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Batman v Superman Spoiler Thread: Don't believe everything you read, Son
- Thread starter N7Commander95
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With respect, maybe we did see different movies! For me, Batman wanted to stop Superman because of all the collateral damaged he caused during his fight with Zod as well as the current controversies surrounding him. This version of Batman was one who was old, tired and felt like he made no difference in the world. He thought that defeating Superman would finally make an impact in the world that would be felt by everyone.
For Superman, he was being played by Luthor! I mean he had Supes' fucking mom and was going to burn her alive! Superman tried to tell Batman but he was deadset on stopping him.
Pretty hight stakes in my opinion. Batman really thinks he may die but wants to go out in a blaze of glory while Superman is being forced to kill to save those he loves! It was a tragedy.
thecouncil
Banned
Why did Superman leave that downed Kryptonian ship in the center of the city for 18 months? Why didn't he just throw the damn thing into the sun?
Too busy hauling shipwrecks out of the North Pole.
I am reading this interview of Zack Snyder and I just shook my head at it...
http://www.gamesradar.com/zack-snyder-teases-flash-cameo-batman-v-superman/
http://www.gamesradar.com/zack-snyder-teases-flash-cameo-batman-v-superman/
thecouncil
Banned
How can Superman hear Lois from the other side of the globe but not hear his mom get kidnapped?
You know, if this movie was better written, this would be brought up in some way. Batman would acknowledge that he is going to kill superman for the danger he poses alone. Meaning he's not just ready to kill, but he's ready to kill a person that he has reason to believe is innocent of any wrong doing. It would be a difficult thing for batman to acknowledge, but I would atleast respect the dilemma. It'd be like how terrorist soldiers strap bombs to kids and send them out against us soldiers, and soldiers have to decide if they're going to shoot kids because they are going to be a major danger if they don't.
But it all plays with Batman being so oblivious. He builds up this hate boner that he drops when he gets the slightest shred of empathy for the guy. It plays off like he just never considered the possibility that superman might just be a nice guy that goes around helping as best he can.
Yo wtf??
Ok, the only part of the plot from the first half of the movie that felt like things tied together more coherently was the Superman/Lois/Daily Planet/trial stuff. It feels like the rumors about WB demanding more Batman was true since it's like there is a Superman sequel plot (that is kind of boring and not fleshed out) but then there is a bunch of Batman scenes that don't feel they add much to the plot (besides that MoS flashback).
Superman barely says anything despite so much of the story revolving around him and Batman keeps talking despite so little of the plot actually involving him. Even for what is supposed to be some ideological difference between the two, it's more about people monologuing about these ideas than confronting each other about it, you know, in a way that treats them like actual characters with actual motivations and that helps propel the narrative rather than be little breaks in the story where every speech deserves it's own scene that adds almost nothing of substance to the overall plot.
This story is so poorly executed and so inefficiently told, it's hard to believe it's 2.5 hours long and so complicated to follow while also being so shallow. I can't imagine a 3 hour cut would save the film from itself. Every compelling moment is a footnote and what gets the bulk of the runtime is imagery and Snyder's overly self-serious attempt at depth and emotion.
It's also weird that Lex is so over the top and hammy, but he's arguably never funny. He delivers lines in a peculiar way, which can be funny, but his lines are almost always played serious and self-important like even least serious character doesn't even have a sense of humor. It feels like such a disconnect since I kept waiting for him to go beyond the eccentricities and ticks to poke more fun, in a way that makes his character seem surprisingly sharp and deceptive, but it's like Eisenberg came with a take on the character that isn't on the page. If he would have just reeled it in some, it would have been a good performance instead of distracting and obnoxious.
Ok, the only part of the plot from the first half of the movie that felt like things tied together more coherently was the Superman/Lois/Daily Planet/trial stuff. It feels like the rumors about WB demanding more Batman was true since it's like there is a Superman sequel plot (that is kind of boring and not fleshed out) but then there is a bunch of Batman scenes that don't feel they add much to the plot (besides that MoS flashback).
Superman barely says anything despite so much of the story revolving around him and Batman keeps talking despite so little of the plot actually involving him. Even for what is supposed to be some ideological difference between the two, it's more about people monologuing about these ideas than confronting each other about it, you know, in a way that treats them like actual characters with actual motivations and that helps propel the narrative rather than be little breaks in the story where every speech deserves it's own scene that adds almost nothing of substance to the overall plot.
This story is so poorly executed and so inefficiently told, it's hard to believe it's 2.5 hours long and so complicated to follow while also being so shallow. I can't imagine a 3 hour cut would save the film from itself. Every compelling moment is a footnote and what gets the bulk of the runtime is imagery and Snyder's overly self-serious attempt at depth and emotion.
It's also weird that Lex is so over the top and hammy, but he's arguably never funny. He delivers lines in a peculiar way, which can be funny, but his lines are almost always played serious and self-important like even least serious character doesn't even have a sense of humor. It feels like such a disconnect since I kept waiting for him to go beyond the eccentricities and ticks to poke more fun, in a way that makes his character seem surprisingly sharp and deceptive, but it's like Eisenberg came with a take on the character that isn't on the page. If he would have just reeled it in some, it would have been a good performance instead of distracting and obnoxious.
I never even thought of that.
Why did he even need Batman's help to find and save his mother anyway?
flintstryker
Banned
Fairly sure there was a tracking device on Lois
BronsonLee
Member
Furious 7 is amazing in its absurdity, it owns BvS
Jack Remington
Banned
Was anyone else waiting for Lex and the Senator to start fucking when they were getting cozy in his study?
Jawmuncher
Member
I liked it. Jesse Eisenberg stole the show for me. Really liked that lex Luther.
I mean, he does, but he says it with hated. He's angry and vicious that superman exists. He can say that he's doing it because of the danger superman poses, but the way he actually acts when he fights superman, prolonging the fight unnecessarily just to hurt and humiliate him as much as possible works against that statement.
He doesn't come off as someone who has to face the idea of killing an innocent person because external factors might force him to one day be a danger. Anger isn't the response to that kind of situation, it's sadness, atleast when the person in question isn't a fucking cunt of a human being.
And, of course, nothing has changed through the movie. Superman is as much a threat post Martha scene as he is before it. He just changed his mind because he finally empathized for the first time with superman. He realizes he's a nice guy, so what, now he's immune to bad days?
Batman may say it's about the danger superman poses, and that might be the root cause of what batman feels, but the reasons for why he does what he does seem more rooted in fear of the other than a desire to eliminate a threat that is too powerful to be contained.
Because the last story batman was confronted with an innocent threat, he reacted like this:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jWHHsdE_oQg
Don't pay attention to that he spares her. That's just a consequence of what is really happening and not the point I'm making here. Pay attention to the fact that he refuses to let his fear control him. Pay attention that he refuses to look at ace as an enemy just because she exists and is powerful. That he sees her as human and worthy of compassion. Maybe Batman might have killed her in some other universe because he felt he had to, but I don't see him ever hating her just for being, like he does with superman.
BlackGhost
Banned
I kinda was lol
Gah. I liked some aspects of him, but nothing greater materialized. By the end it was just awkward.
When she says "You can call me whatever you want" I was like "Wow, this isnt where I expected this to go."
That said, those "conversations" were my least favourite part of the whole film. It felt like both sides of the script were written for different conversations and attempts at one liners, making it all feel like complete nonsense.
HeartlessNobody213
Member
Was disappointing for me. Not terrible but not all that good. I think the editing was one of the major flaws of the movie.
I had to stop myself from laughing hysterically at that part. Coming after the Knightmare dream sequence was off putting, but I got what they were trying to do since both scenes mention the importance of Lois, one of the only times they bother to have a narrative thread loosely tying together 2 seemingly disconnected scenes. The way it suddenly cuts back to Bruce to this weird guy sticking out of the wall was so bizzare that the way he says he is too soon with zero context was like he was breaking the fourth wall referencing that he was appearing in the franchise too soon.
He shaves but it grows back too fast BOOM THAT'S COMEDY FOLKS
I'll go kill myself now
#notmyflash
I though he was always clean shaven. My knowledge of comics is limited. I only started watching these superheroes movies/tv cause of the arrow show.
BlackGhost
Banned
This high comedy. HIGH!
Lan Dong Mik
And why would I want them?
I really liked it. It absolutely has some flaws. I think the positive aspects of the movie out weigh the negative in my opinion. I fucking loved the Batman vs Superman fight. It definitely worked for me. However the worst part of the movie was the way the fight ended, with Batman completely changing his entire attitude towards Superman because their mothers share the same name. That pissed me off, but not enough from keeping me from enjoying the movie. Batman was an absolute bad ass. I didn't mind the few people he purposely killed. It's a Batman that has obviously seen some shit over the last 20 years, so I found it believable for the most part.
I also still really like Cavil's Superman. I just don't understand the complaints about how he comes off as emotionless, but that's just me. Wonder Woman definitely seemed a bit shoe horned in at times. Could of honestly done without the other super hero cameo's. I'd give it a 7.5. I liked Man of Steel just a bit more.
I also still really like Cavil's Superman. I just don't understand the complaints about how he comes off as emotionless, but that's just me. Wonder Woman definitely seemed a bit shoe horned in at times. Could of honestly done without the other super hero cameo's. I'd give it a 7.5. I liked Man of Steel just a bit more.
ShemhazaiX
Member
That's because the Flash warning had nothing to do with this film.
It's setting up a plot for a later movie.
That isn't to say it's a good idea, just that it'll make sense in a few years time when the Justice League movies are all out.
Solid SOAP
Member
Agreed. The film's first moments show promise that it could happen, but basically after the first 20 minutes the movie loses focus on the one interesting potential plot and becomes a hodge podge of nonsense.
Such a shame. I really was interested in seeing how Superman would redeem himself by the end of the movie, or perhaps not, and he sends the world into chaos. After all, the movie asks us "Must there be a Superman?" If they didn't haven the balls to answer that question for us, at least have a plot that allows us to wonder for ourselves instead of ending in a generic super hero brawl.
The movie's greatest weakness isn't its bleak or dark tone, it's the inconsistent plot. If they managed to maintain ONE plot from the beginning to end at least it would've been competent.
Such a shame :/
Average reviews on RT are 5/10 for BvS and 6.7/10 for F7. I wouldn't call that great. The RT % score can vary more widely because it's just an average of a binary 'fresh/rotten' rating from the critics. It's to give you a feel of whether the movie is worth watching instead of a traditional rating. It a way of distilling the opinion of the critic down to what ultimately matters.
Solid SOAP
Member
They even could've put this stuff at the end or in a post credit sequence and it would've functioned as a good way to keep us interested in the series instead of smack dab in the middle of this dumb slug fest
ivanalexander23
Banned
yeah, and that he lost his friends he worked with that died in that building. But yeah, besides that and the media and Congress piling on making him out to be an out of control God, he did nothing...
Again, Lex knew how to hide things from Superman, he was analizing everything Kriptonian related for 18 months, Superman could not hear a bomb with enough power to completly destroy capitol building, Batman in the other hand was an expert in his own city on how to locate anything, Superman knew he had a better chance than him and on the same time Realized that he alone could not do everything.
this is absolute shit. lazy writing to give batman some kind of motivation to go vs superman. worlds greatest detective doesn't know superman actually saved the planet? lol. would have been a much better movie if they paired them right from the start. watch the animated vs. movies to see what I mean.
thecouncil
Banned
That doesn't explain why Superman didn't hear the actual off-the-street kidnapping of his mother.
20 years in Gotham, how many good remain, how many stayed that way
If there's even a 1 percent chance
Bruce, weary, paranoid and afraid of whan an unchecked or corrupted "alien" can do. After 20 years in Gotham, seeing his friends killed, and others turn, he is past the point of return and decides this Superman is a ticking timebomb.
I mean, I don't get what is hard to understand about his motivation. It's clear as day.
batman is a detective. not a psychiatrist. did we even see the same movie?
Martha is important to him, but his "world" is Lois. Call that shit writing if you want, but I liked it. They reinforace it like 3 times in the movie.
roflwaffles
Member
On a brighter note, I thought the opening Metropolis scene was incredible, sans the random horse.
You mean in Kansas? The Same way He didnt hear Lois when she got kidnaped at the Airport most probrably, quick enough for him not to take notice. And He is like more in tune with Lous because she is most likely to be in trouble, Clark wasnt expecting for anyone to know about his identity.
No matter what writing they have to put Superman against Batman is going to filled with lazy/bad writing. These two characters fighting goes against their character.
The only VS animated movie between the two is TDKR which this movie is based on. Stuff like World's Finest those two never actually fought each other.
You haven't caused another cataclysm in a while, let's get a cup of coffee and talk about thangs.
Bruce, the same guy who is breaking bones of bad guys after 30+ years of his parents murder?
He got obsesed to the point he couldnt notice how Lex Luthor was playing everyone.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
They could have done a straight adaptation of TDKR.
For all the Justice League stuff, they could have had a 15 minute post credit sequence.
For all the Justice League stuff, they could have had a 15 minute post credit sequence.
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