was a better villain than both Lex and Doomsday combined by orders of magnitude.

Superman actually smiles MORE in MoS than in BvS

Lois Lane felt more like a character in MoS than the damsel-in-distress used to forward the garbage plot in BvS.

My point? Man of Steel is a better film than Batman vs Superman is just about every fucking way possible and it's an enormous step down.

I don't.......disagree with any of those points.

Fuck. Now I'm thinking positively about MoS. Damn you!

I hear this Batman fella is a little bit stubborn

He's a bit of a party pooper!

 

[Alienous]

Coming after the Faora/Nam-Ek fight of Man of Steel, or even the Zod fight, I was surprised by how much less I enjoyed the Batman/Superman fight in this. It's so plodding, and it's really no better than the source material on which it is based. And for the film to be building up to it, it was disappointing.

The one part I liked was Batman punching Superman, and realizing his punches are having less and less of an impact. But then Batman hits him with another gas grenade after Superman gains the upper hand and it didn't feel like there was the back-and-forth you'd want from a good fight.

 

[duckroll]

You know, in the scene near the start in the Indian Ocean where the guy was going down and digging out samples from the World Engine, was anyone else expecting a quasi-horror scene during the dive where Aquaman comes out of nowhere and fucks him up as a warning to not mess with overworldly shit?

 

[Alandrus Sun]

This Superman is a bit of a dick though. Did we forget what he did to that guy's truck from MoS?

I don't think we should be comparing to past iterations. This Superman exists in his own universe with no pre-written rules about who is supposed to be.

Except that part made sense and was actually a good character moment in the film. He isn't Superman yet and we see him struggling with the immense power he has and yet his inability to do what he wants when presented with a trying problem. He could easily kill that abusive trucker with a finger, hell he could simply beat him up without risking killing him or seriously injuring him, but he doesn't. Yet, because he is still human he has to let that rage out somehow and decides to demolish the dudes truck. Nobody is hurt, nobody will know he did it, and we're able to see visually the struggle of his character.

 

[inm8num2]

How it should have ended:

This.

 

[Caja 117]

It wasn't in the ship. They were terraforming Earth to be like Krypton so with that comes radioactive material like Kryptonite.

Thank you.

And if Luthor wanted Batman to steal it all along, why did he hire truck loads of bazooka wielding bad guys to transport it?

I don't think He wanted BAtman to get it, it only made his plan much easier, he probably wanted to use it to create the real Doomsday.

How it should have ended:

Batman's machine gun trap uses razor sharp shards of kryptonite.

Roll credits.

Except bullets alone couldn't do the trick, Batman needed to Gas Superman first to be able to use the spear on him, the same reason why Batman Gased Doomsday before Supes jumped him.

 

[JTripper]

You know, in the scene near the start in the Indian Ocean where the guy was going down and digging out samples from the World Engine, was anyone else expecting a quasi-horror scene during the dive where Aquaman comes out of nowhere and fucks him up as a warning to not mess with overworldly shit?

Yeah. I actively thought "oh so we're getting into cameos that early huh"

 

[Subpar Spatula]

He does and the whole point of his character is managing those emotions while striving to be the perfect beacon of humanity. Superman could use his laser vision and blow off Lex Luthor's head, solving all of his problems in a heartbeat, but he doesn't because to give into those emotions would be wrong. It's that struggle and his choice to always do the right thing that makes him Superman and human.

He doesn't laser Lex because he has Martha and would release her upon conditions. He was ready to. That was, like, super obvious. Hard to miss.

He's not striving to be the perfect human being in this iteration. He's a dude with super powers who people revere or hate. Martha tells him this.

I don't think He wanted BAtman to get it, it only made his plan much easier, he probably wanted to use it to create the real Doomsday.

The way I see it is the kryptonite was Doomsday deterrent but Batman screwed that up and Lex still released him for no raisin. Hopefully the extended edition covers this as there's a big giant gap missing from what the AI tells Lex there's knowledge of over 100,000 worlds in this ship, to dragging Zod's body in.

 

[Alandrus Sun]

He doesn't laser Lex because he has Martha and would release her upon conditions. He was ready to. That was, like, super obvious. Hard to miss.

He's not striving to be the perfect human being in this iteration. He's a dude with super powers who people revere or hate. Martha tells him this.

I'm talking about Superman in general, not this film's weird asshole Superman.

Except bullets alone couldn't do the trick, Batman needed to Gas Superman first to be able to use the spear on him, the same reason why Batman Gased Doomsday before Supes jumped him.

No, he gassed him because Superman would easily be able to stop him before he was ever able to use the spear. The spear itself would have killed him had Superman just stood there and let himself get stabbed. Kryptonite bullets would have killed him.

 

[BiGBoSSMk23]

You know, in the scene near the start in the Indian Ocean where the guy was going down and digging out samples from the World Engine, was anyone else expecting a quasi-horror scene during the dive where Aquaman comes out of nowhere and fucks him up as a warning to not mess with overworldly shit?

That would have been hilarious.

Im picturing it as Captain Hook running away with the clock and the croc in pursuit behind him.

 

[munchie64]

And in case you think this is an accident, also posted this AT4W that takes down what makes Frank Miller's interpretation of superheroes just not work in a day and age that values inclusiveness and compassion.



This is the real problem with these movies as I see it.

I definitely disagree with you about Batman in this film for the most part, but those "Miller Time" reviews are indeed fantastic and that moment in particular speaks a lot to stuff that appeals to me. I know the two halves of my sentence seem at odds with each other, but you gotta believe me lol.

Anyway, great posts as always Veelk!

 

[NoTacos]

LOL is this how you run your business? You should probably hire an accountant.

You can't force people to cash their check. The most you can do is reissue it. Like I said, it should have been handed off to the police.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

I'm talking about Superman in general, not this film's weird asshole Superman.

Superman in general means nothing here. You're forcing an amalgamation of a character from various comic series into a dude who's in 1 series. It's not good criticism.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Except that part made sense and was actually a good character moment in the film. He isn't Superman yet and we see him struggling with the immense power he has and yet his inability to do what he wants when presented with a trying problem. He could easily kill that abusive trucker with a finger, hell he could simply beat him up without risking killing him or seriously injuring him, but he doesn't. Yet, because he is still human he has to let that rage out somehow and decides to demolish the dudes truck. Nobody is hurt, nobody will know he did it, and we're able to see visually the struggle of his character.

He ruined the guys livelihood. That guys kids will starve, he'll have daily fights with his wife about money, he'll turn to drinking to numb the pain and when, one day he's sitting in a bar, he looks up and sees a guy in a blue suit flying around and shit and says to himself, this motherfucker is the one who destroyed my life and goes on a crusade to show the world that Superman is a dick but no one listens to an drunk, so he goes home and tells his wife, who laughs in his face and in that moment, he realises that it's all over, that no-one will ever believe him, so he goes out back and shoots himself in the head.

Superman killed this man.

 

[Vice]

Thank you.



I don't think He wanted BAtman to get it, it only made his plan much easier, he probably wanted to use it to create the real Doomsday.



Except bullets alone couldn't do the trick, Batman needed to Gas Superman first to be able to use the spear on him, the same reason why Batman Gased Doomsday before Supes jumped him.

Even being around krptonite is enough to weaken him int he film. The spear itself nearly made him colapse in a few seconds. A kryptonite tipped bullet would just go into/through Superman most likely and either kill or cripple him.

The scalpel sized shard was enough to cut through Zod's skin wih ease.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Superman's death means they may be able to reimagine him, even change his costume.
That'd be rad. Make it closer to classic Reeve. Less alieny. He's an earthling now.

 

[Caja 117]

No, he gassed him because Superman would easily be able to stop him before he was ever able to use the spear. The spear itself would have killed him had Superman just stood there and let himself get stabbed. Kryptonite bullets would have killed him.

I need to rewatch the movie, and I'm going to (great Comic book movie), but I'm sure the gas role was to make it easier to the spear to go trough his chest and like it did to Doomsday, this is what Batman talked with Alfred when he realized how to take out Doomsday, Gas to be able to impale him with the Spear.

Even being around krptonite is enough to weaken him int he film. The spear itself nearly made him colapse in a few seconds. A kryptonite tipped bullet would just go into/through Superman most likely and either kill or cripple him.

The scalpel sized shard was enough to cut through Zod's skin wih ease.

From my perspective Superman wasn't 100 percent after the nuke, this was the same topic in TDKR when Superman and Batman fight and part of Batman advantage. the Kryptonite handling on the effect it had on Superman was poor, I give you that, as it was Inconsistent.

 

[Vanish]

Ok so Batman very clearly had no problem killing people. Since that's the case, then why is the Joker still alive? Did Batman used to have a no kill code but now he doesn't? But then you would think it would be the Joker who would be the one to finally make Batman break his no kill code. So why is Joker still alive? Makes no sense. Unless Suicide Squad is a prequel or something.

Also, the movie was decent at best.

 

[Veelk]

I definitely disagree with you about Batman in this film for the most part, but those "Miller Time" reviews are indeed fantastic and that moment in particular speaks a lot to stuff that appeals to me. I know the two halves of my sentence seem at odds with each other, but you gotta believe me lol.

Anyway, great posts as always Veelk!

You like what you like, I'm never going to condemn anyone for that even if I vehemently disagree.

I just really really do vehemently disagree in this case. What Miller does and what Snyder has replicated is really repulsive to me.

 

[Alienous]

Superman's death means they may be able to reimagine him, even change his costume.
That'd be rad. Make it closer to classic Reeve. Less alieny. He's an earthling now.

Well his one suit is torn up. Not as much as it should have been, should have torn his cape, but maybe Batman will make him a suit with underwear.

 

[Blader]

I think Goyer's script in MoS is a masterpiece compared to BvS.

Ha, you know, I was just thinking yesterday that Goyer's MoS script really was much better than Terrio's here. What a bizarre thing to say after three years of shitting on Goyer's script, but here we are.

Superman's death means they may be able to reimagine him, even change his costume.
That'd be rad. Make it closer to classic Reeve. Less alieny. He's an earthling now.

I don't know about making him more like Reeve, but I also had the thought that killing and resurrecting this Superman does offer a weird way of soft rebooting his personality. I don't know why it would work like that, but I guess it's one way.

 

[flintstryker]

So I saw it last night and overall I enjoy it, definitely a flawed movie however the opening is kinda slow and disjointed I think the directors cut may fix this however, overall I enjoy this a little bit more than movies like Force Awaken and AOU mainly because it felt so different.

 

[Joel Was Right]

I'm reading everywhere how the action is incredible, that it is a beautiful shot but big dumb movie, etc.
But that it is dark, gloomy, strange, the characters do things they don't usually do (batman killing, etc.).
Looks like people didn't like the general way this was written. So does this mean people don't like Chris Terrio's work since he's rewritten this thing?

It's kind of interesting how everyone blames Snyder for the story. He doesn't even get writer's credit in the movie opening credits as far as I recall.

Some people were implying everyone would praise Terrio if the movie turned out great, but would blame Snyder if it didn't, I dismissed them at first, but it is eery.
Bronson Lee may in fact be right, critics hate Snyder no matter what he does. lol

It's a beautifully shot movie, and Snyder should get credit for that as this is his main responsibility. The details of the story, however, was penned down by Terrio and Goyer. And yet it is Snyder who the fans want the head of.

 

[jett]

You know, in the scene near the start in the Indian Ocean where the guy was going down and digging out samples from the World Engine, was anyone else expecting a quasi-horror scene during the dive where Aquaman comes out of nowhere and fucks him up as a warning to not mess with overworldly shit?

I also thought we might be getting some Aquaman shit. But I thought they might have stolen some sacred Atlantis artifact that would cause Aquaman to show up later on. According to a fake script I read Aquaman I actually had a much larger part in the movie lol.

 

[Alandrus Sun]

Superman in general means nothing here. You're forcing an amalgamation of a character from various comic series into a dude who's in 1 series. It's not good criticism.

It does. Despite what some weird people are arguing all of these characters have a core and if you violate or go against them then you have totally misused the character to the point where one must ask why you are using them in the first place. You can have a story called Superman in which Clark Kent is a women named Clara Kent who is a prostitute from the planet Krypton, raised by pimps, and uses her powers to vaporize all police officers and marks who gets in the way of her profession, but nobody would call that "Superman." Even those "Elseworld" type stories are attempting to make a point about the general Superman, they aren't just hey what if Superman was a Commie? They are trying to explore something about the central tenets of the character that you can bring back to the overall concept of the real Superman.

I need to rewatch the movie, and I'm going to (great Comic book movie), but I'm sure the gas role was to make it easier to the spear to go trough his chest and like it did to Doomsday, this is what Batman talked with Alfred when he realized how to take out Doomsday, Gas to be able to impale him with the Spear.



From my perspective Superman wasn't 100 percent after the nuke, this was the same topic in TDKR when Superman and Batman fight and part of Batman advantage. the Kryptonite handling on the effect it had on Superman was poor, I give you that, as it was Inconsistent.

No, the films makes it perfectly clear that Kryptonite alone will kill him. The gas was to slow him down so he could actually impale him, it was also pure kryptonite.

 

[Alienous]

It's a beautifully shot movie, and Snyder should get credit for that as this is his main responsibility. The details of the story, however, was penned down by Terrio and Goyer. And yet it is Snyder who the fans want the head of.

Snyder decided to kill Jimmy Olsen. Snyder gave the thumbs up to a murderous Batman. Snyder's the head honcho of this cinematic universe. I won't blame him for the dialogue, but I will blame him for the comic book scenes he tries to translate into the film. I'm pretty sure it wasn't Terrio who decided he wanted to reference The Dark Knight Returns, and all of those disparate references are ham-fisted into the film in a way that harms it and makes the plot a mess.

 

[Caja 117]

Ok so Batman very clearly had no problem killing people. Since that's the case, then why is the Joker still alive? Did Batman used to have a no kill code but now he doesn't? But then you would think it would be the Joker who would be the one to finally make Batman break his no kill code. So why is Joker still alive? Makes no sense. Unless Suicide Squad is a prequel or something.

Also, the movie was decent at best.

BEcause it was the fever that Alfred was talking about, When Joker killed Robin was before the events on MoS, the events of MoS transform Batman and put him down a path of doing stuff like branding criminals which he didn't do before, he was escalating.

No, the films makes it perfectly clear that Kryptonite alone will kill him. The gas was to slow him down so he could actually impale him, it was also pure kryptonite.

YEs it can kill him, but without the gas you would had needed a greater force to impale him with the spear. that was what I took from the movie, based on Alfred and Batman conversation for Doomsday.

 

[Fudgepuppy]

I didn't have any subtitles and the volume was pretty low, so can someone explain the part with the checks. They went to Scoot McNairy and they bounced or what? I thought at first they were by Joker.

 

[Bracewell]

It's been more than two days now and I still can't come to terms with 90% of this movie. Snyder and Terrio simply didn't give a fuck about developing the two characters who're ostensibly so important to this franchise, their names are in the title.

Batman was angry with Superman for what, letting three Kryptonians of equal strength tear shit up across the United States?

And Superman's now angry with Batman for going to town on criminals by branding them, pancaking their vehicles with his batmobile and just generally cutting them to pieces with his fucking arsenal of weaponry. Clark Kent literally says he does not agree with his "brand" (lol) of vigilante justice.

Yet Supes, a being with super strength/speed/hearing/vision etc., continues to punch mortal men through walls, turning them into chutney with reckless abandon just because they threaten to kill Lois Lane? I really don't know who's a bigger hypocrite here, Batman or Superman.

Dawn of Justice my ass, neither of them stand for Justice in any sense of the word.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

It does. Despite what some weird people are arguing all of these characters have a core and if you violate or go against them then you have totally misused the character to the point where one must ask why you are using them in the first place. You can have a story called Superman in which Clark Kent is a women named Clara Kent who is a prostitute from the planet Krypton, raised by pimps, and uses her powers to vaporize all police officers and marks who gets in the way of her profession, but nobody would call that "Superman." Even those "Elseworld" type stories are attempting to make a point about the general Superman, they aren't just hey what if Superman was a Commie? They are trying to explore something about the central tenets of the character that you can bring back to the overall concept of the real Superman.

Superman is a title not a person. Similar to how Batman or Spider-Man are titles. While their masked persona ma be them, it's still a title. The way to differentiate them is by their alter-ego (unmasked persona).

Is Superman from Gods and Monsters really Superman? Is that really Batman? You could make an argument but you would still be wrong. Comic characters are super fluid, welcome to the comic world.

 

[Alienous]

I didn't have any subtitles and the volume was pretty low, so can someone explain the part with the checks. They went to Scoot McNairy and they bounced or what? I thought at first they were by Joker.

Lex Luthor intercepted them, wrote messages on them, and sent them back, to try to get Batman to hate Superman more. Because I guess he knew Bruce was Batman.

The plan only worked because the cheques that were sent back were never shown to Bruce, for some strange reason.

 

[MegaSackman]

BEcause it was the fever that Alfred was talking about, When Joker killed Robin was before the events on MoS, the events of MoS transform Batman and put him down a path of doing stuff like branding criminals which he didn't do before, he was escalating.

Right, but is just a phase, now that he's with the league: Back to the code again.

 

[kmag]

It's a beautifully shot movie, and Snyder should get credit for that as this is his main responsibility. The details of the story, however, was penned down by Terrio and Goyer. And yet it is Snyder who the fans want the head of.

It's a terribly edited movie though, with pretty patchy performances from the majority of the cast (Irons, Affleck and Gadot aside; and Gadot has about 20 minutes screen time and 20 lines of dialogue if she's lucky). Both of those disciplines are responsibility of the Director, especially when he's the creative producer with final cut privileges.

 

[Caja 117]

Right, but is just a phase, now that he's with the league: Back to the code again.

That's the problem tough with this.

 

[Prompto]

Didn't like the movie but I've been playing this on a loop.

Best superhero theme in recent memory.

Rest of the score was kinda meh though

 

[SpideySenses]

Superman's death means they may be able to reimagine him, even change his costume.
That'd be rad. Make it closer to classic Reeve. Less alieny. He's an earthling now.

Realistically he's getting a second chance at life, he'll be part of a group so shouldn't feel like the world's fate is resting on his shoulders, there's really no excuse why Superman shouldn't have a lighter tone and be happier. And that's not even taking into account that Cavill would have more to do and conceivable be much better in the role.

But it's Snyder, so he'll just be mopey and angry about dying.

 

[Caja 117]

Lex Luthor intercepted them, wrote messages on them, and sent them back, to try to get Batman to hate Superman more. Because I guess he knew Bruce was Batman.

The plan only worked because the cheques that were sent back were never shown to Bruce, for some strange reason.

Lex was behind that as well.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

It's a terribly edited movie though, with pretty patchy performances from the majority of the cast (Irons, Affleck and Gadot aside; and Gadot has about 20 minutes screen time and 20 lines of dialogue if she's lucky). Both of those disciplines are responsibility of the Director, especially when he's the creative producer with final cut privileges.

This is very true. They most likely could have salvaged this movie if the editing was better.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

A beautiful lie: https://youtu.be/z9BL59uiAz8?t=70
Is incredible. The opening credits with this song, makes the whole movie.

 

[80s Bad Guy]

After a day away from it I like the movie even more. Lex and Doomsday are the weakest parts, and WW did nothing for me, but overall I can't wait to see it again. I think both Batman and Superman had decent arcs and both finally came to terms with being heroes.